The huge turning point in this game was the night that Chief bit the dust. And, sadly, there was a moderator error involved in this.

If you look at the role NTN has as Chase Edmunds, he has a player kill option except if the player is Kim Bauer or Ryan Chapelle. He put in his order to target Chief Rum after Chief had posted in the thread that he was Kim Bauer. I forgot the part about him learning Kim's identity and had Kim shot on site. I believe NTN was trying to validate Chief's "reveal" and would likely have voted elsewhere if he had not just shot her in the head in the thread.

Now, we already had an order from NFG the seer to scan Chief so I don't Chief was going to be living much longer.

But the real kicker here for the wolves was the way the lynch of Telle went down shortly after the Chief Rum shooting. That had Henry in the position where he was able to clear five villagers at a time because the wolves (besides Chief) were not on Telle at all. If one wolf had been there, then Henry would have been told "1 out of 5 people that voted for Telle are wolves" .... kind of useless info. Also, the people cleared by Henry were a number of the lower posters, people who had not validated themselves in the thread.

At this point, the wolves were more or less screwed and the game played out that way.

As always, we are interested in feedback about the game. Did you like the ruleset? Did you like your roles? Too much uncertainty or just right? Whatever you feel like sharing, we would love that feedback in order to help create fun games in the future.

Thanks for the game Hoops and BK. I liked the ruleset just fine. The constant clock didn't seem to be too much of a bother to me, but it seemed from a few people they had issues getting in to vote at times because you never necessarily knew when the deadline would be. I don't know if that made the game less enjoyable for them or not. It didn't end up bothering me as much as I thought it would.

I wish I had been less busy so I could have focused more on the game. I felt that I only put in a half-effort because of my availability, but the wolves at least did me a favor and put me out of my misery early :)

Sucks about the error, but I was going to get me those votes for CR anyway!

A couple of other notes:

1.) EagleFan chose the "wolf" path rather than the "villager" path when he went underground on Day 1. He was able to communicate with Thomkal via PM, played to win as a wolf, but counted as a villager in terms of ratio. Sort of a different take on the "cultist" role. It was up to the wolves to determine how much info they wanted to give him.

2.) EagleFan, as a "junior wolf" was given one night kill. It was initially intended to be used in place of an attack by a wolf. But after the Chief Rum screw-up BK and I allowed the wolves to use the EF night kill in tandem with the regular wolf kill.

3.) The wolves could only convert one person in the game - Jackal/"George Mason". So it kind of sucked for them that they planted evidence on him to make him scan as bad. Especially after they had discussed attacking/converting him on their first kill ... I do not think that Jackal was ever a serious conversion candidate in their talks after that point.

4.) If Autumn/"Nina Myers" had been interrogated by Jack instead of The Jackal (with planted evidence) then Nina would not have been broken. In other words, her "cunning" role would have carried her through the interrogation by Jack. The planted evidence, however, did not come into play with Jack's interrogation so Jackal showed up good. This was another pretty bad break for the wolves.

Hoops, a great game. I really enjoyed it even though I have little to no knowledge of the show other than that Jack Bauer is indestructible.

As for the error with CR's death, it's okay, he needed to go.

Oh well... I tried my best ;).

Thanks for a fun first game, y'all.

first off congrats to the good guys! Basically we were screwed when Henry used his power and came up with that list, but we managed a few small victories, like keeping me from being lynched so I could use my last conversion attempt. But now seeing the limits of my conversion power, I have to say I'm disappointed. There seemed to be no way for us wolves to know that only one person could be converted (or was there and I missed it?) and thus it largely made me useless to my team. We tried to convert Alan, Danny and then nfg at the end there. Jackal did you try to let us know you had "sympathies" towards us?

Not happy with the planted evidence on the Jackal not being able to be used with Jack's interrogation power-if we had asked if it would work, would we have been told? We were so psyched when DT chose to interrogate Jackal over Autumn because we thought his being a cunning wolf wouldn't help him there, and then alas it would have. *sigh*

We decided to use Isid's double kill on that first night so we could get it in and then concentrate on my conversion attempts. I strongly advocated we kill Tyrith then because of his play in the Labyrinth and other games and because I think he was already on to Chief Rum if I remember. JAG was an interesting choice for our second kill that night. We were split on him for a while-I didn't want to kill him because I thought he was the last listed foreigner and he was trying to signal us by twice saying Kim Bauer was evil, which of course she was. Needless to say I was half-right, half-wrong. Also up for discussion for that first night kill was nfg...which would have given us the seer and bodyguard on the first night. That would have gone down in Werewolf history. :)

Brightest Moment: Danny coming out with that list that had none of us on it. I was like yeah, let's be Danny's best friend!

Dullest Moment: The late PM sent to Danny-by the traitor Purude Brad that got them Chief Rum and left me in an awkward place after trying to deflect the timing of it. Yes I was the "wolf in the headlights" there. Followed shortly thereafter by Henry's list. My post to my fellow wolves when that came out...We're screwed.

Overall a fun game with the different take on when lynches/night-kills could occur-we didn't really take advantage of that as it turns out and wait to do a night kill rather then when we were told we could kill-we generally just played it like regular WW and sent in a kill. Great job by the mods, the clock, and DT for having to take on all that information and try to sort it out. I was so psyched when we came up with my fake secret service power to tell you it only to find out Tyrith had the same basic power when he died. Oh and good job EF-I knew it was tough talking to just me and not all the wolves and having me relay things back to you. We weren't sure on you for a while there but you could have sold us out so many times there that we finally felt we could trust you. Glad that we did now. :)

And I told you wolves we only needed to attack Jack one more time! :) Would anything have happened game wise if he was killed?

we won?

WOOHOO

So PurdueBrad, just curious why you chose the path you did? We debated back and forth killing you, converting you, or leaving you alone. I think we had pretty much decided to leave you alone when Chief Rum signalled you like that. We weren't going to lose any sleep if you got lynched because we didn't trust you were being completely truthful, but we didn't push for it too much either those first two nights if I remember correctly, though some of us voted for you. I threw out the deviously evil idea of letting you live to the Final Seven, and then killing you so you wouldn't reveal upon getting your victory condition. :devil:

We knew it had to be you that told DT and Danny, so basically you were doomed to die at some point before you could get to your victory.

okay now we've won...i'm happy to answer anything and everything

The other thing to note hoops is that once NFG had seer-scanned CR we would have just had Path duke to him if we hadn't had the votes moved.

And the thing with Henry and everybody on Telle - there was just no way to foresee that was going to happen. Could have happened at any time during the game, was just pure blind luck.

1 - That jerk EF :D

2 - Well that explains that. Makes sense *nods*

3 - Ooof - that's a bad break!

4 - Yowsers, that's an even worse break. FWIW the reason I interrogated Jackal was because he had been quieter lately and if Autumn was good I didn't want to remove a more active poster from the game, whereas if Jackal was good I didn't feel we'd lose any many posts / as much analysis (no offense meant - it worked well to our advantage).

FWIW - I think you did a very good job. You were probably cut some slack due to it being your first game, but you also never really tripped yourself up at all or anything.

You're going to be good at this.

yeah - as soon as I got attacked the first time I shot all of my info off to NFG (that was probably the longest PM in the history of the board BTW...maybe i'll post it here in a bit).

By the time NFG was killed and there was just one of us we had already arrived at the combination of Henry + my's list and everything had been publicly stated.

The one comment I made to Hoops + BK after I was dead is something that I was suprised to not see have happened. Also ended up as a break for the villagers, but after nfg was thrown into prison by King, then got out and claimed Pass was involved and instantly was re-prisoned and then later killed, I was suprised that it did not set off any warning bells for anyone. Especially after Pass was lynched and his power was indeed having something to do with imprisoning people.

The first thought in my head there was that king was busted in a lie on that one and surely someone was going to push him about what occured there. But it never was even mentioned.. by anyone! Now that I know King was a villager and likely telling the truth, I'm suprised none of the wolves pushed that angle any either.

NFG's great villager-scanning combined with Henry's using his power at the right moment were huge.

I think it makes sense that planted evidence wouldn't come up in my interrogation - it's not like it was an investigation...I was torturing the guy. Evidence doesn't really come into play.

NFG's decision to scan Pass right before king used his power was also a great one by him...and kudos to him for getting the info out there along with a decent fake-reveal of his powers so soon after being freed.

yeah - i was surprised somewhat by this as well. it had bumped king up a little on my suspiscion-list, although the fact that nfg came back alive and told us about path and was so quickly tossed BACK into prison to me was an indication that king was most likely good, because i couldn't see wolves having 2 of the same powers like that, and i had 100% trust in NFG.

was a bummer for Thomkal that his fake-reveal to me was pretty much the same as Tyrith's role.

I probably could have pressed that harder earlier to be honest, but after D1 and D2 the idea of lynching based solely on content of reveals wasn't really hugely popular with anyone.

But it all worked out in the end.

Alan and I also had some lengthy PM's this game...but the one to NFG was just...massive

I really liked the touch of villager PM-abilities tied to Danny. Although he couldn't tell me or hint at it or anything, by the way he was able to describe it to me I was able to figure out most likely what it was.

Huge blow to lose him - if we hadn't lost him then NFG maybe lives till the end because he can just PM me that Pass is a wolf.

Although I intended to setup with NFG (and really with everyone) discrete code-words to use in thread (for nfg to indicate a wolf, for path to indicate who to duke to), real life actually intervened and i never got around to devising one.

Funny thing was, when NFG came out with that info, that was actually a huge win for us. Despite my calling out EagleFan, Thomkal still had the vote lead, and since henry had cleared a ton of people (and actually had a scary post where he called out all four of us left). So my death saved Thomkal for a while to get some more conversions, which unfortunately never panned out, I guess.

I can see where on the face of it, henry's power doesn't seem that powerful, but it's probably the kind of thing the wolves should know about. But then again, if the wolves can set it up so that it always gives a response of 1 or 2 out of 7 or 8, it's almost worthless.

I made up for my short time in the game by just typing alot.

I had no idea if DT even believed any of what I said.. usually in almost every game DT doesn't really go with my side of things, so I didn't expect a ton back from him and decided my best approach would be to just lay out what I was doing and be straight with him without pushing any kind of agenda (otherwise he would likely find my vote hopping strange as I constantly was trying to vote for the same guy as him unless it was going to be a vote i just absolutely couldn't get behind).

My gut instincts in this game wern't really that bad, I think the three people I told DT I felt were playing oddly were Chief, nfg and Schmidty.. but I'm not sure that I pushed for him to lynch any of them. Just the three with the way they posted some stuff told me something more was up with them then meets the eyes. We now know Chief was a wolf, nfg was the seer and Schmidty.. well I don't know what I saw in Schmidty that was odd at the time, but perhaps he was just playing a little different then I am used to from him.. I don't know! :)

Ack! Should have listened to Thomkal and hit DT again. FWIW, my last conditional night kill (in case the votes went to EF instead) was DT :D.

Danny's list was the best part. We all wanted to jump on that. Bad luck was not getting a single wolf to vote for Telle when henry used his power. After that, it was downhill.

I actually did believe you Alan...and I liked having the ability to bounce things off of you via PM while you were alive, without trying to reveal too much about what I knew.

Thanks :D. I used the "slack" that was cut to me quite often as I knew I could feign lack of knowledge for a lot of things I was doing.

Wow, this was a really fun game, BK and Hoops, and I very much appreciate the vast amounts of work you guys had to put in. It's a bummer to see the mistake about Chief, we needed to catch a break somewhere, but I think you evened it out nicely. This was my first game as a wolf from the start (I was converted) once before, and though it burned me out it was fun.

To my mind the Conspiracy lost its footing even earlier than that problem with Chief. Our first huge obstacle was that EagleFan had submitted a list of possible wolves to DT that included Chief Rum as the most questionable, before we even started communicating with him. To my mind that put us behind the 8 ball. If we could have given him a list to submit we would have kept the game in our control, but from then on it was damage control.

PurdueBrad betraying us was the other huge problem, and slip-up. We played it wary with him from the start, but Chief signaled to him when he was under fire. That was just an issue of poor wolf communication. I wasn't around much then and at that point from what was said in thread I was 100% sure PB was playing us. I think Chief was trying to keep up with real time events despite his schedule and wasn't aware of that. That cost us a wolf right there, no matter what NTN or NFG did.

I wish now we had hit Jack twice, early-on. I suspected that it would take at least two kills to take him out, but I was afraid it might even be three or more times. By day three we were under the gun and couldn't really afford to lose any night kill attempts.

Part of that was because, as I don't think has been described, the wolf kills were based on how many villager actions had been taken. That meant they came fast and furious on days like the day Chief got shot. But it seemed that as the game went on and there were less villagers, and abilities had been used up, our night kills came slower and slower. I'm interested in how this mechanic worked, mods, as it seemed to be a disadvantage to us as the game crept on, but I'm not sure.

Things could really ahve gone differnetly here if we didn't get behind the 8 ball. I had the evidence to plant, and if we hadn't become the suspects that would have sown some real confusion. I hoped to plant it on someone, use EF or others to get them suspect and scanned. When they were lynched, the seer would have looked suspect and that would help us a lot. Unfortunately by the time I was able to use it we were under the gun.

I really liked Danny's role as well, that was a great idea. It really did help as it outed the seer to us. Did Schmidty ever use his power? We were going to try to convert him as I was really afraid of his (which we knew about), but it seemed like it never came up.

I would say the only flaw in the game was the conversion mechanic. That was a real disadvantage to us, I think. I would say if you combined Jackal's role with an unpublished conversion mechanic (we don't know about it but if we kill him we convert) that would have worked. But to tell us we can convert but give no clue how unlikely that is, that really threw us off. We would have made much different kill targets if we had known we were unlikely to get a conversion. For example I'm sure we would have offed Jack.

Fun game all.

I really pushed to get rid of or convert Alan. It was clear to me he had your ear, DT, and I was deathly afraid of him 'cause I know how good his analysis and gut is.

Alan, you should know that my fellow wolves made me wait to off you since you had been killed early in your last game too, I think. And also, we really thought we had a good chance to convert you when we did end up killing you.

Oh, and by the way PurdueBrad, I think you've earned my day 1 vote from now on

I also want to issue an apology to Telle for getting her lynched. That was the day I was out most of the afternoon and was actually posting from my phone while at a seafood shack on Cape Cod. It seemed from my read of things that there was action towards NFG and I just knew that i absolutely HAD to cut that off...didn't have really the time to go in and check my PM's and everything about people's roles at that point, and I knew what Telle's was because she had been using it to boost my PM ability, so I sort of threw her out there as an alternative name that people could vote for - without really trying to dam her.

As it turned out at least, her death was incredibly beneficial due to Henry's use of his powers at the perfect time. But I'm not sure how much consolation it is to her that her death was a huge part of us being able to pull off the win.

I also want to apologize if I came off as heavy-handed or "pushy" as EF was saying (not sure how much of that was him being evil and how much was truth). I tried to remain really sensitive of it, but at the same time I knew that I had to absolutely bury the seer and conceal them, especially once Tyrith died (although I wasn't sure yet how I was going to clear Tyrith in order to reveal who NFG was to him, or trust him guarding nfg more than once). The times where I was pushy or cut things off or was like that, I did it because either i wanted to keep people away from talking to nfg too much or because i had info from him.

Congratulations to the village. This was a fun one to follow. The Conspiracy looked very strong until Pass got caught and Henry struck gold with his list.

Hoops and BK put together a very fun game. I'm sorry I missed out.

you realize you just let on that you knew more than you let on - you get no more slack mr! :D

I think EF was just trying to save our hide, DT. He volunteered to get pressure off of us and it worked beautifully at times.

When Pass got outed, it's true, we were all virtually high-fiving, as we had been about to lose Thomkal or me. Once Thomkal had used up his kills I then pushed him for the lynch to try to hold out as long as we could. We knew wee were done though as soon as Henry's list was published. We wanted to save face.

No hard feelings, long ago a day 1-3 death was the norm for me, so I got over early deaths way back when.

One note that didn't get into the roles, but had Telle been alive when Danny died there would still have been limited villager PM'ing.

I wanted to find a way to use Schmidty's power (fwiw I still find it hard to believe that both schmidty and kwhit were good with similar powers) but by the time we got around to it (by scanning schmidty) I couldn't think of anything for him to do with it before we lost PM-powers. Not that my "approval" was needed - NTN and henry did their own thing quite effectively, as did king (although his gave me a heart attack and made the game last longer), as did some others.

I hope too many people weren't sitting around waiting for me to issue them orders, but I guess some of that was the nature of the game with people wanting to be sure their actions were not going to harm the village.

guess it was a good thing too, as it sounds like the more powers we used the more kills you guys got.

I also pushed hard for JAG early, he seemed way too on top of things and I was sure he was going to sniff us out. Those early kills were when things went well for us. Other than Chief getting early pressure due to EF's list, we were able to steer the votes between villagers for the most part.

I think given everything that went down you all did just about as well as could be expected honestly.

Kudos.

Once the PMs went down I was afraid he would use his power and therefore exclusively pick up on wolf PMs. Would that not have worked? That could have been deadly.

And yes, it was like magic for us how those first days went, where your role suspcions got villagers in trouble. I think that was just bad luck, as indeed we did have to hide ourselves behind fake roles, and were very afraid of being found out. But since that didn't work for you early on we were able to cast doubt on that approach and go with voting records, which of course didn't mean anything since no wolves had been up.

The biggest reason I was afraid of Chief dying was that I was sure you'd be on to me then, DT, because I had just cribbed his power and passed the results along to you. I was sure you'd notice that they were the same and start pressing me (and at that point I had to either fake it or use our cover identities).


Yeah, I tried to stretch out the lynches with the hopes of getting more than one night kill per day, or at least as quckly as possible. I think BK and Hoops had the formula more balanced than that though. But if you guys had gone all out the first couple of days it would have been a bloodbath I imagine.

I think The Clock played an exceptional game. It was hard for The Clock to follow along for most of the game, but The Clock certainly giggled at times here and there when The Clock saw certain things happen in the game.

The Clock particularly enjoyed Pass, Chief Rum, and Eaglefan.

I felt JAG played a very smart game. His initial PM to DT was really a thing of brilliance laying out why, despite being a terrorist on the show, he was good in the game.

I was proud of getting that vote off of me the other day. If my fake evidence had worked, or you had interrogated me, that would have bought us some time. Not as sweet as getting the seer lynched would have been though :-)

I was having fun trying to get DT lynched too. :D

Sorry DT, I just wanted to try to get a grass routes movement by anyone who may be feeling like you were calling the shots and they had no say (seeing a post by king somewhat along that line got me onto that a bit more).

Once the henry list came out it was pretty much game over unless one of Thom's conversions worked. I was going to do my best to keep him around for that reason.

I was not sure what side to take initially. I went dark on day one after getting the vote hoping it would keep me around another day (a little paranoid after the recent day one runs I have been getting).

I did not know what would be said to the other person who I chose to PM if I went with the government side and I didn;t want to be in the dark about who I was communicating with and end up being played. Because of that I chose conspiracy (didn't know at the time that I would count as village for the totals like a traitor would).

I regretted that move for a while as I was completely in the dark. I sent DT a PM about going dark and why. I kind of stretched the truth saying I would get a list (which was partly true if I chose government) and that it may reveal information.

The problem initally became timing. I was given my PM abouit being able to PM Thom and was online to be in the thread. I was afraid that DT would be suspicious if I didn't send him information after I supposedly would have received it. Because of that I made up a list with my best guesses at that time (figuring if I did get a wolf it may help my standing in the trusted list). I thoguht CR may be a wolf so I listed him as questionable and that Danny was a villager so I listed him as unknown. I actually thought Telle may be a wolf so I threw her in as unknown as well.

When Thom PM'd me he said very little to me but asked for a lot of information. I told him up front what I said in my list to DT. Unfortunately there was little else being sent my way at that time (can't blame them for being cautious).

I invented the seccond underground story because I had no idea yet if I was right about CR or who the others were and didn't want to accidentally pick the wrong person. I figured it would be best to just remove myself until I learned more.

Once henry's list came out I still didn't know who the other wolves were. Thom finally trusted me at that point, probably because they were pretty much screwed, and told me that henry's list was the remaining wolves.

At that point I tried to question his list as much as possible. Unfortunately that is when DT got a little defensive about it and that night erupted. I figured keeping DT on edge a bit may cloud his judgement a little. :devil:

Oh, hoops or BK. Who had to die for me to have a chance at the victory condition?

Oh, I don't know, maybe it was because I couldn't post in the thread until this morning because of the interrogation. :)

Quieter? Wasn't I second in posts in this thread behind you? :p

Yeah, EF, you suffered from the fact that PB had a similar, but differnet role. He had contacted us anonymously and obviously in his case we were right to be much more suspicious. Some of that rubbed off when you contacted us and it took a while for us to be sure you really were a member of the conspiracy now and not playing us.

I figure after the first game, the slack is gone anyways ;).

I was also bummed I didn't get scanned at all. I had tried to be a little suspicious early on, not enough to get lynched but enough to get scanned. That's harder than I thought lol

I asked hoops at the beginning of the game whether it was moderator flavor or a hint that I could be converted, and he said "both?", so I wasn't sure how much impact it would have, and I had no idea if you would be looking for my kind of role or not. So I played the game as a villager, since that's what I was.

And with people slinging credit at each other for playing good games here left and right I'm going to pat myself on the back for being under intense suspicion almost every day and yet every lynch after the first two making the right choice (except for a near messeup on Telle).

dola: that should have read "Major victory" condition. I could have won with the wolves but after Michelle was lynched I earned a major victory condition of seeing the person responsible die.

Based on Alan's post about the lynch votes I thought he was involved in teh extra vote and that was tied in. I was asking Thom to have the wolves go after you that night but I guess they had already decided that anyway. Unfortunately I didn't get the PM saying the person was killed so I guess it wasn't you.

PB, did you have only the win condition of being one of the final 6 or did you actually win with the village? The answer to this may affect my day one voting pattern.

Sorry about that wolves, if I had any idea this was the case I may have tried to drop a hint but after that first day I was just trying to stay alive.

Good game BK and hoops. The game mechanisms worked out very well.

And you guys kept voting for me. :p

Towards the end you were one of the only people on the untrusted list that wasn't a wolf, lol, you were all I had to go at.

Yeah, you didn't really have a choice, but early on with Thom and Pass and those votes, when they stuck on me that one day I was pretty sure both of them were wolves. I had a feeling you were a wolf but I didn't want to press it, certainly didn't realize you were the cunning.

Ooof - brilliant point on Schmidty's power. Neither of us thought of that apparently.

I think I was onto something with CR's power being unable to be verified, and tyrith's being unable to be reliably verified, and i also had isiddiqui on the list of "hard to verify, could be wolf even if verified". i could have pushed harder on thomkal early after tyrith's death also based on his role, but it seemed like something best left till later in case he was telling us the truth and it netted us a wolf.

I was so frigging swamped with information that I didn't even notice you'd just cribbed Chief's powers Autumn, to be honest. Surprised nobody else pointed it out actually. But you were still suspect in my book because I knew something was up with EagleFan and 2/3 of the names you delivered to me early in the game were EF and CR. I also see now how your information stopped coming when CR died, although I attributed that at the time to other things, and frankly it was never a huge source of info or clearing anybody for me, so I didn't really press on it.

I never saw any of the night kill discussion but assume they never went after you because you were always under the gun. :)

So was James Heller not in the game? Part of my role revolved around that player, but my role did not indicate if I knew Heller would be good or bad and I figured that I did not want to tie myself to an unknown in PMs to anyone.. so I did not mention his name once to anyone.

It does not look like he was played by anyone, so was he on the list of names given to the wolves at the start? It might have been an interesting reveal after I died and my role was revealed if one of the wolves had claimed to be Heller.

yeah - i didn't mention that. Kudos to JAG for his initial PM, and I honestly never really thought he was a bad guy. His role could have been very powerful, but a) he didn't last long enuf to use it, and b) he selected only villagers with it (IIRC) so he said (and i agreed) to hold off on "activating it" until we knew those people's allegience

Pretty funny, since you kept bitching and moaning about all these villagers going after you.

idk - call it perception.

glad to see you survived the interrogation.

Actually when I was bitching and moaning it was Danny who was leading the charge against me, so I feel justified.

Yeah I'm glad my interrogation sealed the win. I sure wanted to post some things in the past 36 hours but the village was gonna win either way, I figured there was at least one more wolf left though.

My original plan was to keep myself somewhat under the gun so that I could try and have a 1 vs 1 vote with a wolf later in the game and then use my ability - but I quickly realized that using my ability would gain me very little trust, since DT had long before said that it was an ability that could be proven in the thread but in no way cleared me, which is the truth.

So what kind of evidence did you plant on me? Victor Drazen's passport or something?

Sometimes pressing people reveals information. After that episode with you I felt it unlikely you were a wolf and became suspicious of Thomkal for his quick move onto you after my analysis which helped set the second lynch candidate early. I said I wanted to vote Thomkal when I got back later though it was too late for that movement. Then after the CR stuff I was sure he was a wolf.

If I hadn't pressed you so hard, it's possible I put my vote somewhere else before I leave and never come back on. I then never get PB's PM and the push for Chief never happens, he doesn't die, who knows what happens with Telle and whether Henry learns that information, ad we lose the game! So really, you being under fire set in motion the chain of events which won the villagers the game!

Huzza!

I didn't think I went over the top too much with my complaints about being targeted, sorry if it discouraged people.

I think one of us was pretending to be James Heller, actually.

Something in your computer. The Victor Drazen stuff I just made up in an attempt to get you interrogated. Unfortunately it turned into a lynch runoff instead, which was not what I had hoped for. Either way it was a last minute ploy and clearly did not work.

So, did knowing extra roles that weren't in the game help you?

Before the game started I thought that was important for the wolves but after realizing that knowing character names meant nothing, was it necessary? I think that kind of mechanic is only necessary when some or most roles are revealed pre-game.

I think I saw the question three times. My goal, or at least plan, was to lay low for the first three days (two of which I was driving for) and then when I started to draw some attention, then I was going to contact the wolves about cutting a deal. However, when I came under immediate pressure, I was desperate for help. I knew at that point, I was basically screwed and wasn't sure that the wolves had the juice to move the lynch. I then talked to EF and DT I believe, laying out my exact role. The one thing I offered DT was the possibility of finding a wolf for him later (as an attempt to extend the game as we approached endgame so I could try and extend it to six).

My move to alert DT (and then ultimately Danny) about CR was with this purpose: I was going to stay on Telle, just as I had been signalled to do. I was hoping that it would be played off that someone's power told them that CR was a wolf and he would get lynched and turn up wolf, thus earning me trust with the wolves as I did what I said AND with the village as Danny and DT would know that I got them a wolf. I figured that moment was my ticket to end game depending on how it went down.

Danny did a great job of garnering votes but I figured I was screwed from the "I got a PM from someone about..." moment.

So my overall goal was to play both sides in making this happen. I didn't quite anticipate the run that the village was able to put together afterwards, particularly when Henry was able to put together that no wolves voted for Telle. That basically cut out a HUGE number of uncleared players.

Anyway, I understand day 1 votes from here on out as I did try to play both sides. I really felt that dropping CR's name would get me the trust of the village AND I had hoped it would pass under the wolves radar that it was me and it was perhaps someone else. That would've been perfect for getting me through. Well done seeing through it wolves.

nah...i don't think you were over the top

Thanks DT. And good job with Jack, I know people were doubting you at many turns (both villagers with noble intentions and wolves with evil ones), but you handled the role very well.

It was definitely necessary. Three of the five of us were from the list of TV villains. My character was a mole in the show and I was the cunning. So basically we would have been easy to pick out if you went by the characters, I don't think things were as random as the rules suggested ( or as random as I tried to therefore suggest they must be, in self defense). I was afraid I would get heat for admitting to my character, but no one paid attention.

It was good to have the roles not in the game, therefore, but it was difficult making up powers that were believable yet hard to verify.

PB - I think the wolves took a big chance trusting you, and frankly I'm pretty surprised that they did. I always find it hard as a wolf to trust a neutral player. Probably some primal human thing about wolves being dangerous I suppose. I don't think what you did was anything horrific - you had your own win conditions and played for them all along. I knew that since the first PM that you sent me.

My decision to trust you that early was probably the only time that I ever really trusted anyone that hadn't been scanned by NFG or interrogated by me. And I wasn't fully sure of your intentions up until you delivered Chief Rum. At that point I elevated you on my trust list and thought "okay he pans out...makes no sense for a wolf to give us another wolf at this juncture (especially as that stuff started playing out), and resolved to try to get you along to your victory condition -- with the caveat as i noted that if we were looking for wolves in the CoT you should be our first suspect.

Yeah, that comment from Danny did make it obvious to us. I was absolutely sure even before you did that though that you were playing us, as I think Danny and DT had dropped hints about talking to you, and I knew you must have struck a deal with both sides.

Well done, though, I would have done the same in your case. I still may vote for you day one though :-)

Autumn, completely understand, that was a tough role to play, particularly given the bad luck of the D1/D2 lynch efforts.

WEll ,up to that point we had not trusted him with anything. He had originally asked for the names of two wolves. Instead we just gave him a code to identify himself and told him we may do the same if we ever want him to get his vote off of us. I didn't think it was safe to use that though, better he not have anything on us.

What about me :)

I was alive

If it helps at all, I did feel completely terrible watching Danny have to go through that with no better defense then "I got it in a PM". I bombarded Hoops and BK for a good half hour because I had to tell somebody that I am a horrible person.

Yeah that's why I didn't send you any more PM's after the first one-didn't want to push you on my power after seeing Tyrith's.

I wonder if at that point we should have had Chief come out, or EF, and say, "Yeah, I know, from PB. He's working with our side too. I wonder what story he gave you ... "

That's who ISiddiqui revealed as.

would have been amusing to say the least. might have bought chief another day.

i think one thing PB did that hasn't been discussed yet was to suggest to me to look after he dropped the code-phrase in the thread and see who moved their votes off of him then, suggesting that there might be wolves there.

i'm not sure, but CR might have been on that list of people too. and i know briand was, which was why he got interrogated.

major props to brian for using his power to cut the time of my interrogation-recharging in half after i used it on him no less.

i was only able to use it every 72 hours...that seemed like a long time as the pace of the game started to pick up, so it was great to get it back in time to use it on jackal and thus catch autumn

Which is why we tried to convert Alan:devil:

hoops and BK, thanks for the game. I had a good time.

DT had a rough role and I think he handled it very well. Obviously Jack Bauer is going to be the clearinghouse of information and I think he did a good job in the three areas that counted most: being skeptical about what people were telling him, being circumspect in thread with his info and not bowing down to pressure when we missed a couple early.

henry was the star with using his power when he did. That is a totally improbable outcome and changed the game right there.

For my part, since I had a dual duke/hunter role I wanted to lay low early and let the seer/Jack/whoever find a wolf or two for me to toss the vote to. I had no idea that once I used the power it would have been presented without confirming it was me -- I would have never revealed in thread if that were the case, because being semi-trusted was perfect for lasting a long time -- catch a vote or two maybe along the way which would discourage me as a night kill target but still not be in real danger of getting lynched.

Looking over the rules, I do think that the conversion angle was a really tough one for the Conspiracy, but as has been mentioned henry blew the game open with his power and that's just a great break for the U S of A.

Thanks again.

Frighteningly here is the list I sent to DT between D1 and D2:

Jack Bauer, if I had to guess, based on the movement yesterday, here is my list of suspcious play for what it is worth. IF I am lynched today and you officially see my role, then maybe it'll give you something to go off of.

I think BrianD is a wolf, Telle is likely one too (and I think Brian is hiding his vote on her knowing that nobody has any reason to follow him there). After that, in order, my suspicions are:

Autumn
Chief Rum
Issquiddi

DT, I had completely forgotten about that and FUCK I wish I had been a villager, I would be very proud of that list with 3/5 right there.

yah...kudos to Henry and NFG. NFG's info led to us being able to verify henry as being cleared and also confirm his list for the skeptics. And henry's using his power when he did really took a lot of the pressure off my back to have to drive people away from lynching those in the CoT without being too detailed about who they were and why they were there (and thus making them night-kill/conversion targets)

that list was awesome in hindsight. it led to me interrogating brian (he was my fallback guy for who was getting all my info if NFG died by the way), and moved CR up a notch on my suspicious list. it's also probably what led me to put telle out there as a lynch candidate

i will go thru at lunch in an hour and post notable PM's

As being a victim of a day 1 night kill after being away from WW for a while, I always sympthasize with those who go out early in the previous couple games plus the mod from the previous game if he/she is playing in the next one-and Jackal was brought up as one of our N1 kills, which would have really sucked given what we know now. If we have information on that person or we believe they may know something about us wolves that's another story. I just don't like voting out someone early again if we have no information on them, even if it means letting a good player like Alan live a little longer. I'm just too much of a softie to be a good wolf I guess. :D

Ah I see, thanks for the explanation. I do think I should have been given a little more info on the type of conversion I could do then. The way I read it, we had a chance of converting anyone, just depended on the person and a die roll probably.

ftr, i have now been right about you 3 times in a row.

for my part, i owe the village an apology for not being able to give this game nearly the attention it deserved...last week at work was brutal for me and i didnt have the time during the day to keep up.

i tried to be more active this week, but by the time i had the time to dive in, we were already in fish-in-a-barrel mode and i wasnt really much of anything but the cheerleader for the plan.

that said, i didnt really feel like i was needed...my role never came into play (i could change the vote of a CTU agent or Computer Analyst every 24 hours) because there were never any close votes or reveals of character names for me to even know who to adjust.

DT was the bus driver and for most of the week, i just felt like i was along for the ride (not saying you were pushy, just that you were the one with all the info, so the logical thing to do was to take cues from you)

I think the Jack role might have been a little bit too powerful because of the open PM thing..if we had the open PM ability but didnt know who Jack was right away and that he was 100% a good guy, it would have made the role less of a "god position"

overall, i think it was a fun game...the variable deadline was a little bit annoying, since I always try to be on at the lynch...i dont think i made one the entire game.

thanks hoops and BK, even if hoops didnt keep his promise to me.

I think the PB thing is that it could appear that he was only playing the wolves. He seemed to turn in the information fairly quickly and that set the whole game ending chain of events in motion.

Maybe if he waits another day or so before giving up the information he looks a little better in their (our) eyes.

Maybe if clap stays in the game a little longer it changes the complexion of the game (there must be good odds that he makes that typo at some point :eek: ;) ). j/k


As for game feedback:

- Not a big fan of the mass PM mechanic. I like games playing out more in thread.

- Not a big fan of powers that could swing the game because of one event (the henry power). I know it's all up to chance but there is still a chance that something like that happens and in this case the wolves get punished for having a vote go perfectly for them (a villager lynched without them voting for the person).

+ I liked the role I was given, just wish that I had waited another day or two to make the decision to go underground and for which side. Granted I like traitor roles, at least when knowing something about the wolves.

+ The game was handled very well by the mods, quick responses to questions, good atmosphere.

+ I like the varied types of roles and powers given out. It can be fun when everyone has a chance to do something. Very good change of pace type of game. I would like to see how something like this plays out without the mass PM ability.