I wouldn't doubt it and it would be a smart idea.

If they can get through the bottom of the 6th tied, I think they might call it at that point...

SI

I can only guess he meant that he wants a delay to work on the field/wait for better weather.

But ya, he ain't doing that.

So if they call this game, does it end in a tie, and we go back Tampa with the series at 3-1-1?

Wouldn't they just pick up tomorrow from where they left off?

Has a World Series game ever been called after six or seven innings because of weather? Although it is permissible by rule to end the game early I would think they'd rather wait a few hours and try to play a nine inning game tonight even if it takes until two or three in the morning just because it's the World Series.

Yeah, suspended game

SI

No, no. They follow the Bettman route and have a home-run hitting contest to decide it.

With Fred Flinstone bats.

We'd be sitting around at 2am waiting for them to pick up and the Phils would bitch because they had to wait so long or the Rays and baseball would bitch because the World Series game was decided on a crap field in 6 innings.

SI

This sucks.

What are Buck and McCarver talking about? Everyone know the only reason they stopped it now is because it was tied. They would not have stopped it yet if it were not tied.

Here's what NOAA has to say that they keep glossing over:

Tuesday: Rain, mainly before 2pm. High near 46. Windy, with a west wind between 20 and 28 mph, with gusts as high as 46 mph. Chance of precipitation is 80%. New rainfall amounts between a tenth and quarter of an inch possible.

Tuesday Night: A chance of showers, mainly before 1am. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 38. Breezy, with a west wind between 15 and 20 mph, with gusts as high as 33 mph. Chance of precipitation is 30%.

Sure, it's going to suck tomorrow night but a chance of precipitation of 30% and rain likely ending by 2pm but for sure by 1am... well, they can get it in but it will be in the 30s and bitterly cold.

SI

This makes me yearn to listen to Chris Wheeler and he's a handful in himself.

Fuck mlb. The fix is.on. Its not like the field was any better going into the 6th. Assfucks

No-win situation.

You really think they should have called the game and award it to the Phillies?

What could be worse is that MLB uses this as a reason to go neutral site for the WS. That would be a lousy move. The greatest thing that the WS has going for it is having local fans in local venues.

I call "Milwaukee" in the "what neutral field site" pool. You all lose, suckers ;)

SI

Screw that...they should play in PNC. It would be the only time the park would see good baseball.

I'm wondering what happens if the weather is bad enough that they can't resume tomorrow. Do they play the rest of Game 5 on Wed. in Tampa?

Nope, this game has to finish in Philly first.

Does it? I would think MLB would have some discretion to play it somewhere else, if not Tampa, as much a disaster as that would be.

Reminds me of the '88 Stanley Cup finals. Game 4 in Boston was postponed by power outage. So they moved that game to end of the series, to be played if necessary, and moved right on to Game 5 in Edmonton. Horribly unfair, but that was before everybody whined about everything.

Ummm, aren't those the rules? If you start a game with a set of rules you have to apply them.

Yes it does, the game is suspended to be resumed when the weather lets up. They're not going to move the game. The only way that happens is if Citizen's Bank Park is blown up.

Official Rules | MLB.com: Official info

I don't care who wins, but I'm glad the Rays tied that game up. What a joke playing in that shitty weather.

Right now Sportsnet (the Canadian network that carries the series) is showing Game Three, picking it up at 2-1 in the 6th with Moyer pitching.

That is going to seriously screw with some people's heads.

There's no rule about when an umpire has to call a game. Thus, if they call the game they're awarding the World Series to Philadelphia based on the discretion regarding weather rules. You don't see why MLB might want to avoid that?

As a Rays homer I know if the phils don't swing they would never get called out!;)

The last 2 innings really shouldn't have been played but they had no choice they don't want to call the game after 4 1/2. I really expected every pitch to be called a strike to try and move the game through.

I will say that buck was an idiot saying that Maddon should ask for a rain delay after the game was official with the Rays trailing!

Yeah, really... that'd be a far bigger fiasco than the tied All Star Game.

I'd have taken the walk-off weather win after 5, fuck it, I'm 33 and can't really remember the phils winning it when I was 5. 28 fucking years of futility...I'd have taken it.

Slap a big fuckin asterisk or whatever you gotta go.

Fuck Selig and this horrible ref crew.

Like the Commish said, they'll wait until the next available day of decent weather in Philly. (Tues. or Wed.)

It would be an unfair advantage against Philly playing as a "home team" in Tampa.

Plus, it would also deprive the home fans in Philly of witnessing the Phillies clinch at CBP.

Stupid question. If the suspended game is made up tomorrow night and the Rays somehow win, does that mean game 6 would be Wednesday or Thursday?

SI

Phillies will pull off one of those patented rallies,
and win it for the people of Philly, in CBP.

Probably Thursday, given 1 day for travel.

This will not be needed though as the Phillies will win it in 5. :)

This reminds me of some little league bullshit when I was 12. We were in the quarter finals of the county tourney, something like 19-0. We were up by a few runs early, there was a major rain storm. Big delay, but it got back underway. My one friend, our best pitcher, couldn't get that critical last out and it got called cause of darkness tied.

The next day, we couldn't use our good pitchers again, and lost 13-12.

*sigh*

What a nightmare this is for MLB

I don't believe there will be a travel day. Originally, when they were talking about raining out Saturday, they were going to play Tuesday and then continue on Wednesday. They certainly could take a different approach now but I believe they'll do it as they intended.

Maybe they could play indoors, where the Sixers play. :D

I would hate the concept of having a neutral field WS, but I suppose I could deal if they built a state of the art retractable roof facility in Cooperstown.

Or maybe erect a big-like tent for CBP. :D

I'm not a fan of that. The beauty of baseball is each field is different and teams are familiar with the quirks of their ballpark. It is a true homefield advantage.

Not to mention teams in the east ( NY, Boston, Philly) would constitute 85% of the fans in the stadium, so in a series like this it would be like 7 home games for the Phils from a crowd support standpoint.

Is the Nationals park a viable location?
No far from Philly.

Move it to Indy then, and play it at Lucas Oil or something. I mean, realistically the thing could have been snowed out, I don't think anyone wants that.

I think that wold absolutly destroy the atmosphere of the games. It's not like the superbowl which is a single game event over a weekend. Fans of the teams playing wouldn't be able to travel to a nuetral site location for a wednesday night game.

Selig says (I think, if this context of this article is correct), says he wasn't going to let the series end via shortened rain-out game, that it would have simply been a "rain delay" of several days, if necessary:

In a first, World Series game suspended | MLB.com: News

"Even if the Rays hadn't tied the game in the sixth, the game wasn't going to be called, which would've resulted in the World Series championship being awarded to the Phillies.

"I was not going to allow that to happen," said Selig, who said the rain delay could have lasted two or three days, if necessary.

With rain forecast for Philadelphia on both Tuesday and Wednesday, Selig said he will not move the remainder of the Fall Classic to the domed confines of Tropicana Field.

"We'll stay here if we have to celebrate Thanksgiving here," said Selig.

So I guess the game is now technically "suspended", whereas if it wasn't a tie, it'd merely be a "delay".

I dunno. Like I said- since it was tied, it's not so bad. No one really got cheated unless you're looking through really hardcore Phillies glasses. They're going to have their chance to win tomorrow night.

And it sure as hell is better than giving a team a win in barely 5 innings during a game where they shouldn't have really been playing at all with the conditions the way they were.

All in all, MLB was bailed out tonight and this gives a little more story to this series.

SI

Absolutely need to write this into the rules so that if a similar situation comes up, this doesn't give MLB a huge black eye on its biggest stage. Hell, every World Series game must go 9 innings (or 8.5 if the home team is winning at that point).

SI

Yeah, they should've ended it well before it got to that point. Would've been more fair to end it before it was an official game to give them a do-over. But oh well...

You wouldn't think it would be that difficult to put that in the rules (and contingencies for All-Star games).

Sure, it's a first, but really not impossible to predict. Put a bunch of baseball guys in a meeting room for a weekend and they can come up with these scenarios and plan for them.

Once again, this just proves how beholden sports has become to the almighty TV dollar. I guarantee you Fox executives had some part in trying to push the game on last night.

"We can't have it interfere with House & Fringe... play the game Bud!". :banghead:

Dola

I've heard several pundits and even a Tampa Bay player refer to the fact that Hamels is now out of the game.

Well... not so fast! I believe he is still in the game. He was due to hit in the bottom of the 6th, so I suspected he would be pulled, but since that never happened...

The weather here today is crappy, and there are possible rain/snow showers tomorrow. Any of you think there is a chance Hamels could stay in the game if they didn't pick the game back up until Thursday night?

There's no way Hamels goes if it's tonight- you just can't recover that quickly from a longish outing, particularly in those conditions. I bet his arm was jello in the 6th inning, being out in the cold and rain. Same with Kazmir. That said, if there is still a travel day built in, there's a chance he could come back on 3 days rest for game 7.

The Rays have a bit more intriguing pitching decision for tonight. I would think that Shields would give them the best opportunity to win tonight. However, if he goes, then they have absolutely no chance of winning the series. The only way they could possibly win is if Shields and Garza go in the last 2 games unless there's some freak scenario where we have to wait 2 more days and Kazmir can go again.

It's pretty clear Sonanstine was lost out there in game 4 and, really, he's not a "playoff caliber" pitcher. Then again, I would have said the same thing about Jamie Moyer and look what he did. But the typical "all hands on deck" scenario of an elimination game probably can't hold if you want any chance of winning the series.

SI

I'm with you DC...

House appears new but Fringe is a repeat :).

Nice-
On the fly rule making. WTG bud selig.

And actually a GREAT decision by Selig.

If he hadn't opened his damn mouth, it would have been ok because everything is within the rules. Or I heard this morning that Gillick and Silverman had agreed before the game to not let it end before all 9 innings. So, just go and say that so that it's not another "Bud being Bud" moment and let Phillies fans get mad at Gillick for agreeing to it in the first place.

SI

Bad decisions from the evening:

Starting the game in the first place
Not stopping the game well before the 4th inning.

Good decisions from the evening:

Stopping the game once it was tied
Not letting the game end before 9 innings in a rain shortened World series clincher.

Yeah, they should have delayed the start, and cancelled it. That would have been ideal.

Then if you do start it any way, suspend it before it becomes a legal game.

Bud Selig should not be making on the fly rule changes about what happens when a game is unplayable due to weather conditions.

What you suggest would have still been an artificial decision based on discretion. Selig didn't make any rule changes.

The problem is that they can't think of these things ahead of time for some reason, and thus nobody knows what's going to happen.

If they were to cancel the game before the fifth that would have really screwed the Phils since the start from Hamels would have been a waste.

I think if you are Tampa you have to go with Shields tonight. They have to put themselves in a position to get back to Tampa before they worry about who to start in game 7.

This is the sport where Kennisaw Mountain Landis was Commissioner, right? It seems that on the fly rule changes aren't very controversial for a Commissioner in this league.

You don't think they go with Price? I understand it's do or die time, but you lose Shields after a 1 to 3 inning stretch, and now you have Garza in game 6, with a big question mark for game 7?

I see the logic, but I can't imagine that's what you do. It's a bad spot to be in.

Hamels is done, but his pitch count was lower. Barring the weather, I was anticipating him to go at least 7, if not 8. Then Romero or Madson, following by Lidge in the 9th.

I would be shocked if Hammels comes back. It has nothing to do with what Hammels pitch count was. You can't have him throw 6 innings, sit for 24 hours then come back, he is risking major injury there.

As for Price, I dont want a rookie in that spot, no matter who it is. I say start Shields, get back to Tampa and start Price in game 7 if you have to and hope he can string 3-4 innings together. I realize it's far from perfect, but if Price goes tonight and gives up a few runs they have 2 innings to get them back, at least if he starts game 7 and gets knocked around they have the whole game to scratch their way back.

This is one I'll debate with people forever and a day. You think that if Bud had stopped it in the, say, the 4th with the Phillies winning that they wouldn't be screaming *even more* bloody murder than this morning?

SI

I don't disagree on Hamels, all signs point to him being done.

I just don't think you waste Shields on that, of course, the game is shortened in logic, but it's still a tie and the game can go on. Still I doubt Price gets Game 7.

Most Philly fans I believe are fine with the decision, they didn't want a cheap win. The disappointment is that Hamels was fine until the rain got too bad, and the weather was badly affecting his ability to pitch and in reality cost the runs.

Kazmir on the other hand got knocked early and was lucky it wasn't worse with the men left on base. I will state that the strike zone fluctuated but that's not something that a Philly fan can control.

I don't think you'll ever see a neutral ground World Series, too much money lost doing that.

Is it true that it is snowing right now in Philly?

I wouldn't be suprised. We're supposed to get snow tonight here, so that storm is probably passing through there right now.

I'm about an hour east of Philly....It's DREADFUL here. Windiest I've ever seen since I've lived here and it's pouring. Not nearly cold enough here to snow though.

My sister's family is a bit west of Philly. They had some wet snow for a bit but it's gone now, more bad weather ahead though.

And everyone was worried about rain in TAMPA when they were first hunting for a franchise...

45 minutes west of Philly and it's a nasty sleet combo...I have to drive an hour further and it's possibly snowing...fortunately I plan to purchase Fallout 3 and enjoy.

The game wont be played tonight, a decision has been made.

Good call actually.

Early forecast is that it should clear out by tomorrow afternoon, giving enough time to work on the field by 8:37 PM tomorrow.

BTW, I live w/in 20 miles of CBP and can tell you that it's not sleet yet, but threatening to turn into it.

I'm not leaving my apartment for the rest of the day.

And, yes, I was in the city last night (on 15th and Spruce).

Despite the early end to the game, I didn't get home until 2:00 A.M. as the SEPTA train was essentially a cattle car. It was bad.

I haven;t looked yet. Are they still having a travel day if there is a game 6 or will it be on Thursday? I ask because it makes for an interesting possibility. If there is a travel day than Hamels would be ready to go for game 7 with a full 4 days rest (if there is a game 7 that is).

Obviously I would like to see this end tomorrow night in the potentially bizare 3 1/2 inning game.

Go Phils!!!

I've been scouring for information on that all day. This is the most that I found:


World Series schedule uncertain | MLB.com: News

Honestly, I somewhat wonder if that's going to be a way to MLB to "repay" the Phillies a little bit, should they lose tomorrow.

I know there's been argument here and in other places whether the Phillies were significantly detrimented by last night's result. While I don't think Philadelphia was significantly detrimented by what happened last night, it is a "little" unfair that the Phils were forced to play defense in the sloppiest conditions that the field was in. Further, Hamels was still pitching well, but for the weather. So, there might be a slight argument that MLB might add a travel day to almost have a little bit of a re-do of the first six innings of Game 5 in Game 7 (should it get that far).

In either case, it will definitely start conspiracy theories.

Also, I know the Phillies have been cautious with Hamels and not wanting him to go on short rest.

However:

-Hamels is the unquestioned ace of that team.
-Hamels has not gone on short rest the entire season.
-Hamels only threw 75 pitches in Game 5.
-Game 7 (w/o a travel day) would be Friday at the earliest.
-It would be Game Freaking 7 of the World Series.

Even though the Phillies have been very cautious with Hamels, I'd hope that it just makes too much sense to pitch him under these conditions.

You know what, if Selig had made it known to everyone that there was no way the game would end in less than 9 innings, I wouldn't have a beef. Of course he told both teams, we're finding out, but hey....how about telling the media(and therefore the fans). His whole "we're going to use common sense" thing peeved me. I mean, for the last god knows however many years, they've used the same rainout/legal game standards. But, whatever. I thought Harry Kalas was going to keel over, dude was pretty pissed off.

And of course, no plans are made as to whether there is a travel day or not, yet. Let's make some more rules on the fly buddy Bud.

What exactly was Kalas pissed about. ( I love him as a broadcaster BTW)

Other than he'd called 10k losses as a broadcaster? :)

He was pissed because he was going on the assumption that 100 years of what constituted a legal game would remain as the common law, and really didn't understand why they would play the top of the 6th in shit conditions, but not the bottom. Something to that effect, it was just some emotion maybe I wasn't expecting.

Listening to Bud speak on ESPN last night, he said he doubts that there will be a travel day.

Again, I think this really important part is bolded for emphasis. Now, if Gillick didn't go and tell Manuel and by proxy the team, then that's his problem, not Bud's. And, again, it would have been nice to tell the broadcast booth, too, before the game so everyone had known.

That said, it's not as if Bud's winging it here- both teams agreed to it so Phillies fans need to stop being pissed because in the end it seems like they're just pissed because they weren't told not because it wasn't fair.

SI

Im not pissed because of that...I am pissed because they either should've halted the game at the bottom of the 5th or since they started the 6th...finish the 6th.

Seriously ask yourself- if you didn't know about the agreement, as it seems no one did, and you were up 2-1 in the bottom of the 5th and they called it, wouldn't you be screaming even more bloody murder because the rules should have given Philly a win?

Of course, it's hard to judge that in hindsight now because we know the outcome- score is tied so we for sure were going to get a delay. However, it's "easy" now because Bud was let off the hook. But what if it was still 2-1, or, hell, if the Phils had scored 4 times in this muck and it was 6-1. There would have been shouts of "there's no way they were going to come back" and "those are the rules of the game" for 2 straight days while they waited to resume the game.

SI

I stated earlier in this thread. I want the Phillies to win more than anything, but I didn't want them to win because of a shorted delay game. This is the World Series...all 9 innings should be played. I'll see if I can find the comment I made earlier.

I have no issues with the suspension of the game but I don't like how they did it in the middle of an inning.

Edit: Here
http://www.osatwork.com/fofc/showpos...postcount=2876

Weather Update from CBP + 20-miles: It did not rain at all last night and pavement was bone dry. There was some moisture in the grass, but that's obviously normal for morning conditions. Thus, the field should have had some time to dry out and I'd bet some of the groundskeepers have done maintenance over the last few dry hours.

It's overcast right now, but weather reports seem to indicate that the only preceiptation expected is scattered showers. It's supposed to be "mostly cloudy" from 7:00 PM on.

Looks like game-on in about ten hours.

I think Selig is full of shit on this. I think the teams are just trying to back the commish on this by saying they "knew".

If the teams knew than why didn't the players know? If the teams were told wouldn't the media have been told? If the decision was made previously the media should have been the first to know so they could have prevented all of the controvery by letting everyone know the situation. If that was the case it would have been stopped after 5 as everyone would know and they would not have waited for the game to be tied. I think if the Rays didn't tie the game it would have been played until they did or until completion because this "decision" was not made before the game.

dola: I am not saying the game should have been declared, just that Selig is full of shit with his explanation. Or he is a complete moron and never told who should have been told.

Just a reminder that Brett Myers is a douchebag.

Extra Bases - Red Sox blog

He says that if the Red Sox had made it to the World Series, he would have refused to pitch at Fenway because of the negative reaction they gave him his first start after he slapped his wife around outside a Boston bar.

The case was dismissed because wife refused to cooperate, despite the fact there were eyewitnesses. I know victimless prosecution is a hot issue in Idaho, but I figured that's because we're a little backwards here. I'm SHOCKED that Massachusetts does this. Victims of DV refuse to cooperate a huge majority of the time - all a wife-beater like Myers has to do to avoid prosecution is to intimidate his wife even more. Great system.

Well they didn't so it doesn't matter ;)

And just so I don't get crap...I don't in any way condone his behavior.

not a great start

I disagree. Great start to the game. :)

I had never noticed how bad Werth's facial hair was. Man, that looks awful

SI

I'm starting to get the feeling this is the Phils night

lol.

or not

that double play about does it, I think