This is another example of why MAGA likely dies with Trump. No one else has the political savvy to walk the tightrope of keeping MAGA engaged and not completely turning off everyone else.

I'm sure she thought the dog story would play well with the anti-woke crowd and show she can make "tough decisions". Instead it probably destroyed any political ambitions outside of South Dakota instantly.

You could see it with "MUGA" (protesting the help to the Ukraine against the Russian Aggresion), where MTG thought it was some kind of mega-own, and it turned to "Hey, let's do just that"

I think that's a fair possibility. The actual branding I mean, yeah I've never bought into that for a second. We're waaaaay too far gone for me to believe any return to greatness is realistic, slowing the swirl down the bowl is the ceiling.

But I'll give a thought that might ought to be consider by those who have serious issue with Trump: what comes next could make Trump look like the relative soft touch that he is.

Not sure how to get Burn It To The Ground And Start Over into a handy acronym

She won't stop drawing attention to herself. Just aj insane crash and burn from a politician over a short span.

Lol. Yikes pic.twitter.com/xLGKzfWbxn

— Acyn (@Acyn) May 5, 2024

That interview is one of the biggest political disasters of an interview I've seen. She not only doubles down on shooting her dog, but suggests Biden's dog should be shot as well. Then continues to insist she's been to North Korea, but apparently doesn't understand there's a difference between North and South Korea and that the DMZ isn't North Korea? I have no idea what she's doing here.

She being Trump-ian. Never admit a mistake. Double down, and whatever you do, never let it go. If you lie vehemently constantly with conviction, the MAGA cultist will eat it up.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

This is another one of those occasional moments where I agree with you.

Yeah, agreed 100% with Jon. Trump's laziness and chaotic nature probably tempered some of the more virulent ideas his right-wing hangers-on had more than anything that anyone else did. Imagine someone with a work ethic in his spot.

And before you say that someone like that won't win an election the way that Trump did - the GOP has already done a bunch of work to effectively remove the franchise from the general public in a number of states, including swing ones.

The problem they will always have is that fascists are weird and normal people view them as weird. It's an incredibly tough barrier to get over. DeSantis built up all this popular support and then ran a national campaign around inspecting your child's genitals and antagonizing the most beloved brand in the world. Noem is going on national TV talking about how she wants to kill more dogs. Gaetz is on the House floor showing off child porn to his colleagues. And we spent like 3 years with people obsessed with showing me Hunter Biden's dick. Sorry, but that shit is just weird.

Trump is an exception for a number of reasons. He's incredibly media savvy due to decades of playing the media game in New York. He's charismatic and actually funny. An incredibly rare thing to find from a politician. And he pulled the wool off the whole system showing it's just a sham. Your leaders aren't sophisticated people, they're mostly dull failkids who couldn't make it in the private sector.

And he can pull off the whole thing because he doesn't actually care about the policies of the right. It's why he was so unsuccessful as President. He'd get on to something, get bored with it, and move on. He'd be dressed as Che talking about redistribution of wealth if he thought it would make him wealthy and get him adulation.

Maybe someday there will be a hardcore fascist who takes the country by storm. But Trump is a very unique figure and we're seeing how off-putting it is when people try to emulate him. Also how unpopular that approach is to the general public if you don't have an insane amount of charisma.

I've said this before, but I don't think Trump is funny, and I don't think he is that charismatic. Certainly not moreso than the average politician. I don't even think he is that media savvy. He's done a number of particularly dumb things in the media.

On the that stuff is just weird, sure a lot of it is. But Trump is like that as well. Remember the republican primary debates where people were talking about hairpieces and the relative size of their ... anatomy ... and all the humiliating interruptions of Biden in the non-debate debates, and wanting to abolish the Department of Environmental, and mocking disabled people, and ...

I mean you could go on and on. Trump has not been in any way less bizarre, he's been moreso. What he's been successful at is getting people to not care compared to his style and him being against the 'right people'.

And there's a whole heck of a lot of weird stuff coming from the left also. That's part of the balance. There's a lot of 'yeah Trump is ridiculous, but compared to what those guys are saying? Yeah I'll take Trump'.

It's often harder to see it when it's something you agree with. It's easy to underestimate what in a more polite time used to be called political correctness actually looks and sounds like to the kinds of people who vote Trump.

Trump is the funniest President we've ever had. I'm sorry. How many time have we posted videos here and laughed our ass off at it? Wasn't it just a couple weeks ago where he talked about the Civil War?

Remember him asking the kid if he believed in Santa still? Dumping the fish food in the koi pond? Shooting paper towels into the crowd of people in need? Not to mention all the funny nicknames he had for politicians. Just using his cadence and some of his famous expressions is fun to do with people.

It might be unintentionally funny, but it's still funny.

Your funny is many people’s sad


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't engage with this thread much and will probably forget to check this, but, I must say, stuff like this really confuses me. Life seems really good to me here in America. I don't know what time in history we would like to go back to, when we could call people r*tards or f*ggots? When people smoked cigarettes inside? When there was lead poisoning everywhere? When we didn't even know about climate change? When the ozone was being destroyed? When there were no bicycle lanes and public transit was abysmal? When we weren't actively investigating our water supply? When women and people of color were second-class citizens?

I have no clue what people are hoping for with their so-called "return to greatness".

Just Posted: Robert F. Kennedy Jr. says there is a dead worm in his brain. “The doctor believed that the abnormality seen on his scans ‘was caused by a worm that got into my brain and ate a portion of it and then died,’ Mr. Kennedy said in the deposition.” https://t.co/dr4kb5GwyN

— Susanne Craig (@susannecraig) May 8, 2024

Kennedy just openly courting the MAGA vote now :-)

Y'know I just watched a fascinating youtube video on parallel universes due to black holes. I really want to know if this is the worst timeline or is there something even worse out there.

I mean, that's essentially it. My right to be a prick is more important than your right to exist.

As I said in the Biden thread, Republicanism/Conservatism is "Why should others have it better than me?".

The "good old days" that many on the right think of were times of high taxes (especially corporate), strong unions, strong social programs, and other remnants of the New Deal. Not exactly right wing positions today. Also all things Reagan worked to dismantle.

Of course we also had black people without rights, women with limited rights, and hatred toward Asians.

I guess more people went to church, but that's a discussion for another thread and something churches should be looking inwardly and question rather than blaming the people not showing up.

These parts are surprising:
"Some 34% blame Hamas, while 19% blame Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, 12% blame the Israeli people and 12% blame Biden."
"A large majority (81%) of students support holding protesters accountable, agreeing with the notion that those whodestroyed property or vandalized or illegally occupied buildings should be held responsible by their university, per the survey.

• A majority also said they oppose the protest tactics: 67% say occupying campus buildings is unacceptable and 58% say it's not acceptable to refuse a university's order to disperse.
• Another 90% said blocking pro-Israel students from parts of campus is unacceptable."

But this is less surprising:
"A majority of people (58%) who participated in or favored protests against Israel said they would not consider being friends with someone who has marched for Israel.

• Meanwhile, 64% of those who participated in a pro-Israel protest said they would still be friends with someone who has marched against Israel."

If you follow social media, you would think it would be like 70% blaming Isreal and Biden. That always seem to be the problem with social media, they are an echo chamber for the same opinions, but rarely reflect what most people actually feel.

This is not the only study showing the same thing. There was a study done by Harvard that pretty much showed the same results.

You can see a pretty extensive poll here. Biden's positions are incredibly unpopular within his own party.

https://www.filesforprogress.org/dat..._crosstabs.pdf

Remember that Biden won a bunch of important states by slim margins. A slight shift in youth turnout or Arab voters (especially in Michigan) could cost him the election.

They seem fine with the strategy of losing those voters and more inclined to lure Nikki Haley voters to their side. We'll see in November if the strategy works. I certainly wouldn't put my political career in the hands of whatever Israel demands and hoping there are a lot of impassioned Haley voters ready to run out to the ballot box.

Isn't the calculus there that those voters are going to be similar to Haley voters on the GOP side - maybe you lose some and gain some of hers, but when the rubber meets the road, they are far more likely to return to their defaults? What are the Arab voters going to do - vote for Trump/GOP, protector of Muslims?! Or are a mass of GOPers who are still so dialed into the party that they are still registered Republicans really going to vote for *gasp* a Democrat?

At least on the Israel/Hamas issue, I think Biden's campaign is simply looking at the alternatives. Who truly represents the Hamas side in this country? I'm guessing conventional wisdom is most of what we're seeing on both sides is protest vote in primaries and come back to the party in November. And maybe Biden's gamble/analysis is that the net effect of both is maybe they can draw more Haley supporters than they lose Hamas supporters.

Speaking of which, just yesterday, Haley got 22% in Indiana and it doesn't appear there was some surge of Dems voting in the GOP primary.

The polls are are going to flip and people will go nuts when they start adding a likely voter screen. Trump leads with registered voters, but his strongest support comes from people without much of a voting history. A lot of these folks are probably auto-registered and have never bothered to affirmatively use the franchise. Maybe he'll get a bunch of them to finally turn out, but I'd rather be counting on known voters.

There are no Hamas supporters. There are anti-genocide protesters. I'm guessing Arab voters will just sit out. If the choice is to vote for the racist guy genociding their people or the racist guy who will probably do the same thing, what's the point?

I think a lot of people will come back during the actual election. But I also know that Democrats seem terrified of the dissent. You don't ban a popular app and storm college campuses unless you're terrified of your genocide getting more attention. Those are the actions of people who are scared of their position.

The TikTok ban is a Dem-only position? That's news to me.

Hasn't China commited genocide of the Uyghurs? Why don't young people want Tik Tok banned to stop supporting genocide? They also don't say anything about Russia committing genocide in Ukraine.

Are our tax dollars going to those? Are we making it illegal to speak out against those things in this country?

eh....

There has been a huge rise of antisemitism virtually everywhere. Perhaps these people aren't pro hamas per say, but they are definitely anti Israel.

When they are chanting from the river to the sea is there really a difference?

So even on on his days off, Trump is not doing any campaign events. He’s doing fundraisers. Does that matter in 2024? Does a candidate going to a swing state and giving a speech about how great they are and how much their opponent sucks actually move any needles in an age of saturated media?

Is it that, or is it his lawyers not allowing him to go off on rants that could create issues while on trial?

Would he even listen to his lawyers? Now that he controls the entire party's purse strings, does he even need to do much?

No there hasn't been. You're equating criticism of Israel with criticism of Judaism. One is a sovereign country and the other is a religion.

From the river to the sea is a zionist phrase. It's literally part of the ruling party's charter. Netanyahu uses it in speeches all the time. So is it OK to use if your skin is lighter or you have a different religion? Trying to figure out the difference here.

Just saying ...

Ladies and gentleman todays GOP

You either die a Kennedy with a hole in the brain or live long enough to become a Kennedy with a hole in the brain.

— Rep. Mike Collins (@RepMikeCollins) May 8, 2024

That's pretty close to as low as you can get.

Someone needs the taste slapped out of their mouth. How bad would this guy rant, rave and cry, if a similar joke was made about a colleague's family who went through a tragedy. I dumped toxic twitter, but I hope people are roasting him.

This is what Trump has normalized. It's why I want to pull my hair out when people say "mean tweets"

Yet, these are the same people that are somehow completely appalled by the tiniest of things.

He would definitely call you a snowflake

Looks like the Democratic Convention might be shifting to a sort of hybrid-online event instead of just an in-person event.

Just a moment...

When you don’t vote or decide to lodge a protest by voting third party, sometimes that comes with consequences you should have foreseen but didn’t intend. https://t.co/5yWCMTugEr

— Ron Filipkowski (@RonFilipkowski) May 11, 2024

Big drop of NYT polls out today. Trump dominating Presidential polls, Dems dominating Senate polls.

The surprise was Rosen ahead of Brown in Nevada. That was seen as a really tough race for Dems but it seems like the Republican candidate is doing his best to sabotage his chances.

I don't think these results are that surprising since they seem to align with what we'd intuitively would think be the case.

Just a moment...

I'd be shocked if there's that many ticket splitters. I don't know what to think about these polls. It's probably just too early to take them seriously. Nevada by 12 would make it more red than Iowa or South Carolina.

Nevada (and Arizona) are seeing a huge demographic shift toward younger Hispanic populations. They make up like 30% in Nevada. The Hispanic vote has shifted dramatically toward the GOP in recent cycles and it appears to be continuing to trend that direction.

It's why Biden is down so much in Arizona too. Most people figured those states were lost causes for someone like Biden this time around. The only reason the Democrat is doing so well in the Senate race is because the Republican decided to support a plan to store nuclear waste in the state and it is not going over well.

Question for the 'it's too early for polls' group; when do you think we should start taking them seriously, or is the answer to that 'never, we'll see how people vote'?

The strategy seems to be ignoring the polls and convincing themselves everything will be fine. We'll see in November if they were right or fucked up another election.

2016 and 2020 presidential polls were historically inaccurate and several pollsters have openly talked about how they have changed their methods and altered their models for Trump voters, and this election in particular, all of which makes me less confident in their results, not more...especially in contrast to the down ballot polls. None of which is meant to excuse Democrats poor strategy/messaging.

The 2022 polls were incredibly accurate.

Who was elected President?

In 2016 and 2020 polling, especially at the state level, was pretty bad. Trump seems to be a wildcard no one knows how to account for in polling.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/04/why-...-changing.html

Along with weighting, pollsters are paying more attention to survey respondents they used to discount.

“Some people will start a poll, they’ll tell you who they’re going to vote for and then they say, ‘I’m done. I don’t want to talk to you anymore. Goodbye,’” Don Levy, director of the Siena College Research Institute, which helps conduct polls for the New York Times, told CNBC. “In 2020 and 2022, we didn’t count those people.”

But this time around, Levy says they are counting the “drop-offs.”
They found that if they had counted those impatient respondents in 2020 and 2022, their poll results would have moved “about a point and a quarter in the Trump direction,” Levy said, eliminating roughly 40% of their error.

Levy added that SCRI is also taking an extra step to target Trump voters by modeling their sample to include a higher survey quota for people who are considered “high-probability Trump voters in rural areas.”

“If you think of them as M&Ms, let’s say the Trump M&M vote is red,” Levy said. “We have a few extra red M&Ms in the jar.”


.
.
.



Seems like whatever you thought of previous polling accuracy doesn't even matter, because they've attempted to course-correct this election and these 2024 presidential polls don't necessarily correspond to previous polling methods (or even to any other election's polls).

The folks who fucked up the math in 2016 and 2020, have done some reactionary math, the results of which are entirely out-of-whack with down-ballot polling? Why shouldn't I question that?

So a statewide poll for Senate is good but President is not? Dems are performing pretty well in the polls in Senate races so this doesn't appear to be a Republican tilt. Just an incredibly unpopular President polling like an incredibly unpopular Presodent does.

Congrats to Dems on finding their Trump to drag down the ticket.

I personally think it will tighten and likely come down to whether Biden can sneak out a win in Michigan despite his troubles in the state. With two unpopular candidates, it comes down to turnout from the base.

But man, I'm blown away with how confident Biden supporters are with his plan and that these polls are off. Maybe they have some inside information we don't have but I'd be panicking and looking to change up strategy if I was them. Especially when democracy or whatever they claim is at stake.

Yes. That's not exactly a new or shocking revelation & practically any article about polling inaccuracies is particular to Trump voters and presidential elections, not Republican voters and/or state elections.

That being said, it certainly doesn't mean I think Joe Biden is leading in polls/popularity/future votes, I just don't have any belief in polling accuracy at this point.

So when they ask a person which Senator they will vote for, it's correct. When they ask that same person which President they vote for, it's wrong.

I don't think it's as bad as those polls look but this is a unique explanation. I can't fathom the stuff we will see if Biden loses. Blew our wad in 2016 over the Russians so maybe the Chinese can be the new villian for why the shitty candidate lost to Trump.

All I ask is that I don't have to sit through 4 years of complaints over voting machines being rigged by Italians or whatever.

Of course it's not that simple. They could be using an entirely different model for Presidential polling for all that you or I know. Here's what I do know once again:


1. Presidential polling was historically bad for the last 2 presidential elections
2. Those folks who fucked up the polling for those last 2 elections have course-corrected their Presidential polling models
3. The Presidential polling results are entirely out-of-whack with the down-ballot polling results


I am absolutely not going to tell you that means Joe Biden isn't losing or isn't a horrible candidate, but you can't tell me those facts aren't remarkable.

The NYT poll is still relying on a lot of voters who didn't vote in 2020 coming out in 2024. Maybe that will happen, but there's reason to be skeptical.

There's no way Trump is up 13 in Nevada and then only 1 nationwide.

Vegas is a traditionally blue bulwark, but I'm seeing a *lot* of support shifting Trump's way, and Republicans making inroads here spells doom for Biden's chances in Nevada, since this state is a big blue southern dot and red everywhere else.

He's not going to lose by 13 points but he's not going to win Nevada. Demographics have shifted. Hispanic voters have soured on him and it's a young state which is now a liability for Biden. Same goes for Arizona.

They might be delusional enough to think they can win these states but his best shot is Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. Wisconsin and Pennsylvania seem very winnable (I think he wins Pennsylvania), but I have no idea how he's going to turn the tide around in Michigan.

A lot has changed in just over 4 years.

Trump doesn’t get the basics. He thinks his tariffs are being paid by China. Any freshman econ student could tell you that the American people are paying his tariffs.

The cashiers at Target see what’s going on – they know more about economics than Trump. #TeamJoe

— Joe Biden (@JoeBiden) June 11, 2019

The sad thing is that this election shouldn't even be close for an incumbent based on historical factors. If this was Joe Biden eight years ago, it would not be close right now. Unfortunately, the opposition hammering away at his frailty and feebleness has taken hold with a lot of voters. If he ends up losing this election, it's going to be because of that.

I think Obama would get 400 electoral votes in this election. The fact the Dems keep having close races with Trump is a sign of just how bad the party is. Whether that's intentional or not is another story.

I wonder if the democrats would be in a better position right now if Biden had announced in 2022 that he would not be seeking another term. Perhaps a viable candidate like Gavin Newsome would have emerged, putting them in a better chance of holding the White House. Harris could be problematic. She's seen as an "empty suit" by a lot of voters, and not just by Trump's MAGAts.

I think that was the initial plan. Have Biden be a bridge to a new candidate in 2024 due to his age. But as we've seen with the Dems, the old guard really hates giving up power. Often at the expense of their base.

Just a moment...

They absolutely should have gone with a younger candidate instead they went with Biden and their strategy is that when push comes to shove and people are in that booth they just can't stomach 4 more years of Trump.

I don't think it will work and we're going to end up with Trump.

They need to message to the Arab community Trump would be worse. Just this weekend he said he would arrest campus protesters. He will obviously side with Bibi.

Who is this mysterious they? Presumably people ran polls and fond out they couldn't win. Dean wasted a shit ton of money to learn the same thing. For better or worse Dem voters picked Biden not some cabal of party elites.

Biden is already doing this. They have identical stances on Israel. Better off focusing on an issue they differ on.

If Trump wins I can't wait for a repeat of some variation of 2016 where dems that didn't vote blame the dems that did vote for Trump winning.

I remember it more as people being angry at Jill Stein voters and blaming Russia. Any excuse besides we picked a dogshit candidate.

You must have missed the entire election cycle because it was crying about Bernie not winning, Bernie bros sitting out November saying there's not much difference between Hillary and Trump, then blaming Hillary voters for Trump winning.

The one thing the progressive left has mastered is shooting itself in the foot and blaming everyone else for their suffering.

Show me where Biden has stated he will arrest campus protesters and enact a muslim ban...

The Democratic Party has a lot of pull in who gets chosen in primaries. They threatened to blacklist and vendors or firms who worked with primary challengers. The DNC was working alongside Clinton in fundraising during the Presidential primary. Every candidate magically dropping out at the same time in 2020 and putting their support behind Biden wasn't an accident. And it was their decision last year to not hold primaries in many states and to not sponsor any debates.

Sure Biden probably wins as an incumbent, but the Democratic Party has been putting their thumb on the scale for a long time to get the candidate they preferred. If they had a true open primary and encouraged debate and other candidates, I think it would have been much more interesting.

There was like 3000 people arrested at protests over the past couple weeks. What's the argument you're making? That Trump wants to continue to do what's actually happening?

Well the blame should be on the shitty candidate who couldn't beat a racist conman who hosted a game show. Why would people that Hillary hates be responsible for Hillary losing?

This is also why Nevada, Arizona, and Georgia are not going to be in play. RFK Jr really claws into his numbers. The best path is still PA, MI, and WI.




No. That he wants to send in the national guard en masse and have a potential Kent St situation.

Majority of people arrested aren't even students, it has been local or campus police, and most protests have been allowed to happen, but bend it anyway you want to fit your narrative.

That's just not true. The NYPD lied about that afterwards to save face (that and the comical press conference to say they found a terrorism book among the students). They were counting arrests made on the street and in other parts of the city as part of the college campus protests. They also designated faculty as "not students" to prop up the outside agitator stuff.

It ended up being 2 people in Hamilton Hall that weren't students. One was someone's girlfriend and another was a SPJ representative.

Biden could open up a civil rights investigation against the city as the Mayor did explicitly say he arrested them because he didn't like what the protest was about. But instead he called them violent and insinuated they were terrorists. Now you'll cry when they won't vote for Biden.

And lets not forget this doozy. But please keep citing the NYPD and their corrupt Mayor who's about to be arrested any day now.

and what about all the other campuses? You just going to conveniently ignore them?

Trump has told us in his own words what he will do. If these supposed pro Palestinian protesters chose that it's on them. I'm an upper middle class white dude. I'll be fine

Most of those campuses look like students too. The only one I saw trying to make the outside agitator excuse was the NYPD. And that was when they got pushback for the clear civil rights violation.


No shit dude. We know you don't really care.

Police arrest pro-Palestinian protesters at Penn – NBC10 Philadelphia

I can cherry pick also!

Meanwhile, the camp at my son's college has disbanded after coming to an agreement with administration. No arrests. No cops. No breaking into buildings. Funny, not much on the news about them.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

There has been a huge camp at my Alma Mater, one of the top universities in the nation, Washington, and zero violence, issues, etc...funny how that goes.

You picked an instance where no one was charged with a crime. And students don't have to tell the cops they're students. In fact, it's advised they don't say anything.

The only violence I've seen is from pro-zionist people and the cops. It was the cops who fired their gun at Columbia.

You don't hear about those other protests because the administration isn't calling in the police to have them violently removed.

If progressives are given 2 choices and neither are the exact thing that they want they say they're the same and blame the system.

Not being able to accept the better choice for themselves when given 2 choices and the take my ball and go home mindset when things don't go their way is why progressives haven't taken larger role within the Dem party. And it's not about appeasing the establishment or any of that bullshit. It's about building on small wins to create larger wins down the road.

Trump was the biggest setback to the progressive movement since it really started to gain traction and they're ready to play a role in bringing him back. It's hard to take people seriously about issues they claim to care about when they help put people that are destructive to their cause in office.

spot on

This is the bullshit part. You can't gain "small wins" with the current party. The Democratic Party serves their corporate donors. Nancy Pelosi isn't going to change her position on anything when she can do a little insider trading and make a few million overnight. You're not convincing a bunch of Senators to oppose wars when their campaigns are funded by defense companies. Heck, the biggest accomplishment the Democrats have touted over the past few decades is a giant handout to health insurance companies that you guessed it, heavily funded their campaigns.

There is a point where you realize Lucy is going to keep pulling that football away. The Democratic Party will never accept progressives and never act in their interests. It is more beneficial to the Democratic establishment to allow a Republican to win. Many progressives held their nose and voted for Biden because he did promise some good things (attack climate change, end forever wars, allow protests,etc). But when he stabbed them in the back, you can't blame them for not voting for them.

Progressives are doing fine. The movement has grown immensely and if you look at polls of younger voters, you can see they are largely progressive on a lot of important issues. The current Democrats are not interested in that voter bloc and that's their choice. But they're growing and smart Democrats like Whitmer and Pritzker are courting them for the future. And I think if you're looking for real change out of the "left wing" party in this country, your vote is the best leverage you have. Because voting for them is not getting you anywhere.

And the idea that this is all progressives who are abandoning Biden is wrong. An overwhelming majority of Democratic voters want a permanent ceasefire and the end to weapons being sent to Israel. So unless 83% of Democratic voters are progressives, Biden is taking an incredibly unpopular stance in an election year.

This isn't progressives screwing Biden. It's not China infiltrating our apps. It's a President who is doing something his base hates and paying the price.

And that price is cutting your own foot off to prove a point and then complaining that you don't have a foot.

Let me know how that works out for progressives getting people in office. Not showing up is a hell of strategy.

I find it really rich that dems are being accused of allowing a Republican to win, when it's really groups at the far left that are aligning with trump because of his populist tendencies, and his 'no surrender' approach. Populist left, populist right, still populist. You're seeing big donors changing sides because if trump is gonna pass out big parts of the government ala Putin, they want to be the next US oligarch friend of the boss.



It's gone beyond what's right, to who is gonna win, and there are plenty of people who would rather be a part of the new power coalition, political party be damned. The actual love for the Democracy and country seems to be over.

Doesn't seem like voting for Biden in 2020 did them any good. Biden has shifted even further to the right.

You're also assuming this is all progressives. Genocide is very unpopular despite what you read from some on this board. Not to mention inflation, protectionism, and all the other unpopular issues he has.

Why would dems continue to try to appease a group that has time and time again shown that if they don't get exactly what they want they'll largely just stay home?

Progressives helped Trump win in 2016 and that got them Biden in 2020. Lets see how handing Trump another win 2024 works out.

I haven't said all progressives. I said progressives are helping. There are other factors too.

I'm over it at this point. If progressives want to stay at home, vote 3rd party, or whatever. That's fine. I just don't want to hear the crying when Trump urges Netanyahu to flatten Gaza, deports 11 million+ people, tries to kick protestors out of the country, lowers billionaire taxes again, increases police funding, dismantles the Department of Education and any number of other things progressives claim to care about.

It won't be Biden's fault despite what they'll all tell themselves.

Running the worst politician we've seen in our lifetime helped Trump win in 2016. 8 years of crying about Russia, Bernie, Comey, and whatever lame excuses they had to come up with instead of just admitting that running an unpopular candidate is a bad idea.