Slowly coming around to the thinking that this team was not who I thought it was, and they probably had a way low BAIBP which lead to unnatural ERA+

Basically LeBron cannot mask the fact that we lack legit talent and need offensive upgrades at the PF and SG spots. The Bench would be far better with Varejao and West as key contributors.

It's hard to think of a better example of why I don't follow the NBA beyond idle curiosity than a Lakers-Magic final.

A team led by an adultering possible rapist against a team led by a pot-smoking thug who wouldn't stand up for the national anthem "because he's black".

Somehow I'm pretty sure this illustrates why & how I'm not connecting to the NBA.

lol.

I wanted the Celts to win. Failing that I was rooting for Lebron. Failing that, I really don't give a shit.

Josh Howard does not play for the Orlando Magic.

Googled "orlando magic stand national anthem" and got nothing. Help please.

methinx Jon got his Howard's mixed-up

Hi Rip van Jon. Welcome to 2009. Feel free to do a Google search of the years 2005-2008 to find out what's been going on.

BTW, I HIGHLY recommend you start with a search on the name JOSH Howard.

Ciao.

Eh, I'm sure they all look the same anyway.

BTW, what's that line about better to be quiet and thought a fool, rather than to speak and remove all doubt? Seems fitting.

Given Dwight Howard's GA backgroun.d and all that he represents, it would be much better to for Jon to google Dwight Howard. He might actually be proud of him. Or maybe not

They all look alike anyways... sounding alike is only natural too! ;)

Fixed that for ya :P

You know, I'm down with ripping Jon for the Howard mixup, but, really (and maybe I'm just being too sensitive), but I think we should lay off on the jokes that basically label Jon as a racist.

IMO of Jon over the years, really, when it comes to Jon disliking this or that, he's really pretty equal opportunity. He'll hate on anyone, white or black or mauve.

Are there racists here at FOFC? Probably. Cuts both ways. Is Jon certainly a conservative, white male from the Deep South. Absolutely. Has Jon said assheaded things on more than one occasion. Without question.

But I don't recall saying anything that I could specifically say was clearly racist. Of a conservative nature? Sure. Racist? I might have missed it.

So (assuming I didn't miss it), I think we should stick with ripping Jon on his lack of NBA awareness and leave out the race jokes.

Thanks for policing us, Chief.

Lord knows what we'd get into without ya.

FWIW I agree.

Police, my ass. ;)

I got no powers but the written word, and I am as much of a posting dumbass as anyone. You guys do what you will. I just figured maybe we're pushing the line abit there, and thought someone should say something.

Rather than go post by post on what I realized a little while ago elsewhere (and came here to correct as well) I'll just confirm your observation.

What can I tell you, as I said I follow the league idly at most. In this instance, the phrase "can't tell one from another" isn't a racial thing, it's a league thing. Odds are you could probably come up with 10 players from roster spots 10-14 across the league that I'd misidentify by race.

But on that basis whatever beatings I take for this one I fully deserve, that's just the flat truth.

no beatings here. i agree. except for the guys with obvious names

Ok, everyone's jumping on Jon for getting the wrong guy on the Magic, but nobody is going mention the fact that he basically called Pau Gasol a rapist? I know he looks shady, but let's at least get the facts straight.

If we can't label people racist on this board anymore, I think we may as well all just stop coming. Next thing you'll tell me we can't go straight to Hitler comparisons or something.

Wait, what I meant to say is: Lighten up, Francis :p

Hey, if they're being racist, go for it. If they're not, though, I don't think we should be calling them that. I doubt you would say that to Jon's face without more evidence to back it up here, would you?

Stay classy.

There is early talk about Jameer Nelson possibly making a comeback for the finals.

If he does, will he even be relevant, considering the long layoff?

:lol:

i should turn on my mic and record my brother and me watching the next lakers game. it's a nonstop stream of "rapist" this and "awww pau does your vagina hurt?" that. Pretty classy and classic.

Bosh - not gonna happen. Even with Amare what do you trade? You need about $13 million in salary to trade for him plus something the Suns actually want in the deal. On top of that Amare can opt out the same year Lebron can. They have the salary in Ben Wallace (although Ben is now talking retirement so I don't know how that affects being able to trade his cap number) but what do you offer? Are you willing to give up Hickson? I would think Phoenix could get something better and what happens if he bolts after a year? Or what happens if you sign both him and Varejao to long term deals and Lebron bolts?


Its funny because I suggested Marion to a friend of mine the other day. He fits exactly what the Cavs lack. He's a good defender and is capable of playing and defending the perimeter - I like the Cavs chances against a team like Orlando with Mo on Jameer/Rafer, Delonte against Lee, Lebron against Hedo, Marion against Lewis and Z against Howard with Varejao off the bench. Against a more conventional lineup you could slide West to the bench and play Lebron at 2 and Marion at 3 if you wanted. I think the last person you want is Rasheed. If you plan on keeping Lebron in town the last thing you need is Sheed poisoning the water hole so to speak. I look back at what happened in Detroit and I can't help but think that Rip and Tayshaun took their cues on whining, complaining and especially in Rip's case racking up Ts from Rasheed. Don't get me wrong, without Rasheed we probably don't win that title but I think renting him for a couple of months as a hired gun can work - anything longer and forget it - he's not the kind of guy who's going to take a backseat though and do you really want to throw the task of reigning him in on Lebron with the current contract situation?


Gordon would be a great fit but he's not signing for the MLE. He wants major money and will get it from somebody so unless they work a sign and trade with Chicago there's no way to do it. Chicago might go for that if they feel they don't want to pay him what he wants but would Cleveland want to committ themselves to being a luxury tax type team? You know Lebron's getting the max - Gordon would certainly be looking for something at least 10-12 million per, Mo is signed on for 9 million per and you're going to be resigning Varejao. That would be four players for 40-45 million plus the 9 million owed for the West/Gibson combo and do you resign Z when his contract is up in a year?

If I'm Cleveland I fire Mike Brown immediately, break the bank for someone like Jeff Van Gundy and go after Marion with the MLE. I would also try to use Ben Wallace's contract to make a deal. In fact I would target Kevin Martin from Sacramento. The Kings are in total rebuild mode now and the franchise is struggling financially. Offer JJ Hickson and a 1st round pick with Wallace for Martin and be willing to take Udrih's contract too. That would leave the Kings in a much better financial spot and give the Cavs some immediate scoring help from Martin and some needed athleticism from Marion. It puts them in cap hell but Lebron certainly would have plenty around him.

I think a lot of you guys are underestimating how bad the financial system in the league is right now. 25 of the 30 teams will have lost money this year, many teams in upwards of $50 million. Season ticket renewal rates are down a ton. Even a team like the Bulls that typically average a 95% renewal rate and have a ton of promise for the future are seeing it drop to the low 80's. A few teams will be losing half their season ticket holders this year.

Essentially what you're going to have this offseason is 25 teams trying to cut payroll and 5 teams adding to it. The salary cap is not going to go up this year and will probably even go down in 2010. You have a gigantic free agency class in 2010 as well as a collective bargaining agreement that needs to be re-done and leaves a ton of uncertainty amongst teams (we could see a major overhaul like with what we saw in the NHL).

I just don't see teams jumping to offer Ben Gordon a 6-year, 65 million dollar deal when he is undersized and can't defend anyone. Or a Lamar Odom who has his flaws and is hitting 30 with close to 700 games under his belt. Teams are getting much smarter with contracts and you just aren't going to see this stuff go down anymore under this economic climate.

Even if there is a fit for a guy, there isn't going to be much competition to sign them that it helps drive up the price.

Actually I might, because I was joking, and I tend to not hold back with jokes. The fact that he wasn't being overtly racist is what makes it funny.

Ah whatever, I always forget how PC some people can be. God forbid we poke fun at each other on the internet.

And I always forget how unapologetic people hide behind "joking" when they insult people. I guess we're all so forgetful today!

Gotta say, outside of my usual interest in the Lakers being denied championships, my interest in the Finals is extremely low. I don't think I can name ANYONE on the Magic. I was rooting for Lebron and the Cavs, but now I am having trouble mustering much interest.

Rashard Lewis? Hedo Turkoglou?

Dwight Howard (the pride of Southwest Atlanta Christian High School)?

I've heard of Turkoglou. Woot!

1) A statement can be a joke and yet cause one to feel insulted at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive. It usually depends on a persons sense of humour. I suggest you attempt to acquire one (oh snap!).

2) I feel I have nothing to apologize for, so yes, I'm unapologetic. Umm, point for you? I don't know how this is scored.

3) I'm not hiding from anything. See above.

Can we move on now? Or do you want to lecture me some more? Maybe we should start calling you Chief Mum.

:D

It's worth a shot. If he does better than Johnson or Alston he'll get minutes, if he's too far off the pace they can just stick with what's gotten them to the finals.

The Lakers can't stop Nelson so him being able to play even at 80% is a huge plus. Alston though is a little quicker than Nelson I believe so he may pose more of a threat. The achilles heel of the Lakers is quick guards.

I agree with the signing Marion part. I'm not too keen on Martin though.

I'm firing Brown, signing Marion, trading Ben Wallace for Elton Brand, and then moving Gibson, Hickson and Pavlovic(mostly non guaranteed deal) to the Bucks for Redd.

Sure that's all injury catastrophe waiting to happen. But it's not my money.

I thought Rafer Alston was the pot smoking thug Jon was referring to.

Martin has one skill and that's scoring. He's not a franchise player but if he doesn't have to be anything but the #2 scorer I can see him thriving there. I don't like a trade for Brand at all - thats a HUGE contract and with his injury history I don't like it. Also they wouldn't be able to do to trades - Wallace is the only real salary they can move and if he's going to retire teams would love to take his expiring contract and buy him out cheap so that's a good trade piece but it's the only major salary they have to trade. I think if they sign Marion then they should trade for a guard. Redd's a fine fit - pretty much the same kind of player as Martin. I like that move as well especially Redd is an OSU grad.

You're right, you're not hiding from anything, you are quite publically an asshole. Cool, glad we got that straight.

Pavs is signed for near the league average with about a mil guarateed. In theory that's a good chip.

I can see both sides of Brand. I'm for rolling the dice if it is just money.

I wonder how much cash Gilbert is going to be willing to spend. I have no idea how The Rock Financial or quicken loans are doing though. We had a top 5 payroll and next year will be higher. I love Andy but I hope they tell him to walk if he wants 10M.

Sweet, not only did I get another lecture, you decided to call me a dirty word to boot! I feel so scolded! Do it again, do it again!!

His business is doing well - its actually growing. They didn't have many bad mortgages on the books...they had already sold most of them to the banks. Plus he's got the Chinese investors now too so that means a pile of cash and Yi Jianlian will be coming to the Cavs :)

Asshole.

Marion's pretty washed up. He's been traded 3 times in 2 seasons and was basically an expiring contract in Toronto (with no sniff of an extension from the Raps). But, he could certainly be had for the MLE if Cleveland wants.

Word around Phoenix is that the Shaq for Wallace plus spare parts deal may come back (the rumored deal is Shaq for Wallace+Sasha+ a pick). It saves the Suns around $3 million and gets the Cavs a low post scorer. That's about the closest thing to a bigtime deal I can see Cleveland getting.

*sniff*... shut up... just shut up.
You had me at 'ass'.
*sniff*
You had me at 'ass'!

Back to hiding you go then. No surprise.

I'm thinking that wally will be the beneficiary of a "accept this sign and trade for way more money than your worth" trade. I believe the first year is the only thing that has to be guaranteed. And the team getting him could have the second year partially guaranteed. Which makes him a huge chip in the 2010 offseason.

I think you're dreaming a little, steve. I don't think anyone will be willing to give a player like Szerbiak (sp) any decent money, even over just two years. And certainly not trade anything decent for him to get the chance to do it. Only way would be if someone was so overloaded contract-wise that a team was desperate to get rid of him.

Say...want Zach Randolph?