Go easy, gentle Vronsky. This kind of thing does not end well.

Happened to me once

I was getting played the whole time


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Never.

The person being abused is the one that has to take the steps. You can help them take those steps, but do.not.interfere. It will go very, *very* badly.

Hat tip for the Tolstoy reference BTW

What happened? If I may ask.

Not the same scenario but this flere drop is amazing


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How to (successfully) hit on a coworker.
 

… in essence:

Worked with a pretty girl when I was 20
Flirted
Started to be attracted
Told me her home life/husband was abusive
We got closer
Eventually she asked for money to file for divorce
Hesitant and didn’t give her the money as I began to grow suspicious that she was lying
Eventually found out she was also ‘hanging out’ with another person
Realized the husband was a nice meek fellow being run over
I iced her out
Then I went and spilled the beans to husband about everything she was doing to clear my kharma account

It was exciting, immoral, and bad

Taught me a lesson


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I checked the datestamp on that and it was 18 years ago, Flasch. 18!

We’re all grown up


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First thing I thought of when I read this latest turn (a song of course):

https://youtu.be/Y3vrkOqo8A8

We're all older. I'm not sure about grown up

But, man, a flere diagram. That takes me back!

SI

Now we just need a NFL WiP!

Did a mid-week walk this week. Met some interesting people. They were different from the normal fare. One cute woman I was interested in. Maybe I'll pursue her if she shows up to future walks.

“Pursue” sounds weird to me for some reason


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So I'm really depressed right now. I have a coworker that's with an allegedly abusive husband (she claims he gets drunk and says "I'll kill you") and I'm watching youtube videos of woman who give their life savings to Nigerian men. Yet the US government gives almost a billion dollars to the government.

Where is there a place for me in this world.

Yes I'm drunk and I'm depressed. And I watched the Lions fail last night.

If only the US didn't spend 1.5 trillion dollars on the F-35 program and spent it on sex dolls. I feel I would be much better off.

Also I just found out the my representative in Congress is a Republican :(

Well perhaps you can take advantage of this and join The Right Stuff which is a Conservative dating site! Apparently there are a lot of conservatives in your area.

I have no idea what you're talking about and how it deals with my midlife crises.

Honestly

I think you’ve focused on the wrong things.

If you just really focus on making yourself publicly happy for 6 months I can almost guarantee you’ll have dates and girls. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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Something for you to consider.

[url="https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/8/4/inside-a-700-year-old-groom-market-in-indias-bihar-state"]

Except that market is literally dying out and attendance is sparse compared to how it used to be

This, pretty much. Happiness breeds confidence. Confidence breeds attraction.

Focusing on getting a woman breeds desperation. Desperation destroys attraction.

There's a reason why so many people get into relationships and marriages after they've stopped looking. They focus on being happy by themselves and that leads to what Flasch described

I was single before I met my wife about 10 years ago. I tried Internet dating, worked really well. Just found it to be a numbers game. Dropped 5 short but well thought out messages to women I fancied every night. Averaged around 2 dates per week within 2 weeks. Within 6 to 8 weeks 2 new dates with a couple of 2nd/3rd dates, so out 4 times a week.

Just hitting a strike rate of 2 out of 35 I felt like a college campus stud within no time with all the options. I did find a big difference going on a dating sight I had to pay on rather than a free one. One of the best investments I ever made. Met my wife who was a physio with her own place and no kids. Having dated a lot of people it was easy to see when something special came along.

I do agree confidence breeds attraction.

But IMO you do also need to proactively "pursue" vs thinking it'll happened by itself.

No doubt. If you don't you will just get what you are given. Always makes sense to go after who you really want rather than settle for who likes you. Expect knock backs, happens to all of us.

Honestly, for someone who struggles with self confidence, dating sites is probably the best option. I would never have gone to a club and "picked up". But I was willing to write a million messages to women on a dating site, and get a small number of responses back. That's part of being a guy. You have to work for your dates. Women have it much easier, just put up a profile and start screening the good ones, LOL.
But the good news is that once you arrange a date, you at least know you have something in common with them, and there's a "chance". Doesn't mean it'll turn out, but if it doesn't, you move onto the next one. Unless you live in a small town, there's always a "next one" online. After a while, I just started to be myself, and if they didn't like it , it was their loss and not mine. That's when the process started working a lot better, and I eventually met my wife.

On the bright side, it was only pre-season.

LOL no. Just no.

Response rate by women to men? Less than 1%. And the Pareto Principle holds true for online dating metrics - 80% of the messages/responses from women to men goes to the top 20% of men. Online dating is a sucker's game that actually exacerbates the problem, as the lack of responses/contacts only feeds into the sense of low self-confidence and self-esteem.

Your anecdotal experience is the exception, not the rule when looking at the aggregate data

Ah, quite a sweeping statement there. Not saying the facts are wrong. But.

You go in expecting to have a 1/100 strike rate. Your head has to be in the right place going in. When you get a date, again, don't have high expectations. If you have to write 100 messages to get a date, so what. England is dense population wise so those numbers are not a killer, granted it depends where you live.

Couple of key points to making a success of online dating, from my reasonably extensive experience...

1. Pick the right site. Pay money, don't use free sites. You will be dealing with women who are serious. Plus, more often than not, women with money. Women who are "serious" will be more inclined to go for personality. Sure they are almost as shallow as us, but I believe it will help squash that a little. There's me generalizing, some women are actually not shallow at all. Kind of brings me on to my next point.

2. NobodyHere comes across as a smart guy who writes well. Big advantage. Most educated women will prefer a guy who can put a sentence together and are smart enough to recognise a bullshit cut and paste message over a well thought out personal, but light and not too stalkerish one.

Like any hobby, mission or project. There are angles. There are ways to swing this your way if you try harder and play smarter than the next guy.

I am happily married going on 15 years.

That being said I would be really curious to see what kind of response I would get on a dating site ( I never would sign up just to see ). A buddy has been on one since his divorce and said there are tons of girls in to beards and tattoos, both I have in abundance. I'm 6-2 and in decent shape for pushing 50. I think I would do OK.

I've had the same thought, just from reading a few threads on this board from time to time. Entirely out of curiosity - I'd never even sign up, but in an alternate universe, it would be interesting to see how it would go. I mean, I haven't dated since 1991. I had never even heard of the internet or email when my wife and I went on our first date. Dating itself is a weird concept 30+ years later, let alone online.

I'm the opposite. Every time I read about modern dating experience, I think to myself "thank god I'm not out there" and more power and respect to those who are

SI

I guess I am an anomaly as far as dating sites go for sure. After divorcing my first wife I had dalliances with co-workers and women I met at clubs and even a mom of one of my players, none of which are really conducive to anything beyond the causal hookup/FWB (in most cases at least)

So, when I was looking for something more permanent finally I signed up on Match.com. I was on there for several weeks, just browsing, never paying to join, which is required for contacting someone (at least for men) I kept going back on one profile that I found intriguing. Finally I said screw it, paid the 29.95 to join, sent her a message, we had a good conversation soon after and agreed to meet for lunch.

20 years later (17 married) we are still happily together and she was the only person I ever contacted, so 1 for 1 and still the best 29.95 I have ever spent LOL.

Obviously there was a degree of luck in there, but I was also very cognizant of red flags in profiles I browsed when I found a woman physically attractive, while also being aware of potentially outkicking my coverage, which honestly I did anyway, but for me it worked.

Oh. I have zero desire be back out there. I am just curious what kind of response I would get. I don't want to actually go through that meat grinder even though I never really had any issues. It just sounds exhausting at this point

Oh, I have no interest in the actual trying to date someone that way, don't get me wrong. Even if I suddenly found myself single, I'm not sure I'd do it. I'm just saying, the curiosity of my worth as a "free agent" is mildly interesting to me, having just turned 51, in decent shape, stable job, etc.

It's probably more of the thought that, unlike my teenage years when trying to engage with a woman seemed like climbing Mount Everest, it would be like fish jumping into the boat by contrast.

I'm afraid if I were suddenly single, I would probably stay permanently single. As much as I love my wife, I do wonder if I would even want to marry again. I think I would be happy with a roommate I get along with so I wouldn't be lonely. Of course, I'm ugly enough it may not be by choice.

I've had the same thought. You know what it would be for me? The entire process/work involved with starting at ground zero in a new relationship and trying to get as comfortable with another human being as my wife and I are with each other. I'm just not sure it's worth it at my age, because I don't think I'd ever get there, or it would be too exhausting to try.

It's like typing an entire paper and losing it in a power outage. I can re-do the entire thing, but mentally, I can't get over the fact that I have to do it again.

I’d just hire help for the kids and be single for a while

Not single to play the field but single because… so much work


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I would 100% stay single. Tranny prostitutes only.

As someone who was married for 26 years and now 9 years single, I have given up on dating sites and am resigned to being single for the rest of my life. My success rate on responses was minimal and I didn't have any interest in those that did respond. I value my alone time, even when I was married, so I am pretty happy with my decision.

When I suddenly found myself single again a while back, it was a very different experience. I found myself able to read body language and cues and the dating world made sense.

I preferred the free sites. They make their money from page interactions, so their market is providing a positive, engaging experience. The pay sites make their money directly from the subscription fees, so their market is more focused. The complaints I heard, over and over, were about the number of fake profiles (male and female) and time wasted messaging dormant accounts. People who are "serious" about dating might try either one or both. You can generally tell from a profile who is serious, as long as it's an active profile.

I kept a spreadsheet tracking my approach. Some demographic details, information about anyone I tried to contact. I found that if I stuck to my own age group and education level (by far the two most important factors) and made contact using a short message, but one that indicated that I read the profile, I had a very high response rate (about 50%). I decided early on to limit myself to one new message per week - if it went unanswered, so be it.

The rest of it was rather subjective. A couple of dates, at most, should indicate whether there's any chance of a relationship. Follow Kenny Rogers' advice - know when to fold 'em. If you waste time sticking with something that isn't working fantastic after a couple of dates, think of how bad it's going to feel after a couple of months. Don't be afraid to be the bad guy - the sooner the better. Don't be afraid to tell yourself the truth - introspection leads to growth.

Some things I found out surprised me. Physical attraction was far more important than I gave it credit for. But mostly that it's essential to have a lot in common from a values perspective, whether that's religion or education or budgeting or simply how you treat people.

My second marriage, as we're now in our second decade together, is a world different from my first - and that's because we really got to know each other and were together for the right reasons.

I liked the dating interlude in between, because it was fun getting to know people and gaining the confidence in my social skills. But it is work, if you're going to have a successful experience, and somewhat humbling. If you go in thinking some beautiful thing half your age is just dying to meet you, well, you'll get no responses unless you're obviously very wealthy, and you'll never learn what really works for you.

I'd advise not even looking at profiles outside of five years of your age either way. Also spend some time writing a profile that talks about what you're looking for in dating - write it for the person you want to meet, not the many that you don't want to meet.

Meetup groups aren't bad, either. I didn't find them great for dating (only one relationship the whole time, though that was nice for my confidence as well), but they were great for breaking the monotony of living alone.

50% response rate, damn. There is your top 20% guy Izulde mentioned.

Totally different experience on pay sites though. It opened the door to professional, educated women on 6 figure salaries for me. Free sites was largely married women (its complicated), and those who are struggling for money. Oh, don't forget those who just want an ego boost. Just my experience.

On any decent site it will say when the profile was last active.

Totally agree on the age thing. I prefer younger women and it dropped my reply rate when I went that direction.

Never ran into the married issue. Certainly, a few who were divorced too recently, and even one who was widowed far too young, and needed much more time to heal (she brought a photo album on our second date, which would have been funny, but it's not too hard to imagine what she was going through).

I don't think I was unusually successful. I just spent some time figuring out who to contact and how to do it. You don't really know a thing until you meet someone in person, though, so you can't take not getting a response personally. What does feel bad is a first meeting that's so painfully awkward or boring that you start questioning your entire approach.

Though you get some stories with the bad dates. Like the chemistry professor, who I thought would be a great match... she spent the entire dinner talking about who knows what, it was so bad I had to tune out - I could not get a word in anyway. Then she called me within ten minutes of my getting home to read me my astrology forecast. She was genuinely excited that our charts indicated something or other. It was endless. I should have had her redesign the chemistry part of FOF. Though who would think a chemistry professor would believe in astrology? It was maybe the only time I've ever cut off a conversation and admitted I wasn't going to call again.

Did anyone expect that Jim DIDN'T keep a spreadsheet on his approach? :D

I was actually disappointed, I would have expected a mySQL database instead of xls.

Maybe I was in the top 20%. I dunno. I feel like I was an okay catch at the time. Good education, decent shape, decent job (for my age). 5'9", not tall but not short. Apparently from what I've heard, height is VERY important. Wish I knew why that was such a high priority. Kinda ridick. Imagine a guy stating that he'll only date women with DD.

For me it was 100 messages, 10 responses, 3 dates, 1 relationship. Things seemed to fit into those ratios. Sometimes it felt like it took forever between responses, and sometimes I had multiple communications going at once.

I'd put a mostly generic post that I'd reuse, but would add in specific lines related to their profile, to show I actually read it and cared. But I wouldn't craft a 2 page masterpiece individually, ain't got time for that.

Also did anybody think about TCY recruiting when they read Jim's post? LOL. Oh, 10 calls left this week. What's her education aptitude? Hopefully she's in the same state. Is she visiting any other prospects this week?

I don't know, I bet most of us have some sort of criteria.

Mine is probably worse than most. Never dated anyone even slightly overweight in my life. 5-3 to 5-9 a must. No kids, even though I have a 14 year old daughter myself. Must be financially solid - not about to half what I have accumulated. Not proud of that, sounds pretty bad on paper. Embarrassing even. But it is what it is.

It does seem acceptable for a woman to say she wouldn't date a short man, bald man or man with bad teeth, yet only on the Internet would I be brave enough to say I wouldn't date an overweight woman.

I am 6-1 and a solid 215 lbs but very average looking in the face. I never had anyone message me that I can recall. Always me making the first move. I suspect a pretty boy face is what would really have them knocking at your door. But I guess all of us are different in what we go for.

I stand 5'3 and have had several women tell me that I'm just not tall enough. It's rather disheartening.

When's the release of Front Office Dating?

I thought divorce was an excellent opportunity to reinvent myself. It's not like my day job was working out, either. But one of my skills is the ability to work out ways to analyze data using nontraditional methods.

From a more philosophical perspective, what happens if you try and replace environment in the whole nature/nurture paradigm? Will you end up with essentially the same person? Or will you come to different conclusions?

I used the dating process as a catalyst for that change. I tried to remove as much bias from the process as possible. Though I had to rely on basics that would have felt wrong - it's not like I felt I needed to try hard drugs, rob banks at gunpoint or date someone whose profile was unpleasant.

I would say that less changed about me than I had hoped. But I think I'm a much more empathetic person, calmer, able to shrug off much more of what I can't control. If only I could stop reading the news entirely and just focus on family, work and health (the body sure does break down after decades in front of a computer). My politics ended up a little less libertarian, but still in that quadrant, and still, I hope, evolving.

In dating, I can't emphasize attraction enough, which I would have called a shallow approach when I was younger. An intellectual and value-based connection (I am not religious) is still more important, but you have to get on the same playing field first.

As for those first messages, no, you can't write two-page essays. Two, three sentences at most. Intro, idea, action. Action being something along the lines of welcoming a return message. I cringe when I remember my first attempt at online dating - I found the "perfect" profile and composed this long, perfect message... waited... and nothing. She must have thought I was absolutely insane.

Percentages - about one message a week sent, about 50% response, met maybe 20% of those who responded, probably 50% of those were one or two dates and no more. Of those who messaged me, I almost never responded (there are plenty of women who send out 100 generic messages a week, too). Met a couple of them in the end, one just because she was so much younger - and taller than me (I'm 6-0/6-1). She was quite interesting, but boy does the generation gap become obvious when you're 10-15 years apart.

Another rule that worked well for me was limiting the back-and-forth messaging or any kind of dating to one person at a time. Not because of commitment or for that person's benefit at all, but for my own benefit. This was a process and I needed to learn as much as I could from it. It was more than three years into this that I met my wife, but by then I had learned enough that I knew by the end of our second date that this was someone I could have a real relationship with.

Going back to the topic of co-workers... I think it's a terrible idea in general. There's always the excuse of "how else am I..." but that's where online dating comes in, or bars if you can navigate that scene, or meetup groups, anything else. We can talk about how politics is changing and how Me Too changed some dynamics.

One thing to be aware of is that women have long had to deal with a measure of sexual harassment in the workplace. A man has a relationship with a cute co-worker and he gets fist-bumps in the hallway. A woman has a relationship with a cute co-worker and she's sleeping her way to the top. Is that equal opportunity? That has finally changed now, and the answer is, I think, to treat the workplace as a zero-attraction environment, no matter how strongly you feel it's OK. There's a lot of truth to Zelda's theory of "propinquity" in the Dobie Gillis world. But that leads to poor decisions. You must fight against propinquity.

I don't really like to share personal details much since I was doxxed on this forum, but I'm 6-3, fairly attractive, and my dating struggle is real. It's a confidence thing with me. I tried online dating years ago and it was awful.

Yeah, I've had lots of women tell me that physically, all they care about is height. And confidence is key, too. I think they can smell desperation.

I don't know how to explain that part. For me, it was cluelessness about dating, then married to someone who I just shouldn't have been married to out of loneliness on both sides. Then when I came out of it, suddenly it all made sense and that's where the confidence came from.

For lack of a better analogy, it was like sitting in the cockpit of plane and suddenly realizing that you understood all the controls and could fly that thing.

Re the height thing. I'm 5'9" (although probably slightly under that now) so I've never been told I'm not tall enough, but if that ever happened, I suppose my snarky response would be, "OK, I'll get right on that."

Having been out of the dating market for 24 years or so I find the idea of this new dating market terrifying. I try to hard, my expectations are too high, and my feelings all probably to sensitive to find success without some major personality adjustments. Thankful that's one thing I don't need to worry about.

Eh. You show up at one bar in the Pilot's uniform, you would do fine.

Were you really?

Dola- I am in jersey where a lot of guys are shorter Italian types. 5-7 or so. Height is definitely a thing for a lot of girls. Luckily I’m 6-2.

I guess going for shorter women would improve your odds. I presume the perception of a 4-10 woman would be different from a 5-7 one.

Yep, and some of the people surrounding it still post here daily. I don't remember if anyone ever apologized, which makes me think they didn't.

I had to look up what doxxed means

I can’t believe that happened


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That's funny. You don't remember you and others questioning my identity to the point that someone posted my name and address.? You are one of the people I was referring to up above.

I unearthed the biggest FOF league cheating scandal and was rewarded by being doxxed.

Sorry for derailing...

How to (successfully) hit on a coworker.
 

Me?

I guess I didn’t know what a docking was or that I was involved especially if it involved the silliness of fake football.

Not my intention to have someone post personal info. I assume I didn’t do that.

Apologies

Edit: I do remember a member of my fake league threatening to come shoot me partially because I’m Jewish. That was fun.


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Was his name Yiannis or Bossman?

I don’t recall the name but I guess I was more than zero% worried but less than 2% at the time for it to register this long term.


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OK, now I'm interested in what all this is about.

I can't imagine there is much interest in learning about how one of the OG leagues had a commissioner re-rolling the dice.

I hope no one minds if I do all this again someday and I don't include multiplayer.

TCY2 and I love you long time

Is this a post about dating or football? :D

Lol


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You would be wrong. I would watch that 30 for 30.

I wasn't involved, but I do sort of remember the drama.

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I’m interested in the gory details.

I show up at a bar in my uniform and (presumably drink) I probably get fired the next day. So that's not a thing.

Ever see the movie Her? Single-player with a better AI is far superior.

I'm very surprised China hasn't already gone this route, coming off the one-child fiasco.

TCY2? No thanks. Full free-agency every year, no more academics, no one knows how to tackle, NIL, the Big Ten expands to include Manchester United and Arsenal... no fun at all.

Dammit Jim. You know when you're a certain age and you think about love interests to help fall asleep. I didn't think about girls, I thought about TCY2. And maybe that is part of my problem lol

You're the real McCoy

I really shouldn't have brought it up. I was bored tonight and started looking for old posts and private messages. Here are my findings:

1) The timeline in my head is off
2) I was a little bitch back then and very defensive
3) Flasch apologized for his role (he obviously didn't want me doxxed, I don't even know if that term was born when it happened), however I didn't accept it. A couple of screwballs in his league got in his head that I had multiple aliases and owned multiple teams in multiple leagues and his lack of trust in me just upset me. The main culprit of the whole ordeal called Flasch an effin Jew and used the n-word on me at one point believing I was an African-American.
4) The real scandal happened years later and didn't involve Flasch's league, but one I was very much a part of. I saw inconsistencies in the numbering of the game log and boxscore files. I believe I opened up the (*.fbo? and *.flo?) files and it painted a picture of playoff games (in particular) being re-simmed a lot. The commissioner's team made some nice deep runs in the playoffs - runs that cut my own team's short. One championship in particular was totally staged to be between his team and the team of my bestie, who had no idea. It took a lot of "dice rolling" to make that matchup happen.

Long story short, I took the commish to task on it in PM's and said he needed to hand the league over immediately or I would out him. This was a league that the people in it really loved and I didn't want their experiences to be ruined like mine was when I found out. I asked someone important in the community if I was doing the right thing and they said yes. That person is the only one I told for years. I eventually confided in my friend as he was no longer involved with the league.

This was 15 years ago and I'm not really sure why I'm sharing it now. I kind of felt like I got the short end of the straw from a lot of the community when I really just wanted to be one of the popular guys. I remember really wanting to be a part of IHOF at one point, but it never happened. This probably is a good reminder as to why commissioners probably shouldn't have their own teams. There were loopholes to look at everyone's gameplans as well and I know it was being done. In another instance I went as far to prove that a GM was gaming the system to figure out the minimum amount of dollars it'd take to do a contract extension. There were other loopholes as well. In fact, I had to use them to expose the people that were using them. I can understand why Jim wouldn't want to deal with MP again. :)

How to (successfully) hit on a coworker.
 

I assume the guy threatening you was the same guy that threatened to come kill me. I don’t recall any of the stuff that happened outside of my league and know the rerolling wasn’t me cuz I suck and always have at being a gm. Lol

Sorry that all went down back then.


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This is so true. Confidence is very attractive, and lack of confidence is really unattractive.

I struggled with this a lot before I met the woman who became my wife (together 25 years, married 20). I think the confirmation came after we were married and I stopped having any interest in other women. I suddenly got a lot more attention in social settings from women than I ever had.

I think you seriously underestimate how bored most of us are.

What he said.

So what happened in the end?

Well this took an unexpected swerve

I ran the league for several years before handing it over to better hands. I had forgotten this, but I let the dice man remain as a GM. I assume I did that for continuity sake - he was well-liked there and on this board. He eventually became a GM in IHOF. As for myself, I've been retired from FOF for over ten years. I still load up TCY in an XP virtual machine every now and then to get some of the joy back I had for the game 15-20 years ago.

I agree, I like it.

Is it wrong to hope that the big reveal is that Barbara is Dave Dial's sister-in-law?

I think the commish re-simming playoff games was more widespread than one would expect. I thought about adding some code that would give leagues the ability to verify this sort of thing, but... what if a league ended up screwed because there was some sort of problem during simming and the commish had a legitimate reason to re-sim and was then accused of cheating?

One of the biggest MP issues is the reliance on a very small set of people to do the heavy lifting in setting up, running and organizing. I added encryption to head off the easiest ways to cheat and tried to work with a couple of commissioners to give them more complete and useful file exports, but without providing a pro-level web interface, there's always going to be too much burden on commissioners with relatively little reward.

I think EA had the right idea - and spent some serious money on the concept. It's too bad it didn't work out.

Wait what? Scrolling through and seeing this left me like :eek:

There's only so much you can do to legislate against human behavior. If a commish has a corrupted file and is honest and transparent about having to sim a couple of times due to technical issues and the GMs think they can't trust the GM, it's a human problem, not a game problem.

To put it another way, you could implement the perfect technical solution and people would still complain, and still cheat.

Well I had a good walk today with the Trumper and a new person. It was only us three but we had a good time. The 5K walk passed by seamlessly.

Tomorrow there might be some drama. The Trumper has threatened not to show up if another member shows up. Lets call her Mary. Anyways I haven't met her much but Mary seems to me like an old hippie to me.

Just like a Trumper to cause disruption. It's not even his walk to host. This is in a nutshell why Trumpers are the worst human being, they need to stay in their herd or scare/bull rush off anyone who counters their bullshit.

I’m sure it’s cuz the lib is such a snowflake


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To be fair, it's not like he caused a scene or anything. He disliked another member of the group and just didn't show up.

Why did he dislike her? Was she constantly talking about global warming being man made out trickle down economics while out there? Was she accusing him of being a racist?


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I asked why and this is the reason I got:

Ah

So he’s a snowflake

Got it


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