He'll keep deficit spending to make sure he looks good.

I wonder if Melania cleared that herself or if one of her underlings took the "initiative". If latter, I'm assuming the latter will be fired. If former, good sign.

Jon, is your CFA in Athens proper? I would imagine in any area that's heavily skewed toward left-leaning white academia and hippies, the CFA pool of potential employees would be much smaller than normal. I found a marked difference in the CFAs in the Atlanta area that typically fell along those lines. The two I frequented most were the one in Tucker (politically mixed area, the left-leaning population there had a much higher than average population of middle/upper-middle class blacks, a group less likely to "boycott" CFA,) which always ran smoothly, but the one on North Druid Hills across from Adams Stadium (more in the Emory predominately white liberal area) was pretty rough. The high school kids I knew who worked at the Tucker one were all top-25%-of-the-class types. I didn't know anyone who worked at NDH location, but I always got the impression when there that it wasn't the cream of the crop.

It's been totally remodeled (it was closed for months) and re-staffed. It's hit or miss since it is so close to Buford Highway so you get that crowd, and far better service than the drive-through only CFA near Lawrenceville Hwy.

FWIW, most of the drive throughs are complete cluster fucks and I avoid CFA ones at all costs. Usually they split it into two lanes, and invariably one order taker with the ipad moves much quicker than the other. The last time I went, one was standing right near the actual speaker stand and moving slowly, the other was 7 cars deep already, so we had to sit there and wait for like 10-15 minutes as one lane moved and the other didn't. I use the app and just pull in and wait.

To answer Jon's query, I think we are still months from even starting to think about normal. You have to be pretty desperate or dumb to sit inside a restaurant these days, no matter how many servers are wearing masks. There are just so many dumb people out there, and many who just don't want to wear a mask, that the risk is so skewed. I'm enjoying take out and not having to pay $11 for a glass of wine for the lady, or $7 for a beer.

Yeah, I'm not going into a restaurant for the foreseeable future. Easily see it being over a year since the last time we dined in (early March was last time) before I'd consider going into one to sit down and eat. But I will say, I don't exactly love take out given that it's 20-30 minutes back to our house from Lexington, so if we don't eat local or sit in our cars and eat, the food is usually not nearly as good after it sits.

So: ""Justice Alito says pandemic has resulted in ‘unimaginable’ restrictions on individual liberty"


WTF is this guy talking about??

Nobody is forcibly shutting down churches you dumb ass.

Reduced staff, plus a lot of the new designs for fast food buildings require less land (smaller buildings with no dining room, fewer parking spaces).

This is partly the argument that the KY AG and some churches/businesses sued the KY governor over. The KY SC thankfully upheld the govevrnor's emergency order powers given the pandemic.

The end-around, in our GOP-run government (aside from the governor), is to now investigate the governor for illegally using government resources to send police to monitor churches for compliance with the Covid restrictions, under the theory that he is using taxpayer money to violate 1st Amendment rights. It's such a joke.

Churches were "singled out" because they were literally the only businesses refusing to cooperate with the orders. If movie theaters had stayed open, they would have been part of the enforcement operation as well. Yet another variation on the "persecution" theme.

Just heard 10% of the secret service is either positive or quarantined because of trumps rallies.

Yep. I think we all feared this. Unfortunately it has come to pass. Just an utter disregard for the people who are there to protect you.

This has been shown to be a fake, btw.

Press conference coming in a few minutes. I suspect it will be a total nightmare.

At this point, I have to hope he *doesn’t* take questions. Just read a statement about the vaccine and go back inside.

He is so freaking petty. Attacking Governor Cuomo is just...

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

His hair is completely grey.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

He almost said "the next adminstration" https://twitter.com/PodSaveAmerica/s...381834240?s=19

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

This struck me too, this MF has a chance to at least focus on a positive message and goes off on a petty side rant because Cuomo doesn't kiss his ring, basically threatening to withhold the vaccine from the state. What a petulant little child.

I think Trump does just about everything wrong, but I can get behind Operation Warp Speed. It was the right thing to do. Yet his suggesting that other administratios wouldn't have a vaccine for '"three or four years" is just ridiculous. He just can't even do the "right thing" right.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

This article cast a different light dor me on why he is fighting so hard, and mixes in with why he hasn’t released his tax returns. Apologies if this is common knowledge, but not being American nor living in the US, I’m not all over every angle :)

After Presidential Immunity Ends, Trump Faces Legal Battles | Time

yeah.

It is a pretty commonly held belief he is fighting so hard because he is going to be in real hot water with the law and his creditors.

dola- I wonder if the dems best defense against a Trump 2024 run is find a way to get criminal charges to stick.

It also has almost nothing to do with this particular vaccine. This would have been done not a day later regardless. They placed an offer on it and other candidates, like the EU and others did as well. And the same would have been done by any other Administration. That's about it. The support for the developer BionTech (not even mentioned by Trump) to develop it as well as to build up production facilities (in Belgium and Germany) has come from german coffers (and earlier contributions from private and public sources all over, including China ironically), even the distribution is handled by Pfizer itself rather than the OWS designated logistical partner.

Every government has their version of "Operation Warpspeed" or supports someone elses. It's the single most obvious thing to do, support vaccine (and other) efforts in a pandemic. And place orders on those and others as well. Now, OWS might just be awesomely constructed and might well be crucial to other efforts like the Moderna one (having more than one working will be crucial for a variety of reasons) but unique it certainly is not and not responsible for this one.

The achievement here amounts to promising to buy sth that you desperately need and that otherwise would have been bought by someone else (the EU would have gladly paid and taken the US share as well) so made no difference to the seller. He makes it sound like they were the only one willing to pay for it and basically willed this into being.

Which serves just one purpose and it isn't a benevolent one.

Damn, who's posting fake news here?

Unless there are laws on state books barring felons, incarcerated or otherwise, from running for office or holding office, unlikely.

His base would just believe that the charges were a conspiracy and pull the lever for him. Independents would depend on the economy. If McConnell stonewall everything he can to prevent a recovery, you could see a nostalgic "yeah he was a racist asshole but..." effect.

Can't hold rallies if you'rw in jail.

I'm not exactly sure where this should go, but I just wanted someone else to laugh at it with me.

pic.twitter.com/NP2RssFPpi

— Four Seasons Total Manscaping ��️‍���� (@SJGrunewald) November 14, 2020

This isn't for cuervo's benefit since I know I have the honor of being on their ignore list, but this just isn't true. There were cases discussed on these forums earlier in the spring of churches here and there refusing to abide by the restrictions on indoor gatherings, legal actions taken as a result, etc. In California more recently, Grace Community came under fire for violating Gov. Newsom's similar order on that front, and also was sued for unrelated matters in what they claim was an act of government harassment. In many states across the country, restrictions on indoor gatherings did in fact affect churches being able to hold traditional indoor services. Most complied, but for some these orders are considered tantamount to disbanding as they consider such gatherings a nonessential, vital part of their worship that can't be replaced by virtual services. It's no mystery what Alito was referring to here.

This should be higher and was the only thing I noticed during the press conference.

Apparently God wants you to risk getting covid to worship him/her. It is the way.

Or they could have held outdoor services temporarily until the virus got somewhat under control. But no, it was open defiance of lawful orders intended to protect many of its own members or nothing. Just another example of the persecution complex infecting the right.

Did a little post moving to consolidate threads a bit. (NO ONE LOST POSTS!)

Moving forward, let's try this...

"IF TRUMP LOSES IN NOVEMBER...."--Trump's continued fight against the results of the 2020 election, the finalizing of the electoral college, etc. Discussion here should largely end when he either concedes (HA!) or Biden takes office.

"THE BIDEN PRESIDENCY..."--Obviously will be the "moving forward" thread, but I also put the most recent discussion of the Georgia Senate race in there, as it impacts the Biden Presidency tremendously.

"THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY"--If by some miracle the President decides to actually govern--rather than whine and sulk--for the next 2 months, I'd expect this thread to remain active. Yesterday's COVID presser made sense to be in here, and speaking of that....

"COVID 19 POLITICAL DISCUSSION"--Merging that entire thread into the Trump Presidency. Once Biden takes over, COVID-19 political discussion belongs in that thread. There's definitely a place for a non-political COVID-19 discussion, but given the national nature of the response, the political pieces of it fit into discussion of the Presidency.

Good news but wonder how much command & control the old/original AQ have with the newer affiliates in Asia & Africa.

I do think the Syria, Iraq, Israel is in better shape for Biden than what Trump inherited it, arguably Afghanistan also. Iran ... maybe, but that is obviously much more complex.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/14/isra...r-in-iran.html

Ksyrup posted about Lou Dobbs and Maria Whateverhernameis in a locked thread so I couldn't reply there.

I think very few of these people actually believe what they are saying. They know they have a captive audience who eats this shit up and it draws eyeballs to the TV and makes them money. They are marketing plain and simple.

I know I have mentioned this here before but my brother in law met Tucker Carlson at a dinner in 2015 and Carlson told him Trump was a fucking idiot and he couldn't stand him, but when 15 million people a night tune in to hear you lick his balls its easy to set that aside for the almighty dollar.

I'm not even sure the Million Maga March will hit my prediction of a couple of hundred attendees. Almost everyone is ready to move on.

Is that today??

Wait? That's today? I figured this would be like a month from now, around the time electors are chosen - give them time to buy up some supporters, etc. Hell, they'll probably have more counter-protesters than protesters if it's today

SI

I was going to say this in the Covid political thread, but since we aren't allowed to have one for some reason and this is now the covid political thread for some reason, I will say it here so it will get lost in the discussion of Trump:


As the cases gets higher, we are in some real trouble. I see no way we are putting the genie back in the bottle and getting people to stay home again. I am rarely seeing masked used anywhere outside of major chains that enforce employees to wear them. Gas stations, small shops and restaurants, etc. No one is wearing them anymore. As for customers, I see mostly non-whites wearing mask, but hardly any white people. It is like nothing is going on.

Honestly, that's not what I'm seeing in my area. Most people are wearing masks but there are some exceptions. But you are right about exceptions being exclusively white, I don't remember seeing a minority not wearing masks in public areas (even in the BLM protests that my daughter and I went to).

People in NJ still take it very seriously. Rarely do I see someone not with a mask in public.

That being said I agree it is going to be really bad by Christmas. Kids here are still in school full time, but I suspect after winter break we will go to all virtual again. Thanksgiving is going to be the catalyst for massive outbreaks between gatherings and kids coming home from college.

This is Texas, too.

SI

Zombie apocalypse?

MOMENTS AGO: Trump supporters rush to see the president's motorcade driving by. pic.twitter.com/h0brs4gfC0

— The Hill (@thehill) November 14, 2020

imagine how much money you'd make selling maga merch and overpriced bottled water

All that is missing is the huge cliff at the end of their journey. Of course he will now compare himself to the Beatles or something.

"Christianity will go. It will vanish and shrink. I needn't argue about that; I'm right and I'll be proved right. I'm more popular than Jesus now; I don't know which will go first – Trumpism or Christianity. Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. "

SI

I can't imagine being excited by watching Donald Trump drive by in a car.

He’s so excited that he just drove by and went golfing while his cult celebrates a man who could care less about them.

Can you imagine people doing that for Barack Obama?

No doubt. You can't compare Trump to Obama. I wasn't a fan of Obama but I can see how folks would find seeing/meeting him as a life time moment. He has positive US historical significance.

Still a regional phenomenon. In rural Michigan, between 80-90% mask wearing, no discernible difference between ethnic groups; mostly whites around here but not all.

I think it all depends on how bad it gets. It will have to get worse than the spring probably for people to be ok with staying home ... but if it gets bad enough, they will.

In rural GA, there is almost no mask wearing, unless you are in Home Depot or Ingles, even then people wear it to walk through the door and immediately pull it down.

I tried hard on Facebook to convince the cultists that by wearing masks they'd be protecting their freedoms and preserving their capitalism/economy... But 'merica! So now they'll get a lockdown and be up in arms over that when if they'd have worn masks the R factor would've been low enough to nip it. Now they reap what they sow.

But they will never believe it was their fault. They just straight up believe the mask do nothing. You will never convince them otherwise. It is all a big liberal plot until they die of it.

In Kentucky, cases are exploding but honestly, I'm not seeing a ton of difference in mask wearing. Most people wear them, you've got a decent percentage who wear them below the nose, but very few people at big stores go without. Now, your convenience stores, different story. But it's not like that has changed recently. I kinda equate that with what their clientele most likely believes.

I think it's just that everyone is doing more, masked or not.

Rural Wisconsin almost no one wears masks except for the chains, and even then it's not fully enforced. And yet, we're going back to hybrid in two weeks.

I'm with KSyrup on this one more or less. The data on the spread of the virus in states that have been tougher on it and weaker on it is mixed to the point of being inconclusive. We definitely did poorly over the summer, but we're back to the point where the death rate in France, the UK, Spain, Italy, Belgium at least is worse than it is in the US, even though we didn't mitigate as effectively. Masks definitely help but they aren't enough on their own. They were never going to be enough to stop the second wave prior to a vaccine.

Early February or thereabouts is going to be far worse than anything we've seen so far IMO. Next year we'll at least be well on our way to herd immunity, but until then buckle up.

The only thing is, "doing more" includes people hanging out with each other, and NO ONE is wearing masks at those types of get-togethers. In spring/early summer, everyone largely stayed home, so it was mask wearing at the store and then you stayed home. Now people are hanging out watching football, or kids are doing all sorts of extra-curricular activities, etc. And the combination of mask-wearing not being 100% effective + informal gatherings + anti-maskers have all contributed to a sharp increase.

Mask wearing is pretty well supported all over Portland, but that's not much of a surprise. Oregon is instituting a two-week 'pause' closing down dine-in restaurants and bars and limiting gatherings to 6 people, starting Wednesday.

Mask wearing in stores doesn't much matter as such, but it is indicative of a general commitment to adjust.

It's never about one thing anyway.


It'll be 2k+ deaths on average already in early - mid december i'd guess.

Sad as it sounds, it would still be much morse everywhere without plenty of mitigation. This thing could pretty comfortably rip through regions a lot harder/faster. Most countries/regions had it at like R 1,5ish recently in the big ascent, which is still considerably lower as it's been shown to happen without some decent amount of mitigation.

The USs saving grace is the big distances between population centers and in some regions the still warm weather, meaning people still meeting outside. Same reasons reasons, among others, why the flu doesn't do the sort of damage on average it does in western europe (IIRC about 25-40 % less cases estimated and deaths attributed to it per capita compared to most in western/Central europe).

We have to compare Trump to Obama here, whether we like it or not. We cannot ignore there are 70 million people in the USA who voted for Trump. It's not unthinkable that 0.01 percent of those actually adore him and in their perception, Trump meant more to them than Obama did.

And doesn’t it look significantly less ridiculous?

Of course his image dysmorphia will not be able to see that not dying his hair and not painting himself orange make him look more relatable...

Honestly, I think this just means the COVID thread is just going to get more political because stuff like this is more COVID and less Trump

SI

COVID never needed two threads to start with, that’s where confusion started

Well, the 2 big foreign policy news today was (1) Trump exploring a strike on Iran and (2) withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan & Iraq. Not sure all the details on withdrawal but on the strike

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/16/polit...ite/index.html

I do think the Iran will eventually get nukes unless we do something. Unfortunately, not sure we can get back to the previous nuke deal. Iran with nukes is more a threat than crazy kid in the hermit kingdom having nukes.

Trump would be better off spending his last months finding out what SA wants in exchange for normalization with Israel ... that will get him in the history books in a good way.

One of the things I gave him credit for was showing restraint after the Iranian missile strike that followed the US taking out General Soleimani. So, he manages to make sensible play then, now he is ready to launch a strike after something much less. Stable genius indeed, it's almost like he wants the US to be in the worst possible state when Biden becomes President so he can talk shit on Twitter for 4 years. And his hard core supporters still think he is the best thing to happen to America ever, SMH.

No President has done a good job of handling the Iranian situation. Yes, the Obama nuke deal did a good job in delaying nuke status but it didn't do much on the other threats to the US and allies (or frenemies in the region).

Ultimately Iran will get nukes and the question is how and when to deal with it. This takes planning and working with allies vs a willy-nilly, "I'm a sore loser and want to distract myself" strike. Good thing the others talked him out of it.

Oh he did a shitty job overall with Iran, I meant only the fact that he did not retaliate after that missile strike, which would have blown up like a powder keg. Though I am sure someone talked him out of it.

So, um, Lindsay Graham.

I think Iran gets nukes eventually whether we do anything or whether we don't. It's not preventable unless you want to go to war over it, and nobody does.

Just got easily reelected to a 6 year term and is in no danger because the GOP never faces consequences

The elections official in GA, the Republican, I'm sure is just another disgruntled RINO along with anyone else who tries to remain ethical.

I agree. It's how long it can be delayed.

Possibly Israel is willing to do something about it though.

Stuxnet was a brilliant way to extend that timeline more than expected in a non-conventional way.

SI

His record indicates otherwise. Why the fuck is Graham even calling him?

The second one is kind of funny, watching the criticism from the hawkish far left against Trump the dove. Strange days indeed.

I do think the nuclear deal was the best option though. Allow for observers to have free access in exchange for opening up the country. I know during the Cold War, we loved having more access to Communist economies so we could have positive cultural effects.

Not sure who the hawkish far left is, but the lefties I see aren't saying much of anything about it.

Just a couple of questions

Have the conditions been met that the Pentagon set for removing the troops?

Are we going to bring home all the equipment it took 20 years to bring over or are we just going to leave it there for whoever comes in next?

Looks like SA wants to get into the club if Iran develops nukes. Biden and Susan Rice (?) will have their hands full with this mess.

Supposedly this was why Esper was "fired". He didn't feel the conditions had been met while Christopher Miller was on board with the troop withdrawal.

So this just happened.

Sen. Lindsey Graham tells reporters he's also spoken to Secretary of State of Arizona (and Nevada). To normalize the idea of these communications?

Secretary of State of Arizona immediately responds that Graham's statement is false.👇 https://t.co/widIyZYJFP

— Ryan Goodman (@rgoodlaw) November 17, 2020

This is so Trumpesque. "I'm just asking questions, I don't know anything!"

It turns out there was a *witness* to the @LindseyGrahamSC / @GaSecofState call: GA official Gabe Sterling.

He says he can see how the 2 interpreted the call differently, but confirms it did go down path of whether whole counties w/high sig rejection rates could be thrown out

— Josh Lederman (@JoshNBCNews) November 17, 2020

I think the hawkish far left, in this case, are the folks who feel some responsibility for the "you break it, you own it" concept.

I don't get what's going on with Graham. He seemed like one of those old school Senators who would occasionally be part of a "Gang of X" Senator compromise groups or would be a token dissent voice and, most importantly, he knew the score. He knew he was selling a bit of a scam, just as most politicians do (except the scary true believers), but he would do it the way you're supposed to do it. This seems beneath him, especially since he already won re-election. This seems like the type of thing you farm out to some junior senator who, if he gets embroiled in a scandal, oh well - no great loss; just create another one.

SI

Trump almost has to have something of note on Graham, the way he jumps through hoops for his puppet master. I know that is a bad lifetime movie theory, but how else do you explain this outside of Trump has promised to play Kingmaker for him in 2024, which becomes a moot point if Trump runs again.

I think it's as simple as some of these guys have made the calculation that going all-in on Trumpism is going to ride them to the end of their careers. Graham is 65 and just re-elected. He wins once more and he'll be 77 at the end of that term. Maybe he goes for 1 more? The calculus is that polarization is going to become the norm, even after Trump is gone, so better go along with it.

Did you see his Senate debate? He whined about being out-spent and won re-election by 11 points. McConnell laughed his way through his debate without a single substantive response and won by 20 points. They figure they can get through 1 or 2 more elections, easy, just feeding the same BS to the cultists.

GA Secretary of State going all in:

In new intv with me, @GaSecofState says 24,000 GOPs who voted absentee in primary did not vote in General - says Donald Trump cost himself the election by sowing distrust in absentee: "he would have won by 10 thousand votes he actually suppressed, depressed his own voting base"

— Justin Gray (@JustinGrayWSB) November 17, 2020

2,000 troops from Afghanistan and 500 troops from Iraq. I don't think there is a right answer on # of troops, arguments can be made either way.

In the big picture, I'm glad we are reducing troops from those 2 countries.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/17/pent...ghanistan.html

Holy shit! I mean Raffensberger loves to suppress the vote, but don't imply he's incompetent or he's going to go off on you.

That's pretty much how I feel. I certainly don't have any faith in Trump's intent or grasp of military strategy/history (or mine, for that matter), but in this case I'm on board with 'fuck the experts'.

Rockets fired at the US embassy in Iraq.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Well isn't thatconvenient.

Pretty sure that's a crime.

Trump fired the head of cyber security at DHS because he dared say there was no evidence of election fraud.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Seems fairly straightforward why Lil Wayne backed Trump. Much like all of the other greaseballs associated with this administration, he needs a federal pardon.

https://www.eonline.com/ca/news/1209...and-ammunition

It's a fascinating subplot, right?

He did an interview with the NY Time podcast The Daily (or maybe it was with a reporter who then went on the podcast) a year or so ago, and his basic explanation was that he liked being "relevant." As despicable as it sounded, to me, I confess that it did sound coherent -- he's a political actor, and wants to be someone who "makes a difference." When he was running around with McCain, the two of them had influence among the center-right political lane, which matters...and he liked being relevant in that way. His instinct was to follow along with McCain and condemn Trump as the right/wise thing to do.

But then Trump wins, McCain dies, Trump's influence among GOP voters skyrockets...and rank and file Republicans needed to make a choice. Meanwhile, Trump invites Graham out to go golfing... starts asking him for advice on nominations and other stuff (that Trump couldn't care any less about)... and the trap is fully set. Graham sees his path to continued and growing "relevance" lies with becoming an amplifier of Trumpism, and he is all in.

And at this point...how's it working out for him? He is credited as saving the Kavanaugh nomination with his "Y'all want power so bad, I hope you never get it" speech... he gets caught up in an outright lie about the next SCOTUS nom and takes zero flak for it...he gets challenged by a hundred million dollars of liberal money and wins by open lengths... and along the way the party proved that impeachment is not an actual thing that could possibly happen to anyone ever. The GOP is not about "consequences" unless you're a Democrat, in which case they don't even care if there's a pretense for them.

Lindsey Graham can continue to live the life he wants now... he will remain a noteworthy "player" in national politics, he will get whispers as a possible presidential candidate, he will get to enjoy the DC nightlife and the things that might not be as forthcoming were he to become an ex-Senator, and he can take upon unseemly political tasks that the less teflon-laden of his peers just cannot do.

Winner.

This isn't NFL news, so I wasn't sure which thread to put this in. Since Trump is still president for another two months I decided to put it in here.

We have various doctrines pertaining to foreign policy (Monroe, Truman, etc.). Here's the Belichick Doctrine.

Bill Belichick Calls For U.S. To Take Action Against Turkey, Azerbaijan For ‘Unprovoked And Deadly Attacks On Armenians’

This all makes sense in a sad, cynical sort of way.

It also reminds me that the line between actors/athletes and politicians is much thinner than typically portrayed. Most are influence-hungry prima donnas who are rich but not wealthy and take marching orders from those who are.

SI