I know, it's the same thing we went through in the Dates Draft - debating whether the date or the event would be more important. My strategy was to do both as best as possible, knowing who the voters were. So far in this draft, there are only 4 picks that would receive top scores from me.

BTW, did that draft ever finish? I forget how that one ended or if there was even a vote for it.

EDIT: Removed since it went too much into strategy, didn't want to be "that guy." :D

1. Fiction - 1.8 The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, Mark Twain
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem - 2.3 Paradise Lost, John Milton
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

Great, great pick... Was hoping to get that here soon...

Pandemonium breaks out in the ess tee cronins' draft room.

Well, the contest master dropped the ball a few times unfortunately. Once we got around to voting, I believe the votes showed a three-way tie but with only a handful of votes.

Fiction
Single Short Story
Poem - 1.7 The Iliad - Homer
Fantasy/Science Fiction
Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially) - 2.4 The Cronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis
Sport Related
Children's
Non-Fiction
Biography/Autobiography
History

Loved your use of Tolkien in that one.

It would've been my top fiction pick.

Good pick, probably could've waited but why take a chance?

My overall top 5 are all unavailable now. Paradise Lost was my #2.

Thank you. Persuant to my strategy, I also liked my Christmas, Thanksgiving and New Year's Day picks. :)

By the way, nice pick on C.S. Lewis. Been waiting for a good pick since Harry Potter. :)

My original draft strategy was to let the Poem category fall, but figured my #2 and 3 picks for the category were going to be snapped up early. Paradise Lost was my #2 pick for Poem.

For real? That's why I didn't sign up. I would have googled the most famous poems of all time and just put in what showed up.

HP was going to be my pick here if he fell. I figured there were only 4 series that were worth picks this high. The other 3 were picked, so I figured I better get it while the getting was good.

And you've read Danse Macabre?

My point is that we expected different things from the draft. I think the rule done your way doesn't add much and the losses are similar. We have to water down the works we check so one guy isn't over represented but we dont want to water the works down so you can collect the best author. Why limit the best at all? I don't see how it's an admirable goal to diversify for the sake of diversity.

Either way, the rule waters down the draft so why is your way the obvious way that we should look at it? If it isn't the obvious way then my pick didn't suck per se but it was based on an equally ( I actually think better and more strategic ) compelling logic.

Paradise Lost was my #1 poem, #2 overall.

Alas, this is my first draft too so I wouldn't know that. No worries though.

I brought it up in a PM to lordscarlet but I was thinking of using it as a series when he was still planning to use year of publishing as a criteria which would have really hurt any modern series.

It's a great choice of course in it's own right but really, I think of it more as a series.

It's the second round and I'm already completely off the board in terms of my list (such as it is) compared to what's being picked.

For whatever reason, Harry Potter didn't occur to me. It's an obvious pick, weird that I never though of it.

Fantastic pick on Paradise Lost. Good one on Narnia, too, as it's one of the ones that was on my series board.

I'll be interested in hearing your overall top 5 when the draft's done and we can discuss such things. :)

Thanks :)

Just got caught up.

I am shocked Harry Potter lasted so longg.

I absolutly despise the Danse Macabre pick. What a huge waste

No, that's my point. I've never heard of it.


It's not diversity for the sake of diversity, it's diversity for the sake of fun, which is what I've always thought the point of these drafts were. Why bother if half the people will just pick King novels?


I didn't say it was the obvious way to look at it and that everyone should look at it that way. I said as a voter, that's how I saw the rule, and that the work itself will mean more to me when I vote than just the list of authors a drafter assembled. If other voters value different things, than good. That's part of the fun.

Again, if the rules were setup to include strategy it's a great pick. Since it's only an affirmative action rule it looks like a bad pick. What everyone is missing is that it isn't a horrible read; it's just not his best work and that's not how the game appeared to be set up.

Oh, I'm not singling you out; your's appears to be the prevailing opinion. I just don't think it takes away any fun if the actual best works were chosen. I don't know why it's any better to have to choose an inferior work simply because it's a different guy. I don't get that but others do. Again, I can adapt and it's no biggie but it's kinda odd to my way of thinking so I was honestly doomed for my first pick no matter what. I don't think like the crowd on this one.

Part of these drafts are knowing your voters.

You would have gotten much more from a number of his other works while still taking him off the board.

I just think most of the people who vote will look at that pick and actualy deduct points from you

Like I said, I've never read the draft threads so I was doomed to that pick. Now, since it's actually going to cost me negative points I'll say my enthusiasm for the competitive aspect is gone so I'll just play for my own choices. May make it more fun actually.

Anyone want to trade for a Harry Potter pick? Make me an offer. All offers considered:D

Go for it. Your first round pick may have fallen flat, but who knows. Maybe you'll win some major creativity points with some of your others.

axxon - just play the draft out the way you want. Part of the fun is getting to summarize your reasons for your picks at the end, and you may win some people over then.

I know I had success with that in my last draft, which was the sports figures one where I had to defend a couple picks I thought and actually ended up winning the draft

Yeah, to me, this draft isn't about trying to find the "surefire winners", unless that's what you want to do.

For me, this is about using my lit knowledge in a fun way, to draft a team that I'd personally enjoy having and reading myself.

Dude, it's like starting in the premier league with a -15 point penalty. :D

Major creativity also is iffy since we're looking for popular choices. I have creative choices and that's what I'm gonna do now but realistically, no one will have heard of most of them so again, winnings gonna be tough.

That's why I'm looking to trade out of the popular choice so I can have fun picking the lineup I want and get more options. Let others quibble over what's popular and go with what I enjoy and see where that takes me. Like you said, that may be the key to victory after all.

I'm assuming I can trade players for picks here. If I get enough picks I can possibly strengthen my hand enough to get it noticed. I don't think Harry Potter alone can bring me back from the quite damning comments I've seen over my Stephen King pick so volume would be the logical next step.

Let me be clear. I'm not in a quitting mood or bummed. I love literature and discussing it so this is going to be fun. I just think it might be more fun to get funky since I pooched it and would probably have more fun just considering it a learning experience so lets haggle!!!

It also sucks because I honestly really think that Danse Macabre IS a great book.

Actually, that's what my long winded post was trying to say and actually, HP is great and all but it WOULDN'T be on this list if I was playing just for my own enjoyment. I have a much more favorite series that's also fantasy/sci fi so I would have gone with it and had more fun defending it.

We're on pick #2.5, correct?

Yes

BTW, I'm about to head out to an evening of revelry so if it gets back to my choice it'll be tomorrow am that I can get to it.

Peace out everybody.

I agonized over Waste Land vs The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock. Prufrock is my favorite poem of all time and I loved the paper I wrote on it in which, as part of my discussion of the poem, I suggested that the woman of Prufrock's obsession is a lesbian.

But ultimately, Waste Land's legacy and impact was simply too great to outweigh Prufrock, especialy since I do love both poems.

Point of clarification requested on history:

Is it a non-fiction book of history, historical fiction or both?

Agreed on the C.S. Lewis pick. very nice. Still have never liked you pick of Christmas as the birth of Christ.understood it, but did not think it was good or right, since the accuracy was an issue. (Plus iwanted to use it for the coronation of Charlemagne :) )

Hey guys.. sorry I was gone longer than I expected today. I was able to monitor the thread through most of the day, though, and you guys had everything on track so I left it along (was reading on my iPhone). The category situation was brought up (with LOTR). My basic rule on category is that you can choose whatever category you want and the voting public can decide if it was a poor decision.


Um. They are setup to include strategy. It seems that you're just upset because you had poor strategy. I'm not sure what other rules you would like, outside of the year one. The series is one reason it just wouldn't work -- You don't get to take decades out of the running because a series runs that long. At best you could knock off each year a book from the series was published.

The author rule is by no means meant to "water down" the draft, but to require strategy. Sometimes people will grab authors to block future picks, sometimes you have to agonize over the "best work" by that author. It is all about strategy when it comes to these restrictions in the drafts.

Non-fiction. Sorry for the lack of clarity there.

Oh, that's why?

Axxon - you're taking a poor strategy way too seriously. As LS said, it's not that there's no strategy it's that the one you picked didn't resonate with everyone. There's no "given" about whether to pick best work or best author, it's all up to the minds of the voters. I think if you would have picked King and a 2nd-tier work in popularity (like say his "On Writing") I don't think people would have reacted so badly, but very early in the draft you pick King who has some sure fire top-tier writings and take an obscure old writing of his.

It was just a poor choice, bar-none. Others will make poor choices too, so don't give up. Usually there is at least one head-scratcher in everyone's draft. When it all comes out voters may see Stephen King, not really look at the draft order, and not know that you picked him when all of the other categories were still open. MANY voters do not read the actual draft thread, so some of these mistakes can come out in the wash.

Don't give up now, there's still a loooong way to go.

OK. I finally updated the first post. I also have an inbox full of draft boards, let me see if NoMyths is in it (he also sent me a list originally)

A couple of other drafters are with you with that penalty. Your pick wasn't the only one I didn't like, and I can't say I was really impressed with any of the other picks. The real draft starts in round 3 when all of the obvious picks are gone. From my experience in these things, a great later round pick will overcome a bad early round pick.

OK. I have one pick left from NoMyths original list -- I will give him a couple hours to wake up and check in before I take it for him.

Also, a number of people are not putting the pick number on their list. Make sure to put the pick number before your pick in your listing.

I'm here. Gimme a minute or so. :)

Fiction
Single Short Story
Poem: 2.5 - The Divine Comedy, Dante Alighieri
Fantasy/Science Fiction
Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
Sport Related
Children's
Non-Fiction
Biography/Autobiography
History

One of the few poems with which nearly every FOFCer is familiar (if mostly in concept rather than specific attribution) -- the idea of varying circles of Hell is a common one now. Inferno is the most famous canctica from the epic poem, following Dante as he is led on a tour of Hell by the poet Virgil, a place they ultimately escape. Purgatory and Paradise then depict tours of those places as well, and Dante eventually comes face to face with God.

From Wiki:
The Divine Comedy (Italian: Commedia, later christened "Divina" by Giovanni Boccaccio), written by Dante Alighieri between 1308 and his death in 1321, is widely considered the central epic poem of Italian literature, and is seen as one of the greatest works of world literature. The poem's imaginative vision of the Christian afterlife is a culmination of the medieval world-view as it had developed in the Western Church. It helped establish the Tuscan dialect in which it is written as the Italian standard.

I like the pick NoMyths.

Nice one!

Thanks. Big fan of this draft, and I'm interested to see what everyone's final rosters look like. Was very pleased to be able to get The Divine Comedy in the second round, as I almost took it in the first.

'course, I almost took The Dark Tower series as a first-round risk (though not nearly as much of a risk on King as what came just afterwards). Glad to see The Waste Land getting early props.

let me see if I can get my pick in before my workout. If not it'll be after

My knowledge and depth of the History genre is probably comparable to your knowledge and expertise in Poetry. But my interest in poetry and to some extent, short stories and scifi, is about the same as QuikSand's interest in Maximum Football. Unlike the Music, Football HOF and Dates drafts, I am lacking breadth here. For some voters, it is a popularity contest, as well as those that would rather drop out of college than be forced to take Engliish Lit. :)

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially) 1.5 The Foundation Series, Isaac Asimov
6. Sport Related
7. Children's
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography 2.6 Autobiographical Notes, Albert Einstein
10. History

How can I resist taking this work by Einstein which focuses on the development of the ideas of one of, if not the single, most brilliant men who has ever lived. A window into a brilliant mind.

Interesting, DT. I never would've even thought of that. :)

DAMN! I was going to pick this up in the third round, I was debating whether fiction or non-fiction would be better for it. Great, great pick.

EDIT: Now I feel far more comfortable with my pick of The Iliad in the first round.

Yep, the Iliad is a goodie, Warhammer...definite first round choice.

For me it wasn't so much that as it was getting off my draft strategy. I really didn't think anyone was going to take Asimov ahead of me. That threw me off because the rest of my picks were not really first rounders. Its good to see that the poems I planned on getting next round came off the board, so I feel better about getting the Iliad in the first.

Getting ready to leave in about 15 mins. Will make my pick as soon as Warhammer makes his. If it's after that, then lordscarlet has my list.

We're waiting for Maple Leafs, neither of us pick again until the 3rd round.

Fiction - 1.4 Hamlet, by William Shakespeare
Single Short Story
Poem
Fantasy/Science Fiction
Series
Sport Related
Children's
Non-Fiction
Biography/Autobiography
History - 2.7 The Diary of a Young Girl, by Anne Frank

My bad. For some reason I mixed up the order and assumed I was picking 8th in this round, but that's not until next round.

"Tale of Two Cities" is historical FICTION, no? Thought LS made it clear it should be a non-fiction choice.

That is a surprising categorization.

History????

Correct, which is precisely why I asked the question, because I had something lined up for History in the 3rd round if Historical Fiction was permissible.

Since it's not, I have to do some re-thinking.

thanks. I figured there was a value-add in selecting an autobiography by such a great thinker versus a traditional biography (however well-written) of someone famous. Or an autobiography by someone semi-famous.

dola

and it was pretty much my top-pick. Figured i'd get the two areas where there may be less depth out of the way first. I'm confident I can add value in the other rounds and explain my choices to the voters.

I must have missed this. Where was it?

Edit: OK, I see it on page five of this thread. I checked the various rules threads but missed the clarification post. I had assumed the category would include historical novels, since to be honest I'm not sure how it ends up being distinct from the non-fiction category otherwise. In any case, I guess I'm stuck with it.

My reading of the rules is that you can still make another pick, but you can't pick something that someone else has picked after you. I certainly wouldn't object to you making another pick and I hope no one else would.

I agree. He can make another pick (don't think anyone else has gone since then), or if he wants, can re-categorize for sure.

Yeah, I'd say he can make another pick or re-categorize it. :)

Nice pick! I'm currently re-reading this for the first time since my undergrad days, although I'm about halfway through 'Purgatory' and starting to feel the Divine Exhaustion.

As a casual observer I think people are making way to many obscure picks that could be had in much later rounds.

MapleLeafs:

Scifi, poem, series, etc can all be fiction as well, but there is a fiction category. I just made 2 generic fiction/non-fiction categories in addition to history. Darwin, for instance, is non-fiction without being history. I apologize again if the rules were unclear on the history category, it was a bad assumption by me that it would be assumed to be non-fiction history (particularly as it is grouped with non-fiction and biography in the list).

You are more than to change or recategorized the selection because the category was not clear.

OK, pick edited. Took Anne Frank in the History category instead. Dickens is back in play.

Purgario (sp?) is actually a separate work as is the Paradisio.

Nice pick, though if it were me, I'd have slotted it in the Autobio/Bio section.

That was not allowed in previous contests, esp. when categorization was one of those things that had to be worked through as best as possible. :mad:

To me it is a bit different when someone thought the category was fiction and non-fiction but it was only for non-fiction. That was a poor statement of the rules, not a poor placement of categories based on his own reasonings.

i'm thinking this was a one-time only thing b/c maple leafs didn't see the earlier ruling. I mean really it's essentially just re-picking but picking a different category and the same work.

st.cronin sent me a list.. give me a few moments

st.cronin's 2.8 pick is: 1984, George Orwell, sci-fi/fantasy

cartman is on the clock!

I understand. My reaction is based on a fair amount of people that could not separate fiction from non-fiction in regards to history. How many people do you think believe that Dickens or Shakespeare or Homer was actually historical works?

amazing that Dickens and Orwell fell to round 2

My pick at 2.9 will go into the Fantasy/Sci-Fi category. This book is considered by many to be one of the most influential fantasy titles of all time. My pick is:

Alice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll

cartman's list:

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction - 2.9 Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, Lewis Carroll
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially) - 1.2: The Lord of The Rings Trilogy (Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King), J.R.R. Tolkein
6. Sport Related
7. Children's
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

Very nice pick again, cartman.

CR, I see you are reading the thread, and you are up.

*rubs my hands in glee* my next pick is going to be fun!

cartman, excellent pick. That wasn't even on my radar (but it should have been).

Chief Rum's list

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story-- 2.10 A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens
3. Poem
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History-- The Holy Bible by God (1.1)

This is getting to be a very difficult contest already. And it's not about finding the choices. There are tons of deserving choices. It is in picking the right ones. And I am certain that in picking one, I will lose the chance to pick many others as the draft goes on.

This one came down to Dickens' importance to the English literature. It's arguable what is his most well-known work, but this would be among them. And none can question that Dickens' novella redefined the Christmas myth.

An assist to MapleLeafs for switching to the The Diary of Anne Frank

Chief Rum's list

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story-- 2.10 A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens
3. Poem
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography-- 3.1 Walden by Henry David Thoreau
10. History-- 1.1 The Holy Bible by God

I selected this next one not only because of its influence on American thinking and writing, but because it was a key influence to the philosophies of Mahatma Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr., two of the greatest men who ever lived.

The placement of this book was much more difficult. I originally looked to nonfiction, but I decided that field was far too strong if I could place Walden eslewhere. I feel this is autobiographical (well, it is, even if it doesn't treat Thoreau's life as a whole to that point--and that can be argued as well), and is a good selection to slot into a more difficult to fill category.

Nice pick by cartman.

Interesting pick on A Christmas Carol. Not sure I'd count it as a short story.

Chief, you have absolutely nailed the Short Story. Well done.

In readin Sab's comment, it could work as Poem but I like it better here though since it has been read as a short story for generations.

Nice pick, CR. I think I'd prefer to see it in Non-Fiction as it's more of a philosophical treatise and reflection on nature than an autobiography, but still a thoughtful choice.

For my next pick, I'm going to take a work from one of the great American authors. Edgar Allan Poe released many great works, and it was difficult to chose only one. "The Raven" would be a worthy choice for poem, but I felt that I needed to choose one of his short stories. "Tell-Tale Heart", "The Fall of the House of Usher", "The Pit and the Pendulum" all could be solid choices for this list. However, I'm going to go with:

The Cask of Amontillado, Edgar Allan Poe

cartman's list:

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story - 3.2 The Cask of Amontillado, Edgar Allan Poe
3. Poem
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction - 2.9 Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, Lewis Carroll
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially) - 1.2: The Lord of The Rings Trilogy (Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King), J.R.R. Tolkein
6. Sport Related
7. Children's
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

waste of Poe

A Poem?

I think A Christmas Carol is just a bit too long to be considered a "short story" is all.

I knew it was a stretch. But I really feel autobiography/biography is a very difficult section to fill (perhaps the most difficult), and it was a way for me to get two of the best nonfiction books into the same list (assuming I get a really good one for that category, and I should).