A plot hole moment or two perhaps but all in all they found a way to get largely back to canon.

And they appear to be content to not rush the next big storyline, which is probably for the best.

Really strong episode to open up the second half of the season

I thoroughly enjoyed the two kids deaths, not something I ever expected to say.

They needed to kill Glenn, or not have that scene. After all the issues to end the first half of the season, the last thing we needed was more proof of the sheer invincibility of the main cast. Someone important really needs to die soon if they expect us to feel the tension they're trying to create by putting Rick and Glenn and Maggie in what appears to be serious danger.

I did also enjoy the opening, and Merritt Weaver continues to impress.

haven't watched since season 3 but did they kill a zombie, then lose a member to a zombie then have a tussle with outsiders?

You didn't get that feeling with Carl this episode?

That was definitely a major culling. Time to introduce new characters I guess? I loved the episdode though, considering how many zombies were around their walls for several episodes, this needed to happen eventually.

And don't worry, Negan is coming. Nobody in the main cast should feel too comfortable.

That was a very tense episode. Very tense.

I love that they did the rocket launcher right. In so many movies you see the rocket shoot through the air with the vapor trail behind it, but it doesn't really quite work that way. Things just tend to explode, like Negan's bikers.

Solid opening.

I had very mixed feelings about the episode. I didn't really know how to put my finger on it until I read this blog today.

And it wasn't so much the child deaths as much as it was the random timing of the kids breakdown and the fact that he was suddenly surrounded and not one person noticed? Then it happened again?

I thought that the epic hack and slash to dispatch the entire hoard was far beyond anything good. I've commented on the ease at which zombies are dispatched and now it's even easier. This group really shouldn't fear them any longer. Simply going into bezerker mode is good enough, and all the men can now do that so there's that.

Glen being saved from another certain death with multiple perfect head shots from assault rifles, in the dark, from range, and not getting even nicked just iced the cake. The storytelling can still be good, but this just seemed like mailing it in.

Weak. It was weak.

I read that io9 review as well and didn't agree with any of it. I don't think much of that Bricken guy as a reviewer of TV or a thinker. His post about how Deadpool will affect Marvel films was pretty facile.

That said, I did feel they were almost trolling the audience with the Glenn situation there.

I also would have liked to have seen at least some people die in the great zombie massacre. It would have been more believable that way.

The opening scene and the scene where Jesse and her kids died were fantastic. Super tense.

Interesting... I got the feeling they were getting tired at the end and things were about to change until the rest of the gang showed up. I think that's always been the real issue - not that the zombies were hard to kill, but how long can you last before you get tired/make a mental mistake/they surrounding you and you're trapped.


Yeah - agreed here. I saw that and didn't get how they didn't hit Glen.

I did a little bit of cheating and reading up on the comic book series. I think maybe they are setting us up.

I agree with you, I just finished that comic, and if they do it the way the comic is..holy hell..

I will say this much, we had a watch party and it was funny watching the group flip when the kid was chomped...

I know, I know, there's a million of these things ... but this is just too good :)

holy hell that's great Jon. :D :D :D

I can't get it out of my head!

CORAL! An EYE-PAD, CORAL!

I loved the biker scene. Pure awesomeness.

And, yeah, at this point, suspension of disbelief is tough with the incredible accuracy of the headshots saving Glen.

Still, I enjoyed the episode quite a bit.

Finally saw the episode and it thoroughly enjoyed it. Thought Glenn was a goner again but he has about 5 lives left.

The opening scene with the bikers was fantastic.

Richonne!

With about 45 minutes to digest tonight's episode, obviously there'll be one major thing talked about from it ... but for me the takeaway is that this might have been the strongest Carl episode to date.

They gave him some strong stuff to play without much dialogue for some of it, he hit a towering home run with it IMO.

Have to agree, he did a great job, all so subtle, but very powerful. Too bad it will be overshadowed by the new power couple in most conversations like you mentioned.

Overall a very good "catch your breath" kind of episode.

I bitch a lot about the show when they do dumb things so I feel like I should make sure to give them credit for the good episodes. Like you guys said above, I thought this was a solid Carl episode, and I'm very happy to see that eyepatch Carl isn't petulant, angry, or depressed (though any of that could probably have been justified). Deanna zombie worked nicely for me, and Rick and Daryl out on runs is something I could watch a whole lot of before it got old I think. Good episode.

Turns out Rick is the town slut.

How'd they process the film for the picture in the frame at the beginning of the episode? When they stole the truck and got the radio going, there's a radio station still running nearby?

Thought it was that CD they had in the car, no?

Digital camera and printer, I guess.

Yeah, Rick had a CD. Darryl was rolling his eyes when Rick put it in in the car.

I used to really like The Walking Dead. Gradually, the show seems to have become all about how to 'shock' the audience but I still liked it. But after this last episode, I wonder if I have turned the corner on this show and will stop watching very shortly.

This last episode was SO bad. Have they fired all the competent writers and replaced them with high school kids who took a single creative writing course and now think they can write screenplays? Even a high school kid should have known to have one of them drive the truck and the other drive the car. Head straight home convoy style and enjoy a truck load of food. But not on this show. Nope. Let's leave the car behind and go on some wacky adventure that leaves the truck at the bottom of a lake. And this wasn't even the stupidest plot point in the show. Let's tie a guy up, leave him on the side of the road.... and then find out he is magically on the roof of the truck as we are driving off road. Then have Daryl jump out and run around like a Benny Hill episode. And then have Rick jump out and fight zombies.

And, according to Carl, the rule is now that you can kill zombies that a) you didn't know when they were alive or b) that you loved when they were alive. But apparently not zombies that you knew but did not love. The writers go from plot device A to plot device B and get there in whatever way they think of first.

I think the writers are just trolling everyone trying to see just how stupid their scripts can be and still keep an audience. We will see how long they keep me.

Edited to add: One more thing that really bugged me. Well, there are many more... this is just one. Rick and Daryl chase the truck ON FOOT. And catch it because the truck has magically broken down. And then it is magically fixed when they get back in to drive away. Groan.

I don't take the show as seriously as some of you guys do... mindless entertainment and so I enjoy it quite a bit. I do find it humorous that this zombie apocalypse happened at least 5 years ago and they are driving current model year brand new Chryslers around. :)

Well, has the show really advanced in time much more than a year or two?

I don't take it too seriously either. All I ask is for it to entertain me. It has done that. Second favorite show to Game of Thrones.

Someone might quibble with the math at this link but
The Walking Dead TV Show Timeline - Walking Dead Wiki - Wikia

it looks like we're right around the 2 year mark.

Are we sure this series isn't filmed in England? :)

Hell, I'm British, so maybe I can get on next season.

Good episode, I like seeing another settlement with a different dynamic, seeing this group tonight felt better than anything about the Governor's group ever did as far as having potential for a decent storyline.

All I can say is, if they follow the comic book...fans aren't going to like what is coming up...I might even wince if done like the comics.

But this was an episode I kept waiting for something to happen, didn't expect what happened, but my favorite scene was when rick stood up, covered...turned and said..."What?"

Yup, it will suck.

"That prick's got nothing on you"

So, no idea how many Saviors we're going to see but I counted 17 dead. Dude on the bike makes #18, and at least 2 holding Carol+Maggie. Toss in a half dozen that were slaughtered by rocket launcher earlier, and Rick's team has to have dealt some pretty meaningful damage.

Given where we're at in the season, I'm guessing this isn't Saviors HQ, but rather an outpost? And that they've got enough people to cause major pain/losses for our fallen heroes?

That's my guess as well, without knowing anything about the comics or how close this lined up to things from the source.

I liked the episode, I mostly liked how they dealt with the gravity of the situation leading up to the attack. Even though we saw Negan's men in the rocket launcher scene enough to know that they are terrible people, it was still a big step to aggressively seek out and kill other people like this, and I felt they did a good enough job of conveying how big a deal this is for the group.

Some things didn't really have the impact they were supposed to for me. Basically all of the relationship stuff, Carol, Abraham, and uhh, the two lesbians who have names I'm sure but I don't care what they are. I don't feel any investment in any of those relationships, the show has really done nothing to build any of that up to something meaningful. Also, Father Gabriel's transition shouldn't have happened off screen. The fact that he's now willing, and capable of killing anything at all should be a huge deal. I liked his scenes in this episode, but we needed to see a little more of that change in progress, training... anything.. to make that really feel powerful.

But anyway, still a really solid episode overall.

Yeah I don't like all these couples, either. I realize humans are few and far between and people are horny, but I'm pretty much done with all these relationships.

I am rooting for Carl & Sophia.

Just got around to watching the last episode and surprised to see no comments.

Thought it was a good character episode for Carol and Maggie. Usually Carol is badass Carol doing what needs to be done, and while she once again does, I thought it was interesting to watch her struggle with it a little.

Carol is such a good character and Melissa McBride is clearly one of the best actresses on the show (or at least is being used in the best way to fit her ability), so a Carol centric episdoe like this one works very, very well for me.



So this is an issue for me. Here is my understanding of this: there is a brief scene where Carol is still visibly angry with Morgan for not killing the Wolves dude from the last half season, but didn't 'turn him in" for it. Then there is a montage of Carol baking cookies and a brief shot of her looking at/fiddling with a board where she is tracking the people she's killed so far.

Now in a life or death situation with Maggie, whose baby she appears to want to protect at all costs, killing anyone, even people who are directly trying to kill her, is openly agonizing to the point that she risks her life and Maggie's to try to avoid killing.

Carol is one of the best couple characters on the show, she has the most depth and has been the most well developed. This kind of a shift in her behavior is very interesting in terms of her development... but... did they actually show us enough of what she went through to bring about this shift?

What I mean is that, I can look at the stuff that happened in the past episodes and say "Oh, I guess that is what they were trying to tell me?" but at no time during the past few episodes did I look at anything they showed with Carol and think "uh-oh, Carol is seriously wavering on the things she's done in the zombie apocalypse, this is going to be a really big deal the next time she gets in trouble".

When they brush past a relationship with Abraham, fine, he's a side character who isn't fleshed out nearly as well as he could be, whatever, I don't really care. Carol, however, is the best thing about the show and I want them to get it right.


I dunno, to reiterate, I *really* enjoyed this episode. But, I feel like I could have enjoyed it 100 times more and it had the potential to be the best episode the show has ever done if they had spent a little more screen time making it clear what was going on in Carol's head leading up to this episode.

Carol's agonizing over shooting the redhead wasn't so much a shift in her approach generally, it was a specific situation due to the obvious similarities in the two women (and perhaps by extension then to the other Saviours). Her subsequent angst seems to be brought on by that rather than some greatly pre-existing condition.

I thought the episode was fantastic. I've loved the last two.

I agreed that Carol is one of the best characters, if not the best character, on the show. I strongly believe her character and the arc it has taken is one the most surprising in any TV series. Looking back from what she was to what she's become, you rarely see a middle aged actress get to have that kind of arc and depth. She's great.

I don't agree that you haven't seen her wavering. It's been happening. She wavered after she killed that little girl. She sat at the table with Tyrese, confessed to killing his girlfriend and that other guy, started crying, and slid the gun across the table almost asking for Tyrese to kill her.

At the end of the episode where she killed all of those Wolves, I remember her sitting down on the porch and looking very shaken by what happened and looking down at the "A" carved into the wood. Again, it seemed she was quite shaken and afraid that she was much more a "W" than an "A". I don't think she's ever been completely cold and totally cool with what she's had to do. It has always eaten at her. She's struggled with it. And, let's be honest, other than Rick she's probably had to do the coldest shit of anyone in the group.

I think a lot of what we saw in the episode was an act, but some of it wasn't. Maybe she saw some of herself in Paula in a way she never did with the people in Terminus (cannibals) or the Wolves (complete mad people). In those instances, killing really was the only option. She was alone with Terminus and the Wolves were crazy, there was no reasoning with them. Paula and her crew could be seen differently. There was an alternative path - letting them go and getting away - as opposed to just killing them.

I find her reaction to it all completely human and largely consistent with the character to date.

Rick, on the other hand, is pretty crazy and capable of pretty much anything with little remorse. A fascinating character to have as your lead hero/protagonist.

Yeah, it's kind of the nature of this kind of show. If it's just a constant slaughtering of zombies, that would get boring. So they end up coming into conflict with other people, some of whom they end up needing to kill.

Agree with this.

Carol, imho, has always seen her group as the "good guys". And I especially liked when Paula said to her "you aren't the good guys here Carol". It was always obvious with the governor, the wolves, Terminus, etc. that they were always justified in killing them before they killed us. But here....maybe the Rick army isn't really living by standards that make her comfortable. And perhaps Morgan rubbed off on her a bit and she's wondering where her humanity lies.

I do think she was setting them up with her hyperventilating and acting like she was scared. But I think as time went on she definitely identified with Paula and did not want to kill her if she could possibly avoid it. Likely more about maintaining her own morality than her affinity towards Paula....but still relevant to her imho. But that's what's great about episodes like that one. We can speculate about it and nobody is really wrong because Carol is such a great character, played by such a great actress in MM.

I also liked (in a sick sorta way) vicious Maggie. She was like a momma grizzly in that episode protecting her cub.

Fair enough, appreciate the detailed reply, and despite how much I wrote about that one idea, I did really love this episode.

PM - replying to your comment about catching up on the comic, I just hit that part too and yowza, that would be insane. A buddy of mine and I were talking and we feel they could be setting us up for something similar, but with a different character (much like they have done in the past with things - still do comic-ideas, but mix it those involved)

I totally get your reaction. I was thinking the exact same thing as I watched the episode unfold. It wasn't til I started to think about it later and reflect on some old episodes and the Paula connection, that it started to make more sense and seem less out of character or out of the blue.

I have to admit I did have many of the same thoughts you stated at first. I changed them a bit after reflectIng a bit on Carol's time with Morgan and some of the dialog (especially the line about them not being the good guys).

None of its wrong imho. Great episode in a series that doesn't often (but occasionally) deliver some solid reflection on the way the chaos of the new world affects people.

I think the last 4 episodes have been one of the stronger runs this show ever had. I still have some small quibbles though.

While they were on their face-stabbing spree, it bummed me out that the felt the need to include the one room where a guy seemed to have polaroid shots of all the people he killed. This feels like such an obvious - "we need to make it clear to the audience that these are BAD guys." I wish they had played it more straight, and maybe not have the 2 guards be the most collosal dicks in the world.

It's way more interesting if they can sell us a situation where they themselves, and us as viewers, can start to openly question some of their actions.

Like... if they break into a complex and stab a ton of people in their sleep, it's pretty damn interesting. They're bordering on doing absolutely anything even when the necessity of those actions is definitely up for debate. As the leader of hilltop said - you guys didn't want to work in exchange for food, but you're all-in on murdering a bunch of people? They never really gave that thought time to simmer.

Instead the writers make sure to provide them with pretty clear moral high ground even if they are definitely becoming more ruthless. It's just not as interesting to me. *shrug*

Pretty solid episode. Enjoyed it.

Talking Dead indicated that Abraham should have died in this episode? Glad they changed it some which implies other future deaths may not occur.

Oh I'd say they'll occur ... just not neccessarily to the same people as in the comics.

Actually, that was major foreshadowing, if you go back and look at how they died..It's pretty apparent to me that they will pull no punches when the season ends and they finally meet Negan.

*nods*

It is nice to know that while they still keep some of the methods from the comics, they can still surprise you with who they pull them out on.

Another solid episode.

This half-season, or whatever you call it, has been great so far.

I read the comics and totally forgot how Abraham died in them. It's been a while.

Agreed. They are getting it "right" in this season...though I can't quite put my finger on what it is compared to other seasons with more ups & downs. Maybe they've just killed off all the annoying characters? :)

That arrow scene was beyond jolting and intense.

I think more often I'd like to see them taking a ton of precautions and have a random death, rather than decide to be completely off the chain idiots which inevitably leads to death.

Just felt like a shit end to the episode to me. They've been on a bit of a hot streak, but I didn't love this episode.

That was a pretty intense episode. Doesn't look good for the good guys ... my guess is there will be a death next week.

Carol was great. In a way I'm getting tired of her being a bad ass but this episode was a good one for further developing what happened last week.

Well that was a whole lot of stupid.

If it follows the comic...next week is going to shock the hell out of a lot of people that have never read them.

I am ready for it, but knowing the writers, they are going to do an end around and shock everyone.

Unfortunately if it follows the comic I had it ruined by a friend of mine. The people on here have been pretty good about avoiding spoilers. Which brings me to a question... what exactly does someone get out of spoiling it? I ask mostly about my friend but also in general? Am I supposed to respect that he gave away a major plotline that I could have looked up myself if I wanted to? (He doesn't even read the comics just spoilers)

Why last night's Walking Dead has me finally ready to quit watching https://t.co/7HEFG9zn44 pic.twitter.com/bjFqifRWY1

— Alan Sepinwall (@sepinwall) March 28, 2016

I read the comics but my wife doesn't and we both love the show - and she loves hearing about what is happening in the comics. And honestly, with how often they've diverged from the comics, no matter what happens next week, it is bound to surprise - even if the same events happen in the same manner (which, given even recent history, would surprise me).

This. Everyone acting like idiots in face of an imminent threat makes it hard to enjoy the action sequences that I think we're supposed to like.

It would be one thing if you had a single character kind of going off the reservation at a bad time, but in this case you have:
- Carol leaving on her own
- Darryl leaving to hunt down a group
- Two people leaving to chase Carol
- Three people leaving to chase Darryl
- Darryl not listening to reason from group
- Group getting split into 2x2
- Michonne and Glenn not immediately heading back to their cars, but seemingly wandering deeper in forest to get ambushed by a pack of Saviors
- Darryl the tracker + Rosita getting ambushed by same pack of nigh invisible Saviors
- Saviors electing not to kill any of the four people, just to shoot Darryl for reasons that don't immediately make any sense at all
- Rick being OK leaving Morgan out there hunting down Carol when they are approaching "all hands on deck" showdown with Saviors

But other than these couple holes, pretty pumped about Negan? :banghead:

A couple of the list as noted here stand out to me, from amongst a truly "how many stupid moves can be packed into one episode" kinda night


That whole sequence seemed like everybody got lost. In theory, I guess, Michonne & Glenn were headed back to the cars when they got grabbed. But if so does that mean that Darryl & Rosita had doubled back too?


re: shooting Darryl, that seemed like doohickey Savior Lieutenant guy decided to make it tougher for Darryl to be problematic. Let him worry about not bleeding to death instead of how to escape.


I kinda understood that too since, apparently, Morgan is planning to save them rather than kill them. His absence from the scene might very well be no great loss.

I stopped watching because i think the writing is horrible, but my pvr still records it. My buddy likes it, but he thinks it's fun to tell me what happens to get my reactions.

So....Carl gets shot in the eye. This girl, who is about as qualified as me to be a doctor because we have both seen an episode of ER, decides some suturing would be nessessary. She sutures him up really good, and without the training of a real doctor, Carl is able to heal from this normally life threatening bullet to the head....

Fast forward to this weekend when my buddy tells me that this same girl, who now calls herself the doctor, gets shot in the head, right through the eye with an arrow. This time, they don't even try to save her. She's way dead. No signs of life.

Arrow, dead...Bullet, Alive...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

That's truly awesome. I may have to start watching again, that's comedy gold!!!!:popcorn:

Yeah, that's a pretty poor and largely incorrect recount of events.

Please correct me then...

I ask this in all sincerity ... why would anyone bother to try?

You're kind of clearly enjoying trolling the thread more than the show, why waste the time to get in the way of that?

Watch the f'n show, or don't.
Enjoy it, or don't.

But maybe don't troll about, m'kay.

sorry to upset you lil guy. I made an observation about something i thought was amusing and completely fits into the HORRIBLE WRITING that has been a hallmark of a show you clearly love. No need to get defensive. You don't like my post, ignore it. Telling someone what to do on the the internet...haha, funny.

While, I pretty much agree with this...


I will still gladly be cordial and do this...



Okay, first. Carl did get shot in the eye. But the bullet grazed his eye/the side of his head. It took out the eye and some of the orbital bone around it, but the bullet never entered his head or so much touched his brain.

The crossbow bolt, however, entered into the back of Denise's head, went completely through her brain, and then went out the eye.

I don't think it's too hard to see how the scenario Carl was involved in would lead to the loss of the eye, but not death, whereas Denise would not likely survive a crossbow bolt through the brain.

Second, Denise was a psychiatrist, which means she is a trained physician. She was pre-med in undergrad, went to medical school for four years, did rotations while in medical school (which means she worked at a hospital for a few weeks/months doing various different tasks - ER, surgery, oncology, psych, etc.) So, while she was a psychiatrist and not a surgeon, she was medically trained. So, she did, in fact, have the "training of a real doctor" and is much more "qualified as [you] to be a doctor because [you] have ... seen an episode of ER", whereas she, you know, went to medical school and worked in hospitals for a few years before becoming a psych resident.

As for this...


No. The writing isn't "HORRIBLE". That, again, is just not an accurate statement.

It's been uneven. Sometimes bad, sometimes great, lots of time in the middle.

Noooooo ... I gave you options and followed up with a related suggestion.

I realize that you appear unlikely you have the class, decency or simple good sense to run with the advice but {shrug} at least I offered.

I'm not one to apologize for the show, but they also made it really clear in one of the earlier episodes this season that Denise was attempting to actually put her prior medical knowledge to better use and learn more of the skills that she would need as the only doctor the people had at that point. And when I say "really clear", they were beating the viewer over the head with it.

Horribly tacky to end that with a cliffhanger IMO.

Not the good kind of thing to me, more like kinda pisses me off at fucking with the audience to that extent.

Yea.. One the best scenes of the series and they ruin it with a cliffhanger that didn't need to be. Ask the risk of being that guy, the comics handled it way better

I feel like a decision was made that they either couldn't -- or shouldn't -- recreate the scene faithfully in terms of visuals

Agreed. Wholly unnecessary. After the nonsense they pulled with Glenn earlier this season, it's particularly bad.


While I feel the show is generally a pretty good improvement on the comic, I agree.

I have never read the comics but I felt the same way tonight. That was a terrible cliffhanger to leave the show on.

Yeah I think I mentioned it to you a week or so ago on Facebook that I'd heard about a probable cliffhanger happening but didn't want to be more specific. Not everyone was familiar with the comics.

That being said, I haven't watched in a season but I'm sure I'll watch them all at some point. Leaving the audience hanging with a "who died" cliffhanger is horrible when it will be 6-7months till it's resolved. It's unnecessary to break the audience/show unwritten agreement like that and it's bad storytelling. Small episode run shows such as this should(I'd consider each 8 episode block its own season basically) always conclude the storyline within the allotted amount of episodes.


Now if this was a fall season into spring season cliffhanger that's more reasonable as the amount of time the audience has to wait is significantly shorter(2.5mo vs 6mo)

Yup. Having all of the main characters lose their minds last week to generate this type of situation in the first place put most of what happened tonight in a negative light for me going into it. I know others have a different view on Carol's arc, but Carol is just too damn important a character for this show to have her go from king badass to this person we're now seeing without serious screen time and development. We could have gotten here in a brilliant way, instead of... whatever this is. And then the cliffhanger... if its someone who has been with us since season 1 or 2, they could have shown that tonight for devastating effect. Delaying it, meh. And if its someone more recent, all it does is further the problems created by Glenn's situation that the main cast are completely invincible.

Practically speaking, in this day and age where contracts are hard to keep secret, where pictures are taken on set and where so many things get leaked, its very likely that we will be able to rule out many of the cast as the victim just based on info we'll find on pop culture sites. We may even know exactly who it is weeks before the premiere. So even if it wasn't a bad idea from a storytelling perspective, its a horrible idea logistically given how this shit works in the real world.

Bleh!

Brutally boring for 75 minutes, a really good 14 minutes, and a disaster of a final minute.

(ballpark)

I didn't hate the ending as much as everyone else, but I do suspect it won't be a truly major character that gets it. I think we have clues that it is not Carl or Rick ("take out his eye and feed it to Rick"). I could see it being Glenn.

I thought it was annoying that the convenient pregnancy complication set the whole mission in motion, and that the Saviors seemed to just know when they'd be going to the Hill (whatever it's called). It just seemed very contrived. The Saviors anticipating every move was also annoying, just as it was annoying when our guys attacked the other group and came out unscathed. Battles shouldn't be so one-sided all the time.

Also, doesn't it make sense for Negan and his guys to just wipe out Rick's group entirely? Rick's group has already proven that they are dangerous. And the Saviors are not short on people to take over Alexandria. Why not do the safe thing and kill them all?

I agree that the Carol crisis of conscience is annoying as well. Especially when the shit is hitting the fan for the rest of the group.

Still love the show, but the season had it's share of plotting problems.

I suspect this too. Honestly if its anyone but Glenn, Daryl, Maggie, Michonne, Carl or Rick, I think its a complete disaster for the show to have done it this way. But if I had to put money on it, I'd guess its someone else that has had very little screen time and development comparitively. If I had to bet on one specific person, it would be Eugene. They spent a bit of time in the last two episodes building up his character slightly, they showed him to have an important skill to the group, they practically gave him a sendoff in the finale, and Negan's comment about "Taking it like a man" or whatever it was would be fitting given the quick turn they've done with him now being presented as capable and useful.

Even though its the most telegraphed thing, I think it *needs* to be Glenn. That's the only possible way they could justify all of the shit with him earlier in the season.


Has anyone been reading reddit or fan boards or anything? They have *seriously* pissed off their most loyal comic book fans and viewers apparently. I'm not a comic book reader but I heard what was supposed to happen here, tons of comments about how "this sould have been Walking Dead's 'red wedding'" and that they completely botched it. The show is so popular I'm sure it will be fine, but this is just hilariously bad.

I'm sure they'll do incredible premiere numbers, which they'll point to as justification. And then those numbers will plummet (relatively speaking).

It really can't be Carl because then to have any semblance to what would happen in real life Rick would immediately be dead as well. (Or Maggie and Glenn for the same reason) I am also worried that it will be Sasha or the guy whose name I don't even know who recruited them to come to Alexandria. I agree with an earlier post that Eugene has had a lot of build up to make him seem like a more important character so it could be him.

I think it is a throw back to "Who shot JR?" or even more recently the end of each season of Lost. I am not as mad as most though I would have liked to see who it is as well.

http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/walking...-misses-234745

This states things better than I did.

A few tings...

1. Yes, they totally botched the ending. I know what they were trying to do with the whole cliffhanger thing, but it didn't work, especially with what they did with Glenn earlier in the season and how they ended the prior episode with Darryl getting shot. You can only attempt that move so often and eventually it gets old. There was such build up and anticipation for this and the scene, otherwise, was really good. Then... crap.

2. I agree with Radii that, in the era of the internet, there will be constant spoilers and crap about which cast member showed up where, if they signed on for a new series, etc, etc. I really no longer care who dies. It would have been intense to see it happen last night. Six-seven months from now following all that speculation and those rumors? Not so much.

3. I read the comics. Overall, I think the show is much, much better than the comics. The characters are better. The writing is better. The plots and execution are better. This scene, however, was better in the comics. The whole way it played out was.

4. Speaking of... The whole trek to Hilltop was stupid. How did the Saviors know they were going to Hilltop then? Or have they just had all the roads between Alexandria and Hilltop blocked off for a few days now? That's possible, but seems odd. Why do they go through the effort to make such elaborate roadblocks like the zombie-chain or the wall of wood and fire? That's a lot of work and effort for psychological warfare. How did they know that the group would stop the RV where it stopped, in the middle of the night in the woods, and for some of the group to finally get out and walk on foot? Negan and his people were just too omniscient. It was all too much. It would have been better and much more believable had it been more straightforward.

5. Yeah there is internet outrage, but there has been plenty of internet outrage at this show in the past. I would be surprised if the ratings are at all affected by this. The premiere numbers will be huge as always and there will be a drop, as always. The key numbers to watch is the comparisons - i.e, episode 2 of next year versus last year and so on. If there is a big drop there, then perhaps people did finally bail. I'll believe it when I see it.

6. The Carol stuff. I think you can look back to the episode where Carol killed the little girl and confessed to Tyrese that she was the one who killed his girlfriend and that other guy to stop the spread of the super flu. At the end of that episode, after she confesses, she slides a gun across the table and essentially offers Tyrese the opportunity to kill her. Granted, Carol kicked a TON of ass since then - primarily Terminus and versus the Wolves - but you could say these acts of violence always affected her. There was also the scene of she killed all those wolves when she was on the porch looking quite shaken. Still, they could have handled it better and more deftly. It's weird that her killing the red headed Savior woman - who had kidnapped her and Maggie, threatened to kill them a few times, and was overall a seemingly horrible person - was what tipped her over the edge.

My assumption(s) is this: they (somehow) knew the group was en route to Hilltop. I can't explain how they knew, but let's give them that one for a moment. From there, they knew how many ways in there were, they easily have the manpower to block them all, they were willing to do so because Negan is Negan.

The "knowing they'd approach on foot" only came about once Eugene was captured, that would have made it kind of obvious what was next.


I think all of this ... angst for lack of a better word, it simply the TV show trying to get her back more in line with her eventual comic book path than with the Superwoman she had become.

This should have been one of the most brutal, violent deaths in Walking Dead history, and instead it was cartoony with red computer blotches and 6 months of waiting. I've been waiting for this moment the entire season and I couldn't have pictured it turning out any worse than it did.

I do think that they casted Negan pretty well, and the Saviors definitely looked ultra powerful this time. They've pretty much been pushovers the rest of the season, so it's nice to show them as much more than that.

Sad sad sad. But the right thing to do.

That was brutal.

Hopefully Rick gets to carry through on his statement at some point.

The taking Darryl hostage is the monkey wrench that rick probably didn't anticipate. That kind've thwarts any retaliation plans they may have had. As long as they have Darryl, rick and company can't do anything.

I had no idea that much of the cast was British. I'm always amazed at how well they can pull off American accents.

Yes. That was brutal.

That was a pretty great episode. Very tough to watch, but well done. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out over the course of the season.

Ditto, both loathed and enjoyed it immensely.

I think the only character death that I hated worse than Glen's after they teased he had dodged another bullet was Opie's on SOA. :)

Stringer Bell and Wallace on The Wire were pretty bad.

Tasha in STNG!

I think last night's episode would have been better as a season finale. The Glenn death lost some of its edge because we haven't seen him in six months.

That was pretty abysmal. Still, it cleared the way for more Worf, so I didn't mind.