3rd and negative 8!!! hahahahahaha BRILLIANT

Yes I have to admit that that is the best video that they released. I don't know if that is saying much considering what we had to compare it too, but I did like this movie. I also looked at some old threads with pics of the player editor and that looked nice as well.

If he didn't start off on the wrong foot, I would still be looking somewhat forward to this game, but with the $40 price tag, I don't know. The actual gameplay (no on-side kicks, amateur draft, financial model, salary cap or trading) leaves some things to be desired. If he implements this stuff on his next version, I would be taking a more serious look at this.

Beautiful! :D

The more beer you drink, the more ingenious this thread becomes.

Thanks! I've got to acknowledge Bee, whose post inspired me to pen the ditty. I don't have the lyrical stylings of Ant, so it'll just have to be in the written form for me.

That seriously took like 3 years and 1.2 common law wives to make.

:(

Ok, I've got another one. This is to the tune of "Trouble Me" by 10,000 Maniacs:

Debug me,
program me with all your AI and your leagues.
Debug me on the days when you feel like it.
Why let your tight end run
underneath this blitz when my blocking
is teleporting and wrong?
Debug me.

Write back to me,
don't mislead me,
the posts I read means a delay is swelling;
there's no telling where a release cycle starts or how it ends.
Speak to me,
why are you building this story of a final gold master to placate me
when your silence is my greatest fear?
Why let your tight end run
underneath this blitz when my blocking
is teleporting and wrong?
Rewrite me.

Let me have a look inside these plays while I'm learning.
Please don't hide them just because of fears.
Let me send you off to code with a
"There, there, now stop the FOFC from trolling."
Let me know where the bug is and how to heal.

Spare me? Except for onsides kicks and fake punting.
Debug me, 2nd and 10s turn into 5th and thirties.
Speak to me and let the AI handle options, which is the norm.
Lastly, program in the rouge and 12 men.
There's more, customobility, than my sweet friend, you can see.
Maximum Football is what I'm offering
if you Debug me.

thanks cartman, that was beautiful. :D

Brought a tear to my eye...

What scares me is everytime someone asks about something like the option, fake kicks, onside kicks, etc...they say it "breaks the AI". I'd be afraid to even create a play that doesn't ship with the game if the AI is that fragile...

Can you customize the position names?

"Centre"

You do realize that the plays that the game ships with break the AI, right? Their response when I pointed this out (due to over 350 rushing yards in one game and over 400 passing yards in another game), was that gamers can create their own custom playbooks to keep this from happening.

I wonder how much work it would be to create plays to fix the AI? :D

Looks like we'll get our first after action reports tommorrow.

Login	Message << Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Release Info - 3/3/2006 3:45:17 AM

Erik Rutins Administrator Posts: 6901 Joined: 3/28/2000 From: Vermont, USA Status: online

Ok, here's the update for today. We discussed and agreed that we should release tomorrow. Testing will continue until tomorrow morning to make sure nothing critical comes up. Tomorrow morning will be the final check and if all still looks good, we will release the game tomorrow afternoon. I will post again late tomorrow morning to confirm. Regards, - Erik _____________________________ Erik Rutins Director of Product Development and Business Relations

Even that sounds damn shaky to me. Why would you announce *anything* until it was up and ready for download?

I think at this point, they just want to release it and get it over with.

That's how it goes every time, d00d.

Actually, they were the ones changing my sig, I just kept changing it back.

can somebody put out 26 builds of a title? Perhaps my terms are wrong here. Jim released a version d and that has been the latest one. Can the MF guys go as high as z? would it go 1.0.z then up to 1.1, 1.1a...etc. Are there enough numbers for them to do this? ;)

Tomorrow morning's post:

Ok, the latest tests haven't turned up anything critical. It will be available for digital download later this afternoon. It's possible that we'll all go to a movie or something instead, in which case the game wouldn't be available until Monday. If that's the case, we'll probably do some further testing this weekend to ensure that next week's release goes smoothly.

SI's titles regularly goes up to huge number of 'builds' internally as do most games in development, this is simply because our build numbers update frequently for tracking purposes (ie. if our publishers testers report a bug we need to know which version of the game they've found it on).

PS> No idea why someone would go 'z' though 1.0.99 works fine for us internally and then we reset the number before release so people think we got it all right first time ;)
PPS> Also bear in mind that they might be using the letter to indicate something regarding the build, for instance our internal builds use the letter 'd' to indicate a debug build etc.

He forgot to say that "Gold Release Master Final Build" is short for Glorified Outstanding Legendary Debuting Reliable Emended Long-Lasting Efficient Animated Superb Endurable Maximized Arty Stable Technicolored Elevated Redone Finished Inincomplete Nifty Anticlimaxic Legalized Build.

I sincerely hope they release on a Friday. Anyone that works in software, or any business where you deliever products to a customer, knows that Friday is the absolute worst day you can deliver anything. Imagine how happy all the fanbois are going to be when they get thier hands on the game on Friday and then have to suffer all the bugs, issues, and problems for 3 full days before they can get any customer support.

LAWL

Is anyone else getting a sort of Rainman sense from the release announcements over there?

Yeaaah, Maximum Football...definitely coming out in February...yeaaah...definitely February... I'm an excellent developer... yeaaah...

FWIW, this thread now has more replies than any thread on the board not named Werewolf.

dola--

this has nothing to do with Maximum Football, but with people's buying habits generally. I just don't think like the guy quoted below. Even a Solecismic game, which I am 99.9% likely to buy, even if it for a sport I don't know--I'm gonna wait a week or two and let the first round of bugs surface. Then, after the first patch, I'll jump in. And this is for Jim, who I know will release a game with a minimum of bugs, who will fix his bugs, and who makes great games. I just see no value in starting to play with a game, knowing that there may be bugs that force me to restart careers, etc.

Jim still gets his money and I still get my game--just a week later than release date. But there are always people like this guy, for whom I am grateful, BTW, because without guys like him there would be no one to find the initial bugs.

RE: If nothing CRITICAL come up --- - 3/3/2006 2:23:50 PM
anash Matrix Recruit Posts: 4 Joined: 11/4/2001 Status: online	You are probably doing the right thing Elm but I am going to buy when I get home from work (if released) . It is not that much money, I am sure there will be fixes needed, but that is the same for all games. I just want to get my hands on the damn thing, and work with the community to start the add-ons. Plus, I am compulsive, and there is no way I can hold out all weekend if released today. You have more control than me if you do bro... Adg (in reply to elmerlee)
Report | Post #: 2

Page: [1]

Now that's one heck of a lurker!

To piggy-back on to what Marc said, I just noticed something about this my VS application at work. Since this is my first app using C# .NET, I saw the programmer's build at verions 1.0.2544.15444 (or something like that). The build incrementer is on, obviously, but I could not for the life of me how it incremeneted that high. Then I found the Assembly.cs file and just changed the release build line to 1.0.0.0 and that's the way it's going to remain for this first version.

The hits keep on coming. To the tune of Bohemian Rhapsody:

Is this a real game?
Or this it just fantasy-
Caught in a time warp-
Fanboys with no reality-
Open your eyes
Look up at the screencaps and see-

I’m just a fan boy,i need no FOFC-
Because I’m easy come,easy go,
A little high,little low,
Anyway the code goes,doesn’t really matter to me,
You'll see

Matrix,just killed the plan,
Found a bug or two in a thread,
Pulled the gold master,now it's dead,
Martix,preordering had just begun,
But now I’ve gone and thrown it all away-
Matrix ooo,
Fanboys aren't mean and make you cry-
If I’m not back with another gold this time tomorrow-
Carry on,carry on,as if nothing really matters-

Too late,my time has come,
Sends shivers down my spine-
Been developing this game since 1999,
Goodbye everybody-I’ve got to go-
Gotta leave you all behind and face the truth-
Matrix ooo- (any way the wind blows (even indoors))
I don’t want to lie,
I sometimes wish I’d never started this game at all-

I see a little silhouetto of a man,
Teleport, Teleport, the game is customizable-
Thunderbolt and lightning-It's not the Chargers logo, see
Football Pro,Football Pro,
Football Pro, Football Pro
Football Pro, It was from Sierra 7 years ago
But I’m just a coder and nobody loves me-
He’s just a coder with a fanboy family-
Spare him his life from this monstrosity-
Easy come easy go-,will you let me go-
No option! no-,we will not let you go-let him go-
Moving first downs! we will not let you go-let him go
No onsides! we will not let you go-let me go
Will not let you go-let me go
Will not let you go let me go
No,no,no,no,no,no,no-
Matrix please,Matrix please,Matrix please let me go-
The trollers have a special post put aside for me,for me,for me-

So you think you can mock me and make comments on the sly-
So you think you can troll here and bother Erik the moderator guy -
Oh maybe-you have found a lot of bugs lately-
Just gotta get out-just gotta the new gold master outta here-

Nothing really matters,
Bugs don't bother me,
Nothing really matters-, execpt Maximum Customobility,

Any way the wind blows....
(even indoors) fade to gong

IIRC, it's something like:

1.0.[date].[time]

Where date is the number of days since 1/1/2001 and time is number of seconds since midnight, divided by 2. Don't ask me why they divided by two. :-)

'cause each piece goes in a signed 16-bit integer, and 24 hours * 60 minutes in an hour * 60 seconds in a minute = 50400 > 32768

That would be correct.

Shoulda just made it 32-bit. ;)

Oh boy. Things may get exciting in this thread again, with a release now promised this afternoon.

Though Daivd warns that there will be bugs.

Sounds like release is imminent.

Yeah, yeah. I know.

But they really mean it this time! Seriously.

RE: Release Info - 3/3/2006 1:14:51 PM
David Winter Matrix Elite Guard Posts: 608 Joined: 11/23/2004 From: Vancouver, BC Status: online	All. With the release looking like it's going to happen soon I wanted to take the time to post what the next steps will be and to cover some much needed thank you notes. Hopefully this won't sound too much like an Academy Award speech. Thank you.. First of all I would like to thank all the folks that have shown interest in the project and have supported it. This means you, the reader. It has been a very long and twisty road to this point. It sort of breaks down like this; About 6 calendar years. About 3 man years spread over those 6 years. 2 different full time jobs. + 1 wife. And countless bumps and bruises along the way. I would like to thank the nay-sayers as well because in a somewhat sadistic sense, it’s was the constant "This can't be done" that actually kept driving me on to prove otherwise. I would like to thank David Heath, and Erik Rutins at Matrix especially. They've put in as many long hours as I have in the past few weeks and never gave up on the project. Todd (Marauders) should also get a mention because he came on to the BETA program too late to get his name in the credits. But he's been a great help and deserves credit for his assistance. And last, but certainly not least, I obviously need to thank my wife too because she's been putting up with this for going on two years now :) I'm sure at times she's wondered who the scruffy looking stranger was wandering to the bathroom... Next Steps.. I'll make no bones about it; you will find bugs. It is an unfortunate fact considering a lone developer and a project of this scope. Some we know about, others will be a surprise to us. No amount of testing by part time BETA testers is going to catch everything (I've found bugs 5 minutes into playing games that got past 60 full time QA people). Matrix and I are confident though that nothing we know about should detract from your overall enjoyment of the game. We feel that the majority of them are a minor nuisance at most and I'll be addressing those in the coming weeks. Any major items (crashes & lock ups for example) that crop up are definately things we didn't know about and will be addressed ASAP and a new build made available. I do ask however that people keep in mind this is not my day job and if something like that isn't fixed that very moment, I hope you will understand. I have not discussed the details yet with Matrix, but my high level understanding is that Matrix staff will be dealing directly with any hardware related issues you have playing the game. Low frame rates, sound driver problems, etc.. All fall into the PC hardware category and they'll be working with you to get those resolved or to provide suggestions to you. My priority will be addressing in game questions and issues. As I have said in the past, this game will evolve. If there is a feature that is not in the first release it's ~possible~ it may find its way going into updates in the future. I do have a short list of major and minor features I want to put into the game. What may seem like trivial things to do often turn out to be quite in-depth and high risk. So I think that's about it. I have always understood that this game isn't going to be everything to everyone, but hopefully people will find the game enjoyable in its own right. David Winter Developer -------------------------------------------------------- (in reply to Shaggyra)
Report | Post #: 7

RE: Release Info - 3/3/2006 1:59:37 PM Erik Rutins Administrator Posts: 6911 Joined: 3/28/2000 From: Vermont, USA Status: online ...and in case that wasn't clear, we are releasing today. I'm just finishing things up with the online store, we should be live for sale later this afternoon. Regards, - Erik _____________________________ Erik Rutins Director of Product Development and Business Relations

RE: Release Info - 3/3/2006 6:14:51 PM
David Winter Matrix Elite Guard Posts: 608 Joined: 11/23/2004 From: Vancouver, BC Status: online	All. With the release looking like it's going to happen soon I wanted to take the time to post what the next steps will be and to cover some much needed thank you notes. Hopefully this won't sound too much like an Academy Award speech. Thank you.. First of all I would like to thank all the folks that have shown interest in the project and have supported it. This means you, the reader. It has been a very long and twisty road to this point. It sort of breaks down like this; About 6 calendar years. About 3 man years spread over those 6 years. 2 different full time jobs. + 1 wife. And countless bumps and bruises along the way. I would like to thank the nay-sayers as well because in a somewhat sadistic sense, it’s was the constant "This can't be done" that actually kept driving me on to prove otherwise. I would like to thank David Heath, and Erik Rutins at Matrix especially. They've put in as many long hours as I have in the past few weeks and never gave up on the project. Todd (Marauders) should also get a mention because he came on to the BETA program too late to get his name in the credits. But he's been a great help and deserves credit for his assistance. And last, but certainly not least, I obviously need to thank my wife too because she's been putting up with this for going on two years now :) I'm sure at times she's wondered who the scruffy looking stranger was wandering to the bathroom... Next Steps.. I'll make no bones about it; you will find bugs. It is an unfortunate fact considering a lone developer and a project of this scope. Some we know about, others will be a surprise to us. No amount of testing by part time BETA testers is going to catch everything (I've found bugs 5 minutes into playing games that got past 60 full time QA people). Matrix and I are confident though that nothing we know about should detract from your overall enjoyment of the game. We feel that the majority of them are a minor nuisance at most and I'll be addressing those in the coming weeks. Any major items (crashes & lock ups for example) that crop up are definately things we didn't know about and will be addressed ASAP and a new build made available. I do ask however that people keep in mind this is not my day job and if something like that isn't fixed that very moment, I hope you will understand. I have not discussed the details yet with Matrix, but my high level understanding is that Matrix staff will be dealing directly with any hardware related issues you have playing the game. Low frame rates, sound driver problems, etc.. All fall into the PC hardware category and they'll be working with you to get those resolved or to provide suggestions to you. My priority will be addressing in game questions and issues. As I have said in the past, this game will evolve. If there is a feature that is not in the first release it's ~possible~ it may find its way going into updates in the future. I do have a short list of major and minor features I want to put into the game. What may seem like trivial things to do often turn out to be quite in-depth and high risk. So I think that's about it. I have always understood that this game isn't going to be everything to everyone, but hopefully people will find the game enjoyable in its own right. David Winter Developer -------------------------------------------------------- (in reply to Shaggyra)
Report | Post #: 7

RE: Release Info - 3/3/2006 6:59:37 PM Erik Rutins Administrator Posts: 6911 Joined: 3/28/2000 From: Vermont, USA Status: online ...and in case that wasn't clear, we are releasing today. I'm just finishing things up with the online store, we should be live for sale later this afternoon. Regards, - Erik _____________________________ Erik Rutins Director of Product Development and Business Relations (in reply to David Winter) Report | Post #: 8

It sounds like an August 2008 release is now a distinct possibility!

dola--

dang speedy KWhit.

But I like my throwaway joke a little better than his :-)

Man, I hear that, and all I can think of is the trailer for Saw 2.

Oh yes.... There will be bugs.

See, we REALLY need to get Sui out of the box now so that he can let us know how it plays...

Again with the "this isn't my day job so don't expect fast bug fixes" stuff. Well, what the fuck are you charging for then?

So make it happen...

Or have him report to FOFD...

Oh, and I am the only one thinking that he is begging trouble by giving his "I'd like to thank all the little people" speech before the game is actually available for download?

Hell ya. I am getting an uneasy feeling about this. I am not sure how well he will be able to handle reported bugs since he is already defending the fact that some will exist and admitted that he caught many that the beta-testers didn't catch.

Or at the GEFL board. :cool:

Probably far from it.

Sounded like "Gang, it's going to suck but what do you expect from a one man team. Fork over 40 bucks because we try hard."

So they are releasing a game with known bugs AFTER the football season and AFTER 6 years of development? That looks promising...

Not that the whole thing isn't mind-boggling already, but this statement reveals a very unprofessional attitude from both David and Matrix Games. For the love of God, you're releasing a game and you don't even know who's going to handle the support issues? And from the Matrix side, you'd think an immediate response would be forthcoming clarifying what the situation is.

I guess they're assuming there'll be no issues. Or perhaps they're planning to make the download available and run for the doors for a long weekend. Regardless of the disaster that Maximum Football may be, Matrix is getting dragged through the mud pretty well...

Now, now. Let's not be overly critical.... Yet.

I'm trying to keep an open mind and a wait and see approach.

(Not that I'm buying the game, mind you, but I will be reading the game impressions with as open a mind as I can).

That occurred to me too. How could they not have worked that out already?

BTW, I love this line...

Translation: Most of the bugs will just annoy you, but some are going to destroy your hard drive.

Let's cut them some slack, it's not like they had all decade to iron out the small details.

Like how long is the development cycle for a patch?

That's exactly how it sounds...I don't think I've ever seen anyone release a game with that kind of attitude. I've seen some developers say the graphics aren't that great but the gameplay makes up for it or something along those lines...but nothing like what he's saying.

Actual years or man years?

I don't see why we're making a big deal about David saying the game will have bugs. Every piece of software ever released and will be released has or will have bugs in it. They range from a wide variety of things. He shouldn't be making an excuse for them by reminding us for the 100th time that this isn't his full time job. It's a part of software development, period. It strikes me that he's a self proclaimed uber-developer yet he feels like he has to say this to the masses. I guess he didn't have bugs in his programs in high school.

I care about what the bugs are, not how many or if they even exist.

dog years...

FM

I was thinking that when I posted actually. And sadly, it's probably a more accurate timeline.

So, IF the game is release this afternoon, does anyone have a line of how long it will be until the following activities take place?

- First minor bug
- First showstopper
- First Run Time Error
- First "When is the patch coming out?" question
- First patch
- When the game will be taken off distribution for "retooling"

I'm thinking of parlaying my bet -- I'm guessing no more than a few hours, excluding a patch. Daivd will need time to get the box art back from the artest before the patch comes out.

All kidding aside, I wish them the best. I hope it's a success -- as has been said before, in the indie sport sim world, I think good sims are good for everybody.

All games have bugs, but if he's already making excuses for them, it doesn't bode well for the quality of the game.

Is anybody here buying it?

Ok...now I understand why they needed to hold off for a while. As you can see from this picture, they now have a first down marker. If you remember from the previous video, this never existed.




Besides that, I am morbidly interested to see how this turns out (and not from the fanboys). I hope to hear an honest review from any of the various gaming sites about this game and I am also curious to see how long it will be before he can issue a patch.

:: crickets ::

I doubt many here would buy it without strong reviews and a demo.

I will be. I get off work today at 6:30 MST. I'll purchase the game and will run it through some tests and post on it between 9 and 10 MST tonight.

Get your questions ready.

I have a question now...

If it kills your computer, do you have a second to post from?

:D

Yes. My first computer will be needing a reinstall of windows soon. If MF destroys it, it won't be a disaster.

is it out?

I plan on purchasing. Another football game in this genre and one that introduces 3d graphics to spreadsheet games deserves an honest shot.

ya lets cut them a break its not like kept the same spreadsheet design through 5-7 iterations. Same tired, staid boring look and feel.

Is #50 about to do dance routine?

Jb, is that you?

i wish them luck. yeah, we've had a lot of fun at their expense, but sincerely speaking i'm keeping my eye on it, especially after a first wave of patches (or two).

Those players look pretty small compared to the field. What am I thinking, its probably just a field customized to the width of 50 yards. (Or well defined little leaguers.)

On the most recent video posted, a TE blocks for his RB who is going to throw a pass, and the TE is not knocked on his ass. Progress, I say.

At $30, I'd give it a shot. At $40, not so much.

You forgot the "but amazingly addictive gameplay that has had me hooked for years" part.

I'd prefer if it introduced 3D graphics to the developer's spreadsheets, and not require me to create my own ... but let me know how it goes.

Troy,

Do you like throwing money away? :P

Actually, can it be as bad as BBMogul was last year?

Good point. At $40, I don't like the idea of trying to balance the game so that it will appear realistic. I don't like the fact there is no financial system. Onside kicks, fake field goals and fake punts are an odd thing to leave out.

With all that said, if he can prove that he can put out patches in a reasonable amount of time (2 - 3 weeks) and he place in major enhancements, I will seriously take it in consideration. If he just tells everyone that all of this is coming out in the next version, I am not even going to touch it.

As the developer has already stated, it's not this genre.

I don't believe there's even any comparison. At least BBM served some purpose (the entertainment factor of using the import function to introduce historic players).

This "effort" on the other hand ... well, at least we got a good thread out of it I guess.

Will this more than likely be the last game we ever see Daivd Winters put out?


Of course his next incarnation could be Waivd Dinters.

Not especially, but I see three options:

1) It'll be a great game out of the box (well worth the money)
2) It'll be so horrific out of the box that it'll be funny. (comedy value alone - worth the money)
3) It'll be mixed, with some really good things and some really bad things, and in that case, It'll probably go into my rotation of games just for kicks. It'd be fun to design some plays and screw around with different rules options. (in this case it won't be worth the money, but it'll give me 10-20 hours of play at least, which along with a review of the game will save it from being a total disaster)

It is now available on the online store at Matrix.

My opinion - too much money for what it offers.

They have 60 full time QA guys on it, so it shouldn't take long.

Will you be posting a First Impressions thread?

I just can't help but laugh whenever he says this (and he says it oftan). "project of this scope". What scope? Hardly any AI to speak of, the most basic career mode possible, the user still has to manually handle certain things (like picking the playoff teams at the end of the season), there is a total lack of financials, and that's not even getting to the arcade mode (lack of basic things like onside kicks, horrible animations, horrible physics, and probably many more things we haven't even seen yet).

"project of this scope"? There's hardly any scope there at all.

Well he was the lone developer...other than the "artest" who stole the logos.

Maybe that's the problem, maybe he wasn't aiming high enough.

What's really sad is, if it actually is released, then Bubba will have the last laugh on us.

It has been officially released and is now availible in the matrix store.

Back into the maelstrom. :D

I love the not so subtle dig at the beta testers. To me, it sounds like he is saying, "If I had more time, I would have caught all of the bugs that the 60 part-time beta-testers missed"

I doubt that he is trying to come off as an arrogant prick, but I have the feeling that this quality just comes out naturally with this guy.

How so? Bubba was swearing up and down that it was going to be released in like late January...

Allright Troy, do it to it!

Because it was released at all?

If one has not been started by the time I get into the game, I will start it. Again, it'll be between 9 and 10 MST before I'll have time to start going through the game.

Oh and congrats to David and Matrix games.

Your gutsiness is admiralbe, Troy. I'll trust you in being able to be objective about the product. That said, it's a wait and see issue for me due to the amateurism going on.

Of that thing I can assure everyone. I'm not just going to rip on the game for comedy purposes. I'm going to post my thoughts. Good, bad, ugly great, whatever the hell they are.

I'm also going to try to do it from a perspective that we have here. I've jotted down a list of questions for me to start. (these are mainly the type of questions I use in prepping a review)

1) How are the stats?
2) How is the AI?
3) How many times do I look at a result on the field and scream WTF?!?!?!?!
4) Does the play editor work, do the players do what I told them to do?

I'm not going to judge this thing on career mode. I know the game isn't going to meet my career sim needs. Nor am I going to care a great deal about the graphics. (Teleporting players are a problem though, if they are there, I will rip)

I think this is going to be a gigantic chunk of human waste. But I'll be more than happy to write that I'm an idiot and that I'm wrong.

Either way, after a game gets this many views, someone here has to bite the bullet. We have to see just how good/bad this sucker is. I expect a beer from each and every member who posted in this thread if I ever visit your city. :)

There's a six pack of Shiner Bock waiting for you in Austin!

Of what year?