What hoops said. Plus, I blew my cover to save DC from getting lynched, which I succeeded in delaying for a good portion of the game.

of course i agree.

GMing can't be easy and I want to thank CR for that.

Yup he was. The odds of that happening that fast was just 10% (and even then for sure three good guys were dead).

I've lost many games and at the said, "Well, we had a chance but it goes back to me, or someone on my side doing something here or there."

At the end of this game, I go back and say we lost this game b/c Chief didn't include Lathum in going to the crime scene after identifing him in the area, the fact that Saldana killed too much and got a bad random number, and the fact that I got a bad random number, not the mention the bad random numbers I got what with the moon not being out so I could kill.

We were gunning for the right people in alot of situations, Blade, your name was sent in to be killed, Cronin's name was sent in to be killed, and so was RA. Those kills didn't materialize however, due to random numbers. I'd say that is a balance issue somewhere.

I was pretty embarrased about that. When I saw the pm, I thought Blade had gone crazy and sent in an order for us to "hide under the bed" or something. I thought it was essential to keep some mystery about what our abilities actually were, so I just sort of improvised something about why we were seen investigating path's murder.

DT was going to kill Blade (or get a chance to) if RA didn't arrest him. May have even still had the chance, but the arrest rolled up as happening in the first phase, and DT's kill attempt in the second. Arrest before attempt == no attempt.

Include lathum in the group of the seer and his partner interrogating their witness, the other seer? Come on dubb, thats just not gonna pass with me

Saldana got unlucky, ill admit that

You got unclucky too..its not balancing, bad dice roll maybe. But i wont stand by as you tear the game down dubb

Prob, would have had a better chance since he was the target we agreed to scan that night, but neither sent in an order

it also doesn't make sense for hoops to be able to identify me and you 3 then Mr. Wed to identify you 3. Explain to me how I wasn't gonna get killed?

And im out for the night likely..

Great game everyone!

My MVP would be cronin, followed by raiders(his prison ability netted us DT and LSG. I think those two were by far the stars of the game.

Actually, killing when they both went out together would have been close to an automatic kill. 90% chance. And even if they didn't kill, the target was guaranteed to be wounded and unable to communicate for a day, and only 30% chance of identifying one of the attempted murderers.

But DT was feeling heat then and decided not to do a paired killing with bullet.

I am, in general, not a big fan of games that include "dice rolls" - but that's just me.

RA was the target that night, and he would have killed him. If Hyde doesn't kill three nights in a row, he doesn't lose control. He got two night kills in three nights without losing control, and a night off would restore that.

It was the same day we learned my urchin didnt even see everyone in the area, so why would hoops assume he did? It would have been easy to discredit, or if your going down at least fake role reveal and draw a real role out to discredit you and therefore help your team

I actually felt I should have given a more automatic kill to the bad guys (especially in the middle of the game, when I couldn't change anything), but I had done the math prior to the game on when evil could kill and how often, and it came out to more than a kill a night. It was a bad circumstance when the main evil killers got in bad spots early on. I'll admit I didn't plan adequately enough for that possibility.

Its too bad FOFC member Moriarty didnt play, that could have created some interesting dialouges :)

Don't worry. You can't attack me. I didn't give you that power. ;)

Seriously, it's all a learning experience for me, too, and will help me devleop a betetr gameplan next time around.

that's okay chief. live and learn. the game was still fun though! definately not like...any hard feelings or anything. hell, it's just a game.

you don't hafta GIVE me that power. I'm smart enough and clever enough to figure my way outside of the confines of your GAME and make things REAL. ;)

(bonus points to anyone who gets what I'm driving at here)

Good work, Chief. Even though I didn't play real well, I had a good time.

No matter how well you plan when designing your game something will go 180 degrees from what you expected.

I thought it was a well thought out and very well run game Chief, and I look forward to your next. Really enjoyed the setting.

And for bullet: :mad: :mad: :mad:

i had no team. i was solo. the bottom line is there was no escape for me

Actually, I have been trying to figure out exactly how the Lathum situation worked out with MrWednesday, because they never were in the same area. MrWednesday saw ntndeacon, Blade and st cronin at Fouts' death in Whitechapel--and they were all there to investigate in their roles. Lathum wasn't in Whitechapel that night, and MrWednesday never went to Cavell, so he could never have seen Lathum.

I am beginning to think I am not either. I will probably limit their impact in the future.

yeah, but all 3 were in cavell where hoops saw them, all they did was put 2 and 2 together

Thanks, everyone, for playing and the kind words (and the constructive criticism, too).

What 2 and 2 did they put together? Who did you kill that night?

i didn't kill anyone dude! But if hoops can identify all 4 people in one section. Then 3 of those people run to another section and are identified by Mr. Wed doesn't logic dictate that hoops and Mr. Wed are gonna figure out who the fourth person is?

Yay! we won! Another thing that helped us is we knew most of the prostitutes on Night 0. I lucked into the right area in a steak out. and I was following hoops solely because it seemed obvious to me that he had outted himself as a prostitute. glad I did, since it seemed to lead at least incidentally to Jack. :)

I just reviewed the PMs on Night One, and I told ntndeacon and hoops that they saw Lathum passing through. Blade and stcronin did not see you, because they were focused on ntndeacon. hoops was going to see pretty much anyone who came into the district that night. So was ntndeacon, because he automatically takes an observer role on a district when his "following target" spends all night there. Both were told you didn't seem to be up to anything and were passing through.

Not excusing anything, just trying to get the info out there.

But so what if they did? I am trying to understand why simply seeing you in Cavell gets you killed. You didn't do anything that night. You could have been out doing a number of things, especially that early in the game, and plenty of people were out and about and seen that night. Not everyone who was out immediately went to Whitechapel to see Fouts' or BrianD's body, and in fact, the only people who did had reasons to be there (Holmes-Watson-ntndeacon investigating, and MrWed patrolling the area when Fouts was killed).

It was simple bad luck that you picked to check out the area where ntndeacon was confronted by Blade and cronin. What happened does not mean you automatically get picked out as a killer. It's just the way it played out from interactions you and others took off of those actions, from which numerous possibilities were available.

If this exact game was played out again, I could see a different possible outcome. If prostitutes had been killed early, much of the early-game information would never have been available. Blade/Cronin would have eventually picked up some clues, but the real damage was done with all of the prostitute talk. Killing so many innocents early allowed too much info to be shared.

Knowing now how all of the mechanics work, I can see the bad guys being a little more daring and going after the major roles. This just happened to be a bad game to play cautiously.

The Lathum situation was unfortunate as well. Had he been in a different area that night, he probably would have lived much longer.

then i guess it was bad luck

This is definitely true. Without the prostitute chatter, I probably would not have picked dubb to look at. The challenge in crafting a WW game is in setting the right degree of difficulty for the village to form a COT. In this game, it may have been a little too easy. Most games, the GM makes it a little bit too hard (imo).

Yeah, I never thanked you Izulde... much appreciated.

Bingo. Shout out to the normal Londoners who took one for the team on night 1.

I knew that once I had hoops' version of my view of you guys at night. I saw Watson grab Schmidty, hoops saw Blade do it. :) I wonder if any bad guys bought that part of your act? (Guess I might find out as I read the rest of the thread...)

I don't recall if I was alive or dead at that point.

I had a pretty good idea about RA at some point during the day when I defended Blade.

I think Blade said at some point that I had identified him on night 1, but that's not true -- I hadn't drawn any inference from seeing him together with st.cronin and ntndeacon.

I trust DC understands now why I was intentionally vague about why I was in Bishopsgate on night 1. :)

If we're counting breaks, how about me seeing Blade and st.cronin (lucky that I was patrolling the right district), identifying one as Watson (only CR can say whether there was any chance involved in that), and giving a 100% rock solid vouch for Blade at a point where he was coming under fire?

Wouldn't be the first time that we reached the right conclusion for entirely the wrong reasons. :)

My role seems to have been a sort of super-witness; maybe if things turned up right, I could have done a little bodyguard too, CR?

I could patrol anywhere from two to four sectors in a night, with decreasing effectiveness if I patrolled more; hence, I never went beyond two, and to take a shot at protecting myself, after the attention I attracted on day 2 I determined that I would patrol Cavell (where I lived) every night. Incidentally, this was one reason I raised the idea of stating where people lived, I thought maybe if I wanted to semi-protect someone I might patrol the area where they lived.

Night 1: Bishopsgate and Whitechapel Rd. I was totally forthcoming about Whitechapel Rd. I tried to omit Bishopsgate completely: I had only seen two prostitutes, with Jack at large they were possible targets, and I felt that the less public my role was the better for my survival. That turned against me when DC got all huffy about me being less than forthcoming -- I trust you understand now what I was doing and why I didn't want to talk about it.

Blade seems to be struck by paranoia in thinking that seeing him, ntndeacon, and st.cronin together was a giant beacon in the night, but I really don't think there was any reason to associate their response to my call with any particular roles.

Night 2: Bishopsgate and Cavell. One of the turning points of the game, as IDed Holmes and Watson in Cavell, and so was able to vouch for Blade during day 3.

I shaded who the other member besides Blade was in the pair when Blade came up. I divulged everything I knew short of the complete reveal of one of them as Watson, that was the stopping point where hoops wouldn't trust me and I couldn't give any more information.

At this point, I actually thought that there was enough information out there that someone really clever could positively ID Holmes and Watson, but it doesn't appear that it happened. I was a little surprised hoops didn't catch on, although I guess maybe he was hung up on the urchin thing, and that making him think Blade was Fagin?

Night 3, I was killed... and at that point, I think I had discharged my usefulness, since I basically set up ironclad trust on Blade, although I hadn't given anything up on st.cronin. Kinda fun watching them play it over the next day or so.

In addition to the hits Blade and st.cronin had on dubb and saldana, there were two other turning points that were at least as important:

1. Lathum (Jack) lynched on day 2 -- freed the prostitutes to talk freely about their role and their business, and allowed folks like me to be less circumspect in talking about our movements and who we had seen

2. I positively ID Holmes and Watson on night 2 -- created the level of trust on day 3, where I was able to stick up for Blade and indirectly push the entire circle of trust.

If the first doesn't happen, there's an extra killer and we potentially have a lot less information about who was a customer of who.

If the second doesn't happen, either Blade is lynched, or he reveals, or both; as it was, the reveal was put off for at least one more day and I think two.

Oh, if anyone wants our night actions(we had no night 0 action, like DaddyTorgo..that was part of the reason i figured he was special, and with it evil):

#2 isnt certain, since i had RAs trust as well and he was another major role. But he didnt need to stick up for me since you were

Blade, if you guys had read the night 1 carefully, you had my role. I stated publicly that I called for help, the PM said that you responded to the cry of the night watchman. :)

Well, i trusted you from night one..but neither cronin or i caught that...we had your pegged before night 2 though, so it made a difference on not trusting you on day 2...not too big a deal

that should say i thought you were good from day one, trusted you at the end of day 2

Mr. W, thats actually incorrect..you cried out for us to come to brians death, not fouts' i thought...there are two seperate cries, were you fouts and not brian?

Actually I may have contributed to this unintentionally. I thought that you were gunning for hoops and blade and st. cronin chased you off. Now I feel a little foolish because they didn't even see you!

Just dropping in real quick to say thanks to chief for running this game.

I award myself the self-proclaimed Schmidty award for this game.

Its very tough to run a balanced game with 25 people, I know this from first hand. Every extra role out there just makes it tougher. I'm sure there never was a perfect WW game, but I enjoyed the storyline and playing in this one. Thanks again Chief for running it.

Hey Guys. I probably blew this game for the bad guys. On Saturday I got hit with a softball square in my temple at softball tryouts for the high school I am working at. I was out of commision until Monday night because of the concusion it gave me. I dont know if it would have mattered much since I was in jail Saturday I think anyway.... but I wasn't nearly as active as I should have been and wanted y'all to know why.

Also, once Jonathin and Schmidty were killed I had no uses other than one kill. I used that on Mr Wed the third night

I was for Fouts, not Brian.

That's horrible. I think I speak for everyone when I say that takes precedent over the game. The good news is that you are able to be on the computer this quickly. Hope you the best in your recovery.