oh okay. i honestly haven't read all the various news stories versions of it. that makes more sense then.

Here's a great take on the story by John McWhorter. He's not always my cup of tea, but he writes from a somewhat conservative position and has argued that racism isn't the biggest problem for African-Americans.

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/mcwho...-he-isn-t.aspx

I'm going to take the point that the debate was shifted away from Obama's comments as an admission that he shouldn't have made the comments that he did. I could give a rat's ass who's to blame for the actual incident. My only point was to note that our President acted very unpresidential when queried on the matter.

I'm going to take the lack debate on Obama's suit as an admission that his suit was ugly. Obamaniacs teh sux!

and I would argue that what one views as 'presidential' or 'not presidential' has been bastardized by the last 16 years of 'presidential', partisan goggles, socioeconomics and a bunch of other stuff.

Or maybe no one wants to argue with you.

Edit: Oh wait, Flasch does.

:withstupid:

Yelling in public is an arrestable offense? Really?

"Disturbing the Peace"

Every state has a disturbing the peace/disorderly conduct statute.

The one Gates was arrested under sounds like it was written 300 years ago (it may well have been):

"Chapter 272: Section 53. Penalty for certain offenses

Section 53. Common night walkers, common street walkers, both male and female, common railers and brawlers, persons who with offensive and disorderly acts or language accost or annoy persons of the opposite sex, lewd, wanton and lascivious persons in speech or behavior, idle and disorderly persons, disturbers of the peace, keepers of noisy and disorderly houses, and persons guilty of indecent exposure may be punished by imprisonment in a jail or house of correction for not more than six months, or by a fine of not more than two hundred dollars, or by both such fine and imprisonment."

A more modern one, like Idaho's, reads like this:

18-6409. DISTURBING THE PEACE. Every person who maliciously and wilfully
disturbs the peace or quiet of any neighborhood, family or person, by loud or
unusual noise, or by tumultuous or offensive conduct, or by threatening,
traducing, quarreling, challenging to fight or fighting, or fires any gun or
pistol, or uses any vulgar, profane or indecent language within the presence
or hearing of children, in a loud and boisterous manner, is guilty of a
misdemeanor.

I have no idea why states can't or won't ammend these statutes to something more workable. You're obviously not going to arrest everyone that violates these statutes. And the second you make a choice - you open yourself up to criticisim.

i hope that's not a dig on our fine commonwealth :rant:

So you can't swear around children in Idaho? Good to know.

Only the legislature :)

LOL - I wonder if I can get one for Connecticut.

that's awesome - where'd you find that??? linky!!!!

But surely "disturbing the peace/disorderly conduct" is a little more than just yelling, right?

I love how the MA statute defines disturbing the peace as "people disturbing the peace".

I wouldn't think so, and especially not when you're yelling at a cop who is simply trying to do his job like some sort of raving lunatic. Next time I hope they don't bother to respond to a call at this home at all, would be be highly poetic justice. And then we can get a whole different set of whining from the usual, err, suspects.

Obama's remarks were nothing more than purely racially motivated pandering from a blithering idiot and shows him precisely for what a worthless sack of shit he is.

As a practical matter, yes. As a practical matter, the rule is really, "If an officer tells you to knock it off, knock it off" and "don't screw with any civilian to the extent that it goes beyond our societal norms of what's acceptable (like blaring a radio in the middle of a residential street at 2AM)

But litterally, I think yelling loudly is covered in both statute examples. (As are activites that millions of people do all the time without being arrested). The problem with statutes being so broad is that any actual arrest or citation under it is going to be questioned. And it obviously does create the possibility of arbitrary racial enforcement, etc.

It is actually a t-shirt available from T-shirt hell. (I had to look for an alternate link since I can't get there from work and wouldn't post the link here... definite NSFW)

gotcha...goodstuff

Are YOU really upset about this? Or are the websites you read that tell you what to think the ones that are upset over this? It's just odd how everything you think is bad are the same exact things that are mentioned in the daily talking points by the Republican party.

Yes, the thought that we'd discuss topics in a political thread in a timely manner is such a foreign idea. I find it really odd that everything I mention that I think is good is ALSO mentioned in the daily talking points of various organizations/websites.

I don't use any sites as a barometer to what I think, but if it serves as a tool for you to attempt to minimize my opinions, feel free. If there's anyone that knows how to overgeneralize things and lump people into groups on this board without any real backing, it's definitely you.

It just comes across odd to me that your daily "irate" moment at the President just so happens to be the same thing that every right leaning website is "irate" about. It must be some giant coincidence though.

Isn't this essentially what happened at the press conference?

Which is your usual MO in most debates. Lump poster X into a group and ridicule them for agreeing with that group rather than discussion on the merits of said topic. It's a relatively tired and uninspired method of debate that belongs in the Beltway and its partisan politics, but feel free to continue if discussing the topic itself is difficult.

My personal opinion is the President should have probably not said anything. There is really no reason to politicize an issue like this.

The cop is still a fucking bafoon. Bust into anyone's house and accuse them of breaking in and you'll find a lot of pissed off people. I don't know if it was racist at all, but definitely unnecessary. Cop should have apologized, put his tail between his legs and drove off.

Well, at least we're back on topic.

As stated before, there was nothing wrong with the president responding that he was aware of the situation and that the local law enforcement would handle it in the appropriate manner. But everything after that was out of line and not something that the president should be saying or doing. He had no business giving an uninformed opinion on the topic, especially when it comes to placing any level of blame. He also has no business commenting on flare-ups at the local level. He's the president, not a mayor.

Thanks for the fact-based comments, Mr. Obama.

I'm not lumping you into anything. Just saying it's not really a debate. You're just regurgitating what's on every right-wing blog.

OUTRAGE: President Obama Owes Sgt. James Crowley an Apology - Swamp_Yankee’s blog - RedState
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/arti...om_of_the_Deck
Hot Air » Blog Archive » How not to win support from police unions; Update: Obama retreats; Update: Bill Cosby “shocked” by Obama’s remarks

Why not just post links to them since your beliefs seem to match them identically on a daily basis? I'm just asking for a little independent thought in this thread man.

Another perspective that I think most of us respect?

Bill Cosby ’shocked’ at Obama’s statement on Harvard prof’s arrest | csmonitor.com


Oh, sorry. Saw that it was already posted.

eh, i have no problem with MBBF bringing the subject up. I do think the level of "SHOCK" over it (namely by himself and Jon) is maybe a bit overstated though. I mean do I think it was a stupid thing for him to comment on at all and he had no business commenting on it. Yeah. But I hardly think it makes him unfit to be President or deserving of mass scorn or anything.

That's pretty funny, a guy that's an officer of the law should get out of somewhere ASAP, because he was following a call that someone was breaking into a house, shows up, and it ends up being the guys home? He should run because a guy is yelling at him about being a racist? I'm betting if the police don't show up, and Gates finds out about the call later, he is screaming that the police didn't check on his house being broken into because he's black. Obama has no business making the comment he did. I voted for him, I'm not racist, nor am I a "cop is right in every instance" kind of guy, but this is ridiculous.

This probably goes without saying, but how is this different than the usual liberal angst on the other side of the fence?

It's not. Partisians suck and are fucking up this country.

Gate's is an idiot. I don't care how well respected he is, he is clearly in the wrong. Facts are being twisted to project an agenda unrelated to his arrest. I am happy this issue didn't get a thread all to itself.

A white guy would have been treated identically.

Scratch that, he wouldn't be arrested because he wouldn't be screaming at the cops as they were trying to leave. Then again, the same could be said about majority of people regardless of color. Which brings us back to my first sentence.

And Obama shouldn't have said anything if only because they are friends.

Honestly, I rarely read political threads, but when I have I've never thought of you as a bastion of non-partisanship.

Dunno if its been said, but it appears on the "he gave his ID" front, there are conflicting stories. Gates saying he gave his Harvard ID and Driver's License, while Sgt. Crowley is saying Gates only gave his Harvard ID, which has no address on it.

Agreed. RainMaker's views fit one side pretty easily.

What side of the aisle am I on? I think my views are pretty mixed.

Why would he have his Harvard ID and not his Drivers License?

I would have checked Democrat personally or at least very heavily leaning.

If he showed his driver's license, he wouldn't have been able to get in the newspapers, increase his profile, or call a bunch of cops racist. He's a brilliant guy, I think he knew what he was doing.

It wouldn't seem that the officer would have the same motivation to lie. It's certainly possible that he just wanted to push around a rich, prominent black guy and hope that nobody would make a big deal about it. Though even at worst, the consensus seems to be he was just getting a little tired of being yelled at. All the trouble seems barely worth it for the cop, even if he's a raging racist.

I'm not sure he needs to increase his profile. He's probably one the three most famous, if not the most famous, professor at Harvard. But you're sure he orchestrated his arrest in order to make waves.

People really want to fit him into some preconceived box that I'm not sure is the right fit. Not saying that he's blameless at all, but Gates is not Al Sharpton.

Even if he showed his drivers license, had an oil painting of himself visible from the door, a carved marble statue of himself in a Greek discus thrower pose and a sign that said 'Gate's Residence', I'd fully expect the cops to still call it in.

Now that it's clear we live in a post-racial world I think I'll step away from this conversation for a while. Let me know when we're back to Obama being a socialist.

Ya, what I said is probably taking it a tad too far. I'm sure he's not used to ANYONE questioning him, whether it be law enforcement or other faculty. Not any different than how a rich white man with a sense of entitlement might react to such a situation (except for the rantings about racisim).

I think it's just a shame that the media has nothing else to report on and this has become the topic du jour. Ideological lines have been drawn. The cop is a racist/Gates is a race-baiter. I don't know much about the cop, but from what I've read he seems like a pretty good guy. I do know a bit about Gates, and he is a historical scholar who tends to take fairly measured views on things. All of that is getting lost though (and certainly Gates is to blame for it to some degree).

I think if anything I go the other way. I'm against welfare, food stamps, and a lot of big government spending. I'm for a flat tax or at least making the current system much less progressive. Much less spending overall, although still spending wisely on things that progress our society (science, research, technology, etc).

Socially I lean to the left but probably more Libertarian than anything. I just think government should stay out of our lives for the most part. I'm still pro-death penalty and pro-gun rights (to an extent).

I don't think it was some big conspiracy. I think he's just a blowhard. I think a lot of us would be pissed if a cop entered our home and questioned our residency there. Considering it's probably a very white neighborhood, I could see why he'd be a little suspicious. His anger though should probably be toward the neighbor who called the cops. I mean the cop was just responding to a break-in call.

Anyways, there was no reason to arrest him. Sure the guy is a douche who wanted to stand on his soapbox, but the whole situation was kind of fucked up and the cop should have just left the scene and took an ego hit. I doubt the cop was as conversational as his report stated, while I'm also sure the guy was probably a bigger douche than he said he was.

"Shock" might be overstating it for me. I'm shocked that Obama behaved in such a transparent manner, he's actually proven to be adept enough at being discreet in his biases to fool a fairly large number of people. That he shot off his mouth like another two-bit whiny ass know nothing that looks through a racial prism at the first opportunity doesn't even mildly surprise me, much less shock me.

Here's the big difference: I'd think a white-trash half wit or a direct descendant of the Rockefellers who went off a cop that was investigating a burglary at his home was just as equally deserving of being cuffed & booked as the black professor in the same situation. If this had involved a white homeowner, Obama wouldn't have said shit & neither would any of the other bedwetting handwringers ... unless of course the cop was black in which case we could hear how the white homeowner had a problem with a black in authority.

Saw the police report and read through it. After review, there's plenty of reasons Obama is better off staying out of this battle. The racism charges by Mr Gates occurred even before the ID situation. The officer asked him to come outside since Mr. Gates was inside when he approached the front door. Mr. Gates response was 'Why, because I'm a black man in America?!?!'.

I'd love to find a person who thinks the cop was the one instigating that situation. I'm sure we'll have charges that the cop was obviously a racist.

It appears that all network nightly news telecasts are also leading the news with this story and how this distraction has hurt the push for health care legislation (Rainmaker would have you believe it's because they're all trumpeting the banter of conservative blogs). Yet another example why Mr. Obama is better off to avoid comment when his friends do something stupid and concentrate on the important issues facing all of the citizens. As I stated from the start, just stop at the point where you say you don't have the facts and move on.

I'm sure we will but they probably won't be coming from the black police official who asked the guy to help train others in order to prevent racial profiling. He's already on the record about the character of the officer, calling him " a good role model for the young recruits in the police academy".

She happens to be a Harvard fundraiser. Whether she was in the wrong or not, I wonder how much her inability to identify a faculty luminary could hurt her credibility as a university representative.

Well, well. Now, instead of speaking 'without knowing the facts', President Obama decided instead of just being quiet on the whole matter, he should defend his comments, citing what 'his suspicion' was as far as what occurred. I guess it's a bit too much to ask a person to read the publicly available police report to find out exactly what occurred instead of commenting 'without knowing the facts' or based on 'his suspicion' on the event.

Note to Obama: Shut up. You're not doing yourself any favors.

Obama Defends Cambridge Police Criticism in Henry Louis Gates Arrest - ABC News

Note to the world, who really cares? Gone in 15 minutes.

seriously. blown way out of proportion much?

Not to mention not knowing what her neighbor looks like.

Agreed. It's ironic that Obama's 'stupidity' by refusing to shut up is the only thing prolonging it at this point.

There were similar points made to what I said earlier in the following editorial. Basically states that it was silly for Obama to ever comment about this over some of the bigger issues that truly merit discussion when it comes to injustice. Also, he makes a similar point to mine noting how silly it was that this question was even asked of the president.

The Daily Dish | By Andrew Sullivan

So, I don't want to get all conspiracy on anyone, but I was thinking about this. Obama either knew or had to strongly suspect he was going to be asked about this. That means, his answer had to have been preprepared. I think Obama also had to know the response his answer would get. So, there has to be a reason that Obama wanted to get everyone talking about this, and not about the other issues out there, right?

I mean, where is the mistake in that logic?

Given the timid response from the White House staff afterwards, I'd say this was definitely off the cuff and not something that they wanted to see happen. This is what happens when the president abandons the TOTUS.

I'm not sure it distracted from the health care deadline debacle as much as it now adds problems in addition to what Obama was already dealing with.

It's called pandering to the base, or in this instance, more like pandering to his core constituency. Nothing out of the ordinary about that for politicians really, he just slightly miscalculated the response it would get from other quarters.

In the end though, it's still accomplishes it's intended purpose. He makes the core happy, will be forgotten by softer supporters, and the vast majority of those upset by it would rather have died than vote for him anyway so he's not taking a big loss.

I would have also said this name calling (which apparently HC started first on an ABC interview) was also beneath her ... but its NK, nothing else has worked.

N. Korea: Clinton 'funny lady, by no means intelligent' - CNN.com

I'm sure it was off-the-cuff. Remember, he used to be a professor, which means that he is used to spouting improvised and ill-informed answers to questions on subjects that he knows nothing about. Trust me on this one--few academics can resist the urge to pontificate on anything and everything. It comes from spending one's life in front of captive, and frequently butt-kissing, student audiences.

I am not sure that this one is going away so soon--not if all parties dig in their heels.

I saw this odd statement in that ABC News link:

What?

Don't arrest black people or the economy wins!

Uh oh, somebody was given a C in college...look out.

Yeah, Obama is not doing so well in the public speaking realm the past few days. What is that even supposed to mean?

If my memory serves, King of NY is part of the group of pontificators even if he isn't one himself. If anyone should know what professors do, it would be him. FWIW, I know exactly what he's talking about.

Hmm...maybe it's the department. I can't remember when my butt was kissed, either by a student and definitely not by a colleague. Peer review's a bitch.

Obama trying to calm this down with his surprise visit to the press corp. He had call the cop. A "teachable moment" on race relations.

I think he is acknowledging a poor choice of words/decision to elaborate his opinion during the Health Reform press conference.

Just heard a replay of his impromptu statement to the WH press corp. Thought he did that well. Really hope the 3 of them end up doing the beer and moving on.

The problem at this point doesn't even involve the three main players. The only reason he continues to comment on this issue is because there's a lot of pissed off police union leaders on the horn asking him what the hell he was thinking. He still didn't apologize. He threw his friend under the bus while still sticking with his story that the police officer also acted inappropriately. Even the beer comment didn't go over very well. There was obviously some very sarcastic laughter mixed in with regular laughs when he was cracking jokes about this issue. It wasn't very funny.

It's honestly 'stupid' at this point. Man up and finish this issue with three words. I am sorry. It's really not that difficult and as has been noted in this thread, it's ridiculous that Obama has allowed this situation to escalate to this point.

I'd say it's a different three words that would be needed to move toward fixing this: I screwed up.

He could say I'm sorry til the cows come home & there'll be a great deal of doubt about whether he's sorry he said it because he was wrong & completely out of line or if he's sorry simply because people noticed.

"I screwed up" is a good bit less unequivocal and while I might not believe he really believes it, he might be able to sell that better.

Is it "Stupid Off-The-Cuff Comment" week in the White House? Even the press secretary decided to join in on the dumb comments........


What the hell does that matter?

Duh, the law enforcement community is on the "other side", so they're not the concern of this administration.

I agree with this, he did screw up and likely acted out of emotion because he is friends with the Professor.

The way I see this playing pre-comment was he called or received a call from Gates after the incident and got his side of the story, got a little pissed off and allowed that to influence a very poor choice of words. He should have just stopped after I don't know all the facts.

It really makes him look bad, when Crowley was selected by a black superior to teach a class on avoidance of racial profiling and he went ahead and commeted without even bothering to look into the sargeants background.

I had a discrimation case filed on me and I am married to a black woman for gods sake! If I hadn't kept a well documented history on the employee, including counseling, additional training provided and disciplinary steps I could have put my company/job at risk for doing nothing wrong and I feel this is similar to the situation Crowley is in now.

It's far worse than that--I'm one myself :D and I work with them all day :mad:

"The president said he understands the sergeant who arrested Gates is an "outstanding police officer." But he added that with all that's going on in the country with health care and the economy and the wars abroad, "it doesn't make sense to arrest a guy in his own home if he's not causing a serious disturbance."

That statement and the (lack of) logic behind it are worthy of W himself :lol:

Im sure you felt the same way about past president's owning up to making what you consider a misstep right, regardless of whether or not I agree with you? BTW I couldnt write earlier but I also find it amazing that so many talking point blogs and opinion pieces get their opinions from you first as opposed to vice versa which you in turn dump into this thread as your own (which is fine cuz this is the thread for it).

I don't know, maybe officers should check the latest stock quotes and progress on Obama's health care plan before they make arrest decisions.

FWIW:


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090724/...arvard_scholar

Y'know, it does seem possible that the similarities could be largely coincidental.

I can guaranfuckingtee you that I haven't read a single political blog in days nor have I read anybody's op-ed piece on this subject but I doubt there's much difference other than colorful language in what I've said versus what they've said.

I'm sure that MBBF independently came up with the phrase TOTUS.

He's like a twitter feed for Michelle Malkin.

Considering the phrase (which I can't say I've even heard/noticed before this thread) has it's own website, I'd say it becomes reasonably ubiquitous at some point.

I mean, there's a good many phrases that originate with various sources but eventually work their way into the lexicon naturally. Even that bastion of conservatism The New York Times used the reference as far back as March

FWIW, your bat shit crazy IMO, and I respect your opinion so much more than MBBF's its not even in the same realm. ;)

Ill preemptively Duckman and say I understand that the feelings are mutual towards me for a bunch of people too :)

Right, but your point was that you would agree with many of the things he was saying without reading these sites. I totally believe you. I think that you have independent thought, as oftentimes I'm surprised by your stand on certain issues.

I am *never* surprised by his stand, or what he chooses to post each day. With sufficient time, I'm sure I could program an MBBF-bot that would be nearly indistinguishable.

But your thoughts are independent. I have no doubt that you could give two shits what Michelle Malkin or Ann Coulter has to say on the topic. Others just read those sites and believe what they are told by those people. I have no problem with either side of the argument, I'm just looking for independent thoughts. If someone is just going to regurgitate everything written at RedState, I'll read that instead.

I still can't believe how much press this Gates situation is getting. I guess on a slow news week I'd understand, but we're in the middle of two wars, a massive recession, and a nation altering health care proposal on the table. Who gives a fuck about this story?

Obama was wrong to comment on the case from his position. Gates was wrong for being a douchebag blowhard. The cop was wrong for arresting a guy for doing nothing wrong.

No one died, no one is harmed for life.

Well for starters, pretty much anybody who recognized it for what it was: a slip that indicates the true colors (no pun intended) of our TOTUS (had to work that in there since I learned it today ;)

Thank you sir, I'll take that as a compliment.

While I'm definitely a fan, any interest I may have in Coulter is not particularly motivated by any desire to have her tell me anything I don't already know.
I just read her for the articles ;)

It is a compliment. It just feels like we are creating these robots on both sides that regurgitate everything they read from their "leaders". If Sean Hannitty and Keith Olbermann came out and said everyone should start eating their shit, you'd find a ton of partisians chowing down on feces the next morning.

Yes, we all know that this has everything to do with partisan blogs and nothing to do with a President making an ass of himself on a public stage. Thanks for the clarification.

You want to point out anyone on this board that doesn't think that Hannity and Olbermann are both uninformed jackasses? I'd love to see the list.

Until then, keep up the generalized discussion that lumps people into groups rather than discussion the issue at hand as you always do.

No one gives a shit about this issue but partisians.

I'll be completely honest. I didn't even know who Michelle Malkin was until you mentioned her in your post. I'm at least aware of it now. Looks like a nut job just from reading the first page, but from the sounds of your sarcastic statement, it appears you agree so there's likely nothing further to discuss.

As for TOTUS, was there anyone who didn't know what that was that even remotely posts about politics? I'm not sure why using that commonly used abbreviation is suddenly a black mark.

Feel free to continue living in a world where only partisans care when a black man erroneously calls out a white cop as the bad guy. It fits you well.

Either you are flat out lying, or you haven't read other people's posts in any of the myriad of political threads you've posted in over the past few years.

I think this signifies the situation in the thread nicely: