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Qwikshot 07-17-2020 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3291870)
The WH is writing copy for The Lincoln Project again.



Is the thought here that he is going to steal the election and this isn't a matter anymore, or has he accepted that he's not going to win and he's just trying to grab what he can to maximize his greed and corruption before getting pardoned by Pence or blatantly pardoning himself.

Qwikshot 07-17-2020 09:24 PM

As if I was surprised:

Biden warns of Russian election interference after receiving intelligence briefings | TheHill

RainMaker 07-17-2020 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwikshot (Post 3291887)
Is the thought here that he is going to steal the election and this isn't a matter anymore, or has he accepted that he's not going to win and he's just trying to grab what he can to maximize his greed and corruption before getting pardoned by Pence or blatantly pardoning himself.


I just think he doesn't care about issues unless they are about him. Pandemic stuff is work and he just wants to watch TV and tweet.

PilotMan 07-17-2020 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3291897)
I just think he doesn't care about issues unless they are about him. Pandemic stuff is work and he just wants to watch TV and tweet.


Yep, it's not about him, and when it is, it's bad, and he can't say things that make it better, so it's better to ignore it and move on.

Brian Swartz 07-17-2020 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64
The question now is ... within the US, should the vaccine should go to healthcare workers (makes sense) and then POC even before people with underlying conditions, older people etc. I think an argument could be made to vaccinate the younger generation first even.

(Therapeutics, treatment should go to the ones that need it most e.g. already in hospital, ventilators etc.)

Hopefully once a vaccine is found, the ramp up time will be 1-2 months before everyone in the US (or UK or China) gets it and the gap will be short.


I think it should go to people who need it the most first, regardless of their level of melanin. Underlying conditions, elderly, health workers, essential workers, etc. Where I probably disagree with most is that I think we need to be spreading it internationally, allies or otherwhise, far before we worry about all Americans getting it.

I also think getting it to everyone in the country takes a lot longer than a month or two. Even if we have enough of the vaccine, I don't see how we safely administer it to that many people that quickly; the logistics just aren't there.

thesloppy 07-17-2020 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesloppy (Post 3291803)
I'm considering going down to ground zero at the justice center to see how things are popping off tonight. Or I might go to bed at 7.


I ate gummy bears until my stomach hurt instead. That's the real struggle.

Edward64 07-17-2020 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz (Post 3291900)
I think it should go to people who need it the most first, regardless of their level of melanin. Underlying conditions, elderly, health workers, essential workers, etc. Where I probably disagree with most is that I think we need to be spreading it internationally, allies or otherwhise, far before we worry about all Americans getting it.


Regardless of Biden or Trump, I don't see us giving the vaccine internationally "first" before all Americans getting it (or at least not publicly). The best is to give the formula/process to everyone (but not the actual vaccine) so they can mass produce themselves. It would be political suicide otherwise.

Quote:

I also think getting it to everyone in the country takes a lot longer than a month or two. Even if we have enough of the vaccine, I don't see how we safely administer it to that many people that quickly; the logistics just aren't there.

We now go to CVS, Walgreens etc. to get the flu shot. It wasn't that long ago when we had to go to doctor's office for that, I think around 2008+ when that changed. Nurses can give shots. I can picture a mass mobilization of healthcare professionals to get it done (well assuming its a Biden administration).

So IMO I worry more about manufacturing and distribution moreso than the actual giving of the shot.

AlexB 07-18-2020 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesloppy (Post 3291909)
I ate gummy bears until my stomach hurt instead. That's the real struggle.


Sitting in the bathroom tomorrow will be the real struggle

Edward64 07-18-2020 07:09 AM

I like what Bernie is proposing and assume he had strategized with Biden and they are coordinated.

Devil is in the details ... I've seen people wearing masks in their cars, that's a little too much for me. But I've seen people walked into restaurants or Krogers unmasked and think they are selfish.

We'll see if it gets to a vote. Interesting to see how votes fall in the legislation.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/17/opini...itt/index.html
Quote:

That's why we are urgently calling for a simple, common-sense, practical and inexpensive way to protect Americans during the coronavirus pandemic: Masks for All. Our goal must be to make high-quality masks available on an equitable basis to every single person in this country at no cost. Next week, one of us will introduce legislation to do just that.

Ksyrup 07-18-2020 07:51 AM

On the issue of how to make sense of Trump's actions/inactions, I have an overwhelming sense of foreboding for November. He gambled on Covid and lost, big time. George Floyd/BLM gave him an opportunity to solidify his followers, not so much for election purposes but to run interference for what might come in November. He's been pounding the fraudulent election stuff for months, and mail-in/absentee ballots are only going to be more numerous across the country thanks to his mishandling of the virus. Now look what's happening in Portland - it's like a trial balloon for how to handle dissenters.

I hate conspiracy theories, but the truth is, Trump has been getting away with lying and corruption in broad daylight for 4 years and is now more emboldened than ever. I wouldn't put it past him to try it once more, on a grander scale, to hold off the inevitable. He may already be at the point of not wanting to waste time, money and energy on winning over Americans because he knows it's a lost cause and likely because he's satisfied with the 35-40% who will follow him off a cliff. That leaves one avenue to try to stay in power, if for no reason other than to hold off any potential criminal investigations.

Do I truly believe this could happen? Not really, but he's gotten away with a laundry list of things that would have seemed crazy 4 years ago. Trump is exactly the guy to try it and I can't make any sense of his endgame other than to think of the worst case scenario given where we are and how he's responding to it all.

miked 07-18-2020 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3291910)
Regardless of Biden or Trump, I don't see us giving the vaccine internationally "first" before all Americans getting it (or at least not publicly). The best is to give the formula/process to everyone (but not the actual vaccine) so they can mass produce themselves. It would be political suicide otherwise.



We now go to CVS, Walgreens etc. to get the flu shot. It wasn't that long ago when we had to go to doctor's office for that, I think around 2008+ when that changed. Nurses can give shots. I can picture a mass mobilization of healthcare professionals to get it done (well assuming its a Biden administration).

So IMO I worry more about manufacturing and distribution moreso than the actual giving of the shot.


We will have plenty to give internationally. A recent poll suggested nearly 50% of republicans would not take the vaccine. Grassley will probably write a law that will allow insurance and drug companies to have the government subsidize production while they sell it for bank overseas.

GrantDawg 07-18-2020 10:29 AM

Sell it for bank overseas? Heck, I am hearing $3,000 a dose here

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

sterlingice 07-18-2020 11:05 AM

Well, if you were fine thinking unmarked federal troops disappearing people in Portland was an isolated thing

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attor...eration-legend

Quote:

As part of Operation Legend, Attorney General Barr directed federal agents from the FBI, U.S. Marshal Service, DEA and ATF to surge resources to Kansas City in the coming weeks to help state and local officials fight the surge of violent crime. They will be working alongside state and local law enforcement agencies. Department of Justice assets will include over 100 FBI agents, U.S. Marshals, DEA agents, and ATF agents.



SI

sterlingice 07-18-2020 11:13 AM

Ken Cuccinelli confirms to NPR that they are going to be rolling this out across the country

DHS Official On Reports Of Federal Officers Detaining Protesters In Portland, Ore. : NPR

Quote:

But, you know, this is a posture we intend to continue not just in Portland but in any of the facilities that we’re responsible for around the country

SI

sterlingice 07-18-2020 11:13 AM

So, yeah, the brownshirts are coming.

SI

Lathum 07-18-2020 11:18 AM

Quote:

And if we have a question about somebody's identity - like the first example I noted to you - after questioning determine it isn't someone of interest, then they get released.

nothing scary about that...dangerously close to asking for their papers.

JPhillips 07-18-2020 11:18 AM

They are practically begging for one of these folks to get killed so they can use it in the campaign.

albionmoonlight 07-18-2020 11:22 AM

Philando Castile showed me that the NRA was lying to my face about caring about guns.

Portland (and coming soon to a city near you) shows me that it was lying to my face about caring about tyrrany.

So, bad on me. I was stupid and I was naive, and I believed y'all. I'm sure great belly laughs were had over idiots like me:

"Can you believe these guys?! I mean, they still think we aren't a thinly veiled front for a white supremacist police state? I mean, that's some wear-your-pants-on-your-head stupid right there."

So, I am ashamed to admit it. But I was that stupid. I believed that this was about reducing government regulations. About tax rates. About freedom and personal expression.

I mean, I get it now. And I still wonder (by wonder I mean "hope desperately") if y'all let the mask slip a little too early. That y'all needed to consolidate a bit more power before you unveiled your true nature.

But I guess we'll see.

albionmoonlight 07-18-2020 11:36 AM

dola:

This didn't have to be this way.

Remember when Bernie was leading the Dem nomination. And all of the people who called themselves "moderate" Democrats were like, "Oh. We aren't a party of extremists. Let's vote for the moderate guy instead." And then we got Biden? Remember that.

STOPPING. TRUMP. WAS. THAT. EASY. GOP voters just needed to LITERALLY NOT VOTE FOR HIM. I mean, the Dems were nominating Hillary for God's sake. ANYONE would have beat her AND THE GOP KNEW THAT. Look at their anti-Hillary ads at the time. Her badness wasn't exactly a secret.

So I am not as receptive to the "I'm a conservative, but I've never really fully supported Trump" thing. Because they did. And they did it because they wanted him to be President. And that's why he's here.

Noop 07-18-2020 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3291920)
On the issue of how to make sense of Trump's actions/inactions, I have an overwhelming sense of foreboding for November. He gambled on Covid and lost, big time. George Floyd/BLM gave him an opportunity to solidify his followers, not so much for election purposes but to run interference for what might come in November. He's been pounding the fraudulent election stuff for months, and mail-in/absentee ballots are only going to be more numerous across the country thanks to his mishandling of the virus. Now look what's happening in Portland - it's like a trial balloon for how to handle dissenters.

I hate conspiracy theories, but the truth is, Trump has been getting away with lying and corruption in broad daylight for 4 years and is now more emboldened than ever. I wouldn't put it past him to try it once more, on a grander scale, to hold off the inevitable. He may already be at the point of not wanting to waste time, money and energy on winning over Americans because he knows it's a lost cause and likely because he's satisfied with the 35-40% who will follow him off a cliff. That leaves one avenue to try to stay in power, if for no reason other than to hold off any potential criminal investigations.

Do I truly believe this could happen? Not really, but he's gotten away with a laundry list of things that would have seemed crazy 4 years ago. Trump is exactly the guy to try it and I can't make any sense of his endgame other than to think of the worst case scenario given where we are and how he's responding to it all.


We are in a failed state and 45% of the country turned over complete rationality and decency to him. They made an issue out of Obama's suit but ignore obvious corruption.

Trump will either cheat to win in November or refuse to give up power which will create a major crisis in our country. And the irony to me is if he would have handled the pandemic well, he would have won re-election rather easily.

Because a lot of people have no problem with his behavior or some of his actions. His base sees him as some sort of savior who is going to arrest all the pedophiles in Hollywood and the Deep State.

albionmoonlight 07-18-2020 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noop (Post 3291949)
if he would have handled the pandemic well, he would have won re-election rather easily.



Brian Swartz 07-18-2020 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64
It would be political suicide otherwise.


I thought you were talking what was the ethical choice. There's a big difference between 'what's ethical' and 'what's political viable'. Two questions with different answers on most issues including this one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64
We now go to CVS, Walgreens etc. to get the flu shot. It wasn't that long ago when we had to go to doctor's office for that, I think around 2008+ when that changed.


Even under the large assumption that we have enough vaccine ready to go, how long has the flu shot been available? Any COVID vaccine is going to need to go through a process of making it more easily available to the masses with training, different guidelines being enacted/implemented and then revised, etc. I don't see how you go from 0-to-60, no vaccine yet to everyone can get one anytime anywhere. There's a process that's going to need to happen and there's only so much you can shorten it safely no matter how much money/resources are available.

sterlingice 07-18-2020 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3291950)
Like if he did NOTHING but say "AMERICA IS THE BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD AND WE ARE GONNA ALL WEAR MASKS TO SUPPORT OUR HERO MILITARY AND LAW ENFORCEMENT" the situation would have not been this dire.
— Yooty Mom x 3 (@yooty) July 17, 2020


Like if Stephen Miller had been whispering sweet nothings like "you know, sir, if everyone wears masks, they can't see when our people are doing what we need them to do"

SI

Brian Swartz 07-18-2020 12:22 PM

On the whole 'Trump's gonna steal the election/refuse to leave/brownshirts are coming' etc. there's a lot of Chicken Little going on. I still think all signs point to Trump losing, and increasingly badly, no matter what he tries to do. Either a sizable portion of the board or myself is going to feel really stupid about what's being said right now when election day (yes, I still think we will have one :confused: ) comes around.

Ksyrup 07-18-2020 12:28 PM

The only way I think we avoid some sort of election challenge/crisis is if he loses badly. If it's close, the more absentee ballots are cast, the longer we wait for a decision and the easier it will be to drag the whole thing out.

I'll freely admit to being Chicken Little in what I posted above and I hate it, but it's only because I wouldn't put anything past Trump.

Ksyrup 07-18-2020 12:32 PM

I guess this should be posted here?

Georgia Massaged Virus Data to Reopen, Then Voided Mask Orders


Quote:

But the same week Kemp ordered the reopening, his administration began presenting data in a way that made the state appear healthier than it was, said Thomas Tsai, a professor at Harvard University’s T.H. Chan School of Public Health.

The technique involved backdating new cases to the time of first symptoms or taking a test, instead of reporting them as they were reported to the state, like Georgia had previously done -- and like most states do.

The effect -- as states were being told to predicate their reopenings on two weeks of declining case numbers -- was to artificially make Georgia’s trends look better. The state began adding new cases to past dates on its trend line, making current numbers both too low and incomplete, Tsai said.

“What’s deceptive is that they shave off the most recent two weeks,” he said. “If you look at the most recent two weeks, it’s always very low. It always looks artificially like a downward trend.”


albionmoonlight 07-18-2020 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz (Post 3291955)
On the whole 'Trump's gonna steal the election/refuse to leave/brownshirts are coming' etc. there's a lot of Chicken Little going on. I still think all signs point to Trump losing, and increasingly badly, no matter what he tries to do. Either a sizable portion of the board or myself is going to feel really stupid about what's being said right now when election day (yes, I still think we will have one :confused: ) comes around.


Maybe the issue is that "Trump" refers to a variety of people.

There's the man himself. Who knows what he is thinking on any given day?

There's some really bad people around him who I think are at least open to the possibility of a permanent police state with them in charge of it. And some of them are trying to make it happen.

There's a lot of folks in the fold who see the ship sinking and are just trying to steal/grab as much as they can before they jump into the lifeboats.

There are people who want him to lose and to fuck things up as much as possible on the way out so that they can start blaming Biden for everything starting in January.

And there's people who want to have a political career after Trump who are keeping their options open and waking up every morning and checking to see what way the wind is blowing.

That second group are the scariest ones. And I don't know if we know just how much juice they have.

AlexB 07-18-2020 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3291956)
The only way I think we avoid some sort of election challenge/crisis is if he loses badly. If it's close, the more absentee ballots are cast, the longer we wait for a decision and the easier it will be to drag the whole thing out.

I'll freely admit to being Chicken Little in what I posted above and I hate it, but it's only because I wouldn't put anything past Trump.


Coincidentally I was coming to post a link to an article that says exactly this.

Trump will cling to power. To get him out, Biden will have to win big | Opinion | The Guardian

Atocep 07-18-2020 01:10 PM

I'm not sure there's anything I want to watch less than the HBO documentary on Matt Gaetz draining the swamp.

ISiddiqui 07-18-2020 01:18 PM

I am not surprised at all. Kemp wanted to open at all costs.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

sterlingice 07-18-2020 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz (Post 3291955)
On the whole 'Trump's gonna steal the election/refuse to leave/brownshirts are coming' etc. there's a lot of Chicken Little going on. I still think all signs point to Trump losing, and increasingly badly, no matter what he tries to do. Either a sizable portion of the board or myself is going to feel really stupid about what's being said right now when election day (yes, I still think we will have one :confused: ) comes around.


Look, I've been posting on this board damn near (checks again) 20 years. God, has it been that long? And I'm sure there are some bad predictions here. I hated President Bush but I'm pretty sure I never felt he was going to refuse to leave the White House.

And if, when Corona is all over, we want to all have a beer and laugh about some of my bad predictions (I bet my 2004 Royals ones are pretty awesome) - that'd be awesome! But a lot of us genuinely fear for the future - it's not just histrionics to get attention.

I think it's a lot of "hope for the best, fear for the worst". For many of us, so many unthinkable things have happened in the last 4 years that things we had thought of as beyond that pale previously are possible.
  • Child separation and internment camps at our borders? Check!
  • Dozens, YES, DOZENS, of documented instances of police shooting at identified free press as they were covering protests. Check!
  • A Senate that gave a free pass to foreign interference in elections and supporters who cheered this. Bonus points as the country involved was the sworn mortal enemy of the previous patron saint of said supporters. Check!
  • A President siding with a white supremacist rally where one of them killed a person. And, yes, saying "both sides" is telling the white supremacists you support them - they got that message, we got that message, we all got that message. Check!
  • A pandemic where our President was using federal troops to seize PPE and give it out as political favors? Check!
  • And now, since the military wouldn't do it and military leadership united to tell the President to go pound sand, he's using other federal troops as a paramilitary force to "police" the cities. Check!
This isn't the run of the mill "haha - did the President just say to drink bleach?" or "what a dick move by McConnell on Supreme Court justices" or looting the treasury for his own enrichment. The right has their own grievances like that - Benghazi, Fast and Furious, Solyndra, a private email server, and even a tan suit or flag pin.

You'll have to forgive me if I think those bulleted hings above look more like the actions of someone marching down the road to Nazi town.

SI

Qwikshot 07-18-2020 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz (Post 3291955)
On the whole 'Trump's gonna steal the election/refuse to leave/brownshirts are coming' etc. there's a lot of Chicken Little going on. I still think all signs point to Trump losing, and increasingly badly, no matter what he tries to do. Either a sizable portion of the board or myself is going to feel really stupid about what's being said right now when election day (yes, I still think we will have one :confused: ) comes around.


He knows he is going to lose badly, that is why he's going to steal the election.

It ain't chicken little.

He's still preventing release of his tax records to NY even though Supreme Court ruled.

He's still getting support from China and Russia to destabilize the election process.

He rails against mail ballots because it's corrupt.

He knows that if he loses the election he will be facing criminal charges.

If the senate is lost, he'll resign and get Pence to pardon him because he'll be impeached.

They are suppressing votes and they are now dispensing a secret police.

Wake the fuck up.

Drake 07-18-2020 01:38 PM

...so if you resist being detained by federal agents who don't identify themselves as law enforcement, I assume that means that even if you hadn't originally done anything to warrant detainment that they can now legitimately charge you with resisting...something? Not arrest, because the DHS has been clear that the people they're detaining haven't been arrested.

Seems kind of like a circular argument.

Edward64 07-18-2020 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz (Post 3291955)
On the whole 'Trump's gonna steal the election/refuse to leave/brownshirts are coming' etc. there's a lot of Chicken Little going on. I still think all signs point to Trump losing, and increasingly badly, no matter what he tries to do. Either a sizable portion of the board or myself is going to feel really stupid about what's being said right now when election day (yes, I still think we will have one :confused: ) comes around.


I don't think there will be brownshirts, police state etc.

But if Trump loses by a small margin, I do think there will be a crisis that Trump will somehow create (e.g. lawsuits on irregularities, refusing to transition, no show on inaugural day etc.). Take it to the bank, it's in his nature to create one(s). But it'll eventually come to naught and we'll move on.

I'm not as sure as you on the "bad loss". The race will tighten in Oct. Plenty of time for Biden/Hunter scandals, Dems to mis-step, overplay a hand, pick a wrong VP, strong positive vaccine/therapeutic news, market records, significant reduction in unemployment rate etc.

Drake 07-18-2020 01:43 PM

Also, the fact that all the "masks are tyranny" guys I know are defending disappearing citizens as a tactic because it's "safer for law enforcement"...suggests to me that their "resisting tyranny" motif is all smoke and mirrors.

sterlingice 07-18-2020 01:51 PM

I will say that if Biden wins and has a friendly House/Senate, the Dems have a blueprint of a lot of stuff that needs to be fixed ASAP.

Never mind that there's still going to be a pandemic and the shambles of a nightmare economy. But let's get to work on these pair of things.

1) Fix the voting mess in this country. Federal Voting Rights Act of 2021: move Election Day to a weekend or have it declared a national holiday. Make mandatory free Voter ID cards mandatory and outline exactly what you need and make it easy to get one so there can't be squirrelly, stupid state laws to poll tax people. Ex-felons can vote if they've done their time. Using debts as poll taxes need to be outlawed, too. Either do non-partisan redistricting committees or algorithm-drawn redistricting. No more of this state trifecta horrible map crap. Yeah, some of this is going to be struck down, but actually, you know, try to fix it so we're not in this stupid place again in the near future.

2) Criminal justice reform. Yes, it's complicated, but let's at least try to, you know, fix some of this crap. Get police reform going - the Dems already have a bill with a lot of stuff to try. Decriminalize marijuana in law- not just statue or executive action or stuff that can change from administration to administration. And release everyone who had a non-dealer conviction for that in the past. Outlaw private prisons - if the state wants to house people, they need to do it on their own dime. Or, you know, try to fix some of the societal problems that are leading to this. All these little armies of people that we're slushing around from DPS to ICE to Customs - those need to be shrunk and legally codified what they can do. Make it an easy court case to get an injunction for this stupid stuff we're seeing. They've drawn up the blueprint for what will happen the next time there's someone who totalitarian tendencies in the White House - might want to make it harder for them the next time out.

SI

PilotMan 07-18-2020 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake (Post 3291973)
...so if you resist being detained by federal agents who don't identify themselves as law enforcement, I assume that means that even if you hadn't originally done anything to warrant detainment that they can now legitimately charge you with resisting...something? Not arrest, because the DHS has been clear that the people they're detaining haven't been arrested.

Seems kind of like a circular argument.


This is 100% how Guiliani used the police in NYC in the 90's. Grab people off the street, take them downtown, see if they have a record, if not, find something else to pin on them, like loitering. Offer a plea bargain, if they don't take it, force them by delaying the trial 4,5,6,7 times whatever it takes.

Ain't nobody got time for that shit. That's how you get a criminal record. How are you supposed to keep coming back over and over again, just to get fucked even harder. They system is fully stacked in favor of law enforcement here. It's a sham.

PilotMan 07-18-2020 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwikshot (Post 3291972)

If the senate is lost, he'll resign and get Pence to pardon him because he'll be impeached.



I would fully support extra judicial matters in this instance and I really hate that I said that, because it's not who I am.

Brian Swartz 07-18-2020 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QwikShot
Wake the fuck up.


Every single time voters have had a chance since they put him in office in 2016, they have voted strongly against Trump. Almost all of those were when his poll numbers were much higher than they are now. He can try to steal it all he wants, it won't be nearly enough to keep him around.

wustin 07-18-2020 04:03 PM

I just hope Biden's campaign isn't ran horribly like Clinton's was leading up to November.

thesloppy 07-18-2020 05:44 PM

'Impossibly stupid': White House skewered for strange stunt

“We made it so dishwashers now have a lot more water, and in many places, in most places of the country, water is not a problem ... it's called rain,” he said.

“And old fashioned incandescent lightbulbs, I brought them back ... They’re better and much cheaper.”

The president claimed he will be announcing “many exciting things” over the coming two months. “Things that nobody has even contemplated, thought about, thought possible ... with levels of detail and levels of thought that a lot of people believed very strongly we didn't have in this country.”

Ksyrup 07-18-2020 05:45 PM

Kinda funny/fitting that Winn Dixie won't require masks.

PilotMan 07-18-2020 05:48 PM

I'd like to see him 'wind back' aviation and space regulations. I really feel like they have hindered progress...and profits. :banghead:

albionmoonlight 07-18-2020 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake (Post 3291975)
suggests to me that their "resisting tyranny" motif is all smoke and mirrors.


You are more charitable than I am.

They are lying to us. It's not smoke and mirrors. It's a lie.

I don't wish ill will on these idiots. They are Americans, and revenge is a very empty pursuit that ends up hurting us as much as them.

I just want to structure the government so they are incapable of holding power until after my grandchildren pass from the Earth.

JPhillips 07-18-2020 06:28 PM

Keep in mind that it will be at least a week after election day before we have a clear winner.

NobodyHere 07-18-2020 06:35 PM

Did Trump actually do something...civil?

Trump orders federal flags to fly half-staff to honor John Lewis

BYU 14 07-18-2020 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesloppy (Post 3291991)
'Impossibly stupid': White House skewered for strange stunt

“We made it so dishwashers now have a lot more water, and in many places, in most places of the country, water is not a problem ... it's called rain,” he said.

“And old fashioned incandescent lightbulbs, I brought them back ... They’re better and much cheaper.”

The president claimed he will be announcing “many exciting things” over the coming two months. “Things that nobody has even contemplated, thought about, thought possible ... with levels of detail and levels of thought that a lot of people believed very strongly we didn't have in this country.”


We live in a Clown Kingdom folks

JPhillips 07-18-2020 06:42 PM

Rubio posted a picture of himself and John Lewis, no, I'm sorry, that was a picture of Rubio and Elijah Cummings. Oops.

JPhillips 07-18-2020 06:45 PM

Cartoon villains aren't this evil.


BYU 14 07-18-2020 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3291999)


It's really a shame when we have to point out no brainer gestures of respect regardless of who the president or the deceased is as something good that Trump did. This to me is as routine as checking my mailbox every day.

Atocep 07-18-2020 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BYU 14 (Post 3292001)
We live in a Clown Kingdom folks


We have a President that's decided that being President is too hard so he's looking for things to do that are easier than managing a pandemic.

Thomkal 07-18-2020 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3291999)


You would think so, but sadly no. As it turns out he issued the order for one day only, and it ended up being for a half a day

ISiddiqui 07-18-2020 07:40 PM

Just stunningly evil and shows the whole if we stop testing thing was in no way a joke.

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RainMaker 07-18-2020 07:43 PM

I told you that some people are rooting for the virus. Maybe Kemp has shares in Gilead.

Comey 07-18-2020 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 3291795)
Let's build a wall around the virus and make the virus pay for it!

Am I doing this right?


you win all the elections

Drake 07-18-2020 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3291995)
You are more charitable than I am.

They are lying to us. It's not smoke and mirrors. It's a lie.

I don't wish ill will on these idiots. They are Americans, and revenge is a very empty pursuit that ends up hurting us as much as them.

I just want to structure the government so they are incapable of holding power until after my grandchildren pass from the Earth.


I try to be charitable.

I watch a ton of 2A community YouTube content ('cuz I'm that rare rural Democrat who also happens to really dig guns), so I feel like I've got a decent finger on the pulse of that community and its activism.

And I've got to admit that in light of what's going on in Portland right now, some of the comment sections where 2A-boogaloo-prepper sorts are just completely willing to chuck out basic Constitutional provisions as long as it gets protesters/Democrats thrown into gulags, is stunning.

The 2A community is very anti-tyranny and totalitarianism...unless it's the sort of totalitarianism they're in favor of (i.e., where they win, and maybe get to shoot a few of their hippy neighbors in the process.)

I try to tell myself that the sorts of people who fill up the comment sections on YouTube are just a certain sort of people who don't participate in the reality the rest of us are living. They live in parallel dimensions with lots of banjos.

Brian Swartz 07-18-2020 08:25 PM

It's smoke and mirrors to some, but not all. For example, there are people I converse with regularly who were actively, consistently concerned with excessive police power long before the recent national flare-up of said concern who are on the 'masks are tyranny' bandwagon.

They may be a minority, but there's still a significant legit libertarian contingent out there who are generally libertarian whether it's a 'liberal' or 'conservative' view to have.

sterlingice 07-18-2020 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3292007)
You would think so, but sadly no. As it turns out he issued the order for one day only, and it ended up being for a half a day


One could even say 3/5ths of a day?

SI

Lathum 07-18-2020 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake (Post 3292017)

And I've got to admit that in light of what's going on in Portland right now, some of the comment sections where 2A-boogaloo-prepper sorts are just completely willing to chuck out basic Constitutional provisions as long as it gets protesters/Democrats thrown into gulags, is stunning.



.


That is the biggest problem I have with this. The same people cheering this on claim to be patriots and would lose their minds if unidentified federal forces stormed into their house and forklifted away their gun safe.

Thomkal 07-18-2020 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 3292022)
One could even say 3/5ths of a day?

SI


Clever :)

Ksyrup 07-18-2020 08:41 PM

Oregon AG is suing DHS over the Portland arrests/detentions.

Drake 07-18-2020 08:41 PM

For the uninitiated, this comment section is a good example: Federal Agents Disappearing Protesters in Portland, OR (On the Ground Perspective) - YouTube

(For the record, I don't endorse this YouTuber at all. In fact, I think he's kind of an idiot...but he's also the very first 2A "gun-tuber" I've found who has actually posted anything about Portland. Which is sort of stunning in itself.)

NobodyHere 07-18-2020 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 3292022)
One could even say 3/5ths of a day?

SI


Oh you...

NobodyHere 07-18-2020 09:17 PM

dola

I wish this board had a system of liking or disliking posts.

ISiddiqui 07-18-2020 10:12 PM

From the Post article:

Quote:

The administration’s posture has angered some GOP senators, the officials said, and some lawmakers are trying to push back and ensure that the money stays in the bill. The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity to reveal confidential deliberations, cautioned that the talks were fluid and the numbers were in flux.

It really doesn't mean anything unless they publicly dissent. Of course Trump reeeeeealy wants another payment to help his election chances so they could dangle that in front of him.

SirFozzie 07-19-2020 05:14 AM

Ok, honest question. I'm pretty sure there's a pretty decent amount of crossover between "college football is a religion" folks and "COVID-19 is overblown and a scare tactic to bring down the President" folks. With the head of the SEC (the conference not the Securites and Exchange Committee) saying things are "going the wrong way" to have fall sports, if there's no college football this fall, do you think that will be enough to break through to the "38 percent"?

Honestly, I'm not sure I want the answer.

thesloppy 07-19-2020 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie (Post 3292042)
Ok, honest question. I'm pretty sure there's a pretty decent amount of crossover between "college football is a religion" folks and "COVID-19 is overblown and a scare tactic to bring down the President" folks. With the head of the SEC (the conference not the Securites and Exchange Committee) saying things are "going the wrong way" to have fall sports, if there's no college football this fall, do you think that will be enough to break through to the "38 percent"?

Honestly, I'm not sure I want the answer.


Thre cult comparison is anything but fresh, but I was watching a Jonestown documentary recently and it stuck with me how one of the most published and hyped family of defectors had only left the cult when they witnessed Jim Jones personally beat their child, with over 50 blows. That incident didn't cause anybody else to leave though, and had it not been their child that Jones beat on that day then they would have gladly stuck around and drank the kool-aid with everybody.

...point being that I think that similarly, the great majority of Trump's base has proven that they or someone in their immediate family will have to come to serious harm before they will shift their thinking. Not to be too morbid, but I guess if significant coaches & players started dying or getting crippled due to covid, then that crowd might start to reconsider some things. Unless that happens I think a canceled season would largely just be blamed on the same over-reaction & handful of boogeymen.

Brian Swartz 07-19-2020 06:21 AM

It's all about who they blame for it. The conspiracy theories will continue and there's never any shortage of others to blame if you are bound and determined to do so. Some continue to fall away as Trump's support erodes further, but most find a different target.

Lathum 07-19-2020 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie (Post 3292042)
Ok, honest question. I'm pretty sure there's a pretty decent amount of crossover between "college football is a religion" folks and "COVID-19 is overblown and a scare tactic to bring down the President" folks. With the head of the SEC (the conference not the Securites and Exchange Committee) saying things are "going the wrong way" to have fall sports, if there's no college football this fall, do you think that will be enough to break through to the "38 percent"?

Honestly, I'm not sure I want the answer.


It won't break a thing. They will blame the head of the SEC, school admins, etc...for caving to the liberal media and snowflakes. It won't help that guys like Kemp will be screaming about how we have to get back to normal. They will yell about healthy 20 year old athletes won't die from it, etc....

CrimsonFox 07-19-2020 07:25 AM

or you could just ya know....just let us talk about whatever in one thread.

albionmoonlight 07-19-2020 07:33 AM

I don't think that Trump is pro-virus.

I think that he is anti-anti-virus if that makes sense?

It makes sense in my head.

albionmoonlight 07-19-2020 07:36 AM

dola:

And the Dems need to play hardball in this bill.

Right now, the GOP will continue putting enough money into the economy to keep it from totally crashing. But if Biden becomes President and the GOP keeps the Senate? Then the spigot stops.

The Dems would be foolish to sign any bill that does not come with automatic stabilizers--the money keeps flowing as long as unemployment, etc. stays in the red.

I mean, the Dems are foolish. So they will. But they shouldn't.

And if the GOP does not play along. OK, then. No bill.

Lathum 07-19-2020 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3292049)
I don't think that Trump is pro-virus.

I think that he is anti-anti-virus if that makes sense?

It makes sense in my head.


It makes perfect sense. He can't have people like Fauci out there talking about all the negative aspects. He needs to try and prop up the notion that everything is OK.

JPhillips 07-19-2020 08:35 AM

Damn. Every quote from the Chris Wallace interview is fire.

Quote:

Wallace told Trump that he also took the cognitive test and it's not very hard.

Trump sharply objected: "... the first few questions are easy, but I'll bet you couldn't even answer the last five questions. I'll bet you couldn't, they get very hard, the last five questions."

Quote:

Chris Wallace pressed Trump on how he wrongly claimed the virus would just disappear.

Trump: "I'll be right eventually. I will be right eventually."

Quote:

Trump on the Confederate flag: "When people – when people proudly have their Confederate flags, they’re not talking about racism. They love their flag, it represents the south, they like the south. People right now like the south."

Lathum 07-19-2020 08:52 AM

The brain cancer will just magically disappear at some point.

JPhillips 07-19-2020 09:16 AM


Atocep 07-19-2020 10:30 AM

Roger Stone uses racial slur in interview with Black radio host | TheHill

Roger Stone caught saying the quiet stuff out loud. Then, of course, denied saying it even though there's recorded audio. Fist he claimed it was a poor connection and then said it was the host's studio engineer that said it.

SirFozzie 07-19-2020 10:31 AM

If Hannity wasn't on "vacation", I think he would be mounting a commando-style raid on Fox News HQ to destroy the footage of the interview.

ISiddiqui 07-19-2020 10:53 AM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...98&no_nav=true

This is terrible. I can't get over the selfishness of people who refuse to wear masks when business owners do all they can. The guy running in and yelling ADA while ignoring signs? What a terrible person.

kingfc22 07-19-2020 11:20 AM

Well the headline link on the Fox News site has zero quotes from Wallace so anyone just reading that will think bunker boy was “telling it like it is”

albionmoonlight 07-19-2020 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui (Post 3292061)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...98&no_nav=true

This is terrible. I can't get over the selfishness of people who refuse to wear masks when business owners do all they can. The guy running in and yelling ADA while ignoring signs? What a terrible person.


It kind of fits that MAGA worldview, though, that all these other people just get special treatment by existing. Black people get free college. Illegal Immigrants don't pay taxes. Poor people get free health care. Women get believed. Disabled people can do whatever they want. Non-Christians get to practice their religion more freely than Christians.

So they really do think that "the ADA" is just one of those "liberal things" that people invoke when they want to do whatever they want.

It doesn't make it right. But I think that it's more based in simple ignorance than malice. They think that they are persecuted, so they are trying to fight against that. If they were less naive, they'd probably act more reasonable.

GrantDawg 07-19-2020 03:08 PM

Watched the interview, and I really was a little underwhelmed on the gotcha. The biggest thing I got of it is the Fox poll has Biden's lead shrinking.

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Brian Swartz 07-19-2020 03:52 PM

The Lincoln Project is lying. Claiming Trump is unhinged assumes he was previously hinged up until now. This is clearly not the case.

JPhillips 07-19-2020 10:59 PM

A gunman disguised as a FedEx driver shot the husband and killed the son of a Federal judge in NJ.

Thomkal 07-20-2020 06:30 AM

Jack Nicklaus and his wife, age 80. had the virus in March and April. One had just a sore throat and cough, the other no symptoms.

Ksyrup 07-20-2020 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3292110)
A gunman disguised as a FedEx driver shot the husband and killed the son of a Federal judge in NJ.


Judge apparently oversaw an Epstein-related case which is probably going to ramp up the conspiracy theories. But the husband is a criminal defense attorney, so figuring out the true target may be a bit more difficult than you'd think.

Noop 07-20-2020 07:11 AM

Sycophants.

Noop 07-20-2020 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3292112)
Judge apparently oversaw an Epstein-related case which is probably going to ramp up the conspiracy theories. But the husband is a criminal defense attorney, so figuring out the true target may be a bit more difficult than you'd think.


I find the idea of a criminal client attacking their lawyer to be rare. Now probate lawyers being attacked I can totally see...

Ksyrup 07-20-2020 07:29 AM

Relatively speaking, this kind of brazen act is rare. But here's the thing about criminal defense attorneys- very often they used to be prosecutors. And they can have disputes with clients or disagreements just like any attorney.

All of this is to say, it's not likely he's the target, but law enforcement has to rule him out as the target which would not be as much of an issue if her husband ran the local grocery store.

Ksyrup 07-20-2020 07:31 AM

And here we go...


sterlingice 07-20-2020 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3292116)
And here we go...
Meadows says the Trump administration is readying a new executive order to expand the federal takeover of cities based on alleged lawlessness: "Attorney General Barr is weighing in on that with Secretary Wolf, and you'll see something rolled out on that this week." https://t.co/OltkCHVTP1
— Dan Friedman (@dfriedman33) July 19, 2020


Just remember - those of us who think this is patently nuts - we're the crazy ones.

SI

Ksyrup 07-20-2020 08:51 AM

So let me get this straight... I'm a conservative, always supported states rights. So what I take from the current GOP is that states aren't trusted to police themselves, but they should be expected to handle a global pandemic with minimal federal assistance and active resistance/inconsistent federal guidance. Got it.

sterlingice 07-20-2020 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3292121)
So let me get this straight... I'm a conservative, always supported states rights. So what I take from the current GOP is that states aren't trusted to police themselves, but they should be expected to handle a global pandemic with minimal federal assistance and active resistance/inconsistent federal guidance. Got it.


I know you already know the answer but it's never been about state's rights or local control. Just like how you have numbnuts like Kemp or Abbott overruling smaller city units when they try to, you know, do something about the pandemic.

Also, this weekend, I've been thinking a lot about this article: The Cruelty Is the Point

SI

Atocep 07-20-2020 11:09 AM

Despite being pretty far to the left, I do read opinions from the right to get some perspective and when I run into what I feel are logic gaps my wife does a good job of filling in the gaps since she was raised very republican in Texas.

I still can't wrap my head around how masks are tyranny and a dangerous loss of rights but federal troops that refuse to say who they are driving around in unmarked rental vehicles taking people off the streets for detainment is ok.

I would love to hear someone make this case because it seems genuinely bizarre to me.

Brian Swartz 07-20-2020 11:17 AM

I don't think that's consistent at all, but it's always easier to see logic gaps when it's the 'other side' making them.

Edward64 07-20-2020 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3292126)
I still can't wrap my head around how masks are tyranny and a dangerous loss of rights but federal troops that refuse to say who they are driving around in unmarked rental vehicles taking people off the streets for detainment is ok.

I would love to hear someone make this case because it seems genuinely bizarre to me.


I actually think the thought process is pretty simple.

It's okay to take those "deadbeats" off the street because they have spent 30-40 days causing disruption and so law and order needs to be restored.

The reason why the LEOs-and-like refuse to say who they are is because they don't want reprisals for them & family. They use rental vehicles because they want to monitor the situation and don't want to alert the deadbeats. I assume when they are taken off the streets that they have legal representation per the laws and not hauled away to a black site to be beaten.

I'm okay with the tactics of not identifying and use of unmarked vehicles, makes sense to me.

The real question to me is should they have been deployed to remove the protesters. I'm not sure as to what has been said, done, negotiated, timeline of events etc.

Brian Swartz 07-20-2020 11:48 AM

If you don't want to be identifiable, don't be a public servant. That just goes with the territory of being an elected official, police officer, fireperson, whatever. Secret police are incompatible with a free society. Having undercover operations be narrowly restricted is a good thing.

Edward64 07-20-2020 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz (Post 3292136)
If you don't want to be identifiable, don't be a public servant. That just goes with the territory of being an elected official, police officer, fireperson, whatever. Secret police are incompatible with a free society. Having undercover operations be narrowly restricted is a good thing.


From what I've read, its not required and/or depends on the situation. See below link.

Page not found - Lawfare.

I'm all for changing the laws if that's what's needed. Let's see how much support (Dem and GOP) it gets.

Quote:

Democratic Sens. Chris Murphy and Chuck Schumer have also announced that they are introducing legislation “requiring unidentified law enforcement officers and members of the Armed Forces to clearly identify themselves and their agency or service while they are engaged in crowd control or arresting individuals involved in civil disobedience or protests in the United States.”

ISiddiqui 07-20-2020 12:01 PM

There is an argument that they should be identifying themselves before seizing people under the 4th Amendment - though the 4th Amendment has been gutted so much over the last 50+ years.

JPhillips 07-20-2020 12:06 PM

Trump 2020 - It's worse than Afghanistan - By Far!



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