I never thought Mustang was the one. I was going to vote for Kevin if I survived.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Here was my theory for Kevin btw.

IF Kevin is the werewolf, he should immediately go for the vote and finish it, and the wolves would win.

If he's NOT the werewolf, and he's not 100% sure that Barkeep is the wolf, his safest play is to vote for himself, believe it or not. That ties it up two-two, so no lynching, (not sure on whether they go to a chomp or not).

The reason is: By voting for himself to force a tie, he makes SURE there is no lynching, and sends a message that he's a villager, and NOT a wolf. That gives the other two villagers a chance to determine which of the other two is a wolf. He's Airhogged himself, removed himself as a possible suspect.

That was f'n brilliant. *L*

Stupid wolves! Well I have discovered that I am horrible at this game. and that I definately want to play again.

Here's the full list of roles. The wolves didn't kill anyone the very first night, by my choice, since I don't like eliminating someone before the game even starts. They got super lucky with their first kill by hitting Mustang, who was the cursed!

Villager - Condors
Villager - Eaglesfan
Brutal Wolf - Kwhit
Duke - Airhog
Villager - Shorty
Bodyguard - Desnudo
Villager - Neuqua
Werewolf - Lathum
Seer - Jon
Witness - McSweeny
Villager - KevinNU7
Sorceror - NoMyths
Villager - TazFTW
Cultist - Qwikshot
Cursed - Mustang
Villager - ntndeacon
Werewolf - Swaggs
Doctor - BrianD
Hunter - GWB

Very smart.

Mustang had the 4 player vote locked up though, no matter what the strategy, since no one was voting for him, he could have switched at the last minute for either candidate and assured a win.

Correct, I was assuming that Kevin's vote came too late to change anyone elses

That was a blast, Peregrine.

Thanks for all the work. :)

Whew..

My head hurts.

And thanks Peregrine. :)

That was a blast. I'd love to do it again. Thanks for running this Peregrine.

The wolves had a lot going for them in the early part of the game, with several lynched villagers and especially getting rid of the Witness early. Then it turned against them when Jon finally got a hit on Lathum after a lot of unlucky viewing. Swaggs and Kwhit could be picked up as allies of Lathum, but Mustang was playing the opposite strategy, which was a good one. Even at the end Desnudo did a good job bodyguarding Eaglesfan the previous night, so there was a chance, but Mustang had everyone fooled.

For the Witness role, btw, the general accepted strategy is to burn this role early, because at least then you have one wolf out of the picture, and a second villager who, like Airhog, has a revealed role and is known safe. Didn't happen this time though.

Great game all, it was a lot of fun running it and seeing what people would do. If the Cursed hadn't been hit so early, who knows what would have happened. If Jon could have gotten his view in the night Desnudo protected him from death, he would have viewed Kwhit and could have saved another villager, that might have been another turning point.

One thing that I wonder. I don't know if players can send PM's between each other. but if the Duke is out there (ie, revealed his Duke role in a lynching), it might be good for the Seer to send him a report on who he's viewed, and the results. That way, the Viewed people either have two people against their lynching if they are innocent, or two people to vote for them as a wolf (if they are one)

Three big points (after obviously getting Mustang to turn to a wolf on our first try) that I thought would swing the game:

First, Mustang voting too early for Lathum (when it looked like it would be a blowout. He didn't want to look suspicious switching, so he held his vote and we ended up lynching Lathum 5-4 and "outing" KWhit and myself).

Second was that we suspected that Eaglesfan was the bodyguard and knew Jon was the seer. We decided to gamble that Jon would either be too obvious to protect or may have been protected the night before, so we decided to try and use reverse-reverse psychology and eat him on Night 6, which obviously did not work. We thought it was over at that point. We were guaranteed of him not being protected the next night, so it ended up working out reasonably well in hindsight.

Third, ntndeacon somehow getting lynched before KWhit. Big, huge turning point that gave us another villager death, anther evening to kill, left KWhit with his brutal wolf 1-1 tradeoff, and then another evening to kill. Huge turnaround on that one.

Only wolves are allowed to send PM's between themselves. This game would be too easy IMHO, if villagers could send PM's between themselves.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!!!

Strategy-wise, I wanted to keep enough heat on me early to hopefully signal to the wolves that I wasn't a threat, but not enough to actually get voted off. Worked well (up until I got eaten). The Sorcerer is a tricky role...no real advantages (besides being able to view the Seer...but once you have, tricky to report the info). I didn't know who the Seer was when I was eaten, but I'd managed to identify KWhit as a wolf.

I also was very glad to lead the charge against what proved to be the Cultist, which was an effort to show the villagers that I was on their side while still not knocking out a crucial wolf. Worked pretty darned well...too well, though, as I'm certain that's what got me eaten. Still managed to distract folks and massage votes in a good way throughout my portion of the game.

Fantastic finish, and congrats to my werewolf compatriats for our hard-earned victory. :)

Most of the time villagers can't PM each other. In some games there is a role called the Mason (usually) which I didn't use this time, basically there are 2 or 3 masons who know each others identities and can PM each other, however they are a really powerful force for the villagers since they can discuss things behind the scenes and vouch for each other if needed.

Yep, NoMyths, the Sorceror is probably the strangest role of all. You have the Seer power, and you're invisible to the Seer, but you are in the dark and have to be careful.

I'm currently trying to fine-tune the system for my next game, which will be a bit of playtesting since I've written it from scratch. I'm not sure if it's totally balanced, and it will probably be a very brutal game, but we'll see. ;)

Then wouldn't it be pretty easy to look at the Current Active Users to see who is PM'ing to determine who is a wolf? Seems like AIM or YIM would be a better choice for the wolves, if they can.

Pretty much. I enjoyed the challenge, though...and seems like it worked out pretty well. Though not being able to affect the game in the closing days sucked. :)

Yeah, if the villagers could PM each other it'd be an overkill advantage, even if trickery was involved.

At the time, there were a few opportunities to out me. The most glaring was that Qwikshot said he said I wasn't a wolf because of my tell. I was sure someone was going to put the 2 together and accuse me.

I wasn't the most popular for not switching to protect Lathum at the time but, given my early vote, if I would have switched, I would have been dead wolf walking.. Luckily NTN came in to take my place in that role...

The whole Scrawls email/mailbox thing couldn't have come at a worse time. KWhit's mailbox WAS full.. I tried to act quickly by joking around...

All I know is that it is odd to have to type something up and review it looking for misplaced words, typing or using them instead of us.. I was so damn paranoid at times that I typed up 'I'll be back after dinner' and promptly erased it. I think Swaggs called me Neurotic.. :D

By the way, pretty awesome game Peregrine. Seems like there is quite a bit of strategy involved. I started following along a few days ago and was pretty impressed at how things seemed to balance out. Upon first reading the rules I didn't think it would be possible to do this on a forum, as people tend to want to give out too much info. However, that was proven to be a false assumption.

I am curious though, it seems like the early events really drive how well a game will unfold. The wolves hitting the cursed early really helped them in the long run. However, a wolf getting lynched early, even if by accident, could really impact the game (to the negative in my opinion).

As a result I get the impression that the quality of the game is really hit or miss, depending on what happens early on. Thoughts?

We were on AIM nightly to discuss.. I hated having to us PM's.. easy to spot really...

That was quite the finish. I'm glad I wasn't the only one that was totally confused all the way to the end.

When it looked like Lathum-me-KWhit would go out back-to-back-to-back, I though it was over. At that point, it looked like it could up being one wolf (Mustang) to six villagers.

I was thinking then that with all the good luck we had had (good run of lynchings, getting the cursed early, killing the witness early, the hunter killing another villager), that if we couldn't win this one, it would be near impossible to win as wolves.

Was this the vote that ended up with Airhog switching near the end because he was trying to draw the wolves out? You narrowly avoided playing into his hands.

Thought/suggestion:

Under the current rules everyone is trying to look like a villager. Seems like there should be a role where it is beneficial to look like a wolf. So, I came up with the Martyr.

If a Martyr is lynched, the first innocent villager eliminated (by lynching or eating) would be brought back into the game. Obviously the Martyr would die, but it would be a net zero effect on the count.

This might be a huge swing for the villagers, as it would 'void' an innocent being killed off, as well as increase the number of known villagers.

It would also have the effect of potentially bringing back into the game someone who was eliminated early, thus making it more fun for that innocent.

There might need to be some tweaks, as it sounds like a big advantage for the villagers, but thought I'd toss it out for Peregrine to consider.

I think I was chatting with Lathum at the time and I told him Airhog was baiting us to do something... sure enough, with 3 minutes left, airhog switched..

When I first stated that I wanted to eat Neuqua I was just joking around. However, I decided to run with it. I probably should have waited a bit longer to use my power, however given that I had very bad luck fingering the wolfs I dont think it really mattered except to taz. I was surprised that they didnt eat me the following night, but I guess a free kill is a good thing to have.

I definately hope I can play in the next game :)

Actually, I believed we left Airhog around just because

1.) He was wrong alot and helping us out.
2.) We knew who he was. Thought it would be better to take a stab in the dark at getting other roles.. (not the sorceror/cult)..

In hindsight.. should have killed him. We didn't realize he would start posting graphs and being a general pain in the ass... :)

Of course since he was pretty nearly always wrong, we villagers shoulda used that as a clear sign whoever Airhog was voting for was innocent.

Of COurse my record wasn't much better. I just kept accusing important good guys. oops. And coming in just in time to vote but not having enough time to read posts was not good.

What's this all about? This must be a feature of this board that I'm not aware of.

You can put me on the "wanting to play" list for that game.

I think this game shows one rule of thumb for wolves. If one of you is getting alot of votes, dont jump in and try to persuade the others from voting for your fellow wolf. If he is killed, then your screwed.

Interesting idea, though I think you'd have to use this when roles were not being revealed on death, otherwise if an important special role villager went out first the Martyr would want to sacrifice themselves immediately to bring them back.

My next game is going to have a lot more mystery, there's not going to be an explanation of the roles beforehand, and there are going to be more than just wolves vs. villagers, I think involving more factions will be fun.

Nice finish. I was sure EF was a wolf with all his obvious I'm a lowly villager talk. How does one get on the list for these games?

It's interesting, I think it depends on the game. A wolf getting hit early would hurt, but on the other hand if the remaining ones were crafty, having fewer of them would actually help them hide among the crowd. With several wolves they can almost be tripping over each other at times, and the voting patterns become a giveaway. Notice how in this game it took a while for the first wolf to die, but once he did Kwhit and Swaggs were being named by everyone.

In our first game there were a lot fewer special roles but a werewolf was lynched pretty quick, and the game ended a lot faster, with a villager win.

Well I'll be starting the new game probably on Tuesday, I'll try to gather some of the new people who have expressed interest and fill out the game with veterans. I think it will be a 16 player game, and will probably play out a good bit faster.

I'd be anxious to try this one out. I think a game without revealing roles would be fun. Lots more mystery when you don't know if a seer or bodyguard is alive or not.

I'd love to play if you are taking names.

Yes, count me in. No weekend plans here, except the A's-Chisox game. 8 straight wins and counting for the A's....

Sometimes a rose is a rose. :)

I'm interested in being included again, but would understand if you give a role to someone who didn't get a chance to play in earlier games.

Put me on the list as well. :)

Well played Mustang. I can't believe I missed by one night and it changed the whole game. I thought you were a target early, and when nothing happened the first night, I figured I was right (and definitely lucky) in picking you to protect. Nequa seemed the obvious choice the second night because of the option to frame Airhog, so I didn't think anything of it when nothing happened.

In retrospect, I wish I'd stuck to my guns on KWhit. I should have tried to convince Kevin to switch to him, instead of sticking with deacon. What prevented me was the suspicion that Kevin was the last wolf besides KWhit at that point, and it didn't matter. Even had that happened, I think you would have been low on the list of suspects, possibly the last guy to get called out, considering the way you voted.

Even had Jon viewed on the night he was protected, I don't know if we would have won. More likely it would have meant more lynching of villagers. I just don't see how anyone would have deduced it was Mustang.

I'd love to be involved again, but I'll understand if you want to give new players a chance. Thanks again for running these games. I've enjoyed them a lot. :)

Nice work Mustang. I guess I can be happy that I made it to the Final 2. Would have been cool if the Hunter was in the Final 4 to freak you out.

I'd like to continue playing this game but it seems like my current schedule really limits my playing after 4pm. If there is a game with deadlines during the day I'd love to play again.

Peregrine, IMO you should take PMs for requests to play and then try and fill the game with as many newbies as possible, and then add the veterans

so why did the wolves kill me?