The people currently voting bhlloy is a good start for a bad role list. Maybe only 1 or 2 out of the 4 currently voting him may flip bad but that would be a decent shot in the dark percentage for a D1 lynch.

Feels like a stretch. Typical wolf (villager in this case) behavior would be to split the vote and be as quiet as possible day one. There’s no value in them piling on, especially on something as obvious as “Lynch the guy who hasn’t checked in” because if that person turns up good it looks terrible.

If it was a runaway and I turned out to be bad then I would look to see who switched on to me late in the day, because that’s very wolfy behavior (give yourself a wolf vote and don’t get stranded) but unfortunately that’s not going to turn out to be the case

I have to say that post has kinda piqued my interest in you though. A villager trying to influence the n1 lynch is interesting. Almost feels like you have some insight into where you’d like to see that go?

Not sure I follow the N1 influence or reference. Just saying that list of people is on my "watch" list.

And by 'villager' I think you meant 'wolf', correct?

Or did you mean vampire? Now I am confused. I'll shut up for a bit..

We are going to have so much fun with this, I can already tell.

Yes, sorry. “Good guys” - and yeah this is going to take a lot of getting used to (and potentially some fun metagaming)

So this has gone quiet, even adjusting for folks who may be at work. I'm actually going to switch things up a bit... definitely won't leave it tied if it comes down to it, but try to get some movement going.

unvote RendeR
vote henry296

I realised I said n1 lynch rather than n1 NK, so that was probably pretty confusing.

Reading the rules again, it's interesting that there isn't a mentioned NK ability. Do we presume that the Vampire can convert a wolf (good guy) to a vampire with NK, and then what does the vanilla vampire do? I can't imagine in such a small game there's possibility of multiple NK's on the vampire side, would seem too easy to get the win. Does the village (bad guys) get a NK ability that isn't mentioned?

I'm feeling pretty lost on the mechanics of this game to be honest, but maybe it will be clearer once we see a couple of nights.

Agreed bhlloy. We have a lot of information that we do not yet know. Several different roles could affect the balance as well as night actions, none of which is clear to the wolves. There are a lot of quiet people out there that may know more than most of us at this point. I am hoping we can start to game the system come D2 and know even more D3. Not sure when the tipping point for game over may be... somewhere around D4? Both villagers and vampires need equal numbers to wolves AND to get rid of any other entity (note "any other entity"). A lynch and a NK of some sort along with conversions and secret abilities and this could all happen pretty quickly.

unvote bhlloy

As I stated, I was only voting for him because he was inactive. I'm actually now leaning Telle since she was violently opposing me which makes me believe we are on opposite sides. To me, the showdown should be between us because we pushed the opposite agenda which means that one of is likely bad and it isn't me.

I knew the extended day was a ruse! Welcome to the game Bhlloy

unvote bhlloy as well.

My first guess would be that the night kill is assumed, and doesn't need to be mentioned in the rules.

Therefore, I would assume if there is a vampire or vampires, they don't have their own night kill but probably a conversion of some type, and not one every night. That would be overkill.

However, my second guess would be that there have been some games we've played where the bad guys don't start with a kill and then have to gain one as the game goes on. That's always a lot of confusion but I could see EF doing something like that.

Now, my question is about the healing action EF mentioned. Going back to the roles to check what that might be.

Okay, I glossed over this the first few times reading through

"Doctor - Can heal a fellow wolf who was attacked."

I know this is often a role in regular Werewolf, but not one we typically had in our games here. I don't remember how this mechanic typically works, but it might suggest that kills are not instantaneous? Or it's basically a bodyguard block that happens after the attack? I'm not sure. Not much use speculating but good to keep in mind as we go forward.

FYI.. regarding the what kills exist discussion.

This seems to suggest both the conversion, villager attack and vampire attack are things.

The doctor is a variant on a bodyguard--I'm not sure if they're different in anything other than name, typically.

With the kill and conversion mechanics potentially in play here, I wonder whether this power to "heal" applies to one, the other, or both.

We need conversation, so I am going to even things up a bit. Runaway voting gives us no help.

UNVOTE HENRY296

VOTE RENDER

Yeah, I'm trying to think of the nuances of Town of Salem without booting it up in the middle of the work day. I think BG can only block certain types of attack whereas Doctor can heal any kind of attack, but maybe I have that backwards. And of course, there's no evidence we are playing by those rules anyway.

The "if the associated rules exist" puts that in doubt I think. I think if EF had left one of those out, it would have been a confirmation that a certain role or mechanic wasn't in the game - I'm not reading too much into it.

I still think if all those things are in a 10 person game with 3 teams, this is going to last like 3 days tops. After such a long hiatus, that would be a shame :D

I agree with you in general, but only on the non-usual things. A "wolf" kill is pretty much standard in WW. Since we see it in EF's order of events and it being so common, I think we can presume the villagers have a NK.

I'd prefer to hear more from some of the quiet players... who do you like for villagers/vamps all? Any thoughts on roles from a meta perspective? Any meal time arguments over werewolf?!

Since heal happens after both attacks I think it would help against either villager or vampire. For now I’m assuming we have both.

I’m wondering if going back to bhlloy could work because trying to understand if telle was trying to protect him or render was throwing him under the bus was part of the strategy last night. I realize the same could be said of me, but I’m not voting for myself.

If this ends up henry vs Render, the final vote will come down to GoldenEagle and LSG.

I’m away now until about an hour before deadline. Just gave a quick reread of the thread, nothing really stands out about the 2 up there. I’d like to go in the direction of the more inactive members, I know that is rich coming from moi. GE and Lonestargirl - the latter has been active enough but not really saying much, it’s a potentially problematic approach.

This is similar to what I am thinking. I will obviously move my vote if bhlloy is not a candidate but I am not sure why everyone moved off of him so quickly.

I guess it makes sense that you would vote for me when I have been relatively quiet today and I voted for you when you were MIA for the day... but the vote for me doesn't make sense. We have a tie and the fact you wanted a throw away vote instead of putting the pressure on the Henry or Render.

so again vote Bhlloy

I'll accept this one but next time please leave the vote on a line of its own. If this wasn't the very last post before my update I may have missed the vote while skimming over the posts.

This time I am leaving this screen up and barring any surprise calls from the hospital with a bad update I will be here for 10:00.

OK so Bhlloy has arrived, my vote for him was purely to eliminate a non entity, but since that is no longer the case.


UNVOTE BHLLOY

I am seriously impressed with just how easily telle got the bandwagon on me today.

She was intensely defending Bhlloy yesterday based on nothing more than speculation as to game mechanics we know nothing about. And now that her defended has come around he throws a vote on me then changes again later.

Trying to cover a mistake on his part? I dunno, but it makes me suspicious.

If all else fails I will vote to defend myself. Putting that out there now.

And of course we're now back to a more typical "we know very little Night 1 vote"

I’m with RendeR. Willing to vote for Telle but we will need one more or he will be voted off.

What did you know before that you don't know now? That someone hadn't shown up yet and was thus an easy way to place a vote without drawing suspicion? Except that didn't work.

Btw, good job trying to spin stuff and spitting out meaningless jabber. You'd make a good press secretary for a head of state.

As of #239:

RendeR 3 - britrock88 (142), Telle (145), Chief Rum (221)
bhlloy 2 - GoldenEagle (112), LoneStarGirl (231)
henry296 2 - Autumn (82), timmae (93)
LoneStarGirl 1 - bhlloy (230)

No current vote - henry296, RendeR

Meaningless Jabber?

Did you not state that you based your choices on the BELIEF that eaglefan would have a "more balanced and fair" way of handling ties?

thats not meaningless, thats a fact. None of us have a clue, especially with his response to that specific question. So call it what you want, tis a fact that you're going off speculation and guesswork, not facts or logic.

I'd like to think your hounding of me right from the get go is little more than being a snarky spouse, but frankly you're too good at this game to assume silliness from you. Everything you do in game is planned. Which makes me even more suspicious.

Nice try

Can I really not get anyone to come with me on LSG? Quiet as hell, lots of posts saying stuff but not really saying stuff. Unvoted me with the herd after I showed up but didn't really explain it. Defensive when I just put the first vote on earlier today?

I'm not feeling RendeR particularly, but I'll switch in a bit unless the situation changes. Sorry buddy. I'd rather be on LSG or GE.

I stated my reasons from the beginning, killing a non active player saves the majority of the village for a night AND gains us knowledge of whatever role they played NOT being in the game.

He returned, I no longer had a reason to vote that way, so I took off my vote.

Transparency darling, its something you should try. You're argument reeks of deflection and confusing the facts.

No logic needed there.

I stated that a wait-and-see approach made a hell of a lot more sense than wasting the day's vote. If we just vote out the inactive player then the bad guys have an easy place to hide their votes if that person isn't one of them, so we learn little to nothing from that vote; there was a chance the inactive player could still show up, WHICH HE DID; we didn't know if EagleFan would be taking care of the issue himself, so why not give it a day or so to find out?

The fact that you keep trying to spin what I'm clearly stating should be telling to everyone else here.

The fact that Telle was adamant that we don’t vote for Bhlloy and that Bhlloy did a throwaway vote against me makes me think one (or both) are on the bad side of this one.

It’s day 1. What is there to conclusively say?

I wasn't adamant that we don't vote for bhlloy. I was adamant that we don't default-vote the inactive player. I didn't care who it was. As a good guy, I have no idea whatsoever which side bhlloy is on. He very well could be a villager or vampire. Now that he's here, please feel free to vote for him!

It wasn’t exactly a run away vote on him at any point though.

What you're clearly stating is what makes no sense, you'd rather kill off an active player than someone who was not.

If in fact Bhlloy had never shown up you'd have lost us a 2nd player out of 10 instead of just 1, we'd still not know what bhlloys role was so that variable remains.

assuming there are multiple factions at work here and possibly 3 kills a night, had bhlloy NOT returned YOUR plan would have us down to 6 players after night 1 with no more information than we started with.

again, you're defended has returned, so now you get to act all high and mighty as if what you were saying had any merit to begin with.

and as stated, I have followed my statements to the letter, he's back, I changed my vote.

if I didn't have to save my own to defend myself thanks to you, I'd be moving my vote your way.

convenient how that works in your favor, hm?

If my spreadsheet is accurate.. 6 of the first 10 votes were for bhlloy, with the other 4 votes split on 2 people.

There's always lots to say, even on day 1. For example why you are voting or unvoting people. Quiet people who are trying very hard to not piss anyone off, and go with the crowd multiple times without much explanation have a habit of being a bit suspect.

A death with no information about it is a complete and utter waste. That's what a default-vote for a no-show would be.

And the number of deaths only matter if they're good guys that are dead. With the bandwagonning on voting for bhlloy because he hadn't shown up yet, it's likely he was a good guy and you and your bad guy friends were hoping to get an easy kill.

At any given time it was never more than a 2 vote difference. 5-3 was where it maxed out, then things leveled out more and there hasn't been a more than 1 vote difference since.

UNVOTE bhlloy
VOTE henry296

I want to see where things go from here and force those who have an inconsequential vote at the moment to make some decisions.

You're right. Looking closer at the spreadsheet, one of the votes for henry was an unvote of bhlloy. So the net number on him only got to 5, but there were still 6 votes for him within the first 10 votes.

I'm very interested to know why RendeR and Henry aren't on me right now. Either very bad bad teammates who have been caught with their pants down and are waiting to try to find the right time to sacrifice one if needed, or genuine villagers who we might not want to lose. Hmmmmm.... we'd be very lucky if we had 2 of the baddies in the top 3 day 1.

I'm pretty sure I've made it clear that learning his role would be a very important piece of information, thats not nothing, along with the fact that it keeps all the active players alive at the same time, is also not nothing

It negates your entire argument.

And now you're blatantly accusing me of being bad on night 1? Interesting.

It is probably too late to get much momentum going on Telle today, but I certainly think that is somewhere we can look tomorrow.

unvote LSG
Vote henry296

No point in being the only vote on somebody 20 mins before deadline, and interested to see some movement between the 2 up there

vote Telle

That is my best guess. I don’t have any reason to strongly suggest anyone else. We are all blind and she is making something out of nothing.

RendeR 3 - britrock88 (142), Telle (145), Chief Rum (221)
henry296 3 - Autumn (82), timmae (93), GoldenEagle (~255)
LoneStarGirl 1 - bhlloy (230)
bhlloy 1 - LoneStarGirl (231)

RendeR and henry holding onto their votes; LSG and bhlloy locked onto each other with maybe the more consequential outlying votes as things stand.

I've stated this, multiple times. My entire reasoning was based on you being a no-show.

That is no longer the case, so I moved my vote.

As stated above I'd have it on Telle right now based on her specious arguments the entire time and her atypical aggressive tone in everything she's been posting.

Unfortunately I like staying alive, so until I am safe I have to save my vote for defense.

Dang, this was current as of 258 and obviously out-of-date by the time I finished it.

We already know that at least one role isn't in the game. It's not unlikely that multiple roles aren't in the game. How would knowing one role that's no longer in the game help anything? The vote record is the most important piece of data in this game. If people default-vote, that data for day 1 becomes meaningless.

FWIW if i'd really been inactive night 1 I'd have expected to be voted off, and would 100% vote that way as a goodie. But I also think it's stupid to think a baddie would defend the inactive baddie in that situation, so I don't like RendeR's logic here.

(and yes I've conflated wolf and villager like seventeen times already, so I'll be using generic goodie/baddie terms moving forward)

Unvote Bhlloy

Vote Render

A tie this late can cause some interesting movement. I’m staying by my computer until 9:00

#267
RendeR and henry296 tied w/ 4 votes each, 1 for me

Funny enough, now that bhlloy is here, I'm having the same problem. Why does the above post make it seem like there are no other options, when Henry is there with votes on the table? It feels like people are actively avoiding choosing him as an option. So many people that I now feel like I'm missing something.

I’m not moving to Render since we have the same point of view. I’m willing to sacrifice myself for the information to the team. I have no role so I’m not a big loss.

As I said, I will break or cause a tie in self defense. I am willing to consider other votes if I know I am safe near deadline. I agree with GE, Telle needs to be seriously studied for tomorrow.

We've seen lots of votes, that will be useful eventually. Does someone have the vote count as of "deadline" last night handy?

What does "same point of view" mean?

? If you're considering self-voting, that makes no sense whichever side of the game you're on. If you're a good guy, don't be stupid and cause us to lose one! If you're a baddie, your numbers are already limited so why would you do that? Unless you're a baddie and know that RendeR is one too but he's a more powerful one so if it comes down to the two of you then it's better for you to die than him?

Maybe it is not to late to get something going on Telle.

UNVOTE henry296
VOTE Telle

This is a strange take. Even a vanilla villager is very valuable in this format. And yeah, what exactly do you mean?

This reads as a good guy giving an honest read.

Feels like the classic "go passive aggressive close to deadline to save self" move to me. I'm actually feeling better about this vote right now.

GE, to me part of what makes Telle suspicious is her defense of Henry yesterday, so I'm happy with a Henry vote tonight as that will tell us whether that was actually suspicious or not.

My vote was never solid on henry. I just wanted to see what the movement looked like. I find Telle's reasoning of defending the no show vote very strange. I think she pushed that narrative a bit too hard.

Post #149 last night, shortly before 10pm. No votes after that before what was then the deadline.

We are making the same argument about Telle.

This frees up others to move in response.

UNVOTE RendeR
VOTE Telle

I think it also gives us a pretty good read on britrock, given that drive by above

There is at least some chance the RendeR has a more valuable role than me and therefore it is better for him to stay.

When was I defending henry?

Vote update??

My spidey sense is tingling right now with BR showing up 10 before deadline to move heat off henry, I have to say

If you all jump on me now, PLEASE "vote RendeR" tomorrow after you see that I come up good. No, this isn't desperate effort to sway you vote now. Just DO NOT FORGET tomorrow. Please.

I haven’t left...

Well, what I mean is your seeming allergy to voting Henry.

I agree with that.

4-3 Telle over Henry? I'm not moving, I think over the last 30 mins I'm feeling really good about a henry lynch

4-3-3, Telle on the block.

Me 4, RendeR 3, henry 3

? Because I wanted to vote RendeR? Honestly at this point I'm thinking they're both on the bad side.