if he has to come out of the game due to injury, the CELTICS decide who shoots the free throws.

NBA.com - RULE NO. 9-FREE THROW

Section II-Shooting of Free Throw
a. The free throw(s) awarded because of a personal foul shall be attempted by the offended player.
EXCEPTIONS:
(1) If the offended player is injured or is ejected from the game and cannot attempt the awarded free throw(s), the opposing coach shall select, from his opponent's bench, the player who will replace the injured player. That player will attempt the free throw(s) and the injured player will not be permitted to re-enter the game. The substitute must remain in the game until the next dead ball.

Man, kindofa crummy rule. I understand that by placing it in the opposing coach's hands, you take away the possibility a coach will have his player fake an injury to get a better free throw shooter, but this way of doing it only seems to encourage the concept of going out and head hunting on the floor. So long as you're going for the ball (per say), why not just try to hurt the guy every time?

(2) If the offended player is injured and unable to attempt the awarded free throw(s) due to any unsportsmanlike act, his coach may designate any eligible member of the squad to attempt the free throw(s). The injured player will be permitted to re-enter the game.

This is why

I don't have a problem with the no-call on the flagrant. I think if it was in Chicago or much earlier in the game it could have been a flagrant. There is no way they call one though at the end of the game.

One thing that I haven't seen on the networks is giving more credit to Rondo. Outside of Lebron, he's been the best player in the playoffs. He's played better than Paul and Williams in the playoffs. You could make the argument that he's the best PG in basketball right now. I haven't watched a lot of Boston's games this year, but as a Chicago fan, this guy blows me away.

I think the more pressing issue is did Neuqua get a hand job?

x2

x3

+1

He's been crazy. And he's playing hurt to the point where he's dunking both of his feet/ankles in ice baths after the game. If he keeps working on his midrange game it's all over.

If he can get to Tony Parker´s level that would be great allready. That´s also the best i can envision him becoming and he´d have to think about changing his form as well, just like Parker did.
Right now his shot is pretty much "broken". Not terrible form, but inconsistent because he has way too much movement in his shooting motion combined with his big hands. Parker basically "shortened" the way he shot with an earlier release point, thus less possibility of leaving course during the shooting motion.
A technique that won´t ever make him (Parker) a great shooter but which is more consistent and relieable.

But the way he´s playing is really impressive, no doubt about it. And Rose isn´t exactly a pushover either despite being a rookie, so that adds to his performance.

A skinny PG that isn´t even big for his position without a jump shot putting up that kind of numbers is just sick, he´s really incredibly good at finding holes in the defense (sth that translates to his rebounding, too.).

And he´s also a good passer technically that isn´t dependent on drawing the help to make a good play (unlike f.e. Brooks).

The Rockets just stunk it up yesterday in the 4th. Too many unnescessary fouls where the Blazers weren´t even in scoring position, shitty rotations in help situations and on broken plays. Plus Aldridge absolutely abused Scola/Landry/Hayes, inspired performance. And then on offense they went cold without Scola and with Yao being defended extremely well. Brooks was just terrible (and the same problems in terms of passing, again), Battier way too passive, Landry sleepwalked and Artest was Artest ...

For Portland Blake was the X-Factor + MacMillan finally went completely without Batum in the 2nd half who just has no place this series on either end of the floor (no need for a defensive "stopper", he doesn´t help well and on offense he does absolutely nothing since the Blazers can´t get anything in transition), can´t play someone like that especially with Przybilla being a non-factor on offense as well.

I´m still confident the Rockets will pull it out tomorrow, but it´s far from over ...

First off, I am obviously biased in thinking it was a flagarant, getting that out of the way...

FOFC is just about the only place I have found where people don't think that was a flagarant foul on Rondo. ESPN's been talking about it all morning and I have not found one sports website who also is not calling that flagarant.

If that play were in Chicago or even earlier in the game, there is no doubt a flagarant would have been called so why do the circumstances change? If the roles were reversed and it was Brad Miller who swatted Rondo's head, is there any doubt what the outcome would have been?

Its arguable that he was going for the ball but when you hit a guy across the face like that, hard enough for his tooth to literally come out, that is more than a personal foul.

PS - And no I didn't get a handjob either, which may add to my grumpiness, but regardless I'm giving her a chance to redeem herself tomorrow at the United Center. Go Bulls.

dola -

Since when did the Celtics become so obnoxious? They've been acting like complete punks the entire series, I think they forget that its them that are the #2 seed that are being pushed to their limits by this up and coming #7 seed.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/sports/bas...n-Garnett.html

Did she at least let you feel her up?

That was clearly a flagrant.

You shouldn't be able to slap someone in the side of the head and consider it to be called a "hard foul".

Yeah, I've seen lighter hits be called flagrant. That was a bit excessive. The fact that it was in the last minute of the game in the playoffs shouldn't matter.

Awww, did de poor widdle big dude get beat up by de skinny point guard? Awww....

(but yeah, he's nowhere near the ball, that's pretty bad. But since I gave up long ago trying to figure out what's a foul in the NBA, let alone the different types of fouls, I have no comment on whether it's flagrant or not).

Did he catch Pierce's elbow on the way down? That looks more likely to put out a tooth than Rondo's slap on the head.

QFT

SI

Actually. look at the picture.. I thought hitting the net was goaltending.. or is it only when the ball's on the cylinder.

A) He didn't lose a tooth

B) You must not have looked very hard. Front page of espn.com

Legler on Rajon Rondo Foul - ESPN Video - ESPN

I don't watch a lot of NBA basketball, but I'm still amazed that we're talking about this foul instead of how a team as terribly coached as Chicago is a playoff team. Seriously, my impressions from the game yesterday:

1. Rose is far and away the best player Chicago has.

2. In every clutch situation, giving the ball to a guy who is 5-18, who is going to shoot no matter how bad the shot he has available to him, is lunacy. Seriously, that bailout foul on the 3 pointer by Gordon late in the game... he should be pulled from the game for being moronic enough to even consider putting up that shot. The final play before OT... they clearout for Gordon, he waits until there's 5 seconds on the clock to even get within 30 feet of the basket, and takes a ridiculous fadeaway over a defender from 22 feet out. There's no thought of going 2 seconds earlier for the chance at a tipin? No consideration to passing the ball to an open man?

3. Taking 1 and 2 into consideration, why the hell are you going to your ice cold terrible decision maker of a SG. Give the ball to Rose. He drives, dishes if his drive causes enough chaos that someone gets open, takes a shot if its there, draws contact if he can. You crowd the middle allowing the chance for a tip-in off a miss.

4. When Paul Pierce hits open 15-18 footers every single trip down the court without breaking a sweat, with no effort or intent of doing anything different until stopped, how many times does Chicago allow this to happen before putting someone else in the game? Or putting a different defender on Pierce? Or making any kind of move *at all* to prevent this from happening?


Admittedly I don't watch enough of the NBA to know all the players anymore, but Rose/Rondo and the closeness of this series got me interested in watching a bit, and Chicago was just a complete embarrassment down the stretch and in the entirety of overtime.

am I missing something?

i didn't read your link, but if it's talking about Garnett - hasn't the knock on him always been that he's super-intense and he comes off as sort of a bully/psycho because of his intensity?

It probably should've been a flagrant, and I agree that the time of the game shouldn't matter one bit. If that was the case, then why wouldn't the team ahead just be utterly brutal in the closing seconds? If someone commits a technical with 0.1 left in a 3OT game that is the 7th game of the NBA finals, then it should still be called.

However, why is this getting so much play? It was a bad call, but they happen. Just like Gordon being out of bounds before he was fouled on the 3 pt attempt.

So it was 6 for 21. But there's no doubt he cost them that game.

Also see Ray Allen in the second half.

No, and I put this heavily on the fact that Del Negro has no business being a head coach in the NBA. He hasn't shown he can make adjustments and adapt to how games are shaping up. I've watched a pretty fair amount of Bulls games this season, and the VAST majority of the time, anything he draws up out of a timeout turns into a disaster.

The talent of the team has made the Bulls interesting to watch. The tactics/team discipline has been abysmal all season, and that's heavily on the coach.

Easier said than done. Pierce is a complete player that can hit from anywhere on the court. If you challenge his outside shots, he'll get by you and to the line. If you sit back, he'll pull up and hit a jumper. The defense wasn't so bad on those shots down the stretch. A couple of them were somewhat off balance.

Plus the problem is that the Bulls are a .500 team, and there's probably a reason for it. Think about it in text sim terms. You've got a guy with a 5 rating in defense and put him on their star who has 10's across the board. He might get burned, but you don't take him out and put your guy with a rating of 3 on him.

Not having watched the game, I didn't know what else had gone on until I read Simmons today:


Sounds like from you guys these are valid questions.

Meh Allen kept getting called for ticky tacky fouls over and over again until they'd run him from the game. On one hand it's his own fault, but on the other it seemed ridiculous to me.

Yeah I can understand that for sure. But Salmons is an inch shorter than Pierce and seemed a foot shorter by the time Pierce makes a jab step and Salmons falls over himself to jump back and protect against the drive. I know I'm exaggerating a bit but Garnett is hurt, Allen has fouled out... Pierce is the only one of the big 3 left in the game. Don't you at least try something different after he hits 2 or 3 of those jump shots in a row? Tell Salmons to play tight and set up a switch/rotation behind him if he gets by. Double team him at the top of the key... sure you may still lose anyway, but make him give up the ball to someone else, or work a good bit harder for his shot if he's going to take it.

The Bulls offensive tactics were a much bigger problem to me than the defense, but that still bugged the heck out of me watching it.

I think he's a much different player than Parker. First, Rondo is a great rebounder, probably the best rebounding PG in the NBA right now. He's also a better defender. Parker is a better passer which may be the most important quality.

Rondo needs to become a better mid-range shooter as well as hit his free throws. If he does that, he'll be the best PG in the NBA.

I was actually surprised that they didn't have Hinrich on him. He has much quicker hands and is real fiesty. He had been giving Pierce fits when guarding him throughout the series.

fully agree, i merely brought Parker up as a recent example of a good PG that lacked a jump shot and changed his shooting form to get to a respectable level (at times even better than respectabel, if he gets to his sweet spots).
Best PG in the NBA ? I don´t know about that one and that´s not a knock on him with guys like Paul and Williams who are really, really good. Just that they lost in the first round doesn´t change how good they are.

@ Radii : The thing is that it worked pretty good so far, Salmons did a great job on defense. But i agree that they should have come up with some defensive scheme, some 1-3-1 traping zone or pick another poison and double agressively.

The Celtics made that sort of adjustment with Rose late in Game 1 and have forced him out of his comfort zone the next games.

They could learn from the classy Ben Gordon and his crotch grabbing after big shots.

I noticed that last night - wtf is up with that?

Dwight Howard has been suspended for game six. Without him and Lee this is probably going to seven games.

What did Howard do?

That's the saddest part of it as a Bulls fan. The team should be a lot better. They were well under .500 to start the year until Vinny learned that playing a half court style with quick guys who can run doesn't work.

He is by far the worst coach in the league and really doesn't know what he's doing. He ran out of timeouts in the first two games in the series when the team could have used them.

I'm a big Paul fan but not as much on Williams. I think he disappears from games too much.

I know it's probably bias, but I think Rose will be better than all of them. He's 20 years old and playing on a team that has two guys who just don't pass (Salmons and Gordon).

It is funny seeing Garnett calling someone a choker when most of his career has been spent choking in the first round of the playoffs.

blatant elbow to the head

I'm a bit surprised he was suspended. He did throw an elbow but you'll probably see it a dozen or so times in the playoffs. But I know the league wants a Game 7 bad.

NBA OK with Rondo foul - Celtics Blog - Boston.com

NBA has agreed that Rondo's foul was not a flagrant

I thought it was harsh as well and was hoping the league would give Howard the benefit of the doubt.

Not when there is big money to be made in a 7 game series.

It's a conspiracy!

This again? As long as you're not whining when people say the refs "handed game 6" to the Bulls. Because you know it's coming.

I know the Bulls will get the benefit of the doubt in Game 6.

I just don't think it's fair that the higher seeds get a home court advantage.

As opposed to the the league giving star treatment by not suspending him, right?

Do you think the NBA would have suspended him for a Game 7 if this happened in Game 6?

Maybe, maybe not. It would not have been the first time the league suspended an star player for a deciding game. The NBA suspended Alonzo Mourning for the deciding game five of a first round series against the Knicks in 1998 for actions that happened in game four.

However, that is not what happened. The league DID suspend Howard for his actions which was the proper call. If they had not suspended him, they would have been criticized for giving the star preferential treatment.

And game five. 22 points combined for Beasley, Cook and Chalmers so far.

Still can't believe there were some people who wanted the Bulls to pick Beasley over Rose. Not many, but there were a few.

Well, at the time, I think most people expected Beasley to be putting up Rookie of the Year numbers in his first season, where as Rose was expected to take a season or two.

It was a question of taking a future star at a key position over taking a big talent at a spot that isn't, generally, as important (SF/PF).

Of course, Beasley has been worse than expected (though I maintain he'd be putting up better numbers on a worse team), and Rose has been FAR better off the bat than I ever expected, at least.

Great third quarter by the Nuggets, they're all but in the second round.

There is not a chance in hell they suspend one of their premier players for a crucial Game 7. Especially for an elbow that is a judgement call. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy in the NBA when it comes to their rules.

The Mourning example is a tad different. It wasn't an elbow, it was him and Larry Johnson throwing haymakers at one another.

Are you saying that they should not have suspended him to prove that they don't want a game seven?

Must win for the Rockets tonight.

3 quotes that sum up my thoughts, fears and hopes :

Quote:

Q: When the Rockets need a basket, why don't they pound the ball down low to Yao Ming, a great free-throw shooter who has a mismatch with whomever might be guarding him, instead of having Yao set picks 27 feet from the basket to set up unspeakably bad jumpers by Ron Artest? A: I ... I don't know.

from a nice column by Simmons overall Bill Simmons: The Sports Guy answers key questions about the 2009 NBA playoffs - ESPN

Quote:

Give him the ball. Don't weigh the options. Don't worry about the double- or triple-team, don't get too clever for your own good. Give it to the 7-foot-6 guy with enough brawn to cast a shadow over Shaq.

Quote:

Tuesday's Game 5 loss to the Blazers was almost laughable. Twenty-six shots were taken by the Rockets before Yao got his first shot in the 88-77 loss, a missed turnaround hook with 6:19 to play in the second quarter. His first basket did not come until 2:37 remained in the first half. Just to reiterate: Twenty-six times the Rockets determined it was better to have someone else take a shot before Yao got a turn. Yes, Przybilla was relentlessly fronting. But, uh, by late April, shouldn't you have figured out how to throw it over the top? When Yao finally got the ball, when Brooks decided perhaps another 3-pointer wasn't in the team's best interest, he made seven of his next 10 shots, closing a respectable 7 of 12.

from NBC : Expert: Simple game plan — give Yao the dang ball - NBA- nbcsports.msnbc.com


and the big guy himself had this to say :

Quote:

The Blazers have mostly defended Yao by putting either Joel Przybilla or Greg Oden in front of him and then double-teaming whenever he touches the ball. Yao found a way to score 24 points in Game 1 and 21 in Game 4, leaving the game plan for Game 6 fairly obvious -- at least to him. "Get the ball inside. Get the ball inside. Get the ball inside," he said. "That's it." Yao had grown tired of being reduced to a witness. “I don’t know,” he said sarcastically when asked what went wrong in the 88-77 loss in Game 5. “I just went up and down on the court. I don’t know anything. I just ran baseline to baseline for seven or eight times. That’s it. “I mean, I ran up and down. We didn’t organize well. We did not execute. We did not know what is the play. We don’t know what is called.”

And by "we" he means "they" . That´s the closest to calling out his teammates i´ve seen him. I honestly want them to just try it. Don´t care about 5 or 6 TOs by him, just throw him the ball whenever even remotely possible and then work from there and not start the game assuming you can´t get it to him like in Game 5...

Can´t wait ...

If the Rockets don't want to utilize Yao I'm sure there's no shortage of suitors who'd break up their teams for him.

No, I'm saying that elbows like that take place a lot in the NBA and don't end up in suspsensions. There seems to be zero consistency in this area.

Well, tonight will be about the Bulls mental toughness. If they come out flat, and figure they already have an excuse for why they won't win the series, it could be a game 3-like rout. If they use it as motivation, then they could rout the celtics, or we could have another classic.

That's odd- you don't usually hear Yao lashing out like that. Not exactly a guy known for being a prima donna.

SI

I'd argue that that's hardly being a prima donna - it's more like "hey c'mon guys...basic basketball strategy - nobody on their team can guard me - how about you pass to me?"

I'll be there tonight and I don't see a rout. The crowd will be raucuous and should give them a nice boost early on. I still don't think they'll win tonight and foresee a tight game that the Celtics pull away with at the end.

I like the Bulls future but it's just tough to put a 20 year old into these spots and expect him to take out a team of established veterans.

Pretty much agree.

I think the next year or two is just to let Rose develop and go cheap on spending money on VDN but when 2010 rolls around, our players should be ready to make a big step forward and hopefully Reinsdorf will spend the money on a real coach.

I'll be at the game too, just hoping for a game half as exciting as last Sunday's was.

you better get some action from that chick this time neq!!!

Rondo just might have decided the series in Chicago´s favour ... What was he thinking, seriously ? He just lost it ...
If you didn´t see it : He got tangled up with Hinrich at the sidelines (Rondo initiated it, too) and he just griped his arm and swung Hinrich into the scorers table, not even a flop or exageration on Hinrich´s part.

Flagrant 2 (= ejection) and i´d say a suspension for a now likely game 7 pretty likely ...
Stupid, stupid move that puts a huge shadow over his performance ...

EDIT : Wait a minute : I was tuned into Orl/Phi at the time and they switched to the incident and yahoosaid "flagrant 2". Apparently he wasn´t ejected ? I don´t get those rules apparently ...

they reviewed it and said it wasn't a flagrant 2, it went as a flagrant 1

C's in trouble - down 37-26 after 1

Rondo was not ejected, he got a slap on the wrist. It's the playoffs though so I doubt any Boston player will be suspended.

@ daddytorgo : thanks for clarification !
that´s bound to get heavily flamed in the media and i´d say they have a point. Maybe you can argue it wasn´t a flagrant 2, but taking it back after what last game´s incident doesn´t look good really.
Yeah, i´m all for physichal play and stuff, but that´s just not a basketball play (todays incident) and for me those type of things are a sure fire ejection.

As much as i like Rondo as a player ...

What´s the vegas line for Aaron Gray getting into the game for the sole purpose of taking a shot at Rondo ? ;)

EDIT : And Gortat/Redick/Alston are beasting it for Orlando , wow what a start.

Yup. Rondo was stupid today.

Gortat is, IIRC, a free agent and is going to get paid this offseason IMO.

I'm bored. The Cavs don't play again till next week right?

C's have tied it up. Ray Allen's got it tonight.

@ Groundhog : Yeah, i agree on that. Still a miracle for anyone who saw him play around the time he got drafted, made great strides. I don´t think it will be outrageous, what with the economic struggles and teams in save mode. Maybe 10 for 3 ?

Ray Allen is having a hoge half, 24 points on 9-13 shooting with 4 3s. Boston ties it after being down 14.

I was shocked when i realized that Hunter still plays when i stumbled upon his name in a boxscore earlier this year. He´s like the Mutombo of guards.

Allen ! 29 in the half !

Noah gives Pierce a receipt, but the Celtics take the lead with Pierce in the locker room due to bleeding.

This is the first game of the Bulls/Celtics series I've been able to sit down and watch. Ray Allen has been amazing this series.

No comments yet on the Rondo flagrant in the first half?

Edit - oops, thought I was on last page of thread.

Noah has got to be the worst finisher among big men in the league ... Can´t believe my eyes looking at his great shooting percentage, he´s just erratic there. Both teams play atrocious defense all series long, especially in transition.

lol at Rondo screaming at Perkins like crazy there before finally getting the pass for that easy layup :D

Hinrich plays good d on allen though, gotta give him that.

I love how Rivers keeps giving actual coaching to Rondo at every possibility in a game as huge as this, that´s an underrated quality in a NBA head coach.

Who needs Howard when Gortat is slamming it down like that.

House is ice cold this series, that´s an underrated aspect here. I mean, the game is at the high pace he likes so much and he misses and misses on shots he likes to take.

Orlando up 15 midway through the 3rd. But that wouldn´t be the first time Philly comes back and Orlando eventually might cool off.
JJ Redick with 4 3s so far, too. I´d be happy for him if they win and he gets another one or two of those.

That should just about do it, they do not have anyone hot this time

Redick with his fifth 3 and the boo-birds are out in Philly. Alston, Redick, Lewis, and Gortat all with good games.

This is a hideously blatant attempt at a reverse jinx ;)

No, it was honest.. but.. HOLY shit. The Bulls just cannot finish the Celtics off can they?

Boston with a clinic this quarter, that is pretty damn impressive thus far. And Gordon is a cancer, imo. His reaction there was just terrible. Not even him getting the technical (which is bad though) but how he´s sitting there on the bench not giving a damn and then basically blowing Hunter off when he talked to him...
Miller took a shot at Rondo there, no way that was just going for the block with that big swing. Then again it´s Miller who´s like clumsyX2, so who knows ;)

NO OT please, wanna see Hou-Por ... ;)

And now the Celtics cannot finish the Bulls off.

Bradley Miller!

Why was Tony Allen in the game again when the Celtics had held the Bulls to like 10 points in the first 10 1/2 minutes in the 4th ?
And Miller is ... clutch ? :eek:

This is the best opening round series of all time.

Well, I guess Vinny has a timeout for the end of the game. Of course, you could certainly make the case that he could have used one while giving up a 17-0 fourth quarter run ...

'ere goes. I'm predicting it's the ole' "Ben Gordon for the contested jumper" to send the game to OT...

Ding ding ding ding ding.

I'm starting to get the impression Vinny isn't very good.

That was probably not the Bulls best option.

damn, i hate this ...

In Houston, MacMillan finally sits the totally overwhelmed Batum. Yao with a score and an assist on the first 2 possessions according to yahoo.

You win.

tony allen SUCKS - 3 straight trips down the floor (last 2 regulation, 1st overtime) he is in the paint with the ball - first 2 times he shoots lame floaters instead of drawing contact, 3rd time he dishes OUTSIDE the paint to perkins with like 4 on the shot clock

stop with the timeouts for christs sake ... NBA games go on way too long for nowadays, like snails pace with all those timeouts ...

If I were Vinny, I'd be drawing up a new play for everyone right now called the "give it to anyone except Ben Gordon and let them try and score" play.