A decent try, but not what I was thinking of.

Similar situation when Democrats were polled on whether they believe Russia hacked the election. Not talking spreading information, but actually hacked machines. 50% or so said yes.

My hope is we don't have that many stupid people on both sides but who knows.

bbgunn's post reminded me that I guess I should finish my thought.

I'm actually legit surprised that nobody hit on it fairly easily.

I think the long game here is to get a call for a new Constitutional Convention and neuter the federal courts.

It's not an original idea, it's a complete hail mary ... and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he managed to pull it off (in part because it isn't something that hasn't been discussed before).

How about this, then (and this is scary as hell):

- EO gets blocked in the Supreme Court
- USA gets hit by a terrorist attack
- Trump and co. say, "Judges stopped us from doing anything. Our hands were tied."
- With the support of the public, Congress severely weakens the judges' ability to counter EOs and presidential edicts
- Trump and co. can rule as they see fit

Ah, you beat me to it! :D

Oh, and dola.

That's the guy who was mentored by a white supremacist, right?

Miller is the first one that Im not finding somewhat entertaining. His round this weekend was scary.

He and Spencer were friends at Duke.

Michael Flynn has to go, right? He's already admitted to lying to Pence. He's been compromised by Russia. They can't just sweep this one under the rug.

Only if the Republicans find their balls about it. Otherwise, it's partisan bickering.

Why is talking to an ally a big deal?

In my book, Flynn's error may not even crack the top 10 or even top 20 on the list of dumb things done by President Stupid and his band of idiots*

*so far

He gone

He resignamundo!

Keep em comin'!

Incidently yes they can, really. They've been sweeping things under the rug forever. The attitude of "what are you gonna do about it?" had been around for awhile now . Really surprised at the result actually.

Surprised as well. Flynn likely has more actual real-world value than Pence, so it's a shame to lose a useful guy but ... oh well.

He and his son have more time to get to the bottom of PizzaGate now.

Just a pawn in the master plan, right...

There's no real world value to a guy who was fired for incompetence and is clearly in cahoots with a known enemy. The fact that he's shown that he'll ignore factual information in favor of conspiracy theories would have been enough for a real president to not consider him for any position. He's also pretty clearly unqualified for the level of clearance he was going to have.

Hopefully he'll be prosecuted.

What real world value did he have?

A patsy. A fall guy. A red herring. A distraction.

I must be playing too much Darkest Dungeon lately because I heard this post in the game's narrator's voice.

I could have written this article myself. It's pretty much a bulls-eye for where I stand (though I'm having a hard time working on the part about showing respect. I probably should focus on the office, not who holds it.)

Especially this part (I think I've written something very similar in my blog, actually.)


https://scottsauls.com/2017/02/13/na...rity-refugees/

That's a great post, Ben. Thanks for sharing it.

If you haven't read Scott's books, especially Jesus Outside the Lines, do so now.

So the Republicans are more worried about leaks than the continued ties to Russia? Great pivot.

Trump, GOP lawmakers eye 'illegal' leaks in wake of Flynn resignation | Fox News

I'm pretty intrigued by the 'first lady' role in this presidency and who's really playing it. While Melania is obviously the true first lady, it really seems like Ivanka is the one pulling far more strings in the White House. She's making a ton of social media posts where she's in photos with her father and other cabinet and world leaders. At a minimum, he's definitely pushing her to the forefront with Melania playing the 'wifely duties' role thus far.

Well, he blew the doors off of the child sex ring sponsored by HRC under the pizza store in DC, didn't he?

Inclined to think this presidency may not make it to Christmas at this rate and maybe sooner than that.

I thought Trump loved leaked information? Encouraged it even. :confused:

Let me start by saying I think by far the most likely outcome is that Trump stays president through the 208 elections.

But, if the GOP is thinking about a way to get rid of him, the sooner the better I would think. Not only does damage from his WH continue, but any impeachment is going to take time to heal. As things get closer to the 2018 election I think it's less likely an impeachment, for almost any reason, will occur.

The optimal outcome would be a Trump resignation, but that seems highly unlikely. Regardless, I think Pence is the most dangerous man in Washington. He has no real loyalty to Trump, can't be fired, and gets all the spoils if Trump goes away.

They can't get rid of him because he is their base these days. There is a reason guys like Ryan are bending the knee.

The most disturbing part about Flynn is he had access to the highest levels of classified info for at least a month. Who knows how much damage that has done.

The resignation does seem to have spooked Russia quite a bit.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/14/russi...-of-flynn.html

Seen a lot of candidates thrown around. Surprised Patraeus is one of them. I actually think this would be a great spot for him but it's kind of tough to put a felon in that position. Especially one who violated the UCMJ. And while I'm not a huge fan of Bolton, I would feel comfortable with him in that position as well. He is experienced in that field and would not bow to Russia.

My initial reaction is Ivanka 2020 is totally going to be a thing. And there's no way Trump leaves office at the bequest of Republicans, as much as everyone would like to think.

Well, so far today the WH has reversed course and said that Flynn was fired and they expect Russia to give Crimea back. I wonder what their story will be tomorrow?

Yeah, for all the media is acting like these revelations change anything, Trump's base approval is doing just fine. I don't see him in any stronger or weaker of a position than he was in on inauguration day.

when a candidate would have to notify his probation officer if he got the job, you'd think that might hurt his chances.

it probably won't hurt his chances.

To be fair, hypocrisy aside, at least now they are hopefully taking leaks serious and not being so buddy buddy anymore with Russia.

We might still think Trump and his cronies are turds, but any move toward being more skeptical about Russia and its intents is a better one for the country.

Apparently Trump knew for a few weeks that Flynn had talked to the Russians:

Log In - New York Times

I guess his real crime was getting caught in the lie?

Leader must not be questioned. Man cannot resign to Leader, Leader says "You're Fired"

There is simply no end to the lying.

White House Posts Wrong Versions of Trump orders

Seems more like incompetence than lying. Neither of which shocks me.

This administration will lie about many things. I don't think there is a need to attribute lying where mere incompetence is likely.

I'd attribute citing "non-existant provisions of law" as more than just incompetence. If you're making it up, it's lying.

I disagree. With this crew, I think it's entirely possible someone winged it and didn't properly check references before putting it out there. That's incompetence, not lying. And completely in keeping with how Trump's people seem to do things.

Then a career staffer who knows what he's doing got a hold of it and corrected it for the Federal Register.

And as soon as he found out he waited three weeks and then fired him.

It was the quickest resolution in history. Period.

Principled Rand Paul speaks:

"I just don't think it's useful to be doing investigation after investigation, particularly of your own party. We'll never even get started with doing the things we need to do, like repealing Obamacare, if we're spending our whole time having Republicans investigate Republicans. I think it makes no sense."

I'm pleased that Republicans are taking principled stands on things like frivolous investigations of political rivals and stonewalling SCOTUS nominees.

(Actually, it does impress me that both parties are able to pull off the "we obstruct because we're principled; they do it just because they're assholes" move with a straight face.)

Completely agree and I do think the distinction matters.

There are times that I really want to like Rand. For example he was the only Republican during the primaries that seems to realize that giving more money to the military will raise the deficit.

However this is not one of those times.

Trump Advisor Stephen Miller: "The Powers of the President will not be questioned!" - YouTube

Those words are chilling.

I just want to hear him say "I am an EF Bee Eye Agent"

So what is the end game for Trump and company with all this Russia stuff? Is this just debt from Russia for helping them win an election? Or is there some plan going forward? Why do these guys love Russia so much? Please explain like I'm 5, I've missed the trees for the forest here.

It's just business, that's all. $.

To be fair that's almost all the GOP congressional delegation. They're willing to let Trump do damn near anything because opposing him in any way risks their legislative agenda.

All I know is that it's going to ruin Red Dawn if we have to be friends with the Russians.

I'm not ready to give up Red Dawn yet.

Oh. My.


If this is true I suspect you'll fairly rapidly see GOPers jump ship. Nobody is going to want to ride out that.

Maybe it was Trump's way out in case he did win. They kept Pence out of the loop so he can step in.

Just watch the remake.

Holy shit. I know that Trump will try to say the New York Times is fake news, but his campaign working with Russian intelligence during the election is treasonous and definitely a 'high crime'.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

That remake is worse than treason.

The remake did have some really good steadicam action sequences in the middle.

It feels bit too conspiracy theory-ish to credit Putin and Russia with both the election result and the continual leaks and Russian links, but man.... I'm close. How things are turning out just seems to align with Russia's goals perfectly.

Except that there was a leak from the White House today saying Trump expects Russia to return Crimea.

I wouldn't be surprised if Russia did tell them exactly that, even before Trump won. Doesn't mean they will actually do it, though.

Remember in Catch-22 when Col. Cathcart makes a deal with the Germans to take the cotton off their hands if Cathcart agrees to run missions to bomb his own base?

I'm feeling like that.

He's on a tweet storm again this morning. Maybe he wouldn't have so many leaks from the intelligence agencies if he hadn't attacked them before he took office.

Its not leaks, its fake news. Or wait its not fake news, its leaks. Either way, he's definitely not a communist.

An update to my situation as it comes to the freeze on government hiring and my wife's PCS orders. She successfully appealed to get the orders dropped so we're staying here. If she had kept the orders I would have vacated my position at the start of 2 massive IT projects (both once every 5-10 years type of projects) in a hospital. They would not have been able to fill my position and I would not have been able to transfer my job to her new duty assignment.

This is big for us. It allows us to stay here for the next 3 years and it means my son can finish high school before we move on and not have to transfer during his freshman year.

So if Flynn was treated "very unfairly" by "fake media", why did Trump fire him?

President Donald Trump: Just who the hell do you think you are? | Miami Herald

It does feel like critics are doing a bit of over-the-top "look at me" stuff in talking/writing about this president. I can't sort out to what extent I think it's justified.

No it doesn't. If Trump falls, next in line is Pence. If Pence falls, next in line is Ryan.

The only threat to their legislative agenda is if somehow ALL THREE were in on whatever Russo-Trumpian shenanigans were going on.

I think it severely weakens the party if the President goes down.

To be fair, this is the most "look at me" President I've ever seen. So the motto of live by the sword, die by the sword, has to come into play somehow.

Sounds like Puzder (Labor nominee) is withdrawing today.

There were something like 7-12 GOP Senators who were refusing to support him. He managed to piss off quite a bit of them.

Maybe. But to what extent is the GOP likely to abandon their legislative priorities if the President goes down? It's not as if the Senate would automagically flip to Democratic control or Nancy Pelosi becomes Speaker again.

"Elections have consequences" is a popular line, and if Trump were to be impeached or to resign, the GOP would not miss a beat in trying to craft their conservative utopia. "Well, we may have had to do our Constitutional duty and impeach Trump over his ties with Russia, but you know what? The American people elected us to do our jobs, too, and that means repealing Obamacare, rolling back job-killing regulations, protecting the sanctity of life, and making sure judges are confirmed who respect the Constitutional role of the courts and don't legislate from the bench."

That, or something very like it, would be the party line between now and the 2018 midterms if we found ourselves with a President Pence (or even a President Ryan).

Seems like some sort of grand compromise could be struck here.

Trump gets impeached, removed and tried for treason
Pence becomes President and gets his choice of a palatable VP.
RBG resigns and is replaced by a democratic justice of choice. Hell even just Garland.
Pence gets his justice thru and his cabinet fast tracked within reason
We reboot the whole process and call for a new constitutional convention.

JPhillips has said this numerous times and I will just echo his statements. If you guys think Trump's policies make your blood boil just wait what happens if you get your Trump impeachment/resignation. You will be begging for Trump the egomaniac.

His statement on Isreal was ignorant and reckless.

The compromise would be Trump resigns and gets pardoned by Pence. Then he could start his tv network and tweet all day.

Why would the Republicans piss off half their party that worships Trump? Those people voted against "the establishment" because it was used as their scapegoat in their lives. How mad do you think they'll be when you replace their guy with an establishment guy?

Pence is at least a sane human being. Don't agree with a lot of his views but I don't think he's going to start a war or destroy century old alliances because someone made fun of him on Twitter. I'll take a far-left or far-right President over a mentally ill one any day.

That's if they get rid of him. I'm talking about pissing him off without going so far as to impeach.

But as I said earlier, if they think it likely to happen at some point, I think there's a lot of benefit for the GOP to impeach sooner rather than later. Pence or Ryan will deliver a legislative agenda much more predictably orthodox, and there's a lot of time for wounds to heal between now and Nov. 2018.

The problem is the time and the unknown. There's a limited amount of legislative time before 2018, so the GOP doesn't want to grind things to a halt for a month or two. Also, a party hasn't impeached their own, and it's an awfully big bet to make.

Yes.

But, Trump is so uniquely dangerous to the republic that, while I'd fight his policies, I'd be much happier with Pence in charge. Trump is the worst thing that can happen to the GOP, maybe an extinction level event, but the country is more important.

Video of his ex-wife talking about beating her from an Oprah show in 1990 was probably the last straw for him.

"reboot the whole process and call for a new constitutional convention" is less "compromise" and more "tactical nuke." Once that convention gets called, anything goes; given the current makeup of state legislatures, that could effectively mean constitutional amendments outlawing abortion, nerfing the 14th Amendment and allowing religious-based discrimination, and so on. You'd be talking about generational, and possibly permanent, defeat on a wide swath of issues in exchange for getting rid of Trump. It's the Kobayashi Maru of "doing the best thing for the Country."

Points 1-4 could form the framework for a "grand compromise," but #5? That's a "heads we win, tails you lose" element.


Counterpoint: the effort to impeach Clinton and the talk about impeaching Obama painted the GOP as desperate to get revenge for Nixon. If the GOP impeaches Trump, that allows them to wrap themselves in the flag and say "it's not about politics, it's about the strength of the Republic."

Is it a gamble? Yes. But remember that Democrats are playing massive, massive defense in the Senate, and that House district lines are drawn such that it would take about a 5-6% lead for a generic Democrat for them to flip the House. Even with the razor thin Senate margin, Republicans are still defending about 1/3 as many seats as Democrats are, and several of the ones Democrats have to defend are in GOP-friendly states.

The right spin gets Trump out of the Oval Office and preserves Republican majorities in Congress.

Eh... any Constitutional Convention would run into ratification issues. They may decide how their new Constitution would have to be ratified in order to be the 'law of the land', but I'd guarantee that those states who rejected ratification would assert that they are not under the new Constitution but the old.

Of course that may likely lead to civil war, so that's likely not ideal either.

I still don't understand what is the upside for Republicans in this scenario. They anger their base for what?

It wasn't that bad but definitely not as good as the original.

Their base is going to be angered by anything short of "and a pony, too" at this point. They've had the Presidency and Congress for almost a whole month and Obamacare STILL hasn't been repealed OMGWTFBBQ.

Put another way: are Republicans going to abandon the party in the midterms and either not vote, or vote for Democrats? Probably not. Can they spin it to be palatable to independents? Sure. If, four years from now, they can point to 'look at all the shit we got done,' are base Republicans going to care that Trump was dumped and vote for Chelsea Clinton (or whoever the hell) instead?

The optimal situation for the GOP is Trump resigning without articles of impeachment, but I just don't see Trump leaving without burning the buildings and salting the earth.

Fixed it for you. Madlibs president!

Cheeto-in-chief is holding a 2020 campaign rally on Saturday.

The Russia-US stuff is all going to come down to oil and rich folks getting richer.

There is just too much going on there, between the big Russian oil sell off to unknown buyers, the Flynn stuff, Tillerson as secretary of state, and the leaks that certainly appeared to hurt Hillary (rather than both candidates).

I think Trump may have even had some good intentions, in thinking that a stronger Russia may provide more direct competition for China. The problem is he has been playing checkers with grandmaster chess players in Putin, Tillerson, etc (and I think Obama had some awareness, hence the late stage Arctic drilling ban and expulsion of the Russian agents).

Log In - New York Times

Obama did that pretty close to the end too. Looks pretty interesting after yesterday's revelations.

I'm likely to be there protesting against him ... that's my neck of the woods ... I'll wave at you chaps as I get arrested ;)

If a large enough group can get it going, the best way to protest Trump's rallies is for enough people to get tickets to it and just not show up.

Step 1: Trump talks to Chinese Premier

Step: 2: Trump says U.S. will honor 1 China policy

Step 3: Chinese trademark for Trump businesses approved after multi-year delay

Where are your Cards Against Humanity skills?

Comeon on...

Everybody!

Step 4........

I still don't get what the upside is for Republicans to get rid of Trump. You're saying that there may not be any repercussions but not saying what they could possibly gain by doing it. Seems like a high risk, no reward scheme that comes from the left.