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Rizon 03-09-2006 11:07 PM

0300

EIDT CRAP!

EIDT Oh wiat, woohoo

* The preceding post is MF related

EagleFan 03-09-2006 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeeberD
3000 posts in this thread! :eek:



That's a boxable offense, posting just for the number. Isn't it? Now box yourself dammit. ;) Or just give up your allegiance to the Brokeback Dallas Cowboys. :D

JeeberD 03-09-2006 11:41 PM

Dude, I would NEVER "ost" just for a number. If I ever did, I certainly would perma-ban myself... ;)

bbor 03-09-2006 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeeberD
Dude, I would NEVER "ost" just for a number. If I ever did, I certainly would perma-ban myself... ;)



postwhore:D

EagleFan 03-09-2006 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeeberD
Dude, I would NEVER "ost" just for a number. If I ever did, I certainly would perma-ban myself... ;)


sorry, I had to ay extra to get a keyboard with that other letter. :D

JeeberD 03-09-2006 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbor
postwhore:D


Remember when we were fighting tooth and nail to beat each other to 3000 posts?

Good times... :)

EagleFan 03-10-2006 12:07 AM

What will die out first, the game or this thread?

bbor 03-10-2006 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeeberD
Remember when we were fighting tooth and nail to beat each other to 3000 posts?

Good times... :)


Heh......i think you beat me.

Now i just kick your ass in yahoo fantasy games ;)

JeeberD 03-10-2006 12:22 AM

Actually, you barely beat me... :(

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...highlight=3000

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...highlight=3000

bbor 03-10-2006 12:27 AM

I found this humorous.

tucker342
Grizzled Veteran


Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Iowa City, IA
Posts: 5,803
I will catch you someday!!!

Oh yes I will!!!

EagleFan 03-10-2006 12:39 AM

How many players on the field in Arena football? I keep getting 11. I thought it was a smaller number. Sorry if this was answered but I didn't have the 3 hours to go through this thread. :D

Desnudo 03-10-2006 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo
WOW. just WOW. so basically he's saying that there is no "NFL ruleset" coded into the game? that there are certain NFL rules that the game won't customize to accept.

that's quite a strange choice, and seems like it would turn off a large portion of his potential customers


Hah, when I first starting reading your post, I thought you were going to flame me. But, yes, I think it's pretty clear now that David is coding for himself and himself only. But if that's the case then you shouldn't try and charge $40 for your pipe dream. Someone at Matrix dropped the ball on this one too. Too bad because the game had a lot of potential if the person developing it actually cared about what his potential customers wanted. Hubris I tell you.

Antmeister 03-10-2006 02:39 AM

I'm sorry, I can't help but add to this thread because GWsFBAStartOct292006 is a rare character I have never seen before. You have to see this thread. Hilarious!

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1081875

Antmeister 03-10-2006 02:44 AM

Dola, I love this quote the best:

Quote:

F.I.U. FOOTBALL PROGRAM WILL NEVER EVER ACCOMPLISH ANY KIND OF SUCCESS, AGAINST ANY TYPE OF REAL COMPETITION!! MARK MY WORDS-03/11/06!!

So I guess you can "mark his words" tommorow? He is either authentic or someone is a really good text actor.

Desnudo 03-10-2006 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister71
I'm sorry, I can't help but add to this thread because GWsFBAStartOct292006 is a rare character I have never seen before. You have to see this thread. Hilarious!

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1081875


I'm feeling some Baboonheart there.

albionmoonlight 03-10-2006 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desnudo
I'm feeling some Baboonheart there.

An easy way to check it would be to get in touch with F.I.U. and ask them if an . . . interesting character . . . ever worked for the radio station there. They would remember him.

SFL Cat 03-10-2006 07:49 AM

Hmmm, FIU? He lives in my area. For some reason, that doesn't make me feel at ease.

spcd 03-10-2006 08:19 AM

He seems to exist prior to MF, so either he's been in deep cover waiting for his moment to strike, or he's real.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-...855868-4716933
http://www.answerbag.com/user/profile.php?id=41150


I think he's real, and not quite as crazy as he sounds, it's amplified by his language problems. Although you have to admire someone who answers a delay-of-game question with

As a former sports talk show host (especializing in FootBall), Intramural FootBall Referee at Florida International University, former youth and high school football player and Coach, yes. They should have had to kick again.

Toddzilla 03-10-2006 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spcd
I think he's real, and not quite as crazy as he sounds, it's amplified by his language problems.

I hate to play the 'obvious' card, but I'm calling shenanigans. There is NO WAY IN HELL this clown has any sort of job in coaching, mentoring, public speaking, broadcasting, teaching, or any other sort of job that requires the use of the english language, spoken, written, or otherwise.

I refuse to believe that the bar somewhere has been set so low as to see this person gainfully employed, much less a public-facing one.

albionmoonlight 03-10-2006 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddzilla
I hate to play the 'obvious' card, but I'm calling shenanigans. There is NO WAY IN HELL this clown has any sort of job in coaching, mentoring, public speaking, broadcasting, teaching, or any other sort of job that requires the use of the english language, spoken, written, or otherwise.

I refuse to believe that the bar somewhere has been set so low as to see this person gainfully employed, much less a public-facing one.


I think that I agree with you, but if you look at his "resume," you can see how a lot of it may be puffery and not actual employment.

a former sports talk show host (especializing in FootBall)--THIS COULD SIMPLY MEAN THAT HIS UNIVERSITY ALLOWED ANY STUDENT WHO PAID AN ACTIVITY FEE TO HAVE A "SHOW" AND RAMBLE IN FRONT OF THE STUDENT RADIO MICROPHONE FOR A HALF HOUR.

Intramural FootBall Referee at Florida International University--WHERE I WENT TO SCHOOL THEY WERE DESPARATE FOR REFS. I COULD SEE HIM GETTING THIS JOB.

former youth and high school football player and Coach--MAYBE ANYONE WHO TRIED OUT GOT ON THE TEAM. AND MAYBE THE COACH LET HIM HOLD A CLIPBOARD, MAKING GW A FELLOW "COACH."

And, he never said for how long he held any of these jobs before he was dismissed.

Passacaglia 03-10-2006 09:00 AM

That answerbag link is hilarious -- especially when he asks questions, gets answers, then comments that the answer is wrong, or that's not what he was asking.

"Where can I find website creators who will work for free for my company?"

Ben E Lou 03-10-2006 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister

College Benchwarmer

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,728


Dola, I love this quote the best:

Quote:
F.I.U. FOOTBALL PROGRAM WILL NEVER EVER ACCOMPLISH ANY KIND OF SUCCESS, AGAINST ANY TYPE OF REAL COMPETITION!! MARK MY WORDS-03/11/06!!



So I guess you can "mark his words" tommorow? He is either authentic or someone is a really good text actor.


In all honesty, I laughed harder than I've laughed at anything regarding MaxiFootball when I read the post over at their forums that had that quote in it. This guy is off the freakin' chain when it comes to UIC. WOWWWWW!!!! :D

rkmsuf 03-10-2006 09:07 AM

I love the BLANK.

Passacaglia 03-10-2006 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by answerbag
If you deposited counterfeit bills into an ATM, how would the bank find out?

Answer

(50%, 1 rating) submitted by Great White-GWsFBA (C+, 75%, 12 ratings), Jan 15, 06

I never seen depositing money into a ATM. It is actually possible??

If it is possible, I could not see how the bank could know who deposited the counterfet money, into a ATM. Yes, the are computer records kept, amounts are recorded (maybe exact bills) and video record; however, unless that is the only bill of that exact amount it would be impossible to tell who deposited it. Even fingerprints is no use, when it gets handled inside the bank and other people, before depositing.


Oh, and in another question, he asked how much he should charge for his multiplayer centers...he figured $15 per hour!!!

John Galt 03-10-2006 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia
Oh, and in another question, he asked how much he should charge for his multiplayer centers...he figured $15 per hour!!!


He's got that ambition baby look in his eyes
This week he's moppin floors next week it's the fries

Ben E Lou 03-10-2006 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog
In all honesty, I laughed harder than I've laughed at anything regarding MaxiFootball when I read the post over at their forums that had that quote in it. This guy is off the freakin' chain when it comes to UIC. WOWWWWW!!!! :D

The size of the letters, combined with the little finger-wagging smiley, just KILL me. I just had another hurt-my-stomach laugh looking at it again.


F.I.U. FOOTBALL PROGRAM WILL NEVER EVER ACCOMPLISH ANY KIND OF SUCCESS, AGAINST ANY TYPE OF REAL COMPETITION!! MARK MY WORDS-03/11/06!!

spcd 03-10-2006 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddzilla
I hate to play the 'obvious' card, but I'm calling shenanigans. There is NO WAY IN HELL this clown has any sort of job in coaching, mentoring, public speaking, broadcasting, teaching, or any other sort of job that requires the use of the english language, spoken, written, or otherwise.

I refuse to believe that the bar somewhere has been set so low as to see this person gainfully employed, much less a public-facing one.

Small college radio may not exactly set the bar too high, and it looks like he was removed fairly quickly from it in the thread Antmeister posted. There's also the chance that the work he does/has done is exagerrated, or confined to his own language.

He might be partially, or completely crazy, but I don't think he's fake

rkmsuf 03-10-2006 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spcd
Small college radio may not exactly set the bar too high, and it looks like he was removed fairly quickly from it in the thread Antmeister posted. There's also the chance that the work he does/has done is exagerrated, or confined to his own language.

He might be partially, or completely crazy, but I don't think he's fake


heh, you said "might".

Desnudo 03-10-2006 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spcd
He seems to exist prior to MF, so either he's been in deep cover waiting for his moment to strike, or he's real.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-...855868-4716933
http://www.answerbag.com/user/profile.php?id=41150


I think he's real, and not quite as crazy as he sounds, it's amplified by his language problems. Although you have to admire someone who answers a delay-of-game question with

As a former sports talk show host (especializing in FootBall), Intramural FootBall Referee at Florida International University, former youth and high school football player and Coach, yes. They should have had to kick again.


Air Jaws I & II is Awesome, The Shipping and Handling By The Seller BLANKING SUCKS!, November 18, 2005

Air Jaws I & II is most awesome animal footage today, enough said! GREAT WHITES ARE THE GREATEST ANIMALS EVER!

HOWEVER, HURRICANE AND ALL THE PRODUCT SHOULD HAVE ARRIVED BY NOW! HECK< I PAID HIGH PRICE FOR THE S&H, IN THE FIRST-PLACE! THE COST FOR THE S&H WAS WAY TOO HIGH

rkmsuf 03-10-2006 12:10 PM

someone should extend an invite over here to this guy

hours of entertainment there

Desnudo 03-10-2006 12:10 PM

Especializing

Desnudo 03-10-2006 12:12 PM

He and jbmagic should be locked into one thread by Skydog. Whoever is alive at the end of the week gets to leave the thread.

rkmsuf 03-10-2006 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desnudo
He and jbmagic should be locked into one thread by Skydog. Whoever is alive at the end of the week gets to leave the thread.


A steel cage match for the ages.

Desnudo 03-10-2006 12:22 PM

My money would be on jb. I think he's relentless while this guy is blowing a lot of hot air.

rkmsuf 03-10-2006 12:23 PM

He'd question him to death.

rkmsuf 03-10-2006 12:35 PM

dola, what would be really interesting is seeing if someone could impersonate the mental guy over there. HA did a good jb but I think this guy would be tough to do.

Desnudo 03-10-2006 12:36 PM

BLANK!

I smell a challenge.

Antmeister 03-10-2006 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spcd
He seems to exist prior to MF, so either he's been in deep cover waiting for his moment to strike, or he's real.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-...855868-4716933
http://www.answerbag.com/user/profile.php?id=41150


I think he's real, and not quite as crazy as he sounds, it's amplified by his language problems. Although you have to admire someone who answers a delay-of-game question with

As a former sports talk show host (especializing in FootBall), Intramural FootBall Referee at Florida International University, former youth and high school football player and Coach, yes. They should have had to kick again.


Geez....this guy does exist. Here are two more references:

http://www.tech-notes.tv/2004/2004_comments.pdf
http://www.yourspc.com/modules.php?n...out_Box&page=2

FIU must be a great program, because they created the best comedian I have seen.

Antmeister 03-10-2006 01:43 PM

Oh no.....these posts are classic.

First he responds to Jennifer Winter:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1082030

And here he made his version of the Martin Luther King Speech. Of course, he refers to him as MJK
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1083530

DaddyTorgo 03-10-2006 01:47 PM

OH LORD!!! I havn't laughed this hard in a long time. This guy is too much. SD...can we extend him an invite to come over here?? Please Please??

FrogMan 03-10-2006 01:51 PM

okay, HA is gonna say we're trying too hard but damnit, this guy really is too much. His reply to Jennifer Winter was pure gold.

I also like how he keeps writing FootBall with a capital B :D

FM

jbmagic 03-10-2006 01:56 PM

This guy has be HA :)

miked 03-10-2006 02:00 PM

He reminds me of that ninja webpage guy,

Antmeister 03-10-2006 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbmagic
This guy has be HA :)


Sorry, but it doesn't appear to be the case. If you check the references, he already has a history making posts on other sites. But I did originally think it may be HA due to the fact that he went on his "You guys are trying too hard" speech.

Antmeister 03-10-2006 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked
He reminds me of that ninja webpage guy,


Are you talking about the "Ask A Ninja" video podcast?

EagleFan 03-10-2006 02:15 PM

Okay, I tried an arena game and here are some of the results. I coached.


I only got through one quarter as I just couldn't take it anymore.

The score was 38-14 at the end of the 1st quarter. I had 4 touchdowns, 2 field goals and 2 safeties. I just ran random plays basically so I wan't taking advantage of any super plays.

One of the safeties was after the opposing quarterback was tackled on their one yard line (at least that's what the graphics showed).

On three occasions the quarterback was hit and looked to fumble the ball but the game ruled it incomplete. These incomplete passes showed up nowhere in the stats.

On one occasion it was 2nd and 10 for the opponents and they ran a running play that went for a 2 yard loss. A 5 yard penalty was called and was marked off from the end of the run and it became 1st and 7. Are the rules different in Arena ball or is this a bug?

On one play my receiver was heading down the sideline for a would be touchdown with no one around him and suddenly decided to take a sharp right out of bounds at the opponents 5.

I don't know the deal with the graphics but the "safeties" don't seem to respond to anything until about 3 seconds after the snap. In one case they didn't move until my running back was past them.

On other occasions, players have kind of materialized to make a tackle.

There seems to be no net used in this version and kickoffs past the end zone result in a touchback.

My running back had 150 yards in the 1st quarter and I was well on pace for over 1000 yards of offense in the game. I am not familiar with AFL but that seems extreme, even for them. (Plus being on pace to score 152 points)

Antmeister 03-10-2006 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan
Okay, I tried an arena game and here are some of the results. I coached.


I only got through one quarter as I just couldn't take it anymore.

The score was 38-14 at the end of the 1st quarter. I had 4 touchdowns, 2 field goals and 2 safeties. I just ran random plays basically so I wan't taking advantage of any super plays.

One of the safeties was after the opposing quarterback was tackled on their one yard line (at least that's what the graphics showed).

On three occasions the quarterback was hit and looked to fumble the ball but the game ruled it incomplete. These incomplete passes showed up nowhere in the stats.

On one occasion it was 2nd and 10 for the opponents and they ran a running play that went for a 2 yard loss. A 5 yard penalty was called and was marked off from the end of the run and it became 1st and 7. Are the rules different in Arena ball or is this a bug?

On one play my receiver was heading down the sideline for a would be touchdown with no one around him and suddenly decided to take a sharp right out of bounds at the opponents 5.

I don't know the deal with the graphics but the "safeties" don't seem to respond to anything until about 3 seconds after the snap. In one case they didn't move until my running back was past them.

On other occasions, players have kind of materialized to make a tackle.

There seems to be no net used in this version and kickoffs past the end zone result in a touchback.

My running back had 150 yards in the 1st quarter and I was well on pace for over 1000 yards of offense in the game. I am not familiar with AFL but that seems extreme, even for them. (Plus being on pace to score 152 points)



From what I read at the forums, the indoor game is not the AFL and that is why you don't see the nets. And did you download the patch, by the way. Not saying it would improve the game much, but it will be interesting to see what changes were focused on. It really is sad this is going to be pressed to CD pretty soon.

rkmsuf 03-10-2006 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan
Okay, I tried an arena game and here are some of the results. I coached.


I only got through one quarter as I just couldn't take it anymore.

The score was 38-14 at the end of the 1st quarter. I had 4 touchdowns, 2 field goals and 2 safeties. I just ran random plays basically so I wan't taking advantage of any super plays.

One of the safeties was after the opposing quarterback was tackled on their one yard line (at least that's what the graphics showed).

On three occasions the quarterback was hit and looked to fumble the ball but the game ruled it incomplete. These incomplete passes showed up nowhere in the stats.

On one occasion it was 2nd and 10 for the opponents and they ran a running play that went for a 2 yard loss. A 5 yard penalty was called and was marked off from the end of the run and it became 1st and 7. Are the rules different in Arena ball or is this a bug?

On one play my receiver was heading down the sideline for a would be touchdown with no one around him and suddenly decided to take a sharp right out of bounds at the opponents 5.

I don't know the deal with the graphics but the "safeties" don't seem to respond to anything until about 3 seconds after the snap. In one case they didn't move until my running back was past them.

On other occasions, players have kind of materialized to make a tackle.

There seems to be no net used in this version and kickoffs past the end zone result in a touchback.

My running back had 150 yards in the 1st quarter and I was well on pace for over 1000 yards of offense in the game. I am not familiar with AFL but that seems extreme, even for them. (Plus being on pace to score 152 points)


that is funny

FrogMan 03-10-2006 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister71
From what I read at the forums, the indoor game is not the AFL and that is why you don't see the nets.


from what I understand so far...

the indoor game isn't the AFL,
the pro game isn't the NFL,
the college game isn't the NCAA,

AND

the canadian game isn't even the CFL...


FM

bbor 03-10-2006 02:46 PM

Has anyone asked Jennifer Winters why her title was taken away?

DaddyTorgo 03-10-2006 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogMan
from what I understand so far...

the indoor game isn't the AFL,
the pro game isn't the NFL,
the college game isn't the NCAA,

AND

the canadian game isn't even the CFL...


FM

good summary FM

FrogMan 03-10-2006 02:51 PM

nah, forgot to say the most important one:

The FootBall isn't really FootBall...

:D

FM

Dutch 03-10-2006 02:51 PM

That was a beautiful use of Martin Junior King Lr's speech. I didn't realize it was so custahmizahble.

spcd 03-10-2006 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogMan
from what I understand so far...

Yes, it looks like a real winner in terms of customization.

That could all be lived with, and possibly modded if enough people ever got into the game, but the other problems will probably ensure both a small, and quicklu disheartened customer base. The physics engine looks like it's more than dependent on frame rate, given the wildly contradictory problem reports at Matrix, but perhaps the best is this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marauders
I have some defensive plays and a kick return play in a playbook file that is listed in the members area. The kick return is a little too good, but it makes for more fun.

How can you enjoy building plays if a kick-off return can become a money play? You'll never know if you've made a good situational play, called the right play, or the play is too good...........certainly not the experience of football coaches which the game could have simmed.

Desnudo 03-10-2006 02:57 PM

I think Matrix figured out she is not the Queen of all media. I'm not sure who was better at their job, her or her husband.

QuikSand 03-10-2006 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch
That was a beautiful use of Martin Junior King Lr's speech. I didn't realize it was so custahmizahble.


LLOOOVVVVEEEE IT!

Dutch 03-10-2006 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand
LLOOOVVVVEEEE IT!


:)

Antmeister 03-10-2006 04:16 PM

First of all, thank you spcd for pointing out that this guy is legit. I was just reading through the answerbag and I cried in laughter a few times. Amazing! Here is one particular answer that had my stomach in knots:
http://www.answerbag.com/a_view.php/41077

And here is a list of all the questions that he answered. 17 of them were approved and 35 were not. I wonder why? Unfotunately you can only see a portion of his rejected answers, but wow!:
http://www.answerbag.com/user/sub_re...hp?t=a&u=41150

EagleFan 03-10-2006 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch
That was a beautiful use of Martin Junior King Lr's speech. I didn't realize it was so custahmizahble.



You never knew that he was really talking about geeks playing computer games?

For the record Geeks > Nerds. Nerds do Star Trek.


Oh, I love the Howard Stern bit with MLK Jr and Larry from the three stooges with MLK preparing for the speach.

"Well, we went up the mountains on vacation the other week."
"Good, we can work that in."

EagleFan 03-10-2006 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister71
From what I read at the forums, the indoor game is not the AFL and that is why you don't see the nets. And did you download the patch, by the way. Not saying it would improve the game much, but it will be interesting to see what changes were focused on. It really is sad this is going to be pressed to CD pretty soon.



This was with the most recent beta patch that is out.

st.cronin 03-10-2006 04:34 PM

This answer is (useful ¤ somewhat useful ¤ incorrect ¤ offensive/spam)

Mustang 03-10-2006 04:43 PM

*L* Good god.. this guy is comedic gold.


Great White-GWsFBA: This is the best answer, of many great answers that appear around this answer

st.cronin 03-10-2006 04:46 PM

"I cannot give you one-set answer, I cannot even give you one-set of answers"

oh

EagleFan 03-10-2006 04:49 PM

Those damn murdering animals. Can't those lions and tigers just go to Taco Bell if they're hungry?

Rizon 03-10-2006 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

And here he made his version of the Martin Luther King Speech. Of course, he refers to him as MJK
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1083530


Maybe he likes Tool alot.

Bubba Wheels 03-10-2006 06:40 PM

Just so you'll know, if I could have pulled the plug on this by now, I would have...

cartman 03-10-2006 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels
Just so you'll know, if I could have pulled the plug on this by now, I would have...


It wouldn't have mattered. This thread was meant to exist, and would have probably spontaneously created itself in the lack of it's existence.

Bubba Wheels 03-10-2006 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman
It wouldn't have mattered. This thread was meant to exist, and would have probably spontaneously created itself in the lack of it's existence.


If I hadn't designed it, someone else would have had to. ;)

Frank Beckman (WJR Detroit): How did life come from nothing?

Guest (Evolution expert, name long forgotten): Well, think of the lottery with its great odds.

Frank Beckman: Well, someone designed the lottery.

Toddzilla 03-10-2006 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman
It wouldn't have mattered. This thread was meant to exist, and would have probably spontaneously created itself in the lack of it's existence.

Chuck Norris went to post a message on the internet, but he stumbled upon the Maximum Football thread. He has been curled up in the fetal position crying for 3 days now.

Toddzilla 03-10-2006 06:56 PM

There is a corrolary to Godwin's Law, and that is

"As internet threads increase in length, the probabilty that they pale in comparison to the Maximum Football thread remains at 100%"

Toddzilla 03-10-2006 06:57 PM

While Jack Bauer was attempting to track down the terrorists and save the world (again), he stumbled upon the Maximum Football thread.

The terrorists won.

Pumpy Tudors 03-10-2006 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan
On one occasion it was 2nd and 10 for the opponents and they ran a running play that went for a 2 yard loss. A 5 yard penalty was called and was marked off from the end of the run and it became 1st and 7. Are the rules different in Arena ball or is this a bug?

My running back had 150 yards in the 1st quarter and I was well on pace for over 1000 yards of offense in the game. I am not familiar with AFL but that seems extreme, even for them. (Plus being on pace to score 152 points)

To touch on these two points (since I'm the AFL guy around here), the answer to your first comment: It's a bug. As for the second comment, there is no indoor football league in the US that would have a running back with 150 yards in the first quarter. For reference, the league leader in rushing in the AFL last year was Michael Bishop (former Kansas State QB) with 425 yards (to set an AFL record). The leading RB was his Grand Rapids teammate Chris Avery, who only managed 251 yards. These numbers are for the entire season.

Surprise surprise. Maximum Football doesn't model indoor football very well.

dontreadthis 03-10-2006 07:50 PM

I.....I dont understand this thread

FrogMan 03-10-2006 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors
Surprise surprise. Maximum Football doesn't model indoor football very well.


Maximum Football doesn't seem to model anything with "FootBall" in it very well. The beer tents are a whole other thing though. I read that they are incredible...

FM

Bad-example 03-10-2006 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dontreadthis
I.....I dont understand this thread


Who is Don?
What is "this" and why did Don tread it?

Desnudo 03-10-2006 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister71
First of all, thank you spcd for pointing out that this guy is legit. I was just reading through the answerbag and I cried in laughter a few times. Amazing! Here is one particular answer that had my stomach in knots:
http://www.answerbag.com/a_view.php/41077

And here is a list of all the questions that he answered. 17 of them were approved and 35 were not. I wonder why? Unfotunately you can only see a portion of his rejected answers, but wow!:
http://www.answerbag.com/user/sub_re...hp?t=a&u=41150


"As a person who has ushered and asked question of leading experts in the last Animal Rights and Behavioral Studies Conference, at Miami-Dade College, South Florida..."

This guy is a man for all seasons. How do we get him to this board? Why hasn't he been here before?

Desnudo 03-10-2006 08:12 PM

Someone who's registered over there, please invite him to this thread.

Bonegavel 03-10-2006 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desnudo
I'm feeling some Baboonheart there.

Baboonheart is still my fav but this G.rea.tW..h.i.te character is awesome too.

I thought his name (GWsFBAStartOct292006) was the working title for Ron Popeil's next installment of the spray-on-hair.

Bonegavel 03-10-2006 08:26 PM

I don't know why, but constantly seeing football spelled FootBall hurts my head for some reason. This is GWsFBA's about me page from answerbag (this is a straight copy/paste from http://www.answerbag.com/user/profile.php?id=41150)—enjoy:

Quote:

Desire to Reconnect or Connect Deeper With Your Relatives (Sons, Daughters, Father, Mother, Uncles, Grand Parents, Friends or/and Etc.)? Looking to Improve Your Students LEARNING of His or Her School Subjects, Through Educational Extension and Your Facilitation? Do You, Friends &/or Relatives Like Video Game/Computer FootBall? Looking for more from Your Video Game/Computer FootBall? Want to own Your (and Your Friends') Favorite Franchise(s)/Program/Team(s)? Want To Own Your (and Your Friends') Favorite Franchise (S)/Program and/or Team(S) Within More Than One to All 5 of The GWFBA's FootBall Levels (Professional, Semi-Professional, Higher Education, High School or Youth)? Want to Learn More About Football? Want to Own The Franchise(s)/Program/Team(s) You &/or Friend &/or Relative Own, Coach or Play-On? Desire to Own/Operate Your Favorite Franchise(s)/Program/Team(s) With Your Sons, Daughters, Father, Mother, Uncles, Grand Parents, Friends or/and Etc? rnrnThen E-mail To This E-mail Address About Wanting To Join The G.reat W.hite's F.ootB.all A.ssociation: 5-Interconnected Computer FootBall FootBall Levels (From Youth to Professional) (at Miami Multiplayer Centers, Near You), while supplies of Franchise(s)/Program(s)/Team(s) and/or Volunteer Employment Positions and/or Fans of Entire GWFBA or Entire GWFBA’s FootBall Level(s)/Franchise(s)/Program(s)/Team(s) Positions LAST! rnrnYes that is right, Volunteers (Work Hard as GWFBA's Employees, For No Pay From GWFBA, Instead Maybe From Another Organization) can be Place Holder Owners, another words run a Franchise/Program/Team or any amount of the 5-Interconnected Computer FootBall FootBall Levels (From Youth to Professional), of course with protections to prevent cheating-which includes must win 50% of all their Franchise’(s’)/Program’(s’)/Team’(s’) games (per year), until any customer(s) wants to take over ownership of those same Franchise(s)/Program(s)/Team(s) (at any time of first-two-years of the GWFBA Volunteer’s Place Holder Ownership). Place Holder Owners (GWFBA’s Volunteers) must be able to pay the ownership cost (with a 10% employee discount) maintain their work load/performing their responsibilities with GWFBA. rnrnG.reat W.hite's F.ootB.all A.ssociation-Interconnected Computer FootBall Levels Playing Association starts with Owners GWFBA's Information Seminars (One for Each of The Multiplayer Centers that The GWFBA is Played at) Current Starting Dates is Early December, 2006 and Written In Stone The GWFBA's FootBall Levels' Drafts: NAPFBL From Jan. 2nd, 2007 – To Jan. 4th, 2007, WSPFBL From April 29th, 2007 - To May 1st, 2007, NACFBL From Jan. 5th, 2007 - To Jan. 7th, 2007, NAHSFBL From Jan. 8th, 2007 - To Jan. 10th, 2007 and NAYFBL From Jan. 11th, 2007 - To Jan. 13th, 2007. rnrnThen E-mail To This E-mail Address About Wanting To work as an Volunteer (Work Hard as GWFBA's Employee and obviously have fun, For No Pay From GWFBA, Instead Maybe From Another Organization) with The G.reat W.hite's F.ootB.all A.ssociation: 5-Interconnected Computer FootBall FootBall Levels (From Youth to Professional) (at Miami Multiplayer Centers, Near You), while supplies of Franchise(s)/Program(s)/Team(s) LAST!rnrnG.reat W.hite's F.ootB.all A.ssociation-Interconnected Computer FootBall Levels Playing Association GWFBA's Volunteer Information Seminars Two-Current Starting Dates for Volunteers (Work Hard as GWFBA's Employees, For No Pay From GWFBA, Instead Maybe From Another Organization) are First in Early July 2006 and lastly in Late September 2006 (at Each of The Multiplayer Centers that The GWFBA is Played at).rnrnThen E-mail To This E-mail Address About Wanting To be a Fan of GWFBA (is defined as Watching GWFBA’s Minimum Amount of Games and Watching Any Amount Of the Other Activities) and The GWFBA’s Games. The Schedule of Games can be Decided From Selecting From the following List of Options: rnrn*1. The Entire GWFBA Schedule or rnrn2. Entire GWFBA’s FootBall Level(s) Schedule(s) orrnrn3. Entire GWFBA’s FootBall Level’(s’) Super Conference(s) Schedule(s) orrnrn4. Entire GWFBA’s FootBall Level’(s’) Conference Schedule(s) orrnrn5. Entire GWFBA’s FootBall Level’(s’) Division Schedule(s) orrnrn6. Entire GWFBA’s FootBall Level’(s’) Quarter Schedule(s) orrnrn7. Entire Franchise’(s’)/Program’(s’)/Team’(s’) Schedule(s).*rnrnAlso GWFBA’s Fans Watch GWFBA Owners’ Drafting*, The NAPFBL’s Allocation of Players to The WSPFBL’s Franchises*, GWFBA Owners’ Free Agent Signings Announcements*, GWFBA Fantasy Games (Fantasy FootBall, etc)*, GWFBA Voting*, etc* and Being Given First Priority (After 1. GWFBA Owner: Jason ‘Great White’, 2. GWFBA Owners and 3. GWFBA Volunteers and while Supplies Last) to Purchasing Merchandise of the Franchise’(s’)/Program’(s’)/Team’(s’) or entire GWFBA’s Games Signed-Up to Watch thus determines the Amount of Other Activities* they Signed-Up for. rnrnOf course there is a cost to doing so (same as being a GWFBA’s Owner-with discounts available to those who watch more or all games signed-up for and at any time can signed-up for more*) The G.reat W.hite's F.ootB.all A.ssociation: 5-Interconnected Computer FootBall FootBall Levels (From Youth to Professional) (at Miami Multiplayer Centers, Near You), while supplies of Franchise(s)/Program(s)/Team(s) LAST!rnrnG.reat W.hite's F.ootB.all A.ssociation- Interconnected Computer FootBall Levels Playing Association starts with Fans (Coming to The Multiplayer Centers to watch GWFBA's Teams/Games) GWFBA's Information Seminars (One for Each of The Multiplayer Centers that The GWFBA is Played at) Current Starting Dates is Early December, 2006 and Written In Stone The GWFBA's FootBall Levels' Drafts: NAPFBL From Jan. 2nd, 2007 – To Jan. 4th, 2007, WSPFBL From April 29th, 2007 - To May 1st, 2007, NACFBL From Jan. 5th, 2007 - To Jan. 7th, 2007, NAHSFBL From Jan. 8th, 2007 - To Jan. 10th, 2007 and NAYFBL From Jan. 11th, 2007 - To Jan. 13th, 2007.rnrnThe level of play’s difficulty will be determined by how good the owners are, You Face. The Prevention of Changing Franchise(s)/Program(s)/Team(s) (After The First-Change To Franchise’(s’)/Program’(s’)/Team’(s’) happens) Based Solely On Being Able To Only Prove The Level of Difficulty Faced is The Reason for Changing Franchise(s)/Program(s)/Team(s) (After The First-Change To Franchise’(s’)/Program’(s’)/Team’(s’) happens) Challenges You and Your Friends to Give The 110%.rnrnJason 'Great White' Nall-G.reat W.hite's F.ootB.all A.ssociation- Interconnected Computer FootBall Levels Playing Association-Owner.

headtrauma 03-10-2006 10:25 PM

I'd give my left one to hear his radio show.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm...&key=&#1084110

stevew 03-10-2006 10:27 PM

The thread title really needs to be changed to Maximum FootBall???

cartman 03-10-2006 10:31 PM

I don't know why I get the vibe, but I'm thinking our GreatWhite friend is Romanian.

Got nothing to back that up with though. I guess someone can ask him how he feels about Dinamo Bucharest and see what happens from there...

:D

stevew 03-10-2006 10:32 PM

Im thinking spanish or portuguese, merely cause he used the term Especial and his language structure is spanish, i think.

Desnudo 03-10-2006 10:34 PM

I'm thinking crazy, mainly because he's obviously crazy.

cartman 03-10-2006 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew
Im thinking spanish or portuguese, merely cause he used the term Especial and his language structure is spanish, i think.


Romanian is a romance language, and is very close to Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese. One of my co-workers in our Miami office is Romanian, and I could understand most of what he said in Romanian based on my knowledge of Italian.

But that is an indirect link, at best to my suspicions. If he went to FIU, then that points to some sort of Latin influence, unless it is our very own Noop... :D

stevew 03-10-2006 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman
Romanian is a romance language, and is very close to Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese. One of my co-workers in our Miami office is Romanian, and I could understand most of what he said in Romanian based on my knowledge of Italian.

But that is an indirect link, at best to my suspicions. If he went to FIU, then that points to some sort of Latin influence, unless it is our very own Noop... :D


That's interesting. I would have thought Romanian to have a much different language influence. Thanks for the info.

ice4277 03-11-2006 01:29 AM

I think this is the guy from Nigeria who is constantly bothering me to help him make millions of dollars :confused:

Senator 03-11-2006 01:37 PM

The new mod over there wants to ban Baboon Heart. Let's watch.

Antmeister 03-11-2006 01:58 PM

I guess the mod is laying down the law now:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1083920

bbor 03-11-2006 02:56 PM

So...ummm...ya....What exactly did this patch fix?

After playing a couple of games with the 1.092 patch, here are the things that I have observed. I'm playing with the default Canadian league, default Canadian rules, default playbook and league games.

- Kick off returners are no longer catching the ball on the fly, they are letting it bounce at their feet.

- Punters have started taking steriods. All the punts are now between 65 - 75 yards, and the ball is consistently landing at least 10 yards past the returners. Prior to the patch, punt returners would catch most of the punts on the fly.

- Instances of the incomplete/tackle play result have gone way down, but they still occur.

- The clock runs on conversion attempts, shouldn't it be stopped?

- The problem where the kick returner does not pick up the ball, and everyone stands around seems to be restricted to kicks where the ball lands in the endzone. If the ball bounces in the field of play and rolls into the end zone, the play runs normally.

- In the original release, I saw 1 interception in 3 games. With the patch, I have seen 4 interceptions in 2 games, but all 4 were in one game. However, I not yet seen a fumble.

- After a rouge, the team scoring the single point kicks off. Shouldn't the team scored against just scrimmage on the 35?

- The issue where the penalty accept/decline box does not show text for the 'decline' option appears more frequently. It now happens on all penalties, not just the 'Illegal Contact' penalties.

- In both games, there was no second half kick-off. Play continued like any other change between quarters.

- The computer doesn't seem to wait for it's players to finish their motion. The play where this is really noticable is the hitch pass. When I run it, the running backs move all the way to the sideline. When the computer runs it, it snaps the ball when the running backs have only moved a couple of yards, so the play is usually stopped by the defence, or the pass goes incomplete.

- The penalty accept/decline box appears to get confused on plays where the play resulted in a first down. I have seen instances where the box says something like 'accept: 1st and 5 on the xx', where xx is where the play ended, plus the penalty yardage. In those cases, where the penalty yardage is tacked on after the play, the down should be 1st and 10, not 1st and 5. What is interesting is that sometimes when the play resumes, the down is 1st and 10, other times it is the 1st and 5 - I haven't been able to identify a pattern where those occur, however.

- On punts and field goals, the computer takes over and decides when to snap the ball. It does not allow you to run down the clock like on other plays. Is that intentional?

- I use the mouse, and I have yet to get a time-out to work properly. I'm not sure if I'm doing it wrong, or if there is a bug here. When I click the 3rd mouse button while the players are returning and/or in the huddle, I either get no time-out, or I get the "Regina has called a time-out but has none remaining a penalty will be assessed" display. In the first game with the patch, the computer called 3 time-outs in one quarter, and in the second game, the computer called one time-out, and the display said that they had 0 time-outs left. How many time-outs per half are a team allowed in the default Canadian rules?

I've noticed that there are a number of times (this is both before and after the patch), that the post-play commentary does not show up, or it appears and is removed from the screen so rapidly that there is no time to read it. Perhaps this may be related to why I'm not seeing the time-out displays?

albionmoonlight 03-11-2006 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbor
So...ummm...ya....What exactly did this patch fix?

After playing a couple of games with the 1.092 patch, here are the things that I have observed. I'm playing with the default Canadian league, default Canadian rules, default playbook and league games.

- Kick off returners are no longer catching the ball on the fly, they are letting it bounce at their feet.

- Punters have started taking steriods. All the punts are now between 65 - 75 yards, and the ball is consistently landing at least 10 yards past the returners. Prior to the patch, punt returners would catch most of the punts on the fly.

- Instances of the incomplete/tackle play result have gone way down, but they still occur.

- The clock runs on conversion attempts, shouldn't it be stopped?

- The problem where the kick returner does not pick up the ball, and everyone stands around seems to be restricted to kicks where the ball lands in the endzone. If the ball bounces in the field of play and rolls into the end zone, the play runs normally.

- In the original release, I saw 1 interception in 3 games. With the patch, I have seen 4 interceptions in 2 games, but all 4 were in one game. However, I not yet seen a fumble.

- After a rouge, the team scoring the single point kicks off. Shouldn't the team scored against just scrimmage on the 35?

- The issue where the penalty accept/decline box does not show text for the 'decline' option appears more frequently. It now happens on all penalties, not just the 'Illegal Contact' penalties.

- In both games, there was no second half kick-off. Play continued like any other change between quarters.

- The computer doesn't seem to wait for it's players to finish their motion. The play where this is really noticable is the hitch pass. When I run it, the running backs move all the way to the sideline. When the computer runs it, it snaps the ball when the running backs have only moved a couple of yards, so the play is usually stopped by the defence, or the pass goes incomplete.

- The penalty accept/decline box appears to get confused on plays where the play resulted in a first down. I have seen instances where the box says something like 'accept: 1st and 5 on the xx', where xx is where the play ended, plus the penalty yardage. In those cases, where the penalty yardage is tacked on after the play, the down should be 1st and 10, not 1st and 5. What is interesting is that sometimes when the play resumes, the down is 1st and 10, other times it is the 1st and 5 - I haven't been able to identify a pattern where those occur, however.

- On punts and field goals, the computer takes over and decides when to snap the ball. It does not allow you to run down the clock like on other plays. Is that intentional?

- I use the mouse, and I have yet to get a time-out to work properly. I'm not sure if I'm doing it wrong, or if there is a bug here. When I click the 3rd mouse button while the players are returning and/or in the huddle, I either get no time-out, or I get the "Regina has called a time-out but has none remaining a penalty will be assessed" display. In the first game with the patch, the computer called 3 time-outs in one quarter, and in the second game, the computer called one time-out, and the display said that they had 0 time-outs left. How many time-outs per half are a team allowed in the default Canadian rules?

I've noticed that there are a number of times (this is both before and after the patch), that the post-play commentary does not show up, or it appears and is removed from the screen so rapidly that there is no time to read it. Perhaps this may be related to why I'm not seeing the time-out displays?

Don't you get it? The game does not know what "NFL Rules" or "CFL Rules" or "AFL Rules" are. Now stop asking such unfair questions.

cthomer5000 03-11-2006 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight
Don't you get it? The game does not know what "NFL Rules" or "CFL Rules" or "AFL Rules" are. Now stop asking such unfair questions.

Yeah, I love how he acts as if the game is now it's own self-aware entity.

DaddyTorgo 03-11-2006 03:50 PM

so is someone here posting as BaboonHeart? And if so can they PM me and let me in on the joke (since obviously we are being monitored by the Matrix folks)? Or can that person just come clean in this thread?

bbor 03-11-2006 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight
Don't you get it? The game does not know what "NFL Rules" or "CFL Rules" or "AFL Rules" are. Now stop asking such unfair questions.


I feel shame :redface: :D

FrogMan 03-11-2006 04:41 PM

and now, dude with long name doesn't like being called dude with long name :D
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1081975

FM

Easy Mac 03-11-2006 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight
Don't you get it? The game does not know what "NFL Rules" or "CFL Rules" or "AFL Rules" are. Now stop asking such unfair questions.


Wait, it does Australian Rules Football? Fuck Yeah!!

Antmeister 03-11-2006 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desnudo
Someone who's registered over there, please invite him to this thread.


Okay Desnudo, I followed your advice and I sent him a PM yesterday at the Matrix boards. But strangely enough, he sent me a PM here at the FOFC. Apparently he created an account temporarily just to send me this PM:

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.W.'sF.B.A.StartOct.29t
....GW'sFBAStartsOct29th2006

I have no interest in second-rate FOF, plus I just thinking you and maybe others just want me here to have a member to laugh at:cool: , thus I am not going join.

Since, I am either banned or on vacation from Maximum FootBall's Message Boards (everyone's lost) this is the only way I could tell you.

Last activity I am ever going to do at FOF.

However, if you live in South Miami through Key West and want to ever play in a real FootBall Association of leagues, then be looking contact me about joining The G.reat W.hite's F.ootB.all A.ssociation and wait until Oct. '2006 to participate.


So for whatever reason, Matrix felt that he was a troll and/or most likely they thought he may be a member of the FOFC. Well there goes my source of entertainment at the other message board and I was so hoping that I would at least get to hear this radio show. Does anyone get that station that he mentioned at Matrix?

Oh and the other weird thing is that it said his start date was in Dec. 1969. Of course it only says this in the PM since the account no longer exists.

cartman 03-11-2006 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister71
Okay Desnudo, I followed your advice and I sent him a PM yesterday at the Matrix boards. But strangely enough, he sent me a PM here at the FOFC. Apparently he created an account temporarily just to send me this PM:



So for whatever reason, Matrix felt that he was a troll and/or most likely they thought he may be a member of the FOFC. Well there goes my source of entertainment at the other message board and I was so hoping that I would at least get to hear this radio show. Does anyone get that station that he mentioned at Matrix?

Oh and the other weird thing is that it said his start date was in Dec. 1969. Of course it only says this in the PM since the account no longer exists.



Well, that can give SkyDog something to go on to see if it is an alter ego of someone here.

Desnudo 03-11-2006 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antmeister71
Okay Desnudo, I followed your advice and I sent him a PM yesterday at the Matrix boards. But strangely enough, he sent me a PM here at the FOFC. Apparently he created an account temporarily just to send me this PM:



So for whatever reason, Matrix felt that he was a troll and/or most likely they thought he may be a member of the FOFC. Well there goes my source of entertainment at the other message board and I was so hoping that I would at least get to hear this radio show. Does anyone get that station that he mentioned at Matrix?

Oh and the other weird thing is that it said his start date was in Dec. 1969. Of course it only says this in the PM since the account no longer exists.


Well he sussed us out pretty quickly.

st.cronin 03-11-2006 11:27 PM

browsing the archives and found this: http://www.pakin.org/complaint/

which of course led to this:

After hearing Daivd Winters say that the moon is made of green cheese, I felt that someone needed to write a dissenting opinion. To organize my discussion, I suggest that we take one step back in the causal chain and keep his assistants at bay. Why he would even pretend that the ancient Egyptians used psychic powers to build the pyramids is beyond me. To oppose fanaticism, we must oppose vandalism. To oppose opportunism, we must oppose antiheroism. And to oppose Daivd, we must oppose froward, inarticulate spielers. Charlatanism appears to have triumphed. The best example of this, culled from many, would have to be the time he tried to increase people's stress and aggression.

In an atmosphere of false rumors and misinformation, Daivd wonders why everyone hates him. Apparently, he never stopped to think that maybe it's because it is more than a purely historical question to ask, "How did his reign of terror start?" or even the more urgent question, "How might it end?". No, we must ask, "Is his lack of intelligence genetic or the result of too much time spent with batty, mudslinging deviants?" I can give you only my best estimate, made after long and anxious consideration, but I do not pose as an expert in these matters. I can say only that he somehow manages to get away with spreading lies (children don't need as much psychological attentiveness, protection, and obedience training as the treasured household pet), distortions (human beings should be appraised by the number of things and the amount of money they possess instead of by their internal value and achievements), and misplaced idealism (science is merely a tool invented by the current elite to maintain power). However, when I try to respond in kind, I get censored faster than you can say "superserviceableness". If Daivd gets his way, we will soon be engulfed in a Dark Age of plagiarism and indescribable horror. That's why I'm telling you that people tell me that he seems to be expressing an irrational preference for remaining in some previous century while the rest of the world hurtles forward. And the people who tell me this are correct, of course. You shouldn't let him intimidate you. You shouldn't let him push you around. We're the ones who are right, not Daivd.

To put this in context, Daivd likes pronouncements that cause the destruction of human ambition and joy. Could there be a conflict of interest there? If you were to ask me, I'd say that I am not trying to save the world -- I gave up that pursuit a long time ago. But I am trying to summon up the courage to shelter initially unpopular truths from suppression, enabling them to ultimately win out through competition in the marketplace of ideas. Disrespectful, sinful criminal masterminds like him always lie. Even an occasional truth is intended only to cover up a bigger falsification and is therefore, itself, a deliberate untruth. We ought to take up the mantle and stick to the facts and offer only those arguments that can be supported by those facts. That'll make Daivd think once -- I would have said "twice" but I don't see any indication that he has previously given any thought to the matter -- before trying to work hand-in-glove with the most reprehensible chiselers I've ever seen. My eventual goal for this letter is to take off the kid gloves and vent some real anger at Daivd Winters. I'm counting on you for your support.


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