I think it is a bad deal for the M's. Figgins will be 32 when the season starts and has only played one full season the last three. Four years for an injury prone, 32 year old guy is a lot. I think it may work out the first two years, but I can see them getting really stuck on the back end of this deal.

Sometimes it works to have two different sets of rules for stars and everybody else. This is Sparky's first spring training speech as told in Posnanski's new book on the Big Red Machine.

I'm not terribly concerned about that. Even considering the economic downturn, $9M per season for Figgins is likely undervaluing him. Even if he regresses a bit from last year's hitting numbers, he'll still be worth the money.

It's always cool to have guys that are easy to root for on a personal level - Edgar Martinez will always be beloved in Seattle for much more than his great hitting - but what really excites me about Figgins is getting another patient bat in the lineup and a good on-base guy for the top of the lineup.

I would suspect that Ichiro remains the leadoff hitter, but either way you go it's nice to have those two at the top of the lineup.

That got me thinking (Ichiro/Figgins). I think I'd rather have Figgins 1st and Ichiro 2nd. Figgins is about 10 points below Ichiro for career OBP but the spread between his BA and OBP is about 70 points where as Ichiro's is only 40 since he doesn't take many walks. So, over the course of the season, I think 10 points of OBP would be wiped out by the extra bases a fast runner like Figgins would take on an extra 30 points in hits.

SI

Also, although Ichiro is fast, too, and steals bases, he doesn't seem to create the kind of trepidation/fear from batteries that Figgins does, who is more along the lines of a Crawford or an Ellsbury in impression/impact. So Ichiro at the #2 would see a lot more fastballs. And he would be able to do more with them than Figgins. A lot of fastballs to Ichiro == nothing good for teams playing the M's.

So Pat Burrell has been reportedly traded to the Cubs who have in turn traded him to the Mets.

If true...poor Pat, he's gone from the Penthouse to the shithouse in little over a year.

Edit: There are some sources denying it so. Hopefully the denials are true.

Too bad we don't play in Shea anymore.

my thought exact.

It'll be interesting to see how Philly fans treat Pat the Bat.

I remember hearing a while ago about a deal involving the Cubs, Mets and Rays that involved Burrell, Bradley and Castillo. Pretty much just exchanging one problem for another.... wonder if there is any truth to it.

From what I read it was discussed a little, but nothing serious ever came of it. Every team seems to want the cubs to pay some of Bradley's salary and the Cubs are only offering around $5 million.

1:54pm: Cryptic tweet from Ed Price of AOL FanHouse: "Rumor that Mets acquire Edwin Jackson." Price then updated that the rumor was "heard in the lobby" but not confirmed.

This will be interesting between Dombrowski and Minaya. Is it possible for both GM's to be raped in a trade?

Never a good sign for the acquiring team when an already young pitcher is being shopped for more young pitching, especially when it's coming off a 2nd half slide.

Jackson will be a fine 3 to 4 starter in the NL. Detroit doesn't want to pay him what he'll make in arbitration and he's a Boras guy so I doubt they wanted to even attempt to resign him.

A young pitcher that will then be on his fourth team.

If the Mets get him, I guarantee they pay more than 3/4 starter price.

Well do you have any young pitchers who touch 100 and need to develop secondary pitches or white middle infielders who are any good?

FWIW Price is backing down hard on that one.

Well, David Wright's been hitting like a 1980s middle infielder recently...

Sounds like it's not gonna be the Mets, but he will be gone pretty soon.

Looks something was brewing with the Yankees, but they backed out.

It's looking like Granderson to the Yankees may be a done deal now. Detroit would get Austin Jackson and Phil Coke from New York and Max Scherzer and Daniel Schlereth from Arizona. Arizona would get Edwin Jackson and Ian Kennedy.

Well reports are now saying Schlereth may not be in the deal. Would be disappointing for me if he wasn't.

I'm seeing Schlereth still in the deal, per Ed Price a moment ago.

If this is the deal then Detroit did really, really well here.

I would like to take the time to thank Arizona for being utterly retarded and getting involved in a deal that made no sense from their perspective.

Without what they gave us, this is an awful deal for Grandy, but now with Mad Max (who I love) and Schlereth I am quite a fan.

Grandy is my favorite Tiger in many, many moons. Wish him the best in the Bronx.

Yep, not a bad haul by the Tigers there.

I hope Arizona at least got a reach around included.

ESPN is saying:

Sources: Trade sending Curtis Granderson to New York Yankees nearing completion - ESPN

Arizona just giving up Scherzer and not Schlereth.

Interesting. Sure hope it's not the case. It'd be a bad time for an ESPN report to actually be true.

Way to go Tigers!

Gammons just said Schlereth is in the deal. MLB.com is also saying Schlereth is a part of it.

I like this move from a Yankees standpoint. Now we don't feel compelled to bring back Damon as a position player, and Granderson is in his prime, right when this team is stacked to win.

I hope Austin Jackson turns into a good player for the Tigers.

If Schrlreth is in the deal, MLBTR has it mentioned that the four players are going to be under Tigers control for a combined 22 years. That is a huge, huge aspect to this deal.

Figured. I think it was obvious the Tigs wanted to replace the two holes in the pen with any move so a fourth guy had to be in it.

The other interesting thing now is that the Tigers have 4 lefties in their bullpen. Seems like an overkill although Seay and Coke are both guys who can come in vs righties. Only Ni seems like a LOOGY.

Dammit. Good deal for the Yankees. Even if Jackson and Kennedy are solid 3/4 starters with deflated numbers from pitching in the NL west I agree it makes little to no sense from Arizona's perspective.

Great deal for Yankees damn it. They gave up good prospects but nothing they can't replace or anything that negatively alters the team on the field from last season . I hope the Sox get a move on and sign Matt Holiday. I would like them to get Gonzalez from San Diego also. Plus they need a decent starter not necessarily a ace but a #3 would be good. Halladay is too rich for my blood.

you'd rather holiday than bay?

i guess i haven't dug in and done enough research to know (to my shame), but is holiday an upgrade over bay, or just a bigger "name?". fine...5 minutes of research shows me that they're basically identical players offensively. give me whoever will come cheaper please.

i'd also like to see gonzalez, but i don't think he's moving. price for halladay is also too rich for me...concentrate on what you've got and a reclamation-project or three for short money (Ben Sheets?).

Holliday is easily an upgrade over Bay.

Holliday, at worst, is a league average fielder. Bay is at the very least a below average fielder and if you buy into some of the advanced fielding metrics, he's one of the worst fielders in the leauge. I know that from just watching Bay for a season and a half his defense leaves a lot to be desired.

Holliday's a year younger and far better defensively than Bay (i.e. league average or slightly better). Bay has "proven he can hit in Boston" - I personally don't think Holliday would have an issue like Renteria did. We'd also gain a 1st and 1st round supplemental in exchange for a 2nd if sign Holliday instead of Bay. But really the main difference is going to be contract length. If we could get Bay for 3 or Holliday for 5 I would love it, but since this is likely the last big deal for each they both obviously want more years. Bay seems to be garnering more interest at the price they're floating, so it's quite possible we could leverage Holliday down if Bay signs with the Angels/Mariners now that the Yankees are out, but Boras is his agent so it wouldn't be easy or quick.

dola

2009 OPS+

Holliday - 139
Bay - 134

so you could say they're close to a wash offensively. Holliday is a year and a half younger and a far better fielder. My biggest fear is giving Bay 17 million a year for 4 or 5 years and then watching his defense continue to deteriorate to the point that he's basically a 17 million dollar DH in two years.

fair enough

Gammons is leaving ESPN

I'm actually pretty sad about that. Liked Gammons a lot.

MLBtv?

Gammon has annoyed me. The way he was a PR person for the Red Sox was tiresome and he seemed to have grown quite a hatred for the statistical community in recent years.

Despite that, the guy did a lot for baseball sportswriting (which could also be bad or good I guess).

Gammons will be working for NESN and the MLB Network next season per the Globe's Amalie Benjamin.

+1

I have a lot of respect for Gammons as a baseball writer, but in recent years he's started to grate on me - too Boston-centric, and showing a bit of an attitude towards the sabermetric crowd (though in fairness he's also far more accepting of sabermetrics than many of his contemporaries...)

Randy Wolf to the Brewers, 3 years just under $30 million.

Gammons is one of the few people in the sports media I believe. He's very well connected, and with that does come a necessary degree of not really going after certain players/teams - but that's never been his role anyway.

I mean, check out the college football threads. There's ridiculous amount of "done deal" reports that are nothing more than total lies. I think people forget after the fact, how wrong these "insiders" are, ALL the time.

Having seen Holiday play a bunch on TV and about 15 games at the stadium in Denver Holiday is a great player and really all said and done would be a upgrade over Bay. I think we saw the best we could see from Bay who was playing for a contract. Holiday we saw the worst in Oakland a notorious hitters park. I think he would do well in Fenway and is a better fielder. But, it sounds like Epstein may just sit tight and not sign any of these guys but instead bring back Coco crisp to platoon with Jeremy Heredia. Sox fans should brace for 2006 all over again.
http://www.boston.com/sports/columni...said_that.html

Doesn't look like there's a huge market for either of them, although it's hard to tell what's posturing and what isn't.

yeah...i saw that earlier. poopey. i don't think this franchise with its resources should ever be in a "bridge" year. particularly not a "bridge year" to guys who are in SINGLE A right now and we're still not sure if they'll pan out.

oh well, if that's the case at least i won't have to pay to go to the ballpark or spent a ton of time getting invested in the team.

Honestly, I'd rather they come up with a backup solution then overpay for something that's going to be a problem in a few years.

meaning what (and i ask that honestly)??

a backup-solution is fine, but if you as much as raise a white flag before the season starts and say "this is a bridge year...don't expect anything" then i dunno how you get fans excited. at least speaking for me personally i have enough else competing for my attention that if the team isn't going to be competitive and have the potential to go deep into the postseason then i would rather spend my time doing other things.

And if that somehow makes me a "fair weather fan" in somebody's eyes (not saying you Ronnie), then fuck you very much. I don't ask them to win the World Series every year or anything, just try. Just put in the effort. If they don't want to do that, then I don't think it's a horrible thing for me to say "I have other more rewarding ways to spend my time." It's a transaction - they try to win and I reward them with my $$ or my eyeballs. If they as an organization don't put forth a level of effort that I feel is commensurate with their stature and their financial weight, then I don't feel an obligation to pour my time down the figurative drain (162 games x 4 hours a game = a shitload of time).

I agree but there version of backup solutions are platooning with a pair of washed mid 30 outfileders in Hererdia and Crisp good god no. And their pitcher to add maybe Tim Harden:( Halladay I hate to say it will be wearing a Yankees uni for the next 5 years.

Considering they average a sell out at Fenway and they've still got the highest rated local TV of any team (and would still be the highest rated if they took another 7% drop) I'm going to take a shot in the dark here & guess they'll be okay with that ;)

I'm sure they would be. I'm just stating my position...and I think it's pretty understandable.

They also do need to be aware as an organization though that that's something they have to keep an eye on. The days of the 80's when they didn't sell out every game at Fenway and they weren't crazy-popular aren't so far gone that they are immune to them I wouldn't think.

NESN probably helps mitigate that a lot, but not entirely I wouldn't think.

Agreed. I am surprised they would tip their hand to the Yanks especially by letting them know help yourself we are ona diet at the serving line?

I'm a little disappointed to see that the Rangers are closing in on what looks like a very reasonable deal on Rich Harden ($7.5M) - not sure why the M's aren't the ones closing such a deal with him given a) need, b) Harden's ties to the area, and c) the entirely reasonable financial terms.

Makes sense considering they just dealt Millwood. I wish the Mets went after Harden, especially for this price. Guy is dominant when he stays healthy, I know that's a big if, but he's worth a shot.

+2

As someone posted on Royals Review: "The funny thing is, this will have no appreciable effect on his life or his work. All he ever does is talk to and about the Yankees and the Red Sox anyway, so why not be rid of the (admittedly very thin) veneer of journalistic neutrality needed to work for ESPN?"

SI

I think they dealt Millwood to clear room in the budget for Harden - at least that's what's been reported from some sites.

1 year at $7.5M is an entirely reasonable roll of the dice on a guy with Harden's ability. Yeah, he's a risk given his injury history, but that's not a lot of money, relatively speaking. I wonder how much of a buyout there is on the 2nd year option - seems highly one-sided if it's just the club option for $11.5M. Maybe there are a lot of incentives that can lock in a much higher 2nd year salary and come with an expensive buyout?

Given Harden's ties to the area, the advantages to his numbers of pitching in Safeco in front of our OF defense and the M's greater competitiveness potential than Texas, and I'm rather surprised Zduriencik wasn't the one to get him signed. I have to assume there are some unreported parts to the deal that Z wasn't comfortable with...

Millwood trade is pretty good for the O's. He'll give them 200 innings and take some of the load off the bullpen and the younger pitchers.

Getting him and cash for Ray is a steal, IMO... Even if Ray returns to form, which I doubt he will.

Now go bring Bedard back to Baltimore.

I don't get the hate for Gammons. He clearly was the classier Red Sox version of Jon Heyman, but as long as you knew that he was entertaining to read and had very good sources. He might not have been as good as Joe Posnanski the last 5/10 years, but considering what he did to build up the industry he was still one of the better ones out there.I didn't realize Reddick and Kalish were in SINGLE A (Westmoreland yes. Casey Kelly is overrated and I hope he is a centerpiece in a trade for Gonzalez, Fielder, or Hernandez). Theo, and effectively the Red Sox ownership, has said their goal is to realistically compete for the WS 8 out of 10 years every decade. Considering the dead weight we're carrying in Ortiz and Lowell and the lack of more than one true middle of the order power bat, we're likely at 1 of the 2 "rebuilding" years - where we'll probably still win 85+ games and compete for the WC at a minimum. Your solution is what... extend a long contract to Bay or Holliday so they can play the role of 2009 Mike Lowell in 3 years, send most of our best prospects for Halladay (who would then likely be extended and signal the departure of Beckett when his contract ends) and throw everything at this year while decreasing our chances the next 5? Sure I'd like to beat the Yankees every year, and I certainly don't want to go into a Marlins cycle of 4 terrible years for 1 shot at the WS, but we are 70-80 million dollars short of the Yankees on payroll and revenue. The only chance we have to match them on the field is by having 4-5 all-star caliber players being significantly underpaid in their pre-arb years (in 2007 it was Pedroia, Youkilis, Lester, Papelbon, to a lesser extent Ellsbury) to supplement the high-priced superstars (Ramirez, Ortiz, Beckett, Schilling). I agree they messed up by not overbidding 2-3m/y for Teixeira (how Duquette got Manny), but it doesn't change the fact that you need to surround those guys with multiple quality starters developed from within.Do you actually know who any of these players are? Crisp turned 30 last month, Hermida is 25, was a top 10 prospect 3 years ago and had an .870 OPS in a hitters park as a 23y/o. If we gave him a full season of at-bats there's a decent (15-20%?) chance he turns into a middle of the order bat that we got on the cheap - kind of like how we lucked into David Ortiz. Rich Harden, when (and that's a big if) healthy is a borderline Cy Young candidate. Considering we already have 2 #1's we're paying 12m+ (plus a potential #1 in Buchholz), signing Harden and hoping he's healthy for a full year is much, much smarter than trading for Halladay and giving him a big-money extension. If Halladay only wants a 5-year extension he'll be 38 at the end of it. I know he's a power pitcher and some of those guys can keep going strong until that age (especially if they, I mean their wife, take lots of steroids) but I'd think long and hard about giving him an 18m a year contract until then, let alone trading prospects for him.

In a completely non-snarky way I am interested in how you've developed this opinion.

nah - i don't want Halladay for the price that the Jays are asking.

but holliday is 29 and bay is what...just turned 30? neither of them have the body of a david ortiz...both should presumably still be productive at the end of a 5 year deal (albeit likely overpaid, but that's the way it works with FA contracts). maybe they're looking ahead to next year's FA class - but in my mind that's always risky because you can never be certain who will resign between now and then.

not sure i see bucholz as a potential #1 anymore...jury is still very much out on him.

Man, they must be REALLY high on this Ramirez guy! That or Theo was smoking something.

I'm all for moving Lowell, but eating $9mil of his $12m salary only saves you $3m plus you need to find a guy to play 3B (i'd say they want to move youk there and play VMart at 1B but they have told him he'll be the catcher I guess). All for a guy with a .217 average in 46 AB's.

*sigh* Apparently the Sox interest in Beltre is "significant."

Lord save us all.

hahah



The Twins designated right-hander Boof Bonser for assignment on Tuesday to make room for Carl Pavano on the 40-man roster. MLB.com


Carl Pavano is the gift that keeps on giving. First he gets us Pedro. Then he gives up one run in a complete game win against the Yankees in the 2003 World Series. Then he gets the Yankees to pay him 40 million dollars for 26 mostly sucktacular starts. Finally, he nets the Red Sox the guy with the greatest porn name in the history of baseball. Awesome.

One could argue that no one person has been more valuable to the Red Sox than Carl Pavano over the past 12 years. He's cemented his place in Red Sox history as the most valuable ex-Red Sox ever. He's the Jimmy Carter of Red Sox history.

I guess I don't understand the love for Rich Harden in this thread and elsewhere. Don't get me wrong, I do realize he is very talented and has put up some decent numbers but some of the warts he has turn me off. I've argued in circles with some Brewer fans disgusted that we signed Randy Wolf over Rich Harden.

Basically, Harden is a reliever that people keep using as a starter. He is a two pitch pitcher these days after abandoning his slider to keep the stress on his arm down. His maximum effort repertoire leads to a fair amount of walks and a high amount of strikeouts which leads to high pitch counts early in games. He averages less than six innings per start so he'll tax your bullpen. Then throw in his injury history and I just don't get the love for this guy as a starter.

Soon enough, somebody will see the light and turn him into a reliever, a role I feel he could be very dominant in. Until then, he'll be a five inning starter that walks too many guys and you can't necessarily rely on every fifth day.

Max Ramirez was a pretty nice C prospect until his injury-plagued last year. Describing him as "a guy with a .217 average in 46 AB's" is not really painting the whole picture.

In the old days of Diamond Notes, Gammons was a class act. Really informative and a journalist when that term has pretty much gone to waste. In recent years, he's become more of a celeb like most of ESPN, but...I think the guy has earned it after getting over what he did, his Hall of Fame credentials and so forth. We'll never see him now, but I'm sure when you've worked as hard as he has for a while, you deserve to go out on your terms...

He did good work for a good long while. But they weren't using him anything like they used to, because the medium has changed a lot even in the past decade.

As for the Halladay trade, I don't even want to think about it. I might just adopt his new team, especially if they're in the NL.

Weird trade, but Lowell is pretty useless at this point. Everybody else obviously thinks so too.

Ramirez seems like he's a decent backup catcher prospect, and even he did more offensively than Varitek last year. I wonder if Varitek even makes the team at this point.

fair enough. digging deeper it seems he was injured last year and had hit .299 through 1800 A and AA AB's. So maybe he was just rushed. Maybe he'll be useful...I dunno.

Just so everyone knows, Mike Jacobs was just released by the Royals. If you need a Rob Deer impersonator, he's your man.

Word is that the Phillies and the Angels are considered the frontrunners for Halladay. Phillies have offered Happ and one of two stud outfield prospects (Brown or Taylor). The Phils would probably have to get rid of Blanton in order to be able to fit Halladay (and his new contract) into the payroll.

Halladay in the NL would be absolutely filthy. He might be able to rival Pedro's great-run here in Boston.

In fact, from a career longevity standpoint it's probably the best idea for him.

I just drool thinking of a rotation of Halladay, Lee, and Hamels.

Yeah thanks for the stats. I stand corrected on their ages. Coco plays like a 33 year old at times. Heredia is a high risk high reward guy and Crisp is well a guy that wasn't good enough to keep a few years ago what has changed. On the bright side when you finish up school you will have a great future as a VP with the Sox rationalizing all the weird transactions Epstein makes for the fan bases consumption.

fuck me that would be sweet

Too true. He would Steve Carlton like out there. As long the f#$%ing Yankees don't get him.

Braves deal Rafael Soriano to Tampa for reliever Jesse Chavez. Atlanta had to find a trade for him after he unexpectedly accepted arbitration earlier in the week but had no role (and certainly not a $7m role) with the additions of Wagner & Saito.

Soriano traded to Rays for reliever Chavez *| ajc.com

Isn't this Soriano's 4th team or something? I recall when he was quite a hot prospect...

Heh...obviouisly, the Yankees are the Yankees, so your above statement is very true. That said, you wouldn't mind if he went to the Angels? ;)

FWIW, the deal being tossed around for him from the Angels (Joe Saunders, Erick Aybar, Peter Bourjos), while containing some pieces I would rather not see go, I would do that, especially if the Angels got clearance to work otu an extension with him first (not sure if that's in the cards).

They would have to figure out what to do at SS, though (or at 3B, if they start Wood at SS), and they would still need to get a fifth starter (or resign themselves to throwing a kid out there every fifth day).

So, pretty much last year's plan? ;)

SI

Well put. I fall into the category of thinking Harden is a worthwhile candidate for a staff, I think it's just that with pitching at such a premium in MLB, it's hard to ignore the potential he brings to the table, especially at the relatively low price he is signing for.

No you guys can have em:)

Of course I've been looking at Harden through Brewers lenses. The Brewers had one of the worst starting staffs in the league last year, if not the worst. I thought signing a guy like Randy Wolf was much preferred to signing a guy like Harden. Wolf won't put up dazzling numbers like Harden has the potential to do, but at the same time Wolf is no slouch.

I've considered myself a stats guy for a long time but people keep throwing me these projections that Wolf and Harden will end up with the same WAR even though Harden projects to throw a lot less innings than Wolf because Harden's work will be higher quality. But I keep throwing out the fact that Harden on average is a 5-6 inning pitcher and and will tax the bullpen tremendously. Does WAR take that into account?

I love stats and put a great amount of stock into them but sometimes people just take them too literally and look at things in too much of a vacuum as if each individual player is on his own and not part of a collective entity that is a baseball team.

Nobody on here is doing that, but I'm talking about a Brewer site I visit and post where if I posted what I just posted I'd get jumped on as being anti-intellectual when in fact I'm quite the stats nerd myself.

Trautwein's?

hmm? just an amusing post i saw over on SOSH. thought it was pretty funny.:lol:

Yup. :)

That decision in a roundabout way just ended up with the Angels giving in and acquiring Kazmir. Just a continuing shame about Adenhart. I am certain, with how much talent he had and how he started off the season, Adenhart would have settled that matter just fine.

The Angels best young pitchers are a year closer now, and the ones they used last year are at least broken in and maybe more ready for a role on the big league club.

Woot! Get it done, Reagins! :)

.

Put our name on the trophy if we get Halladay....(assuming we stay healthy)

...Roy Halladay
Raul Ibanez
RedKingGold
Jimmy Rollins...

Got it.

It depends on just how highly he is being rated. I think his ceiling is a #2/3. His dominant numbers have come in large part because of great command, which is obviously fantastic, but has less projectability and regresses some at the higher levels like Bowden has. So he is a great prospect, and probably deserves to be around #50 in the minors, but if he's being put up in the top 20 and talked about as a future ace his value is likely to never be higher (see Lars Anderson last offseason). He's also a pitching prospect in single A - TNSTAAP and all. There's a reason why Westmoreland is the one untouchable in the system and Buchholz is the pitcher Toronto asked for first. I'm not even sure Kelly deserves to be higher than Reddick, Lars, Bowden or Kalish, but people tend to get enamored of the newest shiny thing (helloooooo Jose Iglesias!).Beltre would be fantastic between his defense, home/road splits, and Type B status.I don't get the reluctance of Toronto to offer a 72-hour window to negotiate an extension. Unless they think Halladay will be outrageous in his demands and scare off suitors.Shurg. Talk about Heredia as a mid-30's washed up player, keep insisting Coco - who has made a living the past few years sacrificing his body and playing great defense - plays like a 33y/o. I can see why fans are pissed if we're not going after one of the two proven stud LF'ers on the market and going with a platoon - like you said we got rid of Coco because he wasn't good enough for that role 2 years ago (and we got a decent reliever) - but at least don't get your facts completely wrong.I think the value of Harden depends on the team and you're correct from a Brewers perspective. The Red Sox (or other big market clubs) are used to having 6-7 starters ready to go and expecting guys to go on the DL during the year, so it's worth the risk/reward. Meanwhile the Brewers can't afford to be wrong and should take the guy who projects to pitch 200+ innings and hope he turns in a Javier Vasquez season.