Is the thought here that he is going to steal the election and this isn't a matter anymore, or has he accepted that he's not going to win and he's just trying to grab what he can to maximize his greed and corruption before getting pardoned by Pence or blatantly pardoning himself.

As if I was surprised:

Biden warns of Russian election interference after receiving intelligence briefings | TheHill

I just think he doesn't care about issues unless they are about him. Pandemic stuff is work and he just wants to watch TV and tweet.

Yep, it's not about him, and when it is, it's bad, and he can't say things that make it better, so it's better to ignore it and move on.

I think it should go to people who need it the most first, regardless of their level of melanin. Underlying conditions, elderly, health workers, essential workers, etc. Where I probably disagree with most is that I think we need to be spreading it internationally, allies or otherwhise, far before we worry about all Americans getting it.

I also think getting it to everyone in the country takes a lot longer than a month or two. Even if we have enough of the vaccine, I don't see how we safely administer it to that many people that quickly; the logistics just aren't there.

I ate gummy bears until my stomach hurt instead. That's the real struggle.

Regardless of Biden or Trump, I don't see us giving the vaccine internationally "first" before all Americans getting it (or at least not publicly). The best is to give the formula/process to everyone (but not the actual vaccine) so they can mass produce themselves. It would be political suicide otherwise.


We now go to CVS, Walgreens etc. to get the flu shot. It wasn't that long ago when we had to go to doctor's office for that, I think around 2008+ when that changed. Nurses can give shots. I can picture a mass mobilization of healthcare professionals to get it done (well assuming its a Biden administration).

So IMO I worry more about manufacturing and distribution moreso than the actual giving of the shot.

Sitting in the bathroom tomorrow will be the real struggle

I like what Bernie is proposing and assume he had strategized with Biden and they are coordinated.

Devil is in the details ... I've seen people wearing masks in their cars, that's a little too much for me. But I've seen people walked into restaurants or Krogers unmasked and think they are selfish.

We'll see if it gets to a vote. Interesting to see how votes fall in the legislation.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/17/opini...itt/index.html

On the issue of how to make sense of Trump's actions/inactions, I have an overwhelming sense of foreboding for November. He gambled on Covid and lost, big time. George Floyd/BLM gave him an opportunity to solidify his followers, not so much for election purposes but to run interference for what might come in November. He's been pounding the fraudulent election stuff for months, and mail-in/absentee ballots are only going to be more numerous across the country thanks to his mishandling of the virus. Now look what's happening in Portland - it's like a trial balloon for how to handle dissenters.

I hate conspiracy theories, but the truth is, Trump has been getting away with lying and corruption in broad daylight for 4 years and is now more emboldened than ever. I wouldn't put it past him to try it once more, on a grander scale, to hold off the inevitable. He may already be at the point of not wanting to waste time, money and energy on winning over Americans because he knows it's a lost cause and likely because he's satisfied with the 35-40% who will follow him off a cliff. That leaves one avenue to try to stay in power, if for no reason other than to hold off any potential criminal investigations.

Do I truly believe this could happen? Not really, but he's gotten away with a laundry list of things that would have seemed crazy 4 years ago. Trump is exactly the guy to try it and I can't make any sense of his endgame other than to think of the worst case scenario given where we are and how he's responding to it all.

We will have plenty to give internationally. A recent poll suggested nearly 50% of republicans would not take the vaccine. Grassley will probably write a law that will allow insurance and drug companies to have the government subsidize production while they sell it for bank overseas.

Sell it for bank overseas? Heck, I am hearing $3,000 a dose here

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Well, if you were fine thinking unmarked federal troops disappearing people in Portland was an isolated thing

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attor...eration-legend




SI

Ken Cuccinelli confirms to NPR that they are going to be rolling this out across the country

DHS Official On Reports Of Federal Officers Detaining Protesters In Portland, Ore. : NPR


SI

So, yeah, the brownshirts are coming.

SI

nothing scary about that...dangerously close to asking for their papers.

They are practically begging for one of these folks to get killed so they can use it in the campaign.

Philando Castile showed me that the NRA was lying to my face about caring about guns.

Portland (and coming soon to a city near you) shows me that it was lying to my face about caring about tyrrany.

So, bad on me. I was stupid and I was naive, and I believed y'all. I'm sure great belly laughs were had over idiots like me:

"Can you believe these guys?! I mean, they still think we aren't a thinly veiled front for a white supremacist police state? I mean, that's some wear-your-pants-on-your-head stupid right there."

So, I am ashamed to admit it. But I was that stupid. I believed that this was about reducing government regulations. About tax rates. About freedom and personal expression.

I mean, I get it now. And I still wonder (by wonder I mean "hope desperately") if y'all let the mask slip a little too early. That y'all needed to consolidate a bit more power before you unveiled your true nature.

But I guess we'll see.

dola:

This didn't have to be this way.

Remember when Bernie was leading the Dem nomination. And all of the people who called themselves "moderate" Democrats were like, "Oh. We aren't a party of extremists. Let's vote for the moderate guy instead." And then we got Biden? Remember that.

STOPPING. TRUMP. WAS. THAT. EASY. GOP voters just needed to LITERALLY NOT VOTE FOR HIM. I mean, the Dems were nominating Hillary for God's sake. ANYONE would have beat her AND THE GOP KNEW THAT. Look at their anti-Hillary ads at the time. Her badness wasn't exactly a secret.

So I am not as receptive to the "I'm a conservative, but I've never really fully supported Trump" thing. Because they did. And they did it because they wanted him to be President. And that's why he's here.

We are in a failed state and 45% of the country turned over complete rationality and decency to him. They made an issue out of Obama's suit but ignore obvious corruption.

Trump will either cheat to win in November or refuse to give up power which will create a major crisis in our country. And the irony to me is if he would have handled the pandemic well, he would have won re-election rather easily.

Because a lot of people have no problem with his behavior or some of his actions. His base sees him as some sort of savior who is going to arrest all the pedophiles in Hollywood and the Deep State.

Like if he did NOTHING but say "AMERICA IS THE BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD AND WE ARE GONNA ALL WEAR MASKS TO SUPPORT OUR HERO MILITARY AND LAW ENFORCEMENT" the situation would have not been this dire.

— Yooty Mom x 3 (@yooty) July 17, 2020

I thought you were talking what was the ethical choice. There's a big difference between 'what's ethical' and 'what's political viable'. Two questions with different answers on most issues including this one.


Even under the large assumption that we have enough vaccine ready to go, how long has the flu shot been available? Any COVID vaccine is going to need to go through a process of making it more easily available to the masses with training, different guidelines being enacted/implemented and then revised, etc. I don't see how you go from 0-to-60, no vaccine yet to everyone can get one anytime anywhere. There's a process that's going to need to happen and there's only so much you can shorten it safely no matter how much money/resources are available.

Like if Stephen Miller had been whispering sweet nothings like "you know, sir, if everyone wears masks, they can't see when our people are doing what we need them to do"

SI

On the whole 'Trump's gonna steal the election/refuse to leave/brownshirts are coming' etc. there's a lot of Chicken Little going on. I still think all signs point to Trump losing, and increasingly badly, no matter what he tries to do. Either a sizable portion of the board or myself is going to feel really stupid about what's being said right now when election day (yes, I still think we will have one :confused: ) comes around.

The only way I think we avoid some sort of election challenge/crisis is if he loses badly. If it's close, the more absentee ballots are cast, the longer we wait for a decision and the easier it will be to drag the whole thing out.

I'll freely admit to being Chicken Little in what I posted above and I hate it, but it's only because I wouldn't put anything past Trump.

I guess this should be posted here?

Georgia Massaged Virus Data to Reopen, Then Voided Mask Orders

Maybe the issue is that "Trump" refers to a variety of people.

There's the man himself. Who knows what he is thinking on any given day?

There's some really bad people around him who I think are at least open to the possibility of a permanent police state with them in charge of it. And some of them are trying to make it happen.

There's a lot of folks in the fold who see the ship sinking and are just trying to steal/grab as much as they can before they jump into the lifeboats.

There are people who want him to lose and to fuck things up as much as possible on the way out so that they can start blaming Biden for everything starting in January.

And there's people who want to have a political career after Trump who are keeping their options open and waking up every morning and checking to see what way the wind is blowing.

That second group are the scariest ones. And I don't know if we know just how much juice they have.

Coincidentally I was coming to post a link to an article that says exactly this.

Trump will cling to power. To get him out, Biden will have to win big | Opinion | The Guardian

I'm not sure there's anything I want to watch less than the HBO documentary on Matt Gaetz draining the swamp.

I am not surprised at all. Kemp wanted to open at all costs.

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Look, I've been posting on this board damn near (checks again) 20 years. God, has it been that long? And I'm sure there are some bad predictions here. I hated President Bush but I'm pretty sure I never felt he was going to refuse to leave the White House.

And if, when Corona is all over, we want to all have a beer and laugh about some of my bad predictions (I bet my 2004 Royals ones are pretty awesome) - that'd be awesome! But a lot of us genuinely fear for the future - it's not just histrionics to get attention.

I think it's a lot of "hope for the best, fear for the worst". For many of us, so many unthinkable things have happened in the last 4 years that things we had thought of as beyond that pale previously are possible.

• Child separation and internment camps at our borders? Check!
• Dozens, YES, DOZENS, of documented instances of police shooting at identified free press as they were covering protests. Check!
• A Senate that gave a free pass to foreign interference in elections and supporters who cheered this. Bonus points as the country involved was the sworn mortal enemy of the previous patron saint of said supporters. Check!
• A President siding with a white supremacist rally where one of them killed a person. And, yes, saying "both sides" is telling the white supremacists you support them - they got that message, we got that message, we all got that message. Check!
• A pandemic where our President was using federal troops to seize PPE and give it out as political favors? Check!
• And now, since the military wouldn't do it and military leadership united to tell the President to go pound sand, he's using other federal troops as a paramilitary force to "police" the cities. Check!

This isn't the run of the mill "haha - did the President just say to drink bleach?" or "what a dick move by McConnell on Supreme Court justices" or looting the treasury for his own enrichment. The right has their own grievances like that - Benghazi, Fast and Furious, Solyndra, a private email server, and even a tan suit or flag pin.

You'll have to forgive me if I think those bulleted hings above look more like the actions of someone marching down the road to Nazi town.

SI

He knows he is going to lose badly, that is why he's going to steal the election.

It ain't chicken little.

He's still preventing release of his tax records to NY even though Supreme Court ruled.

He's still getting support from China and Russia to destabilize the election process.

He rails against mail ballots because it's corrupt.

He knows that if he loses the election he will be facing criminal charges.

If the senate is lost, he'll resign and get Pence to pardon him because he'll be impeached.

They are suppressing votes and they are now dispensing a secret police.

Wake the fuck up.

...so if you resist being detained by federal agents who don't identify themselves as law enforcement, I assume that means that even if you hadn't originally done anything to warrant detainment that they can now legitimately charge you with resisting...something? Not arrest, because the DHS has been clear that the people they're detaining haven't been arrested.

Seems kind of like a circular argument.

I don't think there will be brownshirts, police state etc.

But if Trump loses by a small margin, I do think there will be a crisis that Trump will somehow create (e.g. lawsuits on irregularities, refusing to transition, no show on inaugural day etc.). Take it to the bank, it's in his nature to create one(s). But it'll eventually come to naught and we'll move on.

I'm not as sure as you on the "bad loss". The race will tighten in Oct. Plenty of time for Biden/Hunter scandals, Dems to mis-step, overplay a hand, pick a wrong VP, strong positive vaccine/therapeutic news, market records, significant reduction in unemployment rate etc.

Also, the fact that all the "masks are tyranny" guys I know are defending disappearing citizens as a tactic because it's "safer for law enforcement"...suggests to me that their "resisting tyranny" motif is all smoke and mirrors.

I will say that if Biden wins and has a friendly House/Senate, the Dems have a blueprint of a lot of stuff that needs to be fixed ASAP.

Never mind that there's still going to be a pandemic and the shambles of a nightmare economy. But let's get to work on these pair of things.

1) Fix the voting mess in this country. Federal Voting Rights Act of 2021: move Election Day to a weekend or have it declared a national holiday. Make mandatory free Voter ID cards mandatory and outline exactly what you need and make it easy to get one so there can't be squirrelly, stupid state laws to poll tax people. Ex-felons can vote if they've done their time. Using debts as poll taxes need to be outlawed, too. Either do non-partisan redistricting committees or algorithm-drawn redistricting. No more of this state trifecta horrible map crap. Yeah, some of this is going to be struck down, but actually, you know, try to fix it so we're not in this stupid place again in the near future.

2) Criminal justice reform. Yes, it's complicated, but let's at least try to, you know, fix some of this crap. Get police reform going - the Dems already have a bill with a lot of stuff to try. Decriminalize marijuana in law- not just statue or executive action or stuff that can change from administration to administration. And release everyone who had a non-dealer conviction for that in the past. Outlaw private prisons - if the state wants to house people, they need to do it on their own dime. Or, you know, try to fix some of the societal problems that are leading to this. All these little armies of people that we're slushing around from DPS to ICE to Customs - those need to be shrunk and legally codified what they can do. Make it an easy court case to get an injunction for this stupid stuff we're seeing. They've drawn up the blueprint for what will happen the next time there's someone who totalitarian tendencies in the White House - might want to make it harder for them the next time out.

SI

This is 100% how Guiliani used the police in NYC in the 90's. Grab people off the street, take them downtown, see if they have a record, if not, find something else to pin on them, like loitering. Offer a plea bargain, if they don't take it, force them by delaying the trial 4,5,6,7 times whatever it takes.

Ain't nobody got time for that shit. That's how you get a criminal record. How are you supposed to keep coming back over and over again, just to get fucked even harder. They system is fully stacked in favor of law enforcement here. It's a sham.

I would fully support extra judicial matters in this instance and I really hate that I said that, because it's not who I am.

Every single time voters have had a chance since they put him in office in 2016, they have voted strongly against Trump. Almost all of those were when his poll numbers were much higher than they are now. He can try to steal it all he wants, it won't be nearly enough to keep him around.

I just hope Biden's campaign isn't ran horribly like Clinton's was leading up to November.

'Impossibly stupid': White House skewered for strange stunt

“We made it so dishwashers now have a lot more water, and in many places, in most places of the country, water is not a problem ... it's called rain,” he said.

“And old fashioned incandescent lightbulbs, I brought them back ... They’re better and much cheaper.”

The president claimed he will be announcing “many exciting things” over the coming two months. “Things that nobody has even contemplated, thought about, thought possible ... with levels of detail and levels of thought that a lot of people believed very strongly we didn't have in this country.”

Kinda funny/fitting that Winn Dixie won't require masks.

I'd like to see him 'wind back' aviation and space regulations. I really feel like they have hindered progress...and profits. :banghead:

You are more charitable than I am.

They are lying to us. It's not smoke and mirrors. It's a lie.

I don't wish ill will on these idiots. They are Americans, and revenge is a very empty pursuit that ends up hurting us as much as them.

I just want to structure the government so they are incapable of holding power until after my grandchildren pass from the Earth.

Keep in mind that it will be at least a week after election day before we have a clear winner.

Did Trump actually do something...civil?

Trump orders federal flags to fly half-staff to honor John Lewis

We live in a Clown Kingdom folks

Rubio posted a picture of himself and John Lewis, no, I'm sorry, that was a picture of Rubio and Elijah Cummings. Oops.

Cartoon villains aren't this evil.

Trump administration pushing to block new money for testing, tracing, and CDC in upcoming coronavirus relief bill - The Washington Post https://t.co/SK2Vq7SgIP

— Jacob Heilbrunn (@JacobHeilbrunn) July 18, 2020

It's really a shame when we have to point out no brainer gestures of respect regardless of who the president or the deceased is as something good that Trump did. This to me is as routine as checking my mailbox every day.

We have a President that's decided that being President is too hard so he's looking for things to do that are easier than managing a pandemic.

You would think so, but sadly no. As it turns out he issued the order for one day only, and it ended up being for a half a day

Just stunningly evil and shows the whole if we stop testing thing was in no way a joke.

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I told you that some people are rooting for the virus. Maybe Kemp has shares in Gilead.

you win all the elections

I try to be charitable.

I watch a ton of 2A community YouTube content ('cuz I'm that rare rural Democrat who also happens to really dig guns), so I feel like I've got a decent finger on the pulse of that community and its activism.

And I've got to admit that in light of what's going on in Portland right now, some of the comment sections where 2A-boogaloo-prepper sorts are just completely willing to chuck out basic Constitutional provisions as long as it gets protesters/Democrats thrown into gulags, is stunning.

The 2A community is very anti-tyranny and totalitarianism...unless it's the sort of totalitarianism they're in favor of (i.e., where they win, and maybe get to shoot a few of their hippy neighbors in the process.)

I try to tell myself that the sorts of people who fill up the comment sections on YouTube are just a certain sort of people who don't participate in the reality the rest of us are living. They live in parallel dimensions with lots of banjos.

It's smoke and mirrors to some, but not all. For example, there are people I converse with regularly who were actively, consistently concerned with excessive police power long before the recent national flare-up of said concern who are on the 'masks are tyranny' bandwagon.

They may be a minority, but there's still a significant legit libertarian contingent out there who are generally libertarian whether it's a 'liberal' or 'conservative' view to have.

One could even say 3/5ths of a day?

SI

That is the biggest problem I have with this. The same people cheering this on claim to be patriots and would lose their minds if unidentified federal forces stormed into their house and forklifted away their gun safe.

Clever :)

Oregon AG is suing DHS over the Portland arrests/detentions.

For the uninitiated, this comment section is a good example: Federal Agents Disappearing Protesters in Portland, OR (On the Ground Perspective) - YouTube

(For the record, I don't endorse this YouTuber at all. In fact, I think he's kind of an idiot...but he's also the very first 2A "gun-tuber" I've found who has actually posted anything about Portland. Which is sort of stunning in itself.)

Oh you...

dola

I wish this board had a system of liking or disliking posts.

From the Post article:


It really doesn't mean anything unless they publicly dissent. Of course Trump reeeeeealy wants another payment to help his election chances so they could dangle that in front of him.

Ok, honest question. I'm pretty sure there's a pretty decent amount of crossover between "college football is a religion" folks and "COVID-19 is overblown and a scare tactic to bring down the President" folks. With the head of the SEC (the conference not the Securites and Exchange Committee) saying things are "going the wrong way" to have fall sports, if there's no college football this fall, do you think that will be enough to break through to the "38 percent"?

Honestly, I'm not sure I want the answer.

Thre cult comparison is anything but fresh, but I was watching a Jonestown documentary recently and it stuck with me how one of the most published and hyped family of defectors had only left the cult when they witnessed Jim Jones personally beat their child, with over 50 blows. That incident didn't cause anybody else to leave though, and had it not been their child that Jones beat on that day then they would have gladly stuck around and drank the kool-aid with everybody.

...point being that I think that similarly, the great majority of Trump's base has proven that they or someone in their immediate family will have to come to serious harm before they will shift their thinking. Not to be too morbid, but I guess if significant coaches & players started dying or getting crippled due to covid, then that crowd might start to reconsider some things. Unless that happens I think a canceled season would largely just be blamed on the same over-reaction & handful of boogeymen.

It's all about who they blame for it. The conspiracy theories will continue and there's never any shortage of others to blame if you are bound and determined to do so. Some continue to fall away as Trump's support erodes further, but most find a different target.

It won't break a thing. They will blame the head of the SEC, school admins, etc...for caving to the liberal media and snowflakes. It won't help that guys like Kemp will be screaming about how we have to get back to normal. They will yell about healthy 20 year old athletes won't die from it, etc....

or you could just ya know....just let us talk about whatever in one thread.

I don't think that Trump is pro-virus.

I think that he is anti-anti-virus if that makes sense?

It makes sense in my head.

dola:

And the Dems need to play hardball in this bill.

Right now, the GOP will continue putting enough money into the economy to keep it from totally crashing. But if Biden becomes President and the GOP keeps the Senate? Then the spigot stops.

The Dems would be foolish to sign any bill that does not come with automatic stabilizers--the money keeps flowing as long as unemployment, etc. stays in the red.

I mean, the Dems are foolish. So they will. But they shouldn't.

And if the GOP does not play along. OK, then. No bill.

It makes perfect sense. He can't have people like Fauci out there talking about all the negative aspects. He needs to try and prop up the notion that everything is OK.

Damn. Every quote from the Chris Wallace interview is fire.

The brain cancer will just magically disappear at some point.

Unhinged. pic.twitter.com/6H9G5AXRZT

— The Lincoln Project (@ProjectLincoln) July 19, 2020

Roger Stone uses racial slur in interview with Black radio host | TheHill

Roger Stone caught saying the quiet stuff out loud. Then, of course, denied saying it even though there's recorded audio. Fist he claimed it was a poor connection and then said it was the host's studio engineer that said it.

If Hannity wasn't on "vacation", I think he would be mounting a commando-style raid on Fox News HQ to destroy the footage of the interview.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...98&no_nav=true

This is terrible. I can't get over the selfishness of people who refuse to wear masks when business owners do all they can. The guy running in and yelling ADA while ignoring signs? What a terrible person.

Well the headline link on the Fox News site has zero quotes from Wallace so anyone just reading that will think bunker boy was “telling it like it is”

It kind of fits that MAGA worldview, though, that all these other people just get special treatment by existing. Black people get free college. Illegal Immigrants don't pay taxes. Poor people get free health care. Women get believed. Disabled people can do whatever they want. Non-Christians get to practice their religion more freely than Christians.

So they really do think that "the ADA" is just one of those "liberal things" that people invoke when they want to do whatever they want.

It doesn't make it right. But I think that it's more based in simple ignorance than malice. They think that they are persecuted, so they are trying to fight against that. If they were less naive, they'd probably act more reasonable.

Watched the interview, and I really was a little underwhelmed on the gotcha. The biggest thing I got of it is the Fox poll has Biden's lead shrinking.

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The Lincoln Project is lying. Claiming Trump is unhinged assumes he was previously hinged up until now. This is clearly not the case.

A gunman disguised as a FedEx driver shot the husband and killed the son of a Federal judge in NJ.

Jack Nicklaus and his wife, age 80. had the virus in March and April. One had just a sore throat and cough, the other no symptoms.

Judge apparently oversaw an Epstein-related case which is probably going to ramp up the conspiracy theories. But the husband is a criminal defense attorney, so figuring out the true target may be a bit more difficult than you'd think.

Sycophants.

I find the idea of a criminal client attacking their lawyer to be rare. Now probate lawyers being attacked I can totally see...

Relatively speaking, this kind of brazen act is rare. But here's the thing about criminal defense attorneys- very often they used to be prosecutors. And they can have disputes with clients or disagreements just like any attorney.

All of this is to say, it's not likely he's the target, but law enforcement has to rule him out as the target which would not be as much of an issue if her husband ran the local grocery store.

And here we go...

Meadows says the Trump administration is readying a new executive order to expand the federal takeover of cities based on alleged lawlessness: "Attorney General Barr is weighing in on that with Secretary Wolf, and you'll see something rolled out on that this week." https://t.co/OltkCHVTP1

— Dan Friedman (@dfriedman33) July 19, 2020

Just remember - those of us who think this is patently nuts - we're the crazy ones.

SI

So let me get this straight... I'm a conservative, always supported states rights. So what I take from the current GOP is that states aren't trusted to police themselves, but they should be expected to handle a global pandemic with minimal federal assistance and active resistance/inconsistent federal guidance. Got it.

I know you already know the answer but it's never been about state's rights or local control. Just like how you have numbnuts like Kemp or Abbott overruling smaller city units when they try to, you know, do something about the pandemic.

Also, this weekend, I've been thinking a lot about this article: The Cruelty Is the Point

SI

Despite being pretty far to the left, I do read opinions from the right to get some perspective and when I run into what I feel are logic gaps my wife does a good job of filling in the gaps since she was raised very republican in Texas.

I still can't wrap my head around how masks are tyranny and a dangerous loss of rights but federal troops that refuse to say who they are driving around in unmarked rental vehicles taking people off the streets for detainment is ok.

I would love to hear someone make this case because it seems genuinely bizarre to me.

I don't think that's consistent at all, but it's always easier to see logic gaps when it's the 'other side' making them.

I actually think the thought process is pretty simple.

It's okay to take those "deadbeats" off the street because they have spent 30-40 days causing disruption and so law and order needs to be restored.

The reason why the LEOs-and-like refuse to say who they are is because they don't want reprisals for them & family. They use rental vehicles because they want to monitor the situation and don't want to alert the deadbeats. I assume when they are taken off the streets that they have legal representation per the laws and not hauled away to a black site to be beaten.

I'm okay with the tactics of not identifying and use of unmarked vehicles, makes sense to me.

The real question to me is should they have been deployed to remove the protesters. I'm not sure as to what has been said, done, negotiated, timeline of events etc.

If you don't want to be identifiable, don't be a public servant. That just goes with the territory of being an elected official, police officer, fireperson, whatever. Secret police are incompatible with a free society. Having undercover operations be narrowly restricted is a good thing.

From what I've read, its not required and/or depends on the situation. See below link.

Page not found - Lawfare.

I'm all for changing the laws if that's what's needed. Let's see how much support (Dem and GOP) it gets.

There is an argument that they should be identifying themselves before seizing people under the 4th Amendment - though the 4th Amendment has been gutted so much over the last 50+ years.

Trump 2020 - It's worse than Afghanistan - By Far!

Trump 2020: This Is Worse Than Afghanistan, By Far. This Is Worse Than Anything Anyone's Ever Seen. pic.twitter.com/Izf9DGCO2C

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) July 20, 2020