If I go tonight ask yourself if you have been through this with hoops before.

It's going to be really interesting to see who they kill tonight

Kudos to the wolves for leaving around talkative players, nothing worse then when it gets down to the end and we gey 3 posts every 4 hours

No, I don't have any evidence that you're a wolf. I'm seriously asking if you have any reason to doubt CR/Hoops other than standard werewolf doubt, because I would like to know if you do.

:popcorn:


Kill wolves kill
One less villager to be
Lie wolves lie
Make them too confused to see

Make em' turn, on each other
And another villager we'll smother

Kill wolves kill
One less villager to be

W-O-L-V-E-S
Wolves!!!!

No, I have no reason other than my belief that Hoops is the most devious WW player I have ever played with.

hear hear!

I guess I could add that I know I'm not a wolf and I find it unlikely that you have nailed down every wolf (Lathum, PF, and Poli) at this point. I think it is more likely that Hoops + CR decided to vouch for each other after they saw Sal and Jack vouche for each other. That is something a smart wolf would do, especially when one of those two(hoops) had votes on him at that time.

where are ya Danny?!

hmm, interesting kill choice

I think Hoops gets my vote today.

I just dont trust him

OK, so there is no way I trust Hoops or CR now. With the BG out of the way there is zero reason not to kill one of them. At best they are lovers/ brothers and at worst you reduce their circle of trust.

I will be at the Science Center today. Sometimes I have net access there, sometimes I don't. I can't believe I'm alive this morning. I am a little surprised that I am after the way I answered hoops yesterday.

This drew a chuckle because I view you in the same light. And it is 100% meant as a compliment.

OK, so would the remaining players please indicate why you did not see any reason to vote for Lathum yesterday? I'm not saying you have to vote for him today, but I want to see the arguments for why you think that he is a villager.

Saldana, did Jackal have the role that you thought he would have?

There are a few assumptions in here that I do not know are true. I don't know if they are wrong either, but such is life with limited info.
1.) One of the above is a wolf rather than all three - I'm inclined to agree with you. I highly doubt all three are wolves.
2.) Lathum is definitely not a wolf with me/Chief since me/Chief are not wolves. But I would say that no matter what side I'm on, I guess.
3.) The criticize does bring voting to 3/3, but not the ratio to 3/3. We have no idea what happens in a tie.
4.) The above only works if there are in fact three remaining wolves rather than 2. I'm operating off this same assumption because it is safer to plan for 3 and have 2 than the reverse. But I have no idea which is in fact the truth.

Yep, however this does go down we have a nice group of players who will almost certainly put in their work in the thread today.

Real quick before I go, I think/thought that the wolves wouldn't silence one of their own at this point. Seems a little risky.

You know I wouldn't use meta-game reasons if they weren't true, right Lathum?

I have no computer at home right now while mine is in the shop. I was checking the deadline activity from my phone - started at like 7:50 unfortunately, it looked like it was pretty well established and as I started to consider changing my vote the janky-ass jave-based browser on my phone locked-up and i had to restart. at that point I knew it was too late to change.

it's the truth. not sure i expect anyone to believe it, but if you lynch me you'll just be losing a villager without the ability to do anything beneficial for the village anymore. I'd rather go after wolves at this point then lynch me out of retribution though.

I'm inclined to keep my vote right where it was yesterday

VOTE HOOPSGUY

DT, can you explain why you are voting for me over Lathum? I don't think you did yesterday, but if you did feel free to just link it if nothing has changed.

I do not know if Lathum is a wolf or not, but the fact that the idea got so very little traction yesterday while people seemed to make moves towards Abe and Jackal (both of whom I outlined defenses for, btw) makes me a bit more confident that I had a good vote yesterday but didn't do a good enough job of selling it.

Part of it has to do with Lathum's argument about why kill PF over you or CR if you two are linked and are good.

Part of it has to do with a "vibe" I'm getting off your posts similar to the last game I played when you were a wolf.

Although to be honest, the survival of Lathum this deep into the game, and the fact that he has been persistantly criticized and thus hasn't had to defend any votes, does give me pause and make me think about voting for him.

I want to see how this thing develops.

Silencing own of their own tomorrow would be ballsy. I didn't think it was way out of bounds yesterday, for what it is worth.

errr sorry - correction - "why kill jackal over you or CR" not PF

i'm open to being persuaded to change my mind hoops - but my vote will be on one of you two.

i also have an afternoon that is conference calls from 1-4pm straight, and then a meeting we're leaving for at like 4, so I don't anticipate having a huge amount of time to go over and over things unfortunately.

They killed Jackal, not PF.

DT (I'll actually call you that instead of MT today because I'm not looking to antagonize you in the middle of a really meaningful decision), I think that you are a villager. I'm not sure, but if push comes to shove today I am guessing you are a good guy.

If the wolves feel like they can get me or Chief in the lynch today, then there was no need to kill us last night. If they don't, then they can take one of us out tonight and hope that we are lovers (I would not say one way or the other on this because that would potentially damage the integrity of the game). The result is the same in the long term for them because they still have the numbers at 4-3 if we are not lovers or 3-3 and over if we are.

The conclusion there is that it didn't make a difference for them today, other than the fact that they knew going into today that Chief and I are really unlikely to vote for one another, barring some kind of major revelation last night. I didn't have one and I hope Chief did not either.

So they made their voting a little tougher today in that Chief and I would likely be a little harder than the norm to vote off during the day. But why not try and if it doesn't work out they get their hands dirty on N7 instead of N6? It is not like Chief or I have particularly good voting records. It is not as if we have trust outside of each other, for all intents and purposes.

I'm very curious to hear if Autumn is still trusting Saldana.

Saldana was here earlier when I asked the question this morning about Jackal's death and his role. I did not get a response.

Well thanks for calling me DT instead of MT (although it doesn't really bother me tbh).

I am a villager.

I can see your point on some level - it does make sense to try to have us villagers pick one of you off instead of them, and waste time on them. It's something to think on.

:D
asking danny if i can answer.

You have to ask Danny if you can answer this question?

i dont know if i want to go with my vote from yesterday(DT), or back to hoops.

i am pretty sure i wont go to lathum without something compelling happening...i said yesterday and still think that criticizing himself with only 10 votes in play is riskier than i think he would play.

i am still afraid they are both wolves though.

Bah. I'll discuss wtf I was up to after the game is over. Good luck villagers.

For those who are voting me instead of Chief Rum - why me as the first to go instead of him? I'm trying to understand the logic. Is it inherently more fun to vote for me?

Don't get me wrong - I'm pretty darn sure you are voting a villager with either me or Chief. But every villager knows with 100% certainty that they are a villager. It is rare to be able to say the same about any other villager, no matter how strong your reasons are for believing in them.

Saldana, what is the argument for me as a wolf versus DT as a wolf?

Is the "Hoops" argument something more than "He is still alive, he is voting for Lathum who I do not believe is a wolf"? If so, help me understand it so I can try to talk through it with the people who are villagers (maybe you?) and help us collectively make a good decision today.

Lathum, since you are voting for me can you summarize the argument?

Hoops, you have totally and incorrectly honed in on me today, other then me who else do you think is a wolf?

I only ask because if I am the lynch candidate today we will be starting from square one tomorrow, although if I am the lynch candidate today it will certainly be you tomorrow with my vote leading the charge.

Also, if I am a wolf I kill you last night because

1. I may get a 2-1
2. I can still get DT or PF lynched based on voting, etc...

1. You have a questionable voting record
2. All of a sudden you and CR vouch for each other, yet you are both alive
3. You are coming at me despite others having far bigger warts and I know I am good
4. You are playing the helpful villager role I've seen you play as a wolf in the past

The only other person I would probably vote today is PF.

He hammered the nail in Abe's coffin, has been really UTR and has had other questionable votes.

Lathum, if you are not a wolf then I think you get a wolf in the Saldana/DT pairing. I tend to think that is true even if you are a wolf and there are three wolves remaining. I would probably pick Saldana as the wolf out of those two.

I've said all game long that I think Autumn and Dubb are good guys. I think everyone has assumptions at this point in the game and those are mine, beyond Chief Rum.

So that leaves a pretty shallow group for who I'm willing to consider voting for today.
1. Lathum
2. Saldana
3. PackerFanatic (trending downward because he is still alive, but votes are pretty good)
4. DaddyTorgo (feels like a malleable villager that wolves would leave alive, or a patsie if they need one based on voting record)
5. Poli - exemplary voting record up to yesterday

I do still believe Saldana is a villager. I am almost certain of it. I am also almost certain of CR and Hoops. I'm hoping to clear up the rest of y'all today.

So why is Saldana clear in your mind, relative to PF?

This was actually perfect timing, thanks wolves, I'm going away for the weekend this afternoon. :)

The way he came at me is unlike him as a wolf and his late vote on Telle the other day.

that reminds me.

I am leaving for Maine on the red eye tomorrow night and won't be back until Tuesday afternoon.

why such certainty about these 3?

Hoops, do you have each days voting results on a spreadsheet where you can easily post them. I'm going to either be in classes today or working on papers so I have limited time to search.

You say PF's voting record is pretty good, I remember otherwise.

Also, today is the second day DT has followed me with a quick second vote onto someone.

I'm not allowing Saldana to answer this. I would like questions/revealing/fake revealing type stuff about roles to be at a minimum over the last few days.

1. I think a lot of people have bad voting records, especially after yesterday. Heck, I tend to think that anyone who has put a vote on me at any point in the game (even if it came off later) has a bad record because they could be a wolf probing to see if they can get me lynched. However, I understand that this is a relative term and I'm guilty as charged.

But I think my "suspicion" record is actually at least as bad because I thought that Telle was good and ended up supporting her (relative to other candidates) quite a bit. That said, I would have made sure to have a good vote on Day 5 when she went down based on what I assume the wolves knew about the seer.

2. Well, I only put the vouch out yesterday because I was concerned about where the early voting was headed. We both picked up a couple of votes and I was certain that there were a number of better options for the village. Sadly, Abe was not one of them. But the village at least had a chance yesterday to get a good vote because we came forward. That information is sitll valuable today.

Is it convenient? Well, only in the respect that it kept two villagers alive yesterday during the day. I can't speak with any certainty about the actions of the wolves at night other than to suggest that they have a certain amount of moxie to not take a shot at one of us and hope that they get two dead villagers as a result.

3. Don't overlook the quality of your own warts. Seriously, I think I had a fair amount of patience not voting for you while giving you time to demonstrate some role that was beneficial to the village. Suggestions of a role without some kind of demonstration - through votes, moderator writeups, or actionable information from you - don't hold much water to me on Day 7.

But I'm more than willing to discuss candidates that you think have bigger warts.

4. I also play helpful villager when I'm a villager. So that is kind of a tough one for me to argue one way or the other.

Uh oh, if you run across me, don't say anything about the game.

The day that the wolves got Telle, where they absolutely positively did not want the seer to come out and reveal because they were going to night kill him?

Or another vote on Telle (not D5)?

Do you want final votes or vote/unvotes?

Final votes - Autumn already posted through D5 but I'm happy to update it.

Vote/unvotes - I've listed them in the thread for each day based on notepad files I have. I don't know a more efficient way to list them but I'm willing to take suggestions.

Wow, I thought asking him for his perceptions on the role of another player was pretty far inbounds.

I can't really answer that. But I am very certain.

You, I'm on the fence about. I won't be voting you today though, I'm leaning towards you telling the truth and I think time will tell.

That leaves me PF, Poli, Dubb93 and DaddyT to pick from. Those will be my choices today.

I understand, but in general I want to steer discussions away from that.

I was also the only person voting for that person yesterday so i don't really see it as a stretch.

considering the way the voting went down yesterday I'm not sure you want to hang your hat on that one.

I don't want to sidetrack us but this removes a pretty fundamental part of the game. Speculating on someone's role then using that speculation to determine your vote is half the game. Without it what are we really supposed to go by, voting history only?

I mean, why give everyone a role if you can't roleplay with it and utilize it strategicaly? Makes no sense.

can you direct me to where Autumn posted them.

I understand, but I've handicapped all players here, wolves and villagers a like regarding this. The point of the roles were to give people more information/abilities, but not having reveals as a basis of who to vote for. I approved a post of Jackal's that I should not have that basically was a full reveal, so I decided to tighten up on this.

Autumn's post on final votes, do not include D6.

Vouches at this point:
Autumn - Saldana, Hoops, Chief Rum
Hoops - Chief Rum
Chief Rum - Hoops

Just so we are clear - there are two people who have expressed a high degree of certainty that I am not a wolf but I'm the only person with votes right now?

Is the assumption now that Autumn must also be a wolf along with me and Chief? I'm wondering how I have votes and no one else does right now.

Hoops, my vote on you is in anticipation of you voting me, I would be willing to listen to other potential candidates for today.

Hoops, I'm likely not going to vote Lathum today. Who on my target list would you be wiling to vote?

Lathum, I still believe that you are the best vote for a wolf today. However, if Autumn has access to info that suggests you are not a good vote (along with Saldana) then I would turn to either DT or PF next.

I also have previously stated (I think? Can verify later) that I think one of DT/Saldana is good and one is a wolf. So it would probably go over to DT next.

Heck, I'll put that out now and see what happens.

VOTE DADDYTORGO

I still think that if DT is a wolf he has made some pretty curious plays. But I'm going to go check something on D1 right now ...

unvote Hoops


I am leaning towards DT, he has had some questionable late voting moves.

That was DT's post, about 55 minutes after the deadline. Nothing much to see there one way or another.

How about instead voting for who you think is most likely a wolf?

Not really the best point of the game to do a "pre-emptive" tit for tat vote.

DT does not have any posts in the three hours prior to the deadline. I did not go back any further than that. So he may have missed a good chunk of Day 1 entirely, rather than just not voted.

Earlier I had maintained that the wolves would talk with each other and not let one of their members miss a day where one of their members (EF) was on the line and another one (Telle) was creeping up the standings late. But maybe he just was not at his machine?

OK, the other pro-DT point I had was back on Day 4 (I think) where DT had put a vote on Telle vs Lerri that cut the margin to 6-3. It was right after Autumn had made it 6-2. I suggested that DT would not want to be part of potentially creating a run on Telle that day. It was not like D5 where they had identified the seer. The wolves would have thought Lerri was a villager.

So the only real explanation for DT putting his vote in here was that he thought it was safe to bury a vote on a wolf then, only to see a run emerge behind him? He was around at the deadline and did (along with Dubb) switch the votes when Lerri made a move to tie it up with Telle one minute before deadline.

Oh, good, you are reconsidering. Sorry Lathum, shoulda read down to the bottom.

how about not telling me who I should vote for.

And trust me, I still have my suspicions about you and Hoops.

oops,I shoulda read down to the bottom

Autumn, you said that you were on the fence with Lathum and that you believe Saldana is a villager. You have stated that you are not voting for either of them today.

The very suspicious part of me is concerned that you are indicating that you are not going to be voting for the two people I had at the top of my "wolf" list earlier this morning. This would be a pretty clever way of you to go about directing us in the wrong direction with the vote today and hope * that you are in position to win the game tonight/tomorrow with a double kill.

Staying within the bounds of what is allowed and not allowed in the thread, can you distinguish why you have different levels of trust for Lathum and Saldana right now?




* - note that I have not made any mention about the potential effectiveness, or lack thereof, associated with this hypothetical wolf plan. I would not want to suggest any further speculation on my role beyond what has been suggested by others in the thread. I hope that this is in keeping with the moderator intent :p

i don't want to vote for myself because i know i'm a villager, albeit one who can now no longer provide any useful info on anybody.

i'd rather vote lathum than saldana, just b/c i don't think lathum+hoops are on the same side. but i suppose saldana + pf + lathum/hoops could be the trio of wolves left...

DT - "no longer provide useful info on anybody"?

Can you explain the past tense here?

i'm not sure that i can without talking too much about my role and having Danny crackdown on me. Basically means what it says though - i have info leading me to have favorable/unfavorable views of people in the game. unfortunately it is no longer useful info.

because they are dead?

I know Danny wants us to stay away from role talk. I think I can say that I have not yet seen all of the evidence in thread that I would like to supporting Lathum's claims of a role. There is some lingering doubt that he might be faking one. I don't feel that way about Saldana, and I think Jackal's death should confirm that for others.

I'm still willing to consider DT today, but I'm more interested in pursuing PackerFan and Dubb. I feel they're top suspects out of the ones I have left. Since you have shown willingness to possibly go after PF, Hoops, and i think others have, I will try him.

VOTE PACKERFANATIC

If Dubb has played as a wolf he has made really, really daring votes at times that were particularly damaging to the wolves. And additionally put in votes that were not necessarily favorable to the wolves.

D1 - put EF up 4-2
D2 - another EF vote in a tight race with PB
D4 - put a vote on Telle tying her up at 5-5

Those are the ones off the top of my head. I believe he also had unvote opportunities that he did not take. But I would have to go back through my day-by-day notes to validate my recollections on the "non-votes".

That is why I'm more or less willing to accept that he is not a wolf and give him all the credit he is due if he pulled the wool over my eyes.

i honestly have no idea where to go today..i really want to see either hoops or lathum lynched just because it will put an end to the question...i also want DT to go down because of his deadline activities for the past 2 days in a row.

right now i am leaning towards hoops for a combination of voting record and gut.

*nods*

that's somewhat convenient.

only as convenient as your role not having to come into play yet. I believe you're both in the same pot.

I'm not sure why people are seeing the Lathum/Hoops back and forth as condemning one or the other. They seem clearly two players suspicious of each other, and both vocal ones. Why couldn't it be villager/villager? Not that htere couldn't be a wolf there, but I don't buy this reasoning of "having" to go there to settle a question.

I agree, seems like a very wolfy way to get a solid player lynched.

I would agree with this, except DT is claiming he is no longer of use to us while my ability has yet to manifest itself.

DT, was your ability a one time thing?

dola- he may not be able to answer that which makes me crazy.

But you've admitted that yours is out of your control to manifest. Which I can understand, but leaves the rest of us in the spot of having to believe both or either or neither of you.

Besides me being UTR (which I am sure you will say), what is the case against me? My vote yesterday was off, but it didn't really seem like anyone knew what was up yesterday.

no

i have no banannas

I have some theories about DT and role but I guess I have to keep it to myself

till after the game yep - but i will say you're probably right lathum

*breakin the rules...breakin the rules*

HI CHIEF RUM!!! Rare midday visit from you!!!