Just because you keep saying that doesn't make it true. We've already covered some of the domestic policy differences, but in foreign policy the two giants are support for Ukraine and NATO. Again, this isn't about which one is correct, but you can't say that both parties support the same policies.

There's also a poll today that puts Harris up +5 in ME-2. Trump won ME-2 in 2020 by 8 points. I don't believe Harris will win ME-2, but ME-2 is literally made up heavily of the type of people who profess to be Trump's base. It being close in any poll is a good sign for Harris.


FTC appointments, creation vs. (attempted) abolition of the CFPB, the Lily Leadbetter Act, etc....


Yeah, RM, you need to stop this cycle of 1) say something, 2) be shown it's false with examples, 3) wait a bit, 4) say the same thing again.

Both parties overwhelmingly support NATO and both parties have voted to send enormous sums of money to Ukraine.

But the guys leading the party say they will cut off Ukraine and exit NATO as well as refuse to defend Taiwan if attacked.

These aren't the same policies.

So we have a disagreement over the statute of limitations on equal pay complaints and an agency run by a McKinsey associate that doesn't do a whole lot but say "we're looking into it". I think the fact neither candidate has even brought up these issues tells you how little people give a shit about them and their differences.

As I said, "nearly identical". I'm sure there is some squabbling over what rube gets put on the FTC to have their ideas shot down by the courts, but there is broad agreement over most of our economic policy in this country.

Talk is cheap. Actions matter. Trump was President for 4 years and we know what he did.

If you truly believe that Trump and the Republicans are going to cut defense and end handouts to defense contractors, I don't know what to tell you. That would be a historic reversal of everything the party has stood for for the past few decades (and what they did when he was President).

It's just nice to feel like the Dems are finally playing offense, for seemingly the first time in 50 years.

I'm pretty sure the NATO leaders and Ukraine leadership disagree with you. NATO leadership have already dealt with Trump and Ukraine can read Trump's words just as well as anyone else.

No one said anything about cutting defense, I agree that won't happen. But defense monies will be reallocated from NATO and Ukraine to something else. Maybe build some more naval ships, maybe fund more Space Force etc. I'm actually okay if we let NATO fund their own defense, Trump was right that we've been taken as suckers re: 2% of GDP. And it's not as if NATO will materially come help us/Taiwan if the worst happens so I rather move NATO money to Asia.

I'd toss in North Korea and Philippines as 2 additional different tracks that Joe vs Trump have taken. Joe is negative towards China just as Trump was, but Joe cares more about Asia security than Trump does. NK will be NK, but Philippines (which is BTW a functioning democracy) is strategic for the US in the the region.

This is the heart of Trumpism and MAGA. Making fun of a 17 year old special needs kid who is proud of his father.

Talk about weird ...https://t.co/V0Ov4csFht

— Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) August 22, 2024

Love the responses. Wonder how she will respond, if at all.

Tweet is gone already. How brave.

Saw this quote. Definitely worth remembering for those of us who live in this thread:

"People who follow politics closely constantly impute to others their own level of political knowledge. In reality, if you follow politics closely, you're a massive outlier. It's hard for you to even begin to fathom the level of political indifference of the median American adult."

We have talked in here about how hard it is for more members of more traditional cults to break out of the cycle until something bad effects them personally, and it sure seems like the MAGA leaders are doing their best to make unforced, personal attacks against significant parts of their base.

I think that when you spend all of your time in the online MAGA world and you get all of your negative and positive feedback from them, it really does change you.

Like I suspect that Ann Coulter spends most of her time in places where "HA! Look at that special needs kid! What a stupid loser!" gets you lots of likes and kudos. And when she ventures into the real world, it's like a shock.

The real question is whether any of this is penetrating to the ultra-low-information voters who will decide our fate.

This tracks. That being said, these days feel unique, because it seems like there is a lot of folks with little political knowledge, but lots of political passion. Bearing that out to some degree, the 2020 presidential election had the highest percentage of turnout in the last 50 years.

She deleted it but man, she is a horrible human as are those defending her.

Ann, you’re a fucking monster. pic.twitter.com/8xJZZwj3PD

— Ben Wexler (@mrbenwexler) August 22, 2024

I don't know how reliable this news site is but they are reporting that Ukraine was able to hack into Russian State TV and show a video of what Putin has done to Ukraine and vice versa. Also reported that Putin had a heart attack on Sunday morning.

Whoever is in charge of scheduling at the DNC had better make damned sure that Kamala gets on stage at the designated time in prime time tonight. If they start running behind schedule *again*, then yank some of the “B” list politicians and/or entertainers. You sure as hell don’t want her speaking at close to midnight EDT like Walz did last night.

Yeah, she needs to be on 10 sharp

In the age of 24 hour news cycles and 30 second clips, does that even matter anymore?

I didn't, and haven't, seen 1 second of either convention, but the fact that the speakers went on later than a west coast NBA game absolutely would not stop me from watching the whole thing, or the parts someone culled that were the best/most important, at my leisure.

I know TV cares about ratings, but this isn't the Grammy's. There's a different purpose for the people putting on the "show" and I don't think they much care how or when someone sees it, as long as they do. If you want to see it, you can.

Mike Lindell shaved his mustache and is going around "incognito" wearing sunglasses and arguing with people at the DNC.

Everybody is trying to be a right-wing Jordan Klepper.

From what I saw he immediately made a beeline towards a 12-year old Black kid with a microphone, attempted to bully him & failed spectacularly.

Supposedly there's a secret surprise guest. I wonder if it's Beyonce or Taylor.

either one will break the GOPs brain. Especially Taylor.

Can you imagine Kamala coming out to her singing Shake it Off? Will break the internet.

Oh man, you have a link to that?

Eh, pretty much Ann Coulter’s entire brand is “person who says shocking, heartless, and mean things.” I mean, she told Vivek to his face that she’d never vote for him because he’s Indian. My guess is that she saw the picture and thought “yeah, everyone says leave the kids out of it, so taking a shot at Walz’s kid is TOTALLY on brand for me!” And I’m further guessing she didn’t bother to gather enough basic info to have a clue he has special needs. Still makes her horrid and I’ll be surprised if she apologizes—would be bad for her brand—but I do think she’s smart enough to know that’s a bridge too far even for many of the monsters who otherwise love her.

Raygun!

I think you underestimate the amount of people who still watch live tv and get their into from the 10:00 news. Especially older folks who Kamala needs.

Mustache-Less Mike Lindell Is Roaming the DNC Arguing With Dems

I didn't see it but was it as bad as I heard it was?

Dixie Chicks are supposed to make an appearance

Most likely

All of this. The media whined that Trump went too long in his speech, and now they’re whining that the Dems are going too long. Meanwhile I don’t watch a single minute of either one live, and have been able to see everything I want to see, sans commercials, with as much or as little contextual commentary from either side of the aisle as I want, exactly when I want to, in snippets as long or as short as I want. I’ve spoken about the importance of swaying a few hundred voters here or there, but come on, in this day, if someone’s tired from a long day at work, they’re just gonna say, “eh, I’ll just catch her on YouTube in the morning” and go to bed.

I saw people questioning why he was debating a 12 year old and someone replied "skill based matchmaking" and I died.

They keep Biden's hours. They aren't up past 11 to watch. At best, they try and fall asleep 5 minutes in.

NATO spending was up considerably under Trump. He encouraged other countries to spend even more. And he sold tons of weapons to NATO allies. Like I said, actions speak louder than words.

And yes, defense money will be re-allocated just like it always is. Biden got us out of Afghanistan but shifted that money toward Ukraine and Israel. Who gets it isn't a big concern to either party, it's that welfare for the defense industry continues.

And calling the Philippines a democracy is quite a stretch. I know NGOs have to do it to keep their funding but you don't have to play that game unless you are being compensated too.

Older folks tend to be…

1. More likely to vote. They ain’t staying home because Kamala stood up at 11:15 rather than 10:00.
2. Ummm…kinda intractable. I’m having a hard time imagining that the undecided/may-or-may-not-vote group is loaded with 75-year-olds.
3. Not all luddites. My 72yo sister is a freaking YouTube addict. “Wait…this means I don’t have to pay for DVR any more???” :D

Please post a non-Tiktok or Twitter source discussing why Philippines is not a democracy? Always best for discussions instead of just personal (and likely misguided) opinions.

I posted a wiki (?) article a while back refuting your claim.

I suspect they'll be sure to make sure she's on in primetime. With Joe, I felt like it was intentional to have him go on so late. Wildly unpopular politician who is dealing with dementia. A gaffe at midnight is not as bad as a gaffe at 10pm when everyone is watching.

And I do think time does matter (although a little overblown). The ratings are huge in primetime for these conventions and it can be the difference in a few million viewers depending on when the speech is made. Plus with Kamala, she's not as well known to the country so I think it's important that as many people as possible see her speak.

I presume any increase in spending was because Trump told them to pay their "fair share" e.g. target 2% of GDP. If not, provide a source

So he sold a ton of weapons to NATO allies, much better than him not doing it and continuing to subsidize their collective defense with US troops in Europe especially (then) during peace time.

You can't be a democracy if you have no free press and opposition politicians are jailed, tortured, and/or killed.

Just do a cursory Google search on red-tagging in the Philippines and you can find all the sources you need although I doubt that matters much to you.

Again, post your source. Otherwise, I'll just chalk this up to your tiktok, twitter, JDAM-can-tell-by-acoustics, its-a-NINJA-chopper opinion.

I understand that you aren't particularly well read, but Google is not difficult.

Red-tagging in the Philippines - Wikipedia

Trump Hectors NATO But Boosts Both Money And Troops : NPR



And yes, other countries paid more after he pushed for it.

https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2...020-104-en.pdf

For a guy who hates NATO and wants to end it, it's an odd strategy to give it more money and push other countries to contribute even more money.

Neither is reading the entire article. Nowhere does it refute that Philippines is a democracy. Prove me wrong, provide a quote from your link.

And since we like quoting wiki as it's a good start for misunderstandings ...

Politics of the Philippines - Wikipedia

Doesn't really help the "weird" label

This is amazing if it isn't a photoshop

Tim Walz coming for Ann Coulter.

�� Don't mess with Gus. pic.twitter.com/PNUDuTHuBK

— AskAubry �� (@ask_aubry) August 22, 2024

If GWB endorses Kamala on the "Trump's a unique threat to America" theory, do we think that moves the needle at all?

wow nice one Walz

I don't think so.

There is no arbiter on what is and isn't a democracy. If you believe that jailing, torturing, and killing political opponents makes you a democracy, so be it. If you believe that no free press makes a country a democracy, great. There's really no convincing you otherwise and by that definition, countries like Russia would qualify.

I just don't agree that you can be a democracy with that structure. Not that being a democracy matters to the United States anyway.

Fair enough. Thanks for the link, always good to have a source. Looks like he did increase overall funding for western European defense.

Yup

Access Denied

I don't believe he wants to end NATO. I believe he wanted to get the US out of NATO or at least greatly reduce the US commitments (this part I agree with).

It's not an odd strategy. It's actually smart to have non-US NATO countries spend and contribute more money. And even smarter for them to buy US weapons.

Hard to say given that most or all of the "regular Republicans" have been kicked out of the party

I mean, there's not really any libel on message boards, but you keep claiming this as if this is proven fact and it seems...well, pretty distasteful.

They really seem to be struggling with ways to attack Walz. So I guess the attack yesterday was a story about how he was playing too much Sega Dreamcast and his wife told him to cut back. Going to go out on a limb and guess that there are a lot of voters who find that story relatable.





Anything goes in politics? Sure.

I have spent way too much of the last twenty years around autistic kids and am now a big softy regarding them? Absolutely.

Beyond that, what is the political benefit of making fun of Walz's 17 year old autistic son? I thought kids were off limits in general though that custom has been chipped away at with GWB's daughters and then the Obama girls. I honestly don't remember Barron getting any abuse outside of how much taller he was then everyone else in a family photo but I could be wrong.

Is the benefit the outpouring of support that someone like Coulter gets when people like me say it is a negative thing and being too sensitive?

I agree there are different definitions, forms of democracy and different "types". Just because it does not meet your Swedish values does not make it less of one, faults and all.

Unlike you, I can provide a preponderance of evidence/articles from wiki, state department etc. that states that Philippines is a democracy, however strained and work in progress it.

Yup, it figures. Your personal opinion not backed up by any legit sources/articles.

Yeah, let us know how well its going in Sweden.

Could you just imagine?

pic.twitter.com/lBHext8f41

— Will (@WillEvans215) August 22, 2024

It would be great but just don't see it.

I'm rooting for Taylor Swift.

The one I saw today was that he really shouldn't get credit for coaching that state championship team because we was a defensive coordinator and not the head coach. Yeah, defense is not important at all in football.

I'm sure the United States says nice things about the Philippines. Just like they say nice stuff about Saudi Arabia, Israel, Pakistan, UAE, etc. Our State Department has a long history of whitewashing brutal tyrants and war criminals as long as they are allies.

Like I said, with your definition, Russia is a democracy too.

I don't either. Liz Chaney maybe? Even then, you letting someone who is pretty vile in many of her political beliefs have a platform. Taylor would be the dream. I guess Beyonce would be big as well. I think Taylor and maybe Travis beside her would probably cause some heads to explode.

If the Dems do have Taylor, should they save her for later? Seems like she'd command a few news cycles on her own instead of adding to the (often temporary) convention bump.

What a stretch. Shows your ignorance trying to compare Philippines with Russia.

I can quote plenty of legit sources/articles that says Russia is not a democracy. Unfortunately, you can't do the same for your opinion of Philippines. Go ahead, still waiting for your non-tiktok, non-twitter sources.

I think it's simple - they are grasping at straws to counter the "weird" thing. And failing miserably. The political benefit is to keep their base engaged and entertained. I don't think they really think about or care how something like this plays to others. To the extent they rope in some "normal but GOP through and through" people into it as part of a "them vs us" thing, then great.

I don't know. I think you spike the ball. She can do rally's and stuff later even after she announces something tonight. They need to do anything to run up the score right now, so when that inevitable deflation comes they have as big a lead as possible. That said, no. I don't believe it will be Taylor.

I don't think Dubya would be a good move at the convention. If he wants to participate, in any meaningful way, he can give traditional Republicans permission to vote Dem (or not vote for president). I wouldn't be offended if he was at the convention, but bringing him or Dick Cheney out would probably offend as many folks as it would help. It is hard to envision either of them speaking and not getting at least some 'boos,' which would unnecessarily change the tone of what has largely been a positive (I'm already tired of hearing about "joy") convention.

I think Liz Cheney or Mitt Romney would be the biggest acceptable surprise "gets" in politics. Maybe Condeleeza Rice, as she has seemed to stay pretty well regarded all around. Chris Christie would be interesting. Arnold would be strong, but I don't think he'd be much of a surprise and would probably just be an announced speaker.

Taylor Swift or Beyonce would be big. I think Swift would actually be substantially bigger, given her connection to younger voters.

I think an unusual wildcard would be Michael Jordan. He's obviously best known from his time in Chicago, is a "manly man," and still has a lot of pull.

Someone like Mark Cuban wouldn't be a big surprise either, but I could see that.

Good point.

Assuming she'll continue to actively campaign for Harris, I'd say do it tonight.

I can see her helping the Dems but bet she'll lose some fans and $ over it.

Getting an endorsement is another story, but I think letting a Republican war criminal (or a daughter of one) have a platform at the DNC would be a stumble. Do Democratic voters really want to listen to an extended speech by GWB or Liz Cheney?

Given how far out of politics Dubya has stayed, it would be a strange, uncharacteristic move for him to suddenly agree to participate at a convention.

No, and that's why it is almost certainly not them. It is entertaining to think about (imagine Dick Cheney ambling out!), but it would offend more people in the room than engage. If I had money on it, it would be Beyonce. Maybe a little cover on it being someone not very exciting at all.

The other big Republican name floated is Romney. That is possibly less offensive, but still unlikely.

Sidebar discussion: What does the next GOP convention even look like?

It is hard to see Dubya ever reappearing at the same event as Trump and with the way his father and brother have been spoken about over the past 8 years, I wouldn't be surprised if he is done-done with politics.

It seems hard to believe Trump would participate or be invited back if he loses this time. If he wins, it seems equally unlikely that he would be interested unless he or one of his kids are running. Can you see him campaigning for JD Vance in 2028 if they win? I can't.

McCain is dead. Dole is dead. Cheney is old. McConnell is old. Bush and Trump are the only living GOP presidents still living.

It will be interesting to see if Desantis, Vance, or Haley emerge if Trump wins.

I can see folks like Pence, Romney, Liz Cheney, and Paul Ryan sort of picking up the pieces in 2028 if Trump loses.

Maybe Youngkin is a rising star, but he will have been out of office for three with the off year election and single term rules in VA. He could run for senate against Mark Warner in 2026, but then would risk both losing to pretty popular senior senator and, if he does win, then needing to turn right around and start running for president. His timing just seems unfortunate.

It's just hard for me to picture what 3-4 nights of programming from them would look like, unless one of the Trump kids are running.

Make this happen...

You know who it is…. pic.twitter.com/71sWrmYQS2

— The Natural (@OrangeBeaverYNK) August 22, 2024

Colin Powell spoke at the DNC in 2008, right? Or am I thinking of something else?

Supreme Court justices?

And his standing on Trump wouldn't be any kind of worthwhile surprise.

He endorsed Obama in October 2008, but he actually spoke at the DNC in 2020.

everyone is like "TAYLOR SWIFT?"

But it's going to be something way worse than that. It will be like three former cast members of the West Wing reading the Bill of Rights or something. https://t.co/x2U6S0vyxP

— Ben Dreyfuss (@bendreyfuss) August 22, 2024

The next RNC is all Trump until he dies. He will refile for running again on 1/21/25 if he loses. He will keep running until people stop grifting, er giving him money.

Having a vulture capitalist responsible for tens of millions of job losses speak at your convention that is aimed at working class voters seems like a huge mistake. Same for GWB and Cheney when a considerable portion of your party is upset with actions in the Middle East (plus Cheney would have made more sense yesterday when they focused on January 6th).

I'm guessing a celebrity. Taylor Swift would be massive and an enormous viral event that would likely draw millions more to her speech. I understand saving her for later, but this is going to be one of the first big speeches most of America has heard from Kamala. Having Taylor be the lead-in would be enormous. With that said, she's really careful with her career and I'd be surprised if she did it.

At the end of the day, it's still the Democrats. Martin Sheen pretending the be President Bartlett? Zelensky on a video call? Beyonce? I don't know.


Edit: Michael Jordan would be pretty big if they pulled that off.

I think that is very, very unlikely to happen. His father made it public that he was voting for Hillary in 2016, but Dubya doesn't strike me as a guy who is going to do anything, other than say he's not endorsing anyone in this election.

Being told there is a “DNC Surprise” guest that will blow people away this evening.

— .. (@OperDJT) August 22, 2024

Monica Lewinsky?

Is there anyone with any real connection to the party saying there will be a huge surprise? Seems like just a handful of Twitter accounts cosplaying as insiders.

Exactly. The closest he's come is a few generic statements that clearly seem to be anti-Trump/pro-rule of law, etc., but I don't believe he's spoken out in any truly political way.

Like the difference between saying you want homelessness to end versus supporting a particular policy position on the issue.

Yeah, I'm guessing if there is something it's probably something like Beyonce singing "Freedom" live. Which is cool and all, but I don't know what it changes. (Though I don't really know what any of this changes.)

My guess is Simone Biles.

I agree with this unfortunately.

I don’t see why Taylor, Swift or Beyoncé showing up would blow people away. Wouldn’t we expect them to support Harris?

George Bush, Mitt Romney, and Dick Cheney showing up to support Harris would blow me away

THAT'S WHY IT'S GONNA BE SOOOOO SHOCKING!!1


Seriously, Pence seems more likely...and FAR more likely to have an impact...than Dubya.


And in case no one has noticed, that "blow people away" tweet came from a MAGA troll account. If we start hearing from a reputable source that there's a "blow people away" surprise guest, I'd put my money on Pence probably above anyone else...but so far this is just the interwebz being the interwebz.

I don’t think Pence has much of a base?

It may blow some people away just because it’s Pence … but doubt it’ll change many votes.

It's a show. Nothing else. It's like getting a second Super Bowl halftime performance.

There is definitely a block of time staked out on the schedule that only a handful of people know what it is for. There is some type of surprise setup.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

I'd seen it here, FWIW:

I’ve been sworn to secrecy, but you don’t want to miss the DNC tonight.

If you thought the Oprah surprise was big, just wait.

— Angry Staffer 🌻 (@Angry_Staffer) August 22, 2024

Though I don't know how much inside info Angry Staffer has.

I'd thought of Pence, but I really don't think he'd do it.

It also trolls Trump since he lives and dies on TV ratings and those celebs would make him throw a temper tantrum.

Beyonce or Swift seem most likely but how about John Kelly?

It’s Melania!



;)

Pence is a loser who has already said he wouldn't vote for Biden or Harris. He's more likely to sit in a corner watching Trump fuck his wife than actually stand up for himself and show up at the convention.

Regardless, why would Democrats want him at their convention? They're running on abortion rights and he's about as far right as you can get on that issue.

Please be JFK, Jr tonight.

Yeah, the goal here is to get your party members excited and also get people to tune in. I don't know what kind of draw Beyonce is, but if it gets people to tune in and they end up listening to Kamala afterwards, that seems like a win for the Dems.