I'm guessing that means Kwhit won the swordsman, as DC said she was bidding on me.

I was thinking Kwhit too, but DC has not really been very amicable or forthcoming. Not sure whether or not to trust her in going for who she said she would go for.

I did not get Ardent. I am assuming DC did.

I would point out that while people have been uneasy about me, the facts against DC are stronger. She has been in a position of wealth and has done little for the communal good. Where as yesterday she could have guaranteed us the swordsman, instead she's likely taken Ardent again and we have no clue who has the swordsman, whether good or bad. Please join me in voting for DC today to be thrown off the rock.

Reading. I see some lawyer clarification a few pages back, I'll respond shortly.

Which Anxiety said no to. Which...it half fits, it half doesn't.

The one time I had the lawyer, I did indeed have the option of using him for the Senate as a prosecutor, or using him for my own benefit as a defender/lawsuit machine. It was very clear that I could use the lawyer for both my PERSONAL treason defense (remember, I was in jail), and the lawsuit I had going.

And I also had the scanning ability, which is where it gets unclear. I was not informed that, if I appointed the lawyer to the Senate, I would not get a scan. Mind you, I inquired further about that option (appointing him to the senate), because obviously I had other uses for him that day.

Long story short, I cannot fully confirm or deny what Anxiety said on this one.

I wasn't told it was an either/or option, but that may have come from a clarification that I didn't get 'cause I didn't go the Senate route for the lawyer.

DC, did you get Ardent, the swordman, etc.?

It sounds like you are both saying that if you give the Lawyer to the Senate to prosecute, you do not also get a personal scan, correct?

Re-read. I was not explicitly told that.

Well, it would sort of make sense as we would get two scans from one lawyer if you could use the lawyer for a senate prosection and a personal scan.

I tend to agree, but from what I see, DC got herself into this mess by being so belligerent in the first place, which seems like an odd wolf move. I don't have much suspicion of Barkeep, so I'm likely to throw my vote at DC, but I'll give her some time today.

I only have a matter of 15 minutes and then I won't be here for the rest of the day. I have been hoping for a bit more information to be forthcoming but that turns out not to be the case. I had also sort of been hoping for a scan of DC or Barkeep but Anxiety's post suggests that isn't going to happen. I don't know what is going to come of CR plan but I honestly think it seems to be working and I would ask people to consider implementing it again. I'll not be able to participate, obviously, as I'm not going to be here again.

I'm going to

Vote execute Dodgerchick

I've finally got a bit of information to back this up for the first time in the game.
-1) I still think that there's a rich person in the wolves. DC fits the bill. See previous posts for my explanations about this.
-2) She was very doubtful about CR's plan. Fair enough I can understand people not wanting to advertise that they should be killed. But I honestly think CR's plan is a way to start garnering solid information, rather than the hunches and suspicions we've been going on up till now. Had KWhit not switched his bid to the Swordsman DC would have jeopardised the whole plan. So a plus for KWhit and a big minus for DC in my book.
3) Her wealth has put her in a position to really help the village. In my book I don't think she has really done so.
4) There's the question I raised of someone possibly killing Swaggs because they knew what the lawyer could do. It seems like there's a good chance that that comes down to DC or CW. It might not be anything but then again it might.

-1) She cleared Autumn who I trust. However it's not unknown for a wolf to clear in order to build up some trust. With the added bonus that if they go down the villager will probably go with them.
-2) Her massive reaction a couple of days ago. So maybe she was annoyed but at the fact that people were starting to question her in her role as a wolf. I don't really know anything about DC's personally, so I can't judge her based on that.

Meanwhile - Barkeep
-1) There's my impression that something wasn't right with Barkeep in the first few days. I think a couple of other people mentioned it as well.
-2) There's CR's theory that one of the wolves must be in the group of five including Barkeep. I don't know. It made sense to me at the time and it's something we might want to look at again. But I don't think it's enough to warrant an execution today.

On the other hand
+1) I don't think a wolf would make a strong play to become consul and then mess it up quite so catastrophically. ;)
+2) He was amenable to CR's plan. Admittedly you can say "well, it's easy for him to be when he's not really in the reckoning", but still it's a plus in my book.

I'm not even considering a vote to acquit both. We need to start gathering voting patterns.

I would normally say who I would like to see arrested at this stage but I think we need for the picture about who got what services to emerge. Sorry consuls. I know how it feels.

That's me for today. Good luck with the analysis of the list.

Two days ago, I wasn;t supposed to take anybody there bub

So Anxiety, what services did you get?

I got the slaves obviously

Already duly noted there, bub.

No one else in the top area claims to have gotten them, it was mentioned that they didn;t fall, so someone in the top took them. They aren't all that powerful. If someone in the top six or seven or however many are on CR's list has the slaves, and I was the only one in that group to sauy that they were going to take them, then its not too hard to beleive that I got them and that I'm telling the truth when I say I got them as well.

Yeah, well, it hadn;t been while I was catching up.

Ok.. back from freakin Disaster Recovery.

What the hell mechanic is in play where some senators WIN all their lawsuits all the freakin time and others lose all the time?

Vote to throw DC off the cliff.

While part of me wants to see the BK tossed, I think there is growing evidence that DC may have been bluffing this entire time.

I'm more than interested to hear from Kwhit and DC on this matter.

if we're all that afraid of DC, why not just have the swordsman kill her? am I missing something there? it worries me that she's been constantly hiring ardent...something's going on there.

I'd be all for that were it not for the fact that she's already in jail. Are you suggesting we should both be killed? I think DC's hesitation and hostility are different from other games and she is the first person this game who I feel good about voting for, aside from the fact that it also saves my neck :).

oh. I missed the fact that she was in jail as I was speed-reading through the morning's posts

Yeah, I say use the swordsman if this doesn't work. But, I'm not convinced she's evil yet.

Really looking forward to KWhit confirming what he got.

I generally agree with Ironhead and CR's logic about our wolf pack. Anxiety and path stick out to me as the most likely problems on that list -- we still don't really know about either of them, do we? But how everything goes down today is going to be really telling as to who we need to be looking at going forward.

DC...is an interesting case. Her emotional outburst really makes me think she's innocent. Nothing she's really done in the past makes me think she's the kind of person that can fake that kind of outrage...but it's not impossible she learned how, one way or another. But if she's really as hotheaded as she seems she is ;), then it's probably legit. Really hard to control/fake that kind of stuff.

However, I don't have a particular reason to chuck BK off the cliff. I don't really have a particular reason to NOT chuck him off the cliff, though. For now I'm going to hold judgment until DC tells us what she did last night and what she's doing today.

Don't use the swordman on her if she is already in jail. That just does not make sense.

Vote to send Dogeius Erchickus to the Rock

Kinda weird not having kwhit around today.

Except that this would be her first time as a wolf. We have no idea what her wolfish play is. And I point out I had my own moment of outrage after KWhit and I failed to arrest two people on our first day as consuls.

Is there an out of game reason why Kwhit is not around?

I am at work so I don't have a lot of time to elaborate on this and will not be on to post again until probably 6 pm est.


Post #2244

I went back and checked everyone's vote against what the final "recorded" votes were. The only in thread vote that didn't match the final votes was DaddyTorgo's vote for me as Consul - the final vote was changed to himself. As far as I know the only way to change a vote is with the Priest, who Coffee Warlord had stated he won in the thread yesterday. He even stated that it was a "worthless" service.

So assuming he wasn't lying about having the service why did he take the time to change a vote away from me as Consul? I could go back and try to figure out a timeline of votes later, but I don't think DT was ever really in the running to win as Consul yesterday. I don't think this speaks to guilt on DaddyTorgo as much as it is a very curious move by CW.

All right, here is the current wealth list, with suggested bids:

The following are the wealthiest men in Rome:

Ardentus Enthusiastus-- sword killer (already bid, I believe)
Kayus Whitus-- ardent lawyer (i think we should prioritize putting ardent in someone's service besides DC)


The following Senators are known as extremely wealthy:

Abeus Anxietus-- narcizo lawyer (tryingf to change up where possible)
Dodgeus Erchickus-- can't bid today, in jail
Passus Caglius-- sex slaves
Pathus Twelveus-- one of the two bodyguards--pick one and be absolutely clear who you're picking


The following Senators are known as moderately wealthy:

Barkeepus Valerius Fortynineus-- can't bid today, in jail
Coffeus Yakus Warlordus-- which ever bodyguard path12 doesn't pick, or if path12 comes later, path12 should pick whatever BG CW doesn't pick
Grammus Atticus-- backup sex slaves bid
Ironus Headus-- backup sword killer bid
Narcizus Lispus-- won't be able to bid today

The following remaining Senators are of normal wealth:


Autumnus Leavus -- backup ardent lawyer bid
Chiefus Rumus-- backup narcizo lawyer bid
Chubbus Chubbus
Daddus Torgous
Mustangus Sallus
Tyrus Ithus

I am in and out today, so I can't really flesh this out or give more suggestions. Some of you here will have to be custodians of seeing this all done.

My bid for Narcizo's services is in.

I will submit votes in a second.

You are correct, my bid is in.

EXECUTE DODGERCHICK

She might be good and just misguided, but we can't make that assumption. Sorry DC, but we were always headed to this point.

I don't have arrest suspects right now, although I am leaning toward Coffee Warlord because of growing suspicious activity. It might be time to just remove Chubby from the game, too. It's clear he isn't participating.

I am out for the day. Good luck everyone.

Okay, I have put in my backup bid for durus pimpus.

It's more meta than anything else. DC has never been a wolf, and she has been increasingly frustrated at times (personally I think she's being way too hard on herself) with in game situations that come up. Her blowup strikes me as a buildup of frustration for feeling like she made a mistake and is totally in character with being innocent in my opinion.

I could be wrong, but if she was bad I think she would not pick this time to blow up. So I think it was a waste because I don't think she's guilty. But I don't get the case against Barkeep either, so I find myself with the dilemma of having to choose between two people I kind of trust. Such is WW.

VERY VERY INTERESTING IRONHEAD!

I know that I voted for you because as I said, I feel like you've been right on, and I didn't think electing myself consul would be as good as electing you consul.

So my vote was changed hmmm? Very curious CW.

I vote that our consuls move to arrest him.

i vote arrest chubby and arrest CW.

Further interesting due to the fact that I absolutely did not send in an order to use his services yesterday.

Good spot Iron Head.

This is getting interesting.

I want to clear up my bid. I bid for Ardent the day before this. On the bids being described above I made a backup bid for the sex slaves and lost.

As for who I'd like to see jailed, I'd go with DaddyTorgo or Path12.

A tertiary (not sure if I spelled that correctly) choice would be Tyrith.

I still have a hard time seeing Dodgerus CHickus as a traitor. It doesn't make much sense. If she is a traitor then we have to consider her use of services. Either:

1) She's been telloing the truth about the services she obtained. The use of the sex slaves was confirmed by Ironus Headus. If she was a traitor why would she choose to scan AlanT, myself and Swaggus and confirm us as loyal? I know I actually am loyal, and the others were killed by poison.

2) She's been lying about her service bids (either in league with Ironhead or only lying about the lawyer bids). She was using her bids for other services or using the lawyers in ohter ways, but pretending to use the lawyer scan on the above people.

Pretending to use the lawyer, but actually bidding on other services would be a devious traitor route to go, certainly. But if so, why scan and confirm loyalty for three people who actually are loyal? Woudln't it be much smarter to cast doubt on some loyal people and confuse us, or confirm some traitors as loyal? That seems too ridiculous a move by a wolf to believe.

That would have to be either a move to make us trust her, or just poor play. Given how well the traitors are doing, I don't believe they're playing poorly. And why would the traitors waste the wealthiest Roman on all this just to trick us?

I'm going to vote to free Dodgerchick. I think there's too much evidence showing that she's been playing on the loyal side. Yes, I wish she had done other things with some of her bids. But if she's scanned three loyal people, and blocked a player with the killer as her moves, she must be the worst traitor ever!

Barkeepus I don't have a strong sense on. I've suspected him at times. I don't have strong evidence, as I do with Dodgerus Chickus, that he's loyal. So I am going to vote EXECUTE BARKEEPUS unless I see some strong evidence in his favor.

I will submit a backup bid for ARdentus.

We haven't gotten confirmation yet as to who DC bid on and if she got that person, right?

I will bid on the first bodyguard listed, whoever that is.

As I've stated elsewhere, I don't suspect Dodgerchick. The rest of this list though seem worthy of suspicion. If no one has evidence or a scan on any of these, we will have to find some way to pick from them.

I'm trying to catch up. Has Ironhead chosen an arrest suspect yet?

Not to my knowledge.

Anxietus said he won his bid. The other top tier bidders have not commented on their outcome.

st.cronin says: Knock it Off ;)

:)

I'm doing the best I can. This is far and away the most difficult game I've run yet.

I think you've done a good job so far, I think this would be a tough game to run... Although you do have me reviewing my ruleset for my upcoming game to make sure I'm not going to drive myself crazy........ ;)

I just woke up and need to get some stuff done so I'm gonna post and take off for a few. I won the services of Ardent Enthusiast and apparently I'm still able to scan someone. If anyone can throw some names out I'd appreciate it.

I'll be back and comment some more.

I thought you had thought Pass was not a traitor a few days ago?

I still am not sure if DC's messages are more and act or serious.. I tend to think serious but.. who knows.

So, we need to make a decision on a scan and an arrest. I'm open to people's thoughts. I'll take a look through the posts and think about it myself.

Well, I wouldn't say I thought he wasn't a traitor. But I didn't see any evidence, especially with teh player turnover just around then. It seemed worth giving some more time. I'll have to go back and look, but you're right that at the moment I don't have any damning evidence there other than the likelihood of there having been a rich traitor.

Torgo. Still.

My candidates for a scan would be the consuls and tribune. If they're bad we're screwed.

Current candidates for arrest would be Tyrith and CW (I don't understand the lawyer capability that Ironhead pointed out yet).

Essentially, if you have the lawyer hired, you can appoint him as lawyer of the Senate and use him to prosecute instead of defense a traitor.

I suggest scanning Ardent and Kwhit or maybe CR. kwhit has been MIA and we need him on board to make the CR plan work, he is too rich. Ardent also being so rich and as the lawyer. CR because if he has the strongest good feel, so maybe just to try and make sure he is not bad. I don't know, I would probably go with Ardent. If Kwhit does not show up by deadline, I would go there.

Actually DC, are you saying that you have a scan left over from yesterday? Or is is something that must be used at deadline today?

Jesus, how bad is it that it's day seven and I don't understand how every role works yet.

I had been under the belief that if the lawyer is hired that you said he could not both scan and defend in the same turn and someone else (don't have time to look it up right now) said that they hired the lawyer and they could do both. Which is the main basis of my suspicion toward you because up to now I've leaned towards you being good.

Am I wrong in my understanding? Also, if I understand what you're saying above, a lawyer can prosecute OR defend depending on who hired him? So a Tarq would be interested in hiring the lawyer in order to prosecute an innocent person in jail?

To recap on how the lawyer worked when I had him (and bear in mind, I was in jail the day I had him)

- May use to defend yourself at the prison trial.
- May use in pending lawsuits.
- Will get 1 scan of person.

OR

- May appoint for the Senate and prosecute instead of defend.
- Will get 1 scan of person

From what I understand, the italicized part is the point of contention. Anxiety said it was an either/or on that part. That part was not clarified to me when I had the lawyer, and I didn't bother asking, 'cause obviously I wasn't gonna prosecute myself.

So, she should be able to defend herself with the lawyer and get a scan as well as use the lawyer in pending law suits. Right?

I was able to do that, yes. I see no reason why she couldn't do that.

Yes, due today.

Vote Both Innocent

Basketball game tonight, not gonna be around.

I still think DT and AE are our traitors. Likely there's at least one more left aside from those two, but I've said I don't trust them from early on, and I still don't. Dodgerchick... I'm just not sure. Not gonna go along with the pack on this one. Barkeep, I still think highly of, and believe he was simply a victim of horrible timing/luck.

I had to re-read my PM. The first time I got Ardent (who was #2 at the time), I could have prosecuted Coffee Warlord on behalf of the senate or had someone scanned. I chose not to prosecute Coffee Warlord and decided to have Ardent investigate AlanT.

So basically what CW is saying is right, except I'm not sure about the use in pending lawsuits because if that was the case, I should have won my lawsuit against Imthecrew because I had Ardent at the time.

I don't think you can vote innocent for both.

Blegh.

Lesser of two evils, then.

Vote Execute Dodgerus Chickus

Sorry DC, I trust Barkeep more than I trust you.

I swear the more I read this the more I'm wondering if there are no Tarqs... I mean what IF the whole purpose of this game is to become the wealthiest person/s in the Republic.

Dunno I'm so confused :confused:

All right, I'm wiating to hear from Ironus Headus about what Senator he plans to arrest tonight, or at least a list so I can make sure we don't duplicate.

Dang I just can't keep up. It's work, sleep, kids, and housework, not much else... no more ww games while I'm employed I just can't hack it all. It's almost stressful to play and it shouldn't because it's just a game. But on a personal note, we have to get our son evaluated for autism so that has been on my mind as well and that's why I've been overly sensitive.

Anyway, I guess I need to vote. Obviously I'm gonna vote myself innocent but if I understand the rules, then by hiring Ardent then I should be able to be a free woman... err, man I guess.

vote dodgerchick innocent
vote bk guilty

Can I sue while in jail I don't even know... if someone can answer that I'd appreciate it. I'm off for a few hours.

Autumn - I just got home from work. Going to grab something to eat while scanning through what I have missed.

Like CW, I really, really hate this choice. DC just seems to be acting like DC. BK doesn't really have any evidence against him....aw, damnit.

Wanna bet? :)

DC, would you scan Kwhit? Blast, she's already gone.

I'm finding it strangely suspicious Kwhit is nowhere to be found at a critical point. I know he visited another board earlier today.

Not that I'm stalking or metagaming, I'm just saying...

[quote=Autumn;1443942
Pretending to use the lawyer, but actually bidding on other services would be a devious traitor route to go, certainly. But if so, why scan and confirm loyalty for three people who actually are loyal? Woudln't it be much smarter to cast doubt on some loyal people and confuse us, or confirm some traitors as loyal? That seems too ridiculous a move by a wolf to believe.
[/QUOTE]
Every wolf can act as the seer since they know who the other bad guys are. Giving out information clearing others builds trust from those others since they know that they are indeed innocent. I think you'll find many veterans having used this ploy in the past, I know I have, when wolves. DC might not be an experienced wolf, but she is an experienced player. When I started playing I was a wolf nearly every time. When I started becoming a villager, my play was still very wolfish leading me to get killed early on in a lot of games. I see no reason to think that her first time as a wolf wouldn't be very close to how she is as a villager, considering all of her villager experience.

If reports are to be believed, we've scanned KWhit TWICE now.

Clear someone else.

Working a conspiracy theory angle, this could make kwhit, anxiety, and CW all look bad.

They've all vouched for each other.

I actually think the fact that we never had a publicly announced victory condition lends some credence to the idea that killing all of the Tarqs isn't the real victory condition and is perhaps indeed something to do with money.

Right, and at this point in my conspiracy theory I'm not sure I believe either of you.

I agree the mechanics of the game are unfortunate. It was why I was hoping Peregrine, who hasn't even been around today, would rethink his choice to arrest me.

VOTE EXECUTE DC

At this point, she seems stressed enough that she could have had that kind of an outburst and not necessarily be good. Really...the lesser of two evils, but I can't let me out of game feelings interfere with what I feel is more likely to be the correct choice right now.

Stalker. ;)

I understand using that deception to build trust. But it seems this would be taking it excessively far. Why give an accurate read on three people? Seems like a huge wasted opportunity to create some confusion or dissent.

DOLA -- This is a case where one candidate is better than none. If we have just one person we're able to more easily free or kill that person. In this way we're forced to kill and free someone. This was not how I anticipated the dynamic playing out.

I believe that Senator Peregrinus was poisoned in his sleep last night, didn't you hear?

Wow was my dola interrupted.

Oh yeah. Forgot. I maintain the idea though that he hasn't been around :). You've just kind of excused his absence.

Autumn and Ironhead:

I hope you've read what I've posted in the last few minutes. I think I *might* be on to something here.

Except look at the confusion and dissent we have. Being honest, while undermining the villagers cause (by not taking out of play some of the more powerful bad guy powers) seems like a great way to build trust. I mean doesn't it figure that one of the richest people to start with was a bad guy?

He can take blame from beyond the grave.

I should add while I felt real good about DC as a bad guy at the start of the day my enthusiasm for her has waned, but I still think a better case can be made for her being a bad guy than me (obviously).

I agree, Ardentus. Those three have created a bit of a self-congratulatory circle there, and if one of them is not to be trusted we have to worry about all of them.

To me, it just seems like Kwhit had an important role in what had to happen yesterday, and he hasn't shown to report it.

I could understand if he had something keeping him from coming in, but I just happened to see him at the MP FOF league forums. I wasn't looking for him specifically, as I had MP leagues on my mind at the time, but found it odd to see him there and not here.

I'm going to go eat. I'll be after that to check in.

Looking at the last time he's logged in, he had an opportunity to let us know then as well.

Yeah, but doesn't there have to be a point if someone is cleared twice we need to just accept that and try and get a read on someone else? If we're not going to trust the scan results the only way we're gonna clear anyone is after they're thrown off the friggin' rock.

I'm for clearing different people, whatever that's worth. I do not see how multiple scans help us.