You might be hard pressed to find a GM who would take Rondo over Westbrook. Westbrook still hasn't come into his own, possesses a freak level of atheticism and plays defense. Then again, I think Westbrook is closer to an Arenas type of player then one like Rondo.

And I'm a homer :)

White Chocolate had a solid return to the NBA after taking a year off, 4-5 shooting (3-4 on threes), 15 points, 5 assists. Orlando cruised to a win over the Sixers 120-106, they were up 33 after the third quarter.

WTF

Nets lost?

They were up 13 in the 4th quarter.

Couldn't stop the Timberwolves' point guard from driving to the basket. Wolves ended the game on a 23-6 run.

0-2 for the Lebrons...when does Mike Brown get the axe? :)

14 points, 7 assists, 4 steals. Not a bad debut for Curry.

and the Warriors allowed the Rockets to score 108 points. Propably the only Rockets win of the season allowing 100+ ;) Rockets had a huge 3rd quarter, Scola was amazing there. If that guy were a bit more physichally gifted he´d be a superstar, as it is he´s just one of the most technically sound Post Players. A joy to watch him play :)
Ariza was very prolific. Yeah, 6 TOs and 9-21 but 25/5/5 still sounds kinda good. Chase Birdinger with a very solid game and don´t get me started on the marvel that is Chuck Hayes ... And aaron Brooks had 12 assists, the apocalypse is near :eek:

Curry can play, period.

Cleveland looses again, Bargnani with the type of game shooting bigs will have against them ... 28 points on 11-15.

Suns win @ the Clippers, Nash with 15 in the 4th and the gamewinner :)

Knicks lost bad, bright spot in a way was a pretty terrific shooting display by Gallinari who went 7-13 from 3. Rest of the team was 3-26 (yeah, they shot 39 triples)

Orlando and San Antonio are deep, deep teams.

The Warriors are awful. If they win 30 games I'll count it as a blessing. Curry looks like a pretty good player. He has confidence and ability. Too bad Nellie insists on playing Corey Maggette. If only he could learn not to shoot.

they weren´t that bad imo. It´s not like the rockets are a 20 win team or anything. Yeah, people think that seeing the lineup but they will be much better than that. Dunno about the playoffs, but they won´t be far back and will be tough to beat.
Fun team, will win a lot of people over with their play.

From Kelly Dwyer over at yahoo´s ball don´t lie blog :


agree about magette though ... And Monta Ellis just won´t be the solution going forward. Yeah, he can play. But he can´t shoot the 3 and isn´t a good playmaker which combined just isn´t exactly screaming "franchise player" for a 6´3 Guard.

Two straight losses, and the internet is all abuzz about Lebron bailing. :)

Couldn't wait til the season finished, could they?

On potential.


I realize that most people think that. I think this is pretty much it. But, even granting your premise that he has not come into his own, right now what does he do better than Rondo?

The W's suck but the young players are still fun to watch. I won't consider going to a game or buying team merchandise until they get a real owner/gm/coach but the good broadcasters and young talent make them a decent option for my tv sports fix when the Sharks aren't playing.

I guess on top of this I'd add, why is it assumed Rondo has stopped progressing?

Being a homer here for a second, but it's something I've been consistent with even before the Nuggets traded for him. . . how in the hell was Ty Lawson the 18th pick in the draft?

I don't understand what scouts feel his major weakness is. He can hit the 15 footer. He's fast as hell. He's 195 pounds so he can take some punishment. He simply doesn't turn the ball over. He's developing his three point shot.

Last night the Nuggets/Jazz game was close until Ty took it over in the late third/early fourth quarter. 26 minutes, 7-13 from the floor, 17 points, 6 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 steal, 1 turnover.

This guy is going to make a lot of GM's feel really, really stupid in the coming years. (again, for those just joining, I said he was the best PG in the draft before the draft. This isn't me going insane because of one game)

The question was about Rondo vs. other PG's in 2-3 years. If it was today, we could throw guys like Nash back into the discussion.

Did you see Blair's line last night? How in the hell did ANY team in the 2nd round pass on this guy? I understand taking the cautious approach in round 1 (although seriously, you'll throw millions at the Brian Scalabrines of the league but not take a chance at guaranteeing late first round money on Blair?) but why on earth would you pass in round 2?

As for Lawson I think his biggest downsides are that he's 5'11 and that he can't shoot the outside shot. He can work on the latter but how does he check a 6'3 PG like Derrick Rose? I didn't see the 2nd half of the game last night - how much of his damage came with Deron Williams in the game? 17 points against Deron Williams is one thing - its another against Ronnie Price. Regardless I think Lawson is certainly NBA ready - I don't know how much upside he has but he's certainly playing well so far this offseason and now in the first game. I'd be curious to see how he played if he was starting for Minnesota or Golden State.

Freaking this. I was wondering this on draft night. Blair put up fantastic numbers in college against legit competition. Why not take a shot on him? I know he has no ACLs in either knee, but he didn't miss a game in college. And of course the team that drafts him is probably the best run team in the league.

Regarding the Warriors, it's the same old story. That third quarter was hideous. Jackson and Maggete killed them in the third. Jackson with his "dribble in place for 6 seconds then launch it" routine and his "drive into two defenders and throw it towards the basket, then act shocked when no foul is called", and Maggette with his constant shooting when he's clearly ice cold. Maggette is at his best when he's driving to the hoop and getting to the line. He did none of that last night.

I also don't understand why Randolph only got 9 minutes. I know his back has been bothering him, but he looked great while he was out there. Completely energized the team. He had something like 8 points, 4 boards, and a block in his 9 minutes. I don't even know why I bother trying to figure out Nellie. There's no point, just like there's no point to the moves he makes.

My hope going forward is for Cleveland to keep going 1 on 5 and losing, LeBron getting rightly upset/frustrated, and the Warriors being able to dump Jackson on a panicking Ferry without having to take back numerous terrible contracts.

This could happen...except the Warriors are run about as well as the Cavs so they'll undoubtedly get saddled with something horrible in return :)

What Nelson does with that team is a damn shame but he seems to get his kicks by screwing with the lineup every freaking game and nobody seems to be of the mindset to put a stop to it.

Eh, I'd take Jackson for like West and Boobie. It's actually kind of hard to make a trade for a guy like Jackson cause there's a very limited number of players that could be traded for him(and work under the cap).

I watched the first three quarters of the Raps-Cavs game... The Cavs could be in trouble with their big men if they play in the inside too much (or don't move around). Bargnani killed them in the first quarter.

I'll be there tonight in Chicago for the game vs the Spurs. Looking forward to seeing how the team comes out.

Yep, that contract KILLED his value. He'd be an expiring contract this year, which would have made him extremely desirable. Now, thanks to Robert Rowell handing him an extension behind EVERYONE'S back, he's practically unmovable. Rumor was teams would only take him if the Warriors took back numerous bad contracts AND included their 1st round pick in 2010...unprotected.

Warriors basketball: It's a great time out!

I agree with you on Blair. I still have no idea why everyone passed him up and he got to the Spurs. I know the knee injury was serious, but my God can that guy play. (remember, in the fantasy league I drafted both guys in the rookie draft)

Ty keyed a huge run in the late 3rd, early 4th with Deron on the bench. He went something like 3-6 for 6 points after Deron came back in the game. (along with a couple of pretty passes that ended up drawing fouls)

I understand the 5'11'' thing, but there are plenty of ways to counteract a short player. For example, Deron had 4 points, 3 assists in the fourth quarter last night. The reason: Denver put Afflalo on him.

I think Ty has major league upside. I'll predict right now that he'll have multiple all-star games in his future. His shot is underrated, he keeps care of the ball, he's fast as lightning and he works hard.

Keep in mind another thing Blair was cut down for was his size. He's a 6'7" power forward without a lot of range. His bulk makes up for some of that (265 pounds), his talent and game take care of a majority of it and a good coach will take care of the rest.

Ty is 195 pounds. Paul (175), Rose (190), Rondo (171), Westbrook (187) are PG's who are lighter. He's as strong as most of the guys I listed and faster than every one of them save Paul. I know size matters in the NBA. But watch a game this guy plays in and tell me he plays to that size.

(OK, so now he'll go 1-10 against Portland with 9 of his shots blocked and be torched repeatedly on defense. I'll be here for the laughter) :)

Lawson was always projected as a late first which surprised me, though I guess size played a big part in that. Still if my team had the #10 pick on draft day and Brandon Jennings and Lawson were both available, I'd have preferred Lawson back then, though Jennings looks like he can play as well.

As for Blair, that's just one of those idiotic things that happens nearly every draft. I look at the last 15 picks in the first round, and there aren't many guys I'd prefer to have on my roster than Blair, even before he started looking fantastic in preseason/regular season games.

Lawson shot 47% from 3 in his last season at Carolina. He wouldn't really generate his own outside shot but defenders could not sag off him or he'd kill them from 3, and once the defense moved up tight on him so he wouldn't get open looks, he was quickest player on the court in every game he played in college IMO and could burn anyone going to the basket.

I hope he can extend the range out to the NBA line so he can do the same there, I *really* want to see him succeed.

Defense. I also think he's a better scorer

I was under the impression that Rondo was one of the best-if not the best-defensive PGs in the league. A cursory look at Basketball Reference has Rondo third in the entire league last year in defensive win shares. Plus there was the survey of all 30 GMs that has Rondo being rated as one of the best in the league.

I'm not as well versed in the sabermetric stats of basketball as I am in baseball, but this article was interesting:

hxxp://celticshub.com/2009/10/07/notes-on-gm-survey-is-rondo-in-danger-of-being-overrated/

I agree that Westbrook is the better pure scorer, however.

I don't know what the stats say, but I know Westbrook is either well-regarded defensively or regarded as having the potential to develop into a top notch defensive player. It was just college, but Westbrook was very good on defense at UCLA.

All that said, yeah, I have consistently heard about how good Rondo is on defense, and I think it's going to take a little bit for Westbrook to catch him (if he ever does).

Westbrook is definitely a much better scorer and shooter, though, as mentioned, and that's now (as he develops further, he will probably far outpace Rondo in that respect).

I think defense is extremely hard to accurately quantify for the NBA, and especially at the point guard position. It'll be interesting to see these stats develop and evolve over the coming years.

Agree 100% there. My problem is the complexity of said stats usually outstrips my willingess to pay them any attention.

Rondo is an excellent distributor and defender (I know at least one of the ESPN predictions - Chris Sheridan - picked him for defensive player of the year... I know, I know). The only problem with him is he can ONLY score on penetration, so the defense sags in front of him and gums up the works for everybody else.

contract talks between the celts and rondo are apparently not actually dead yet

Unless you're the Bobcats and you decide to try and press him up and down the court. :banghead:

I thought there was some rule, where a restricted free agent and his team had to work out a deal by the start of the season, or that was it--no extension can be signed until the summer.

I know that was the way it was with Bynum last year.

Pretty sure the deadline is October 31st this year.

Ah, that might be the same as last year. Last year the season began either right on Halloween or a day before it or something like that. I think I probably got the deadline mixed up with being attached to the start of the season, not a specific date.

The Bulls with a pretty impressive team effort against the Spurs this year. I've been worried about Rose's ankle but he had a solid 13/7/7 in 32 minutes.

Made no sense to me either. I mean even if he only can play a year or two, you're still getting a guy who can give you a good 15 minutes a night for the league minimum.

Was at the game and have to say I was impressed. Not with the offense, but the defense. I know people were worried about us losing Gordon, but the loss actually dramatically improved their defense.

Rose didn't look like himself and seemed winded. That'll change as he gets back into game shape. Deng was real solid. Was really impressed by Taj Gibson too at times. I think he can give us some real solid minutes off the bench. He's real aggressive. I know we caught San Antonio on back-to-back nights, but the defense still really seemed to be on top of things and didn't give San Antonio many easy buckets.

I was surprised Johnson didn't get any minutes tonight for the Bulls.

He wasn't impressive in preseason. Seems real raw and a project. Has the physical skills though. I guess at that spot in the draft it's mostly projects and marginal NBA players. I still would have liked to have seen them take a guy who can give them 10-15 minutes a night off the bench considering they are a year or two from contending.

Lawson and Blair both had average games. The Blazer put in a huge backcourt and Lawson got abused by Fernandez. (a guy he just shouldn't have been D'ing up on. Why he wasn't on Dre is beyond me)

I know it's only one game, but the Blazers look like there is something wrong with them. They really lacked fire. Miller looked like a horrible fit. Oden looked like a reserve big, not a #1 overall pick in the draft. Aldridge was simply shut down by Kenyon Martin. (who has put up two excellent defensive efforts so far this year.)

They had everything they wanted last night. They had the team they wanted to beat get into town late because of a snow storm. The Nuggets were without JR Smith due to the suspension. The Blazers were home and rested. The Nuggets played like garbage for most of the night and had one offensive rebound through the first 44 minutes of the game.

I really, really hope the Nuggets use make a deal for another serviceable big before the deadline. if they get a little more size inside, I think they have the pieces to make another deep run. Carmelo looks like he's going to put together a serious MVP run too.

I think what wrong with the Blazers, and Oden, is the 5 shots Oden took. When they did get him the ball on the block, he makes a simple drop step, and there is nothing the Nuggets could do.

Problem is, that happened twice. Twice

Meanwhile, LaMarcus Aldridge took 15 jump shots. Roy, 16.

Just crazy.

This team is way too concerned about "getting theirs." They won't be a threat at all.

Great start for the Nuggets, beating the two teams supposed to challenge for their division in the first two games.

No question. On the other side of it, if you make a quick double on Oden, he looks lost. (see the 7 turnovers he made against Houston)

I think the Aldridge contract will be the one that hurts them long term. He's a nice player. He's not worth the money they paid him. He's also one of the softest big men in the league.

They still have a ton of talent and on any given night they can beat anyone, but I actually am a little more nervous about OKC then them. Not only for the future, but for this year.

Oden may never figure out how to handle double teams. But, he won't learn by watching Roy and Aldridge hoist jump shots before he touches the ball. Aldridge is especially galling - if you had not mentioned it here, there would be no way of knowing from last night's game he was, in fact, a big man.

Well, Portland did actually challenge for the division last year, in fact tying Denver for the championship, and losing nothing. They were 31 games better than OKC last year. Not sure they have lost enough nor that OKC has improved enough to close that large a gap. OKC has probably improved, but not by 31 games, and I don't expect Portland to be significantly worse.

Over/under on when Nate McMillian gets run? 30 games?

I don't understand how some of these franchises operate in terms of cash. You wait years to get out from under bad deals, draft well, make smart trades, free up some cash....and then dump it on whoever is left standing to take it. If Andre Miller was the missing piece then he should have been handed the PG job the day he arrived and Blake should have been told that he's a hard-nosed player who will make an excellent reserve on our now championship contending team. Instead they piss Miller off. Then since Roy got his money (which he damn well should have) they felt they had to give Aldridge his too. Why? Is there suddenly a shortage of 6-11 big men who can't even average 8 rebounds a game?

What's truly amazing is the enormous sums of money some of these teams (Portland, Detroit) dumped on players when their own team didn't even make a serious (or in some cases any) effort to bring them back. They didn't even want anything for these guys. Hell Milwaukee didn't even want the option to match Charlie V's contract. No sign and trades - just take them. Yes I know the economy played *some* role in that but yet teams are still willing to lock up average to good players for the long term now for way more money than they are worth to not lose that asset for nothing in free agency.

Troy mentioned OKC - Sam Presti knows how to do it. What big time free agent did they overpay this summer to not fit in with their team? That's right - nobody. I would not be surprised to see them as a playoff team this year and one that can make some noise in the next 2-3 years and they did it through the draft and trading for and signing players that can fit their needs with reasonable salaries.

good points samdari.

I know how good Portland was last year. I thought they had a real chance to be something special this year. Tons of cap room, young stars, etc.

Then I watched their first two games. They don't look coherent at all. As you noted, they are playing selfishly. They had a horrible preseason. They've looked disinterested in two home games to open up the year.

I really, really don't like what I'm seeing out of them. If they don't get it together, I think they'll be 8-10 games worse than last year. (no, I'm not joking) Maybe OKC can't make up all of that ground, but they have a better constructed team in my opinion.

Maybe I'm judging too harshly after some preseson games and a couple regular season ones. The question I have though: If they look this poor at home, what makes you think they can go on the road and beat ANYONE right now?

We'll see if my doom and gloom is right. @Houston tomorrow, @OKC on Sunday.

I think that's the problem you run into when a team doesn't have a heirarchy on the court. You have a lot of real good players and no superstars. It can sometimes work on veteran teams but rarely on young ones.

We are 1-2 games into the season folks ... Miller playing 30 minutes off the bench imo is a good idea. Yeah, if he doesn´t buy into it that´s an issue, but just because some media try to find a story here means it is actually true and will prevent him from playing good ball ?
Of course he was disapointed that he was not getting the starting job, why wouldn´t he ? Doesn´t mean he won´t do a good job in his role later on in the season and then in April/May and maybe June.

They were very harmonic last year but got exposed when there was no one but Roy and maybe Aldridge able to create anything. That´s why they brought in Miller (and are looking to expand Fernandez ballhandling-duties) and if Roy isn´t accepting playing off the ball for stretches i call "Idiot" (and from some of his interviews it seems that way unfortunately) because he saw damn well against Houston last season what happens when he´s the only one handling the ball.

If Roy doesn´t buy into it, then getting Miller won´t turn out to be a good move. But then it´s Roy to blame as well.

Of course he loves plaiyng with Blake, a guy giving him the ball with 20 on the shotclock, who then goes out of the way and waits for the kickout. But that doesn´t mean it´s what best for the team ...

Look at the Celtics, allowing a non-shooting PG to handle the ball and give the stars a break and good looks and easy baskets in the process. What´s not to like in having a good PG instead of a "shoots the 3 and goes out of the way" guy ?

That´s one of the big gripes i have about the NBA, the stars inability to consider playing off the ball and on the other hand everyone expecting guys growing up being stars in College to suddenly stand in the corner all game and wait for a kick out every 1 in 10 trips up the court.

That´s what i love about teams like the Rockets and Coaches like Adelmann, even with Yao they got everybody touches (even to a fault) and are mixing things up.

but i´m propably just babbling ...


EDIT : As for the money situation : Paul Allen. Yeah, it´s not fair but he´s there. I mean, if you are willing to pay the money it´s not really an issue wether you are going to be simply over the cap or over the cap by a lot.
So for them keeping Aldridge for more money rather than finding a replacement for less actually makes sense. Plus, they aren´t exactly in dire need of rebounding from the 4 spot with Oden and Przybilla being like the best rebounding tandem at either frontcourt position in the league.
I mean, they were the No1 rebounding team last year (+5.4) and outrebounded both the Rockets (by 18) and the Nuggets (by 8) handily so far .