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Vote CR |
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Vote mauchow |
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Vote Telle |
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Vote Julio Riddols |
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I read back and I don't see where she came back to the thread after her string of voting prior to deadline. |
Unvote Julio
Vote brit |
No strong reason to vote brit, just would like to see him more engaged, if his work allows.
Is there merit in trying to suss out which roles a wolf captain or villager captain might go towards? For me, Larry Dallas stands out as one I'd really like to have as a wolf to have a chance to short-circuit the seer / BG / role that follows someone else, or at least hit a village role with a 100% guarantee whereas if they were on the village side, it would be of much less use, except maybe late in the game. A wolf captain might've wanted to deny the village a helpful role like Les Nessman also (that one would probably be high on both lists). And some of the roles have very unclear abilities, so this may not be so useful. For the village captain out there, I'm on your side, you might want to consider what other roles you had higher than mine on your priority list as a possible bit of info whether they are good or not. Without giving yourself away of course. :) I'll try and pop on over lunch, it's going to be another long day for me though. |
So Klink, if he is out there, will know whether or not yourself of font is good or bad.
I guess the key then is to find out which side Klink is on. |
Could font's behavior indicate that of Screech? Maybe someone who knows WW better gets the references of "deviant" and "easily distracted?"
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So a bit of Googling: deviant = only wins if he is killed That correct? |
I can't find details on the deviant role anywhere because I seem to be awful at googling and I don't have a boardgamegeek account in order to download one of the comprehensive lists you can find there, but from watching people play the video game on Youtube I gather that this is indeed the Deviant's purpose.
I suspect that the roles here are mostly hybrids though. Some of the descriptions in post 3 leave a lot to the imagination as well. Are they just vanilla villagers? Are there any vanilla villagers in this game? We're gonna have to push a domino over and hope it falls in the right direction tonight. |
Good morning. Catching up a bit. Will be in and out during the day.
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Just caught up. I will not be voting for JAG today -- my reason for voting him yesterday is that if he's a villager I want him to become a cleared villager as soon as possible, and hopefully knowing his role will help us to do that. Gotta go read the roles now and figure out what we know.
JAG, I think it is useful to consider what roles the wolf captain might have gunned for, particularly ones that the village captain probably wouldn't have. |
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GOtcha |
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Yes |
DOla cause I can't edit. There is a similar role in the game Town of Salem too that has to be lynched to win. It always puts people on edge because you never know whether they are being mean normally or with this role, and so forth. If you broadcast it too much no one votes for you and you lose. Don't know if that's what that roles does, necessarily, only that player and the GM would know for sure, but that's the idea.
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My thoughts on the roles...
Larry Dallas - Typical role blocker. Probably not a high priority for wolves. Terri Alden I'm presuming from the coloring is neutral, did EF say the neutral got to draft anyone? Could kill a wolf, so good to keep around if we can. So Burns can scan but not reveal his scans, is that everyone's take? But can make a one-time kill. So we want to keep him alive long enough to find a wolf. Or a supposed one, since his scan isn't 100% Natalie - I assume the night kill is her special move. Skippy - Adds to the unreliability of scans, meaning we need to focus on other intelligence. Klink - Might be a high target for both teams to draft. Nessman - Not clear how much detail Les gets from following someone. Typically would just be that they had a night action. Again, an unreliable one, so not too much use. Roz - Some type of bodyguard, high priority draft for either side really, but more likely villagers. Harper - completely mystery. Probably not a wolf priority. Potsie Weber seems worrisome, maybe a vigilante, with a one-time kill? Someone the wolves might try to draft. Both Screech and Bud say "always trying to fit in", which seems important somehow. Another role blocker? But unreliable. Not sure what Bud's writeup would mean. Unfortunately, since I was hoping we'd find a role we could use to confirm allegiance somehow. Wayne Arnold - moves a vote I assume? Mel Sharples - probably a duke role Murdock - Again the phrase "loyal". Does this mean that we have a conversion mechanic at play? If I had to guess what the wolves might have prioritized, I'd say Klink, Potsie, Mel and Wayne. In a small game controlling even one vote could be a game changer, as would an extra kill, and knowing roles would be very helpful for the wolves. Though thinking on the second level, captain might have mixed it up to throw us off the path. How many wolves do we think? Two or three? If there's a possibility of conversion, which I think is likely, probably just two. |
Autumn, fontisian, I was looking at the roles last night and trying to figure out, if I was Nat, who'd I'd draft, and I think there are two ways and two strategies to do it.
1). Go for the night-win. Draft two roles you think would really help, and then go for wins with the various decisions and such 2). Go for thread-play. Grab two roles you think have little value and won't be hunted much in thread. Then try to win here. And I suppose #3, try to balance it. If I were Natalie the head bad, I think I'd go the thread-play route and grad weaker roles, in order to push things around, but I could see folks doing the other as well, you know? |
Alright, off for work for a long while. See y'all post-work, (I'm in CST time now).l
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Anyone else have a problem with the forum with the "go to new post" thing not working?
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Yes, the same logic worked for both of you but he was first ;) |
I have a super busy day of meetings at work so probably won't be able to contribute much until this evening, but I'll check in as I can
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Yeah, though I've always had weirdness with that functionality. Definitely has been even worse the past couple of days though |
With one presumed neutral and others that seem like they could potentially have win conditions of their own, I could see either two or three wolves. Although if teams were picked does that mean the villager team gets to PM? That's another wrinkle that would probably push me to think there are at least 3 wolves
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Catching up now, FYI.
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Votes as of post 224
britrock88 1 - JAG (206) |
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Just to make sure things are clear.. so you don't need a name after an "unvote"? And in post 193 fontisian did not actually put the word "vote" in front of Julio Riddols' name but you're counting it based upon assumed intention? |
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Even though there was no "vote" in front of my name? Just trying to clarify. My anticipation was that font didn't actually have a vote at the moment because she unvoted and then just wrote my name in bold without a "vote" in front of it. |
There is an eerie quiet hanging in the air. The vision from last night is still alarming to everyone. What could have happened to that poor man? Why did it happen?
The folding chairs are now aligned in a row facing the "entertainment center" which the sanitarium has so graciously provided you. When this facility was recommended to you there were rants and raves about how much money they had to use on your rehab. Now you see why they have the money, they obviously don't spend it. How exactly do they get that money? The fee to come here doesn't seem like it would even cover the bare bones provisions you have bee provided, let alone cover the legendary spending habits of the facility's owner. You think that you maybe should have read some of those papers that you signed before being admitted, maybe they would have provided a clue. They were in such a hurry trying to get you to the program so you could recover that you were rushed through those papers. Oh well, how bad could they have been? Speaking of therapy; why isn't there any on the schedule? |
I would think 2-3 wolves with the chance to convert at least one more, and maybe a wild card out there with no allegiance.
I've been reading up on typical roles but I think this game has some extra flavor going on. For now, I'm gonna throw out a random vote and keep an eye on things. |
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It's not so much whether Font is good or bad, but what character she is. Distinguishing players, characters, roles/powers, and alignments in this game will be tricky, I feel. |
VOTE AUTUMN
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Yes, quite. Lots of variables, lots of unknowns. I'm sure some of us don't even know what our capabilities truly are yet and it will take a specific event to trigger that. There is so much to figure out I almost feel like we kind of have to just vote for someone, anyone, and hope the result is beneficial. |
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Funny that we learn the owner of the role that's basically a blank slate. Just for reference, Bud is "the life of the party, in his own mind"; "tries to fit in with the others but sticks to himself in reality"; and "may develop abilities depending on his alignment." All those uncertainties aside, I agree that there's a sliver of a probabilistic edge to steer away from JAG, as he cannot possibly be Natalie, the only certain bad role. |
I believe I said something last night about how learning a role but not knowing the allegiance would likely be a distraction, so I agree that just piling on JAG would not be optimal.
Then again, maybe he's a wolf and it's the fellow wolves that have been pushing this line of thought today? |
We've spent some time discussing voting mechanics. JR (posts 95-99) and Font (posts 101-108) had the most interesting sequences of votes on D0. It's hard to tease apart the role that our long dormancy will play in producing errant votes from the potential misdirection that could be caused.
Now that we're in D1, JAG has also picked up on Font's game of trying to block Klink's power (with the added efficacy that JAG's role is already public). I'm not sure what Font's role is, and what would motivate her to self-sacrifice to occupy Klink. But it's interesting to note that at least two players have concluded that they see Klink's power as something likelier to be used for evil. Remember also that the team captains put in priority lists for roles--I'm not sure it's a certainty that Klink ends up on Team Bad. There are a lot of mechanics that EF's keeping under wraps (presumably for balance and intrigue purposes). For instance, how large are the respective teams? Abe has assumed that Team Bad totals 3 in an earlier post; we've also had a question about whether our Neutral could draft. |
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Hi, Telle! Not a bad proposition. Natalie would have submitted the Team Bad draft list before last night's result, but if she ended up with Bud Bundy... Oh, and just for consistency's sake, ... |
vote Telle
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Corrected the vote totals from earlier. My eyes played tricks on me for that last one.
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Votes as of post 238
britrock88 1 - JAG (206) Autumn 1 - Julio Riddols (232) Telle 1 - britrock88 (238) |
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Right that's what I meant. If Natalie had happened to drafted Bud Bundy, then the wolves could be trying a bit of misdirection today to prevent the pile-on from happening and losing one of their number right off the bat. |
Heh. I feel like I give a decent synopsis of my thoughts on the game thus far and I'm still 11th out of 13 players in post count. Yay, my D0 activity!
Looking ahead, I'll check in periodically until 5p CT, and then I'll be AFK until after deadline. Hate to break it to you guys, but date night's more important. :p |
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This seems like the kind of thing a villager should know. |
vote the jackal
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So the next question is this: what roles would be more attractive to which teams, based on their descriptions? And what's the likelihood of them ending up on either team, based on things we don't know like the sizes of the teams? I'll say objectively that Bud could be promising for either side, though the powers of Bad players are typically greater than of Good to make up for the typical lack of strength in numbers--but does that hold here? Mental note to circle back to Autumn's analysis of the role descriptions and maybe try to tease out what roles we might want to look for as being likely Bad recruits. |
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Nice catch. Cultist-type role, you wonder? It's such low-hanging fruit, and the suggestion goes against typical WW setups. |
EagleFan - Can you elaborate at all on Klink's power? "The first vote against him on any day will result in him learning the role of the player who voted against him." Does that mean the first of ANY vote? Or the first vote that's still counted at the end of the game (thus not unvoted)?
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Not sure what you mean, I mean I assume if there's a villager captain/team they get to PM, I was mostly saying that would push me to think there are at least 3 wolves because villagers don't usually get to PM |
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He means that if you're a villager you should already know if villagers get to PM and not need to be pondering it "out loud" in the game. |
That post definitely got a hairy eyeball from me on reading back just now.
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Aren't we all (except the wolves) technically villagers? That's what I mean here, usually there aren't PM rights for people beyond the wolves unless there's lover roles or multiple wolf teams like we've seen in some games. If we've got some standard villager roles getting to be on a team and getting to PM, that seems to me to be a bonus for our overall win conditions. Can't speak to the random individual win conditions but also don't care about those in the grand scheme of things I don't see the harm in that being "pondered out loud", nor I guess is it super relevant at this point how many wolves there are, especially since we don't know whether conversions are a possibility, though there's so much unknown that I'd expect it is under certain conditions |
Could there be 3 teams or would that be too much? We have a brown, a green and a red name in post 3. Surely there is a reason for that.
Maybe there is a small batch of characters that have motives completely ulterior to sussing out wolves or killing off villagers. I think we really have to consider that we only truly know ourselves and what we can do, and we know that JAG is Bud Bundy and he may have allegiance to any of potentially 3 teams. I'm eager to hear font's explanation for her odd vote habits which have at this point resulted in no vote for day 1. Still some other people yet to check in today as well, I'd like their take on the current state of affairs as well. |
Unless I'm misunderstanding and the "villager" led Burns team is something the village needs to deal with too? I suppose there aren't even win conditions listed in the rules now that I read back again
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Do we know if we win if the wolf team is defeated? Has that been covered previously that I've missed?
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Maybe the ultimate goal is to escape this facility, heh.
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The rules do say two people are captains, so I think it's safe to assume two teams FWIW
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Ah yeah, two team captains. Ok then.
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I think if I was wolf captain my first pick would be Skippy - not only going to scan as villager but breaks the seer scans for the rest of the game.
In fact, I'd be willing to bet my strategy would be to draft that person and then try to draw a scan on day 1 |
I'd also probably go after Nessman, to try and find people with particular skills? A lot of the roles are pretty vague but those are the two that stand out to me
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Following that logic, I feel like one person has already said something designed to attract subtle attention, so let's do this for now
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Vote Jackal
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Russell is also an obvious high pick for both teams. Getting solidly into "what if" now but in strategy above Skippy and Russell would be a good combo - try to draw the scan on day 1 with a protect in the back pocket
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Let's follow that pondered out loud to its logical conclusion. It is possible we could have lovers here? Sure! But what roles? This is a flavor-first game, right? It's not like Dallas and Bud are getting a little kinky behind the scenes, because they are from different shows. In fact, I don't know that any of these characters are from the same show either. And how could you plan to have lovers for the village if people that are lovers could be drafted by the wolves? That makes no sense. So the only way a lovers-esque role that would work for the village is a post-draft one that connected someone. But who would that make sense for? Jeffrey Murdock's "loyalty?" I feel like that 's a reach. At best, I think any musings on villagers with PMs is just chipping at a wall made of adamantium with a toothbrush, barring some sort of something that we see to suggest it. |
As of right now, I still don't see a stronger alternative to fontisian.
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Vote fontisian
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I like font as a possible cultist. I just don't see the wolf captain bring that loud and bold on day 0, and nobody else knew their alignment at that point
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What trips me out is that almost every character has a built in flaw seemingly. They might get distracted, or they might not see things right, etc. We'll hardly be able to trust what we learn from using our skills.
And there are 15 roles up there but only 13 players, so who knows which 2 roles don't exist. I think the only guaranteed roles are the 3 colored roles and Bud Bundy at this point. |
Did anyone know their alignment during day 0?
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Ok, the captains apparently.
Sorry, my reading comprehension seems like it has gone kinda shitty. I keep having to go back and re-read the first few posts. |
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It only occurred to me right now that yes, the captains knew their allegiance day 0. I've been thinking that day zero was useless, but of course (and I'm sure you've all been thinking it already) we might be able to gain some information on what a captain would do. Will probably only be useful later in the game when we've narrowed things down. |
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The villagers *are* the Burns-led team. You seem to be suggesting some sort of inner circle? My understanding is that other than the colored roles, every player could have been on either team, and that every player was either drafted by the wolves or by the villagers. Are you suggesting that some subset of villagers could PM? Because I believe Burns "selected" all of the villagers. |
This makes me wonder if the people who broke the tie late are people that need to be considered.. Or the person the vote was moved off of. I can't think for the life of me what the motive for that would have been if nobody was going to die on night zero anyway.
I feel like a tie would have potentially revealed 2 roles, and one of those roles was protected.. Possibly by one of the captains. |
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But at that point no one knew any roles but their own, correct? So definitely a captain about to get revealed might make a move, but they couldn't coordinate with anyone else. |
I wonder. I guess the captains probably drafted based on character names and not our usernames.
I think maybe I'm just slightly bitter because I think a tie would have been worthwhile even if the mechanism for a tie was different on day 0 than it will be from here on out, heh. |
My thought was that if a captain had a specific role in mind that they wanted to keep out of the spotlight, that that captain could have made a move to keep the role from being revealed, as some of these roles are pretty descriptive and the knowledge of who has one of the more powerful roles would have been a big deal for one team or the other.
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Times like this I wish I was a more experienced player. I gotta defer to the more experienced of you and try to get a deeper understanding of motives and reasoning that way. I'll check back in later and try to absorb what I can.
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Are you suggesting that the people not selected on those two teams are -not- villagers (aside from maybe the neutral)? I think this is becoming a semantics discussion. Wolves = bad Villagers = good But are we saying people not on Burns' team are not "villagers" in this sense? Does Burns team actually have our best interests at heart? My original feeling on that 2nd question was that yes, it's just a team of villagers that's actually able to PM and that's good for the village overall, but now I don't know |
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Yeah, if they knew something about usernames, I could see that. But I think not knowing roles, they couldn't infer anything from the day zero movement. Unless the choices they made in the draft suggested to them a tie would either be good or bad for their team. |
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Either I confused myself with semantics or I'm on some different page - are we considering the Burns led team to be essentially another team that the rest of us need to eliminate in addition to the wolves? Maybe it was the green coloring, but it seemed to me this is a "good guy" team, why is it weird to suggest they are able to PM? |
If I'm being obtuse please let me know, maybe I need another red eye haha
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Because by suggesting so you're suggesting that you're not on the good team? |
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I clearly didn't anticipate the vote everyone play. Today will be the first vote. From here forward it will be the first official end of the day vote. |
Votes as of post 282
The Jackal 2 - Autumn (244), bhlloy (261) britrock88 1 - JAG (206) Autumn 1 - Julio Riddols (232) Telle 1 - britrock88 (238) fontisian 1 - Abe Sargent (265) |
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Well if we have a wolf team and a village team (plus a neutral individual I guess, if that role isn't one of the two not in the game?) then everybody are pretty much either wolves or villagers. Thus if you don't know if the villagers can PM, then you're not a villager.. 'cause you should know if you can PM or not, right? Unless you were specifically talking about some subset of the villagers, which may be what you've been trying to say in later posts? I actually got somewhat confused.. |
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Yet to vote: cheekimonk, tarcone, The Jackal, Chief Rum, Telle, mauchow |
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EF, no repeats might make more sense. A player who's willing to park their vote can still break this mechanic. |
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Lemme jump in--the teams were drafted overnight, as far as I can tell. And neither captain would have knowledge of players or their roles before the draft (with Natalie becoming aware afterward--dunno about Burns). |
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The more interesting question to me is what this might imply about Font's role. Her play doesn't strike me as unusual for her--she's a thoughtful and proactive villager, and an equally active/distracting wolf (relying on long-ago impressions here). Anyway, her willingness to role-block Klink suggests that she doesn't mind having Klink--who may be likelier than the average role to be Bad--knowing her role. It could be that she's in a role with seemingly pedestrian power. It could be that she's seeking identification as a fellow Bad. I dunno. |
I don't think the rules are really clear on exactly when the team leaders choose the roles they want on their teams. The draft is listed under "Day 0", but so is everyone learning their alignments which didn't happen until the night.
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Focusing just on the first part of this, as I'm fairly confident we'll all be thinking about Jackal until lynch. 13 players in the game. 1 neutral, for my money. We're looking at 9-3-1 as our likeliest distribution, I think. I could see a +/- of 1 depending on the relative power of the roles in play. |
Unvote Telle
Vote The Jackal |
Applying some pressure. Telle, I've taken my cursor off you, but grace us with a vote, would you? :)
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Yeah and I've only got about 15 minutes to figure out my vote.. I have plans most of the evening and can't guarantee that I'll have a chance to get online before 10pm EST. I hate these early votes! :) |
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Just putting these together for convenience's sake. Hoping to mull this over for a bit, but no time now. |
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Sorry.. left out fontisian too as someone yet to vote. I was looking for people with blanks in my spreadsheet, and didn't think about all the voting and then unvoting technically ending in an unvote. |
Ok, I'm going with fontisian. Mostly because I don't want to bandwagon on The Jackal.
Have we speculated yet on whether or not fontisian might actually BE Klink? All that voting could just be a distraction. She can't vote for herself, so it wouldn't diminish her ability. But then there's still the question of would Klink be a villager or a wolf? Well sorry to vote and run, but as I mentioned just previously I may not be around again before deadline. |
vote fontisian
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I was going to say that I don't like way Abe is pursuing my lynch, but considering that it started in Day 0, likely before he knew his alignment, it can't really be considered alignment indicative, which is frustrating. If the town team leader recruited all of the town roles, then couldn't we just all claim our roles and have the town leader point out which ones he didn't recruit? Surely it can't be that easy, which means drafting must have worked differently. |
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