yeah - lack of a runaway isn't a bad thing in this case as EF says.

Holy crap!!!! We agreed on something. :eek:

:devil:

I honestly have no idea what the count is. I figured mine made it something like 3-2 ISidd over Thom. Is there an updated count?

DT, do you have any suggestions for me? I don't think I ever got a hit from the PM I sent you way early in the game.

While we figure things out, and due to just some odd feelings reading while I was out of the game...

Vote Thomkal

As of 2408:

IS 4 - henry (2306), nfg (2319), sal (2395), Jack (2402)
Thom 2 - PB (2313), Brian (2408)
Autumn 1 - path (2388)
king 1 - EF (2398)

Your vote actually made it 4-1-1-1 at the time. Now it's 4-2-1-1.

unvote king

vote Jack

That last vote got me wondering even more about him now; with his vote making it even more of a runaway at the time.

This is not correct. nfg is dead.

I will tie it up here. I felt drawn to getting rid of Thomkal first anyway.
Vote Thomkal

I said I think they are both wolves - if I'd known only one was on Thomkal (I swore at least 2 were already) I wouldn't have put a 4th on ISidd, but it looks fine now.

What, are n00bs usually given a welcome-to-the-club early lynching? I'm sure that helps in retaining them for future games ;).

Oh, and EF, I didn't mean any offense. I just saw that you were the most, I guess the word would be, excited of everyone.

Well, a busier weekend, and weekday than I expected. I just caught up. I'm not surprised they got the seer, I was able to peg that eventually, which is why I stopped pushing DT on NFG's fishy story. I apologize if I pushed it too much and gave it away to the wolves.

I think it's good to go from the uncleared list. Jackal won't be surprised to hear he's still on top of my list. He seems to be avoiding attention for hte most part in this vote so I'm likely to go there, it seems unlikely the wolves aren't pushing the vote at this time. EF is my next likely target, frankly,. he's been trying to discredit DT's thinking the whole time. Both of these guys have a lot more pointing at them than the rest of the list.

I agree a runoff is a good idea though.

VOTE THE JACKAL

Sorry, this game has gotten me a little more stirred up that usual I would say (with no Lathum someone had to get stirred up :) ). At least I think that is the case.

I think it got elevated because of the last couple of games where I came out with theories that weren't listened to and they ended up being dead on. :)

In fact, DT, I would go so far as to suggest jackal for your interrogation. The information I came up with about him was of a foreign nature. Doesn't necessarily mean anything, but the writeup on JAG made it sound like we could expect the foreigners to generally be bad.

I'm watching the kids so my presence will be sketchy. I'm going to try to check back in when I can.

Racist.... :eek:


Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

I am about to head into that 3 hour long meeting frmo hell. Will be back sometime (will still have this up in the background so I may sneak a peek once in a while).

LOL, well 24 hasn't necessarily been too PC about "racial profiling", as far as I can tell ;).

I don't know why you would have gotten a foreigner read on me. I don't think this character is British, pretty sure it is American.

As of 2422:

IS 3 - henry (2306), sal (2395), Jack (2402)
Thom 3 - PB (2313), Brian (2408), ntn (2413)
Jack 2 - EF (2411), Autumn (2416)
Autumn 1 - path (2388)

Removed nfg's vote and updated.

suggestion for you brian...hmmm. let's see...what would work...

No, not British, Vic. Maybe this is better than I thought. Balkan according to the Wiki.

i'll prolly sit on my vote for a bit and see which way i want to go...

You may want to pick Autumn for your aggressive interrogation. I was curious to see who would be the first person from the untrusted list to sell another one out, and Autumn suggested interrogating The Jackal. I'm leaning toward the assumption that Autumn is trying to get you to blow your scan on a villager to buy time for the conspiracy.

So those on the untrusted list are no longer allowed to try to help the cause? What would you want us on the NT list to do, go after someone from the trusted list or try to help the village find the right one(s) on the NT list?

If the info doesn't sound suspicious to you, skip on it, DT. But it sounds like Jackal is claiming a different role than his scan gave to me.

A curious idea. Follow this through before jumping to a decision.

Right now we have 14 people left?

It's either 11-3 or 12-2 I would think. We will ay 11-3 for the sake of this argument as it's the toughest problem we face of the two.

We have 6 in the questionable list. If we basically go through that list, I am okay with being lynched at some point if it gets us a win and all the wolves are on that list we win. Worst case scenario we pick REALLY poorly and pick the 3 villagers from the list first it is still 5-3 and we pick them off one at a time until we win.

Where we run into an issue is if there is a cunning among the trusted. Wouldn't it help us more if DT uses his ability on a potential cunning?


Again, just trying to cover our bases since we are a slam dunk victory here if all the wolves are in the untrusted list.

i think we are going about this the entirely wrong way...we have a very narrow list of suspects and we are spreading out our votes....i am thinking that because of the % needed to lynch being dependent on the time from the last lynch, we should be focusing our votes on one person...theoretically, we could get multiple lynches right after one another and hammer that list...it would actually give the wolves no where to hide and make them vote for each other.

allow me to elaborate further.

lets say we decide to target Isiddiqui...we all vote him except for Thomkal...who thinks the idea is dumb...if Isiddiqui comes up wolf, that gives us Thomkal as the next target, who we all vote for again....rinse, repeat until we go all the way through the list of no trust.

with the clock mechanic the way it is, i think we need to start taking advantage of it instead of falling back upon our habit of one lynch per day.

apparently EF and I are equally as brilliant.

Vic? That's not my name. DT knows my name, I told him on the first day.

So, you're claming that you're not Victor Drazen, Jackal?

That would be contrary to what my scan showed.

That isn't it at all. If the untrusted list is 50% or more conspiracy, that means the conspiracy is in trouble. That also means there is a 50% or better chance that whoever is interrogated will be a conspiracy member. The logical thing for the conspiracy to do is "help out" and feed us a villager to buy some time. For that to work, the suggestion would have to be made quickly so it could be the first suggestion. Fighting over who to interrogate would provide us too much information, so being the first suggestion is a must.

Is there a reason you are so offended by me picking someone not you from the NT list to interrogate? Is there any reason you don't want to see Autumn interrogated?

Let me check and see if he ever claimed a name...i believe he did.

i very much agree with this FWIW - let's take advantage of the clock, hammer out a couple quick lynches and leave the wolves nowhere to hide

yep - that's what i thought i remembered.

FWIW guys - Jackal definately claimed a different role than Vic Drazen. So either Jackal or Autumn is a wolf. I see no reason why they shouldn't both be on the block today and we'll see what that brings.

I'm happy to vote either, I just want to get us started in that direction, so don't read too much into this.

VOTE JACKAL

i'm still torn about where i'd rather my vote actually end up, i may end up moving to autumn when i get home...

no, please do help

Perhaps because he's the cunning wolf so he wasn't worried about a scan before we lost our seer, thus his behavior these past few days? I'd vote for him today if I could, but that would just spread the vote out even more.

Uh, well I guess I don't have a choice here. I'm George Mason.

Unvote ISidd

Vote Autumn

I don't know what kind of scanning you can do, but I am definitely not Victor Drazen.

I'd like to take this moment to point out the last person that was set on voting for me, which was Pass, though he didn't claim to have this false info that Autumn does.

I don't know what to say to the rest of you, really. My votes on the first two days were wrong, but most people's were, including DTs. And since then all I've done is vote for wolves, so..

And why would I lie about what my name is? It's not like names have any correlation to what kind of power we have. Autumn claiming this business about being "suspicious of foreigners" is odd, considering we seemed to reach the conclusion on Day 1 or maybe even Day 0 that there is no correlation between tv role or nationality and the conspiracy. The first conspirator we caught was Kim Bauer..

I can find the name of a player's role. That's all I know. I thought it would be a good idea to scan a foreigner since they're the "villains" on the show. But maybe we caught you at something. Maybe you have some other reason for hiding your name, I don't know.

And who was the last foreigner we found out about? NFG as Sumarov. Oh, he happened to be the seer. So I don't really understand the motivation for Autumn here.

You thought it would be a good idea to scan a foreigner? But why did you assume I was a foreigner? Maybe I just caught you in spewing some BS.

Why would anyone in this game lie about their character's name? Your role seems made up, even.

No, they don't, which is why I didn't bother mentioning it earlier. However in looking through the list of folks on the non-trust list to decide where to vote it stuck out at me. I looked back at JAG's writeup and noted that it kind of made a deal about how he was a foreigner/villain, but even yet was on our side. It made me think maybe the others weren't.

Seemed like something worth looking at. I just suggested it as something to give DT a basis to interrogate on. I didn't expect that you had faked your name. Interesting though that you both say it's not true but defend the foreigner's names.

Actually, to be more accurate, Suvarov is listed under the heading of "Presidents and their Wives".

I thought it would be a good idea for *Jack* to scan a foreigner, by which I mean interrogate a foreigner. Too many differnet things with the same terms, sorry.

Weird move, Autumn. Well, I'm confident in you being a wolf now.

Made up? I had the same exact role in the game you ran, I believe it was. lol

Alright, so that clears that up. But it still doesn't give any reason why I would lie about what my name is. There is nothing I can think of that would give a person a reason to lie about what their role is in this game unless they are supposed to outlive a certain person, as I think someone mentioned as a role earlier in this one (and a role I've had before in other games) - but that is not my case, and at this point I would tell the truth about it anyways, as I have in games past.

There is just no reason for me to lie about my character name, I am George Mason, I always have been, and I don't have much else to say.

But in this game knowing the names of characters gives no correlation to a role. I don't know what role you are referring to.

Whatever, I'm not going to get in a pissing match about it. The information is there. I'm obviously not of a trusted enough status to be leading any lynch votes. Interrogate me instead if you want and save Jackal for another day. I'd rather you didn't lynch me as I may unsurface someone else, but that will point the way as well.

I've got to go, I'll check back in before or after dinner.

Unfortunately I'm now going to be gone until after 9 because of skating. So Autumn will have plenty of chances to continue talking, but I just hope the rest of you consider this carefully.

DT, I'm not going to use my role. If the village really thinks it's smart to lynch me I'll just let it happen. I think I've played a good game for us considering I'm pretty much a vanilla villager in terms of usefulness to anyone.

Ha, well at least both of us are going, other people can duke this out.

It's just an information gathering role. You might recall the wolves had a membver with the same ability. I'm not sure how useful it was for them, but it at least allowed DT to cross reference the stories people were telling.

If there was no reason to hide your role in this game, why would Barkeep and Hoops gone through all the trouble of making extra roles? You seem to be missing something.

Just got online as I've been busy at work all day.

Looks like this is going to be a Jackal/Autumn lynch decision.

My point is that we are so focused on the list that no one is thinking about the "after life: of the list. Scanning someone from the list does what? Buys us a victory maybe one lynch sooner if the cunning is not in the trusted list? At that point it leaves us with nothing new to go on once the list is exhausted. If the list is 50% wolf than even if we make the worst possible lynch votes in the history of WW by lynching the 3 villagers first we still win.

If we don't take a shot at looking past this we may be sitting on just one chance to win after the list is gone and if we pick wrong we lose. Why would we not want information to help us make that one last lynch? If we runaway vote we learn nothing if there is a cunning. If we make each vote close enough to have movement we will learn something. For the same reason if we use the scan on a trusted (only chance that a cunning could hurt us) we take a shot at nailing a cunning hiding among us.

I am not saying that there is a cunning there. I am saying that we should play expecting to have to weed one out. That way if it's not there we win and go home happy but if it is than we have gained a lot of information.

Exactly what is wrong with trying to be prepared?

I'm not sure it was necessary considering there were no pre-game role reveals. I might be missing something, but even the wolves were given one of those characters, so why would we run into the situation where two people are claiming the same character?

It's one thing if knowing anyone's character name would give any correlation to a role, but it doesn't.

As of 2467:

IS 2 - henry (2306), sal (2395)
Thom 3 - PB (2313), Brian (2408), ntn (2413)
Jack 3 - EF (2411), Autumn (2416), DT (2441)
Autumn 2 - path (2388), Jack (2445)

unvote Jack

vote Autumn

Just testing a theory.

unvote Thomkal
vote The Jackal

Keeping things tied here I think.

So your plan is to interrogate someone on the trusted list that the seer scanned and lynch someone on the NT list? We are just assuming that the cunning - if there is one - would have no voting history that would tell us something after we know more wolves?

I'm not against starting the search for the cunning wolf now, but I don't know that I'd suggest searching for something we don't know exists while ignoring a search for stuff we do know exists. I'd suggest we knock out the wolves now so that the voting ratio is really in our favor while we search for the cunning wolf.

ok, now i am getting really suspicious of purduebrad...eaglefan and i both spelled out a legitimate strategy that DT also likes, and instead of even acknowledging it, he is choosing to keep things tied?

i dont understand the value of that play at this point in the game.

unvote isiddiqui
vote autumn

dt, do you think now might be a good time for me to use my role...i need a little help with a target if you do...it has to be someone in the same category as myself, or someone from the group directly below it in post 2

Saldana, I didn't read anything yet, I'm in the midst of making dinner and just watching new posts. First post I saw when I came on was EF's vote and I thought I would keep it even. Fault me for being lazy I guess.

Going back when I have time.

EF, your plan is to interrogate someone on the trusted list? For what? You think the seer can't find the cunning wolf but Jack's interrogation can? Do we have reason to think that's true.

That seems a little crazy to me.

I can't see why exactly I'm getting the votes I am. If I'm telling the truth you lynch me, realize I am, lynch Jackal, I guess, but don't get any more of my ability. If you trust me either lynch Jackal, or if you want to play it safe just interrogate one of us and lynch someone else today. That gives you a clear lynch tomorrow and you still get a lynch today.

I'll move my vote to someone else in that case but now I'm needing it for self preservation it seems.

By the way, I am finally here and am catching up right now.

Saldana, please tell me your plan is the one where we condense votes and get some lynches rather than the one where we waste powers on cleared or at least semi-cleared characters. If it is the former, I'm with you and will move. If it is the latter, then I think it is a bad idea.

Vote Autumn

I think Autumn is more likely a wolf than Jackal is at this point.

I'm agree with this.

it is absolutely "the condense votes on the people on the uncleared list" plan...i think we should be trying to get a unanamous vote followed by another one as soon as possible..with the number of cleared players we have, we shouldnt be waiting for a 1 lynch per day anymore.

i agree because i cant see a value in lying about your character name...although i also dont see a value in lying about someone lying about their character name.

Man, that upset you had a few years ago was AWESOME!!!!!

Definitely following along with this:

unvote Jackal
vote Autumn

I like going for multiple lynches quickly since we should press our advantage some and big stack the wolves.

Why? IF, and I say IF, there is a cunning involved in the trusted list this gives them a free place to hide.

Ok, after reading (not really contributing -sorry), I see that there really are 3 viable option. Autumn's past few posts have seemed more odd than the others.

Vote Autumn.

EF, I don't doubt that you're right, there likely is a cunning. I would prefer to attack the known and then start to pick apart the unknown. I am prepared for that very scenario, honestly, but I would really like to see us net two-three more wolves and see where we're at.

As of 2467:

IS 1 - henry (2306)
Thom 2 - Brian (2408), ntn (2413)
Jack 2 - Autumn (2416), DT (2441)
Autumn 6 - path (2388), Jack (2445), EF (2469), sal (2474), king (2480), PB (2485)

thanks BrianD!!

But this would give us one chance to get it right and with less infomation. I cannot see how that is a good idea at all.

Momentum is a bad word to use but it's kind of what I'm arguing, or maybe it is advantage. But I feel we're in a good spot here and I want to make it a great spot by knocking out a couple more wolves before we start some of the other scenarios. I know that there is no real momentum factor but I do like making the other side panic some, I think it can lead to poor decision making.

We are. I am not saying we don't vote the list. Voting the list is knocking out the wolves.

The problem is that we cannot stop until the list is gone. When the list is gone we have one chance, just one chance toget it right or we lose. What is wrong with trying to give ourselves as much information as possible when getting to that one chance (again, IF there is a cunning among the trusted).

I guess I'm also not sold on anyone having an ability that can 'catch' a cunning wolf unless somebody has said something that I missed (likely, hectic day here). I want to limit our losses, knock out some wolves, and then see what's left. I prefer to stay the conservative path here for once (a rarity for me).

I guess I do see where you are coming from a bit more EF regarding info. I do see value in what you are saying but our problem is that we take out voters when they are interrogated which could definitely back-fire on us.

dola: to comment on the great spot phrase. How is it a great spot when it is 3-1 and we have one chance to get it right and nothing to go on because we wasted 6 straight votes on landslides?

okay *nods*

idk...hmmm

I am guessing if anyone can it would be Jack's "intensive interogation". If DT know for certain that he cannot catch the cunning that way than I'll stop arguing that idea right now. But I still think we shouldn't do runaway votes.

because if we condense the votes then we'll limit the wolves ability to get kills in hopefully, and the people left will be cleared?

i don't know for certain

It sounds like we will be talking one interogation and that would be tomorrow. It we miss today it's still most likley 9-3 meaning there is no way the wolves can gain a percentage advantage to eliminate a trusted.