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Lathum 06-03-2020 06:26 AM

Ted Cruz has become quite the boot licker. How anyone can be so supportive of Trump after the way Trump treated him is beyond me. My guess is Cruz is hoping Trump leaves office or bails on 2020 and by pandering to his base he gets the nomination.

Edward64 06-03-2020 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421 (Post 3284205)
For those who think they are racist, the argument would be that they single out the lives of one race over all others. Thus the counter mantra being "All Lives Matter". It's a dumb argument that looks ridiculously silly when you use the same logic on any other type of cause that focuses on a specific issue.


I certainly don't think BLM is racist.

ADL definition is "Racism is the belief that a particular race is superior or inferior to another, that a person’s social and moral traits are predetermined by his or her inborn biological characteristics".

I have not see anything that says BLM believes they are superior to others. They are definitely more focused on blacks but doesn't fit the definition IMO.

spleen1015 06-03-2020 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 3284214)
Ted Cruz has become quite the boot licker. How anyone can be so supportive of Trump after the way Trump treated him is beyond me. My guess is Cruz is hoping Trump leaves office or bails on 2020 and by pandering to his base he gets the nomination.


Just shows you the morals some of these guys have. Power before principals. If I ever meet him or Devin Nunes in person, I'm likely to kick them both in the throat.

Edward64 06-03-2020 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421 (Post 3284199)
Is he a racist? Take a look at the ADL definition of racism and let me know what you think.

How about we have a discussion. List the top 4 or 5 things you think he's done that make him a racist. What part of the ADL's definition do they fall under? How do they compare to comments from actual racists (KKK, BLM, etc,)

I think he falls just short of racist, but definitely has said some dumb things. Here's hoping he can get some help working on his communication skills. Maybe Obama could take the lead on that.


I actually would consider him racist based on the ADL definition. I don't track him so only read the wiki Steve King - Wikipedia

He's a nationalist (denies white nationalist) at the very least. He's anti-immigration. He's made insensitive remarks. He's supportive of racial profiling. Doesn't like affirmative action. Smeared Soros (plenty of people do but not primarily because he is Jewish). None of those IMO makes him a racist.

However, several quotes stick out that ties to the "superior" based on "biological characteristics".

Quote:

The contributions that were made by Western civilization itself, and by Americans, by Americans of all races, stand far above the rest of the world. The Western civilization and the American civilization are a superior culture.
Quote:

"We can't restore our civilization with somebody else's babies," referring to his views on ending birthright citizenship and promoting "an America that's just so homogenous that we look a lot [sic] the same."[9]

If I went deeper into other sources, I'll assume there are other quotes similar to above 2. So there's a preponderance of evidence that says he fits ADL definition of racist.

Just my 2c.

Lathum 06-03-2020 07:02 AM

:lol:

JPhillips 06-03-2020 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421 (Post 3284199)
Is he a racist? Take a look at the ADL definition of racism and let me know what you think.

How about we have a discussion. List the top 4 or 5 things you think he's done that make him a racist. What part of the ADL's definition do they fall under? How do they compare to comments from actual racists (KKK, BLM, etc,)

I think he falls just short of racist, but definitely has said some dumb things. Here's hoping he can get some help working on his communication skills. Maybe Obama could take the lead on that.


OMG

Noop 06-03-2020 07:24 AM

So for the election this year am I the only thinking Trump wins again?

Wouldn't it be ironic that Florida again has to do a recount again.

Crazy times.

albionmoonlight 06-03-2020 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg (Post 3284211)
You see, what you're doing is seeing an invisible "only" in front of "Black Lives Matter." The "only" is not there, and is not part of the movement. What is a part of the movement is the silent "too". It is not saying that their lives are more important at all. It is saying there lives should be equally important.


The analogy I heard was that if your family sits down to dinner, and your dad serves everyone's food, and he leaves your plate empty.

And you say, "Hey, I need some food." And he looks at you condescendingly and says, "Actually, we all need food."

larrymcg421 06-03-2020 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg (Post 3284211)
You see, what you're doing is seeing an invisible "only" in front of "Black Lives Matter." The "only" is not there, and is not part of the movement. What is a part of the movement is the silent "too". It is not saying that their lives are more important at all. It is saying there lives should be equally important.


That's not what I'm doing.

JPhillips 06-03-2020 07:52 AM

What's that old saying? Something like, when you're arguing over which chemical irritant you used to disperse the crowd so the President could have a photo op, you're losing.

Brian Swartz 06-03-2020 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421
For those who think they are racist, the argument would be that they single out the lives of one race over all others. Thus the counter mantra being "All Lives Matter". It's a dumb argument that looks ridiculously silly when you use the same logic on any other type of cause that focuses on a specific issue.


I don't think the BLM moniker is racist. Inflammatory, divisive, prejudiced, etc., but certainly not racist. Ask me if the group itself is racist and my answer is depends on who you are talking about. A lot of the rhetoric is. Regular proclamations like 'White people be like ... ' and 'Watch Whiteness Work' declare the belief that problems stem not from specific actions or policies but from the very nature of being white. They're far more racist than, say, Trump's infamous screed about Mexican immigrants during the '16 campaign. But like any group, BLM isn't homogenous. Some just want justice. Many others carry it a lot further. So there's a lot of racism in BLM, and the acronym is by definition not a unifying one, but it's not inherently a racist organization.

albionmoonlight 06-03-2020 08:49 AM

https://twitter.com/gopchairwoman/st...303618048?s=21

And here I thought that liberals were the ones into participation trophies.

albionmoonlight 06-03-2020 08:57 AM

In hindsight, gassing a bunch of peacefully protesting Americans so that you could take audition photos for the Al Pacino role in Devils Advocate 2 might not have been the best PR move.

JPhillips 06-03-2020 09:05 AM

Trump is doing an interview on Fox radio and he claims that he went to the bunker only, "for an inspection."

lol

Edward64 06-03-2020 11:40 AM

Ah, to be a fly in the Oval Office listening to Trump rant. Looking forward to his reaction.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/polit...sts/index.html
Quote:

Secretary of Defense Mark Esper said Wednesday that he does not support using active duty troops to quell the large-scale protests across the United States triggered by the death of George Floyd and those forces should only be used in a law enforcement role as a last resort, comments that came after President Donald Trump recently threatened to deploy the military to enforce order.

Esper's attempt to distance himself from Trump's view on using the military to restore order went over poorly at the White House, where he was already viewed to be on shaky ground, multiple people familiar with the matter said.
"The option to use active duty forces in a law enforcement role should only be used as a matter of last resort, and only in the most urgent and dire of situations. We are not in one of those situations now. I do not support invoking the Insurrection Act," Esper said during a briefing at the Pentagon.

GrantDawg 06-03-2020 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3284267)
Trump is doing an interview on Fox radio and he claims that he went to the bunker only, "for an inspection."

lol

It is sad how easy it is to get under his skin. Anything that exposes what a weak man he is just sends him loopy.

Butter 06-03-2020 12:00 PM

Were they also inspecting all the light switches to make sure "off" worked?

booradley 06-03-2020 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3284266)
In hindsight, gassing a bunch of peacefully protesting Americans so that you could take audition photos for the Al Pacino role in Devils Advocate 2 might not have been the best PR move.


Or in foresight. The whole thing smacks of "Make way for the king!" Sheer arrogance at a time when Don needs to be the exact opposite of that.

bronconick 06-03-2020 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3284293)
Ah, to be a fly in the Oval Office listening to Trump rant. Looking forward to his reaction.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/polit...sts/index.html


So, who's the next temporary SecDEF when Trump's hissy fit for disagreeing gets Esper fired?

Edward64 06-03-2020 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronconick (Post 3284314)
So, who's the next temporary SecDEF when Trump's hissy fit for disagreeing gets Esper fired?


Dunno. I'm just glad someone has the backbone to stand up to him on this.

In the back of my mind, I wonder if Esper order it, would the Joint Chiefs comply. It won't be good for the country but almost want to see what happens.

JPhillips 06-03-2020 01:09 PM

According to RCP, after today's poll Trump has a 2.2% average lead...

in Texas.

I don't expect Biden to even compete in TX, but that's a brutal number for Trump.

Atocep 06-03-2020 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3284318)
According to RCP, after today's poll Trump has a 2.2% average lead...

in Texas.

I don't expect Biden to even compete in TX, but that's a brutal number for Trump.


I expect some Austin and San Antonio polling locations to close because of this.

bhlloy 06-03-2020 01:14 PM

Can we please remember in all the glee to throw poll numbers out this time around that social desirability is a thing, especially when the country is on fire and admitting you are going to vote for Trump is basically seen as telling a stranger you are a bad person, especially right now?

Atocep 06-03-2020 01:19 PM

Shy Trump voters never has been a thing. I don't know why it would start now.

bhlloy 06-03-2020 01:34 PM

His base maybe, but his base isn’t what’s important. I don’t know how you don’t look at the polls last time around and think there weren’t a number of factors at play.

But hey, I can’t wait for the next 5 months of smug poll articles and social media posts and then waking up one morning and wondering what the fuck just happened. Again.

Atocep 06-03-2020 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhlloy (Post 3284324)
His base maybe, but his base isn’t what’s important. I don’t know how you don’t look at the polls last time around and think there weren’t a number of factors at play.

But hey, I can’t wait for the next 5 months of smug poll articles and social media posts and then waking up one morning and wondering what the fuck just happened. Again.


The primary factors in play in 2016 were a motivated GOP base that rallied behind Trump over the last month of the campaign and an unpopular Dem candidate that independents weren't willing to get behind in large enough numbers.

The first item is still going to be in play in November, but Trump is killing his chances with independents and moderates. He could very well still win, but it's likely going to be another electoral college win with a significant popular loss and his chances of losing by McCain levels are probably just as likely right now.

bhlloy 06-03-2020 01:57 PM

We think and hope he’s killing his chances with independents and moderates, but he is the same person he was last time around. And in my opinion those poll numbers from independents and moderates are not reliable, especially this far out and with all the outrage and shit burning down right now. People have an uncanny way of voting with their ultimate interest in the booth.

Hope you are right; but will also believe it when I see it and he’s leaving the White House.

Brian Swartz 06-03-2020 01:59 PM

Historically, we're at the point where polls start mattering roughly (actually about a month ago IIRC). But more important is the fact that every.single.election since '16 hasn't gone Trump's way. That's pre-pandemic, pre-riots. He could win, and we could also get visited by Martians today. Both are about the same likelihood.

larrymcg421 06-03-2020 02:04 PM

Well if we're talking about Texas, the polls actually underestimated Clinton. The final RCP average had Trump up by 11.7 and Trump ended up only winning by 9.0

Atocep 06-03-2020 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz (Post 3284329)
Historically, we're at the point where polls start mattering roughly (actually about a month ago IIRC). But more important is the fact that every.single.election since '16 hasn't gone Trump's way. That's pre-pandemic, pre-riots. He could win, and we could also get visited by Martians today. Both are about the same likelihood.


Agree

The only reason people are still giving Trump and chance is he's the incumbent and they expect him to try to steal the election somehow. If you look at mid-terms, special elections, and current polling for both the Presidency and generic congress (which is a good measure of current party support) the GOP and Trump really have nothing going for them at this point.

As I've mentioned in this thread, there's a reason McConnell and Graham are pressuring judges to retire. It's not because they expect Trump to win.

Kodos 06-03-2020 02:05 PM

I am definitely not counting my chickens yet, but I am hopeful these polls are right. I am hoping for a Godzilla-breathes-fire-down-Trump's-throat type of victory.

PilotMan 06-03-2020 02:06 PM

I'll believe it when I see it and I'll make no assumptions until it's over.

Kodos 06-03-2020 02:08 PM

And we may well be looking at a multiple days of waiting while the paper ballots are counted delay in determining a winner. But I sure hope not.

albionmoonlight 06-03-2020 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3284331)
As I've mentioned in this thread, there's a reason McConnell and Graham are pressuring judges to retire. It's not because they expect Trump to win.


It's also why the GOP isn't going to agree to another bill to prop up the economy. They want to get ahead of tanking it and blaming Biden. They don't think that Trump has enough of a chance that it is worth keeping things afloat to increase his chances of reelection.

And Trump is too stupid to realize that. And, even if someone came in with a picture book to explain it to him, he lacks the ability to get the GOP members in Congress to do what he wants.

albionmoonlight 06-03-2020 02:10 PM

dola:

All that said, I won't believe he is gone until he is gone.

Atocep 06-03-2020 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3284335)
It's also why the GOP isn't going to agree to another bill to prop up the economy. They want to get ahead of tanking it and blaming Biden. They don't think that Trump has enough of a chance that it is worth keeping things afloat to increase his chances of reelection.

And Trump is too stupid to realize that. And, even if someone came in with a picture book to explain it to him, he lacks the ability to get the GOP members in Congress to do what he wants.


I'm fairly certain if you offered McConnell and Graham control of Senate majority in November and Trump voted out of office they'd take it without hesitation. I think the GOP core understands that the best thing for the health of their party is for Trump to be a 1 term President and Biden is the perfect follow up as a moderate that's committed to not even running for a 2nd term.

The problem is they fear losing Senate and being pulled down with him. They need to walk a fine line between letting Trump sink enough to to lose, but not take the rest of the party with him because, given the choice, they'll take 4 more years of Trump over complete loss of power.

Ben E Lou 06-03-2020 05:20 PM

Mattis said he'd speak when the time was right.

It's right, and did he ever.

"In Union There Is Strength

I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled. The words “Equal Justice Under Law” are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.

When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.

We must reject any thinking of our cities as a “battlespace” that our uniformed military is called upon to “dominate.” At home, we should use our military only when requested to do so, on very rare occasions, by state governors. Militarizing our response, as we witnessed in Washington, D.C., sets up a conflict—a false conflict—between the military and civilian society. It erodes the moral ground that ensures a trusted bond between men and women in uniform and the society they are sworn to protect, and of which they themselves are a part. Keeping public order rests with civilian state and local leaders who best understand their communities and are answerable to them.

James Madison wrote in Federalist 14 that “America united with a handful of troops, or without a single soldier, exhibits a more forbidding posture to foreign ambition than America disunited, with a hundred thousand veterans ready for combat.” We do not need to militarize our response to protests. We need to unite around a common purpose. And it starts by guaranteeing that all of us are equal before the law.

Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that “The Nazi slogan for destroying us…was ‘Divide and Conquer.’ Our American answer is ‘In Union there is Strength.’” We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.

Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.

We can come through this trying time stronger, and with a renewed sense of purpose and respect for one another. The pandemic has shown us that it is not only our troops who are willing to offer the ultimate sacrifice for the safety of the community. Americans in hospitals, grocery stores, post offices, and elsewhere have put their lives on the line in order to serve their fellow citizens and their country. We know that we are better than the abuse of executive authority that we witnessed in Lafayette Park. We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution. At the same time, we must remember Lincoln’s “better angels,” and listen to them, as we work to unite.

Only by adopting a new path—which means, in truth, returning to the original path of our founding ideals—will we again be a country admired and respected at home and abroad.


James Mattis"
"

Atocep 06-03-2020 05:21 PM

Holy shit

ISiddiqui 06-03-2020 05:22 PM

Holy crap, what a statement!

Ben E Lou 06-03-2020 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3284358)
Holy shit

I rarely cuss, but with the wife and kids out of town at the beach, those were my exact words, out loud, in the empty house.

Atocep 06-03-2020 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou (Post 3284360)
I rarely cuss, but with the wife and kids out of town at the beach, those were my exact words, out loud, in the empty house.


I believe things like this do chip away at his base. I'd be surprised if it noticeably moved the needle, but every little bit helps and this is just one more thing that makes it more difficult to defend his actions. A tipping point for Trump would potentially be if George W were to endorse Biden. At the very least it'd be interesting to see how the current GOP establishment would try to reconcile it.

whomario 06-03-2020 05:42 PM

I like how i read his Wikipedia page (hey, ignorant german here ;) ) and find sth that works well against the backdrop of the video of those cops emptying protesters water bottles out of malice:

Quote:

In a 2003 PBS interview, Mattis recalled how his Marines followed advice from his chaplain on gaining the support of Iraqi citizens: "On the suggestion of my Catholic chaplain the Marines would take chilled drinking water in bottles and walk out amongst the protesters and hand it out. It is just hard to throw a rock at somebody who has given you a cold drink of water and it's 120 degrees outside."

https://twitter.com/Youngdaggerdrip/...93923317288961

Lathum 06-03-2020 05:54 PM

It's scathing to be sure but will never get to any of his followers, and won't matter if it does. I just went to Fox News website, you know, the ones who claim to be fair and balanced. Not on word of it.

Ironically enough Trump will likely tweet about it which may bring some eyeballs to it, but he is too stupid to comprehend it and lacks the attention span to even read it.

cuervo72 06-03-2020 05:56 PM

The more who speak out against him - especially those who have worked with him - the easier it becomes to peel people off.

PilotMan 06-03-2020 05:57 PM

It's about fucking time.

Ben E Lou 06-03-2020 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3284361)
I believe things like this do chip away at his base. I'd be surprised if it noticeably moved the needle, but every little bit helps and this is just one more thing that makes it more difficult to defend his actions. A tipping point for Trump would potentially be if George W were to endorse Biden. At the very least it'd be interesting to see how the current GOP establishment would try to reconcile it.

It’s not so much his base as the conservatives on the margin. I was third-party all the way in 2016, but a significant number of my close long-time friends were Trump nose-holders who still can’t stand Trump, but may vote for him. Hearing a respected conservative general publish some of the thoughts that they already had will no doubt move the needle a bit more. I doubt any of them will vote for Biden, but I could easily see more conservatives refusing to vote for Trump.

Edward64 06-03-2020 06:03 PM

This won't affect his 38-42% base. It may help with some undecided, independents.

I wonder if the ulterior motive is also to remind the Joint Chiefs of their duty to refuse an illegal order or maybe questionable order.

JPhillips 06-03-2020 06:05 PM

Again, the demographics mean he has to expand his voter base to win. This doesn't help.

PilotMan 06-03-2020 06:12 PM

Should trump be defeated in November, I do believe that he may go down as one of the 3 worst presidents of all time.

Ben E Lou 06-03-2020 06:15 PM

Just got this text from a friend. He’s not a serious studied Christian like those mentioned in my last post, but is a conservative former marine officer who has become increasingly hostile to Trumpism.

Quote:

There is a tenant of maneuver warfare, the doctrine of our Marine Corps and one which Gen Mattis has mastered, that prioritizes the MASSING of combat power at the decisive time and place where it will have the greatest effect on the enemy. In this way smaller forces can quickly divide and route much larger forces. THAT is what he's doing. Love this

Atocep 06-03-2020 06:33 PM

You can always assume that if Trump is accusing someone else of doing it then he's tried to do it himself.

Donald Trump appears to have committed felony voter fraud by registering under the wrong address in Florida.

and I know this initially looks like something that's incredibly nit-picky and no big deal but Florida has actually cracked down hard on others for doing the exact same thing:

Quote:

Under Florida law, providing false information on a voter registration form is a third-degree felony, punishable by five years in prison and a $5,000 fine. As the Washington Post notes, the state has previously targeted individuals for registering under the wrong address. In 2018, Deltona City Manager Jane Shang faced charges for listing City Hall as her residence to avoid disclosure of her home address. She ultimately avoided prison through a deferred prosecution agreement that included a hefty fine and community service. In 1993, a restaurateur was charged with voter fraud and jailed for registering under the wrong address.

thesloppy 06-03-2020 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou (Post 3284366)
I doubt any of them will vote for Biden, but I could easily see more conservatives refusing to vote for Trump.


Yeah, while I don't see any situation that causes much if any of Trump's base turning away from him to vote for somebody else I do think it's possible that vocal criticism from conservative corners could cause significant numbers of marginal Trump supporters get exhausted enough to simply not vote.

Brian Swartz 06-03-2020 06:58 PM

A major difference between this cycle and 2016 by the way that doesn't get enough play is the historically very high amount of late-breaking undecided vote last time around. I believe the undecided vote a month before the '16 election was nearly double what is now (less than 8%). The on-the-fence voters breaking for Trump can't save him when there aren't nearly as many of them.

JPhillips 06-03-2020 07:02 PM

And I'm pretty sure that generally undecideds break for the challenger rather than the incumbent.

JPhillips 06-03-2020 07:08 PM



This seems both really good and really bad. Good that Milley states these things, but bad that he felt the need to.

thesloppy 06-03-2020 07:14 PM

Saw that the sportsbooks have actually flipped over to favoring Biden (or any Dem nominee) for the first time FWIW.

JPhillips 06-03-2020 07:47 PM



These letters combined with the Esper remarks this morning really make me wonder what Trump has been saying and why the DoD is so nervous.

JPhillips 06-03-2020 07:49 PM

And this from the Commandant of the Marine Corps.

Quote:

ARLINGTON, Va. --
Marines and Sailors, last summer, in my planning guidance, I stated there is no place in our Corps for racists – whether their intolerance and prejudice be direct or indirect, intentional or unintentional. As a continuation of that declaration, in April, I addressed the removal of the Confederate battle flag from our bases, and explained my views behind that decision. I wrote, “Anything that divides us, anything that threatens team cohesion, must be addressed head-on.”

Current events are a stark reminder that it is not enough for us to remove symbols that cause division – rather, we also must strive to eliminate division itself. The trust Marines place in one another on a daily basis demands this. Only as a unified force, free from discrimination, racial inequality, and prejudice can we fully demonstrate our core values, and serve as the elite warfighting organization America requires and expects us to be.

To this end, Sergeant Major Black and I encourage commanders and leaders at all levels to have a conversation with their Marines and Sailors, and ask that in doing so, all actively listen. By listening, we learn, by learning, we change. The path to a more just and equal Marine Corps begins with these conversations.

miami_fan 06-03-2020 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3284378)


This seems both really good and really bad. Good that Milley states these things, but bad that he felt the need to.


He has a base as well. That base would want to hear his official position on the military topic of the day.

Atocep 06-03-2020 07:56 PM

We also received emails from the Secretary of the Army and Army Chief of staff today that were along the same lines.

Atocep 06-03-2020 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3284385)
These letters combined with the Esper remarks this morning really make me wonder what Trump has been saying and why the DoD is so nervous.


Trump reportedly threw out the idea of putting tanks in the streets.

Lathum 06-03-2020 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3284385)


These letters combined with the Esper remarks this morning really make me wonder what Trump has been saying and why the DoD is so nervous.


Are you saying you think trump is advocating for more force? Shootings? Drone strikes? etc...?

Atocep 06-03-2020 08:27 PM

Tom Cotton is really trying to position himself as the torch bearer for Trump 2024.

JPhillips 06-03-2020 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 3284391)
Are you saying you think trump is advocating for more force? Shootings? Drone strikes? etc...?


I have no idea, but something provoked the Sec of Defense, the CJSC, the ranking officer of the National Guard, the Commandant of the Marines, and Mattis to all issue unprecedented statements about the President and the armed forces respecting the ideas and laws of the U.S.

Ben E Lou 06-03-2020 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3284397)
I have no idea, but something provoked the Sec of Defense, the CJSC, the ranking officer of the National Guard, the Commandant of the Marines, and Mattis to all issue unprecedented statements about the President and the armed forces respecting the ideas and laws of the U.S.

My neighbor’s comment about Mattis and strategy wasn’t mere spitballing about the guy. He was a senior officer in the Corps, serving under Mattis’s command. After posting that, I walked the dog and ran into him. We talked for 20-30 minutes on the street. At one point I made a comment about how Trump was going to go ballistic. My friend responded with “oh, I’m certain Mattis knew exactly what he was doing with regard to that as well. Trump can’t play 4D chess, but Mattis can. He has a plan.”

thesloppy 06-03-2020 09:03 PM

At some point that Bolton book will also get cleared and added to the chorus....may have shot themselves in the foot by postponing that.

tarcone 06-03-2020 09:23 PM

This has to be Trumps worst nightmare. 2 emergencies to test his leadership. And he is failing miserably. He thinks tweets and photo ops will pull him through. Weak leadership is a bad deal at this point.

Atocep 06-03-2020 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou (Post 3284366)
It’s not so much his base as the conservatives on the margin. I was third-party all the way in 2016, but a significant number of my close long-time friends were Trump nose-holders who still can’t stand Trump, but may vote for him. Hearing a respected conservative general publish some of the thoughts that they already had will no doubt move the needle a bit more. I doubt any of them will vote for Biden, but I could easily see more conservatives refusing to vote for Trump.


Just judging by a quick trip through some of the Conservative spots on reddit this really seems to have had a more of an impact that I expected. Not necessarily a tsunami or anything, but it definitely has some conservatives reevaluating Trump.

None seem to be ready to vote for Biden, but they're wishing there was some republican option other than Trump.

Thomkal 06-03-2020 10:00 PM

Anderson Cooper: “Given his bone spurs, it must have been very painful to have been rushed down to his bunker.”

Atocep 06-03-2020 10:52 PM

Trump takes credit for the Mad Dog nickname.


PilotMan 06-03-2020 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3284410)
Trump takes credit for the Mad Dog nickname.



....and Mattis hated it.

RainMaker 06-03-2020 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodos (Post 3284332)
I am definitely not counting my chickens yet, but I am hopeful these polls are right. I am hoping for a Godzilla-breathes-fire-down-Trump's-throat type of victory.


Him turning full fascist seems to be the response to internal polls. He has to know he is in deep trouble and we are going to see some scary stuff as he continues to head toward a large defeat.

RainMaker 06-03-2020 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3284361)
I believe things like this do chip away at his base. I'd be surprised if it noticeably moved the needle, but every little bit helps and this is just one more thing that makes it more difficult to defend his actions. A tipping point for Trump would potentially be if George W were to endorse Biden. At the very least it'd be interesting to see how the current GOP establishment would try to reconcile it.


I don't think his base is going anywhere. Theh have lifted him up to cult status. They never cared about the military either.

What this may do is motivate independents and people in the suburbs. His base hasn't moved and he is pushing hard right to appease their authoritarian leanings.

Flasch186 06-04-2020 07:16 AM

Timing-wise this all may be happening too early considering how far November is. If the election were Tuesday he would lose in a landslide.

sterlingice 06-04-2020 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flasch186 (Post 3284433)
Timing-wise this all may be happening too early considering how far November is. If the election were Tuesday he would lose in a landslide.


And, in the back of my mind (in a small part but it's still there and also at odds with my thought of how often Trump can/will play a chess vs checkers), I've wondered if this is a dress rehearsal for November

SI

tarcone 06-04-2020 07:42 AM

November is a long ways away. There could be a suspension of the election due to another outbreak of something.

Do not put it past Trump to create something that allows him to stay in power.

kingfc22 06-04-2020 08:03 AM

Bunker boy is now building his wall

Edward64 06-04-2020 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flasch186 (Post 3284433)
Timing-wise this all may be happening too early considering how far November is. If the election were Tuesday he would lose in a landslide.


I agree with this and the economy is rebounding so that's always a key factor. And there could always be a Hillary-like Oct surprise.

BYU 14 06-04-2020 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone (Post 3284435)
November is a long ways away. There could be a suspension of the election due to another outbreak of something.

Do not put it past Trump to create something that allows him to stay in power.


It would not shock me at all, but how does the circumvent the law requiring a new President to be in place on January 21st of next year. I don't see any path to getting around that and the absolute chaos it would cause even trying.

I will have to look for the exact specifics, but there is a plan of succession in place to transfer power if there is an issue with having the election.

cartman 06-04-2020 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3284438)
and the economy is rebounding so that's always a key factor.


The stock markets are not the economy. GDP is still shrinking and unemployment numbers are still on the meteoric rise.

Edward64 06-04-2020 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman (Post 3284450)
The stock markets are not the economy. GDP is still shrinking and unemployment numbers are still on the meteoric rise.


You are right.

I do think there is a good chance that economy will be noticeably rebounding as we get closer to Nov but maybe not enough (and maybe a second shock with a second wave).

Kodos 06-04-2020 11:12 AM

The stock market is being propped up by the Fed.

Swaggs 06-04-2020 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3284454)
You are right.

I do think there is a good chance that economy will be noticeably rebounding as we get closer to Nov but maybe not enough (and maybe a second shock with a second wave).


Sincere question: Based on what?

My thoughts are that we are only doing 'this well' because we just put $3.2-trillion into the economy AND a lot of folks/businesses have not paid their first sets of quarterly taxes in 2020 (more income available to spend now, less later/less collected by governments).

We have close to 20% unemployment, very low consumer confidence, lots of questions about imports/exports (long term supply chain), and the continued unease about the pandemic. I don't see a reason to believe the economy is going to noticeably rebound for quite some time. I feel reallly strongly that we are looking more at years than months before we get back to a decent level of unemployment and consumer confidence.

JPhillips 06-04-2020 11:33 AM

In a month, state and local governments will start making cuts. In two months the enhanced unemployment benefits go away. If things aren't substantially better very quickly, there will be a lot of pain heading into the fall.

albionmoonlight 06-04-2020 11:36 AM

One would also have to think that the escalation of partisan tension related to the protests have made the chances of Congress passing another major relief package less likely.

JPhillips 06-04-2020 11:43 AM



Profiles in Courage, this is not.

JPhillips 06-04-2020 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3284466)
One would also have to think that the escalation of partisan tension related to the protests have made the chances of Congress passing another major relief package less likely.


Yeah, and it doesn't help that most of the legislature isn't in D.C.

PilotMan 06-04-2020 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3284468)


Profiles in Courage, this is not.


Murkowski can rightly fuck off. I think we've already had enough of her 'brave leadership' that we can handle.

Kodos 06-04-2020 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingfc22 (Post 3284437)
Bunker boy is now building his wall


I think everyone should call him Bunker Boy. Bunker Boy and Moscow Mitch.

Edward64 06-04-2020 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs (Post 3284462)
Sincere question: Based on what?

My thoughts are that we are only doing 'this well' because we just put $3.2-trillion into the economy AND a lot of folks/businesses have not paid their first sets of quarterly taxes in 2020 (more income available to spend now, less later/less collected by governments).

We have close to 20% unemployment, very low consumer confidence, lots of questions about imports/exports (long term supply chain), and the continued unease about the pandemic. I don't see a reason to believe the economy is going to noticeably rebound for quite some time. I feel reallly strongly that we are looking more at years than months before we get back to a decent level of unemployment and consumer confidence.


Regarding my comment on "good chance that economy will be noticeably rebounding as we get closer to Nov", the stock market is a leading indicator of the economy.

It's not the only one, may not be the most important one, but it is one. However, arguably it is in an "irrational exuberance" state right now.

With that said, I don't think you can toss away stock market progress as a "valid" leading indicator during these times. I would assume (and hope) the stock market analysts and Fund managers are doing their due diligence in talking with CEOs, talking with companies' supply chain folks, reading the Fed etc. in addition to watching unemployment, consumer confidence, risk of China, risk of second wave etc.

Edward64 06-04-2020 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3284466)
One would also have to think that the escalation of partisan tension related to the protests have made the chances of Congress passing another major relief package less likely.


It's election year. I got to believe the chance is high there will be one more relief package.

Edward64 06-04-2020 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodos (Post 3284478)
I think everyone should call him Bunker Boy. Bunker Boy and Moscow Mitch.


Much better than President Tweety but IMO not quite right yet.

larrymcg421 06-04-2020 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BYU 14 (Post 3284448)
It would not shock me at all, but how does the circumvent the law requiring a new President to be in place on January 21st of next year. I don't see any path to getting around that and the absolute chaos it would cause even trying.

I will have to look for the exact specifics, but there is a plan of succession in place to transfer power if there is an issue with having the election.


If the election were suspended, then Pelosi is no longer Speaker because her term ends on January 3rd. However, the President Pro Tempore is Chuck Grassley and he'll only be 2 years into a 6 year term, so he'd be President on January 21.

Brian Swartz 06-04-2020 01:05 PM

Perhaps draw some inspiration from this?

Vote Him Away (The Liar Tweets Tonight) - YouTube

Flasch186 06-04-2020 02:35 PM

I said it before, the Murkowski, Susan Collins ilk are so full of shit its boggling. They feign concern but do nothing rinse and repeat.

Side bar... I've read that the GOP, through calculations will determine whether or not they feel like they'll lose bigly in November within the next few months. If they come to that conclusion they will tack to the fiscal tightening side of their faux-platform and squeeze hard on the economy so that the next Democratic president resides over a terrible recession/depression so that they can then blame them for the economy and hope that it will be a one term president.

Always a con.

Kodos 06-04-2020 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3284484)
Much better than President Tweety but IMO not quite right yet.


No, Bunker Boy is perfect because it highlights Trump's cowardly nature and he will be driven insane because he doesn't want people to know that he is in fact a total coward.

albionmoonlight 06-04-2020 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flasch186 (Post 3284534)
I said it before, the Murkowski, Susan Collins ilk are so full of shit its boggling. They feign concern but do nothing rinse and repeat.

Side bar... I've read that the GOP, through calculations will determine whether or not they feel like they'll lose bigly in November within the next few months. If they come to that conclusion they will tack to the fiscal tightening side of their faux-platform and squeeze hard on the economy so that the next Democratic president resides over a terrible recession/depression so that they can then blame them for the economy and hope that it will be a one term president.

Always a con.


That seems like a very obvious play.

And the President is so stupid that he won't even realize what they are doing to him.

RainMaker 06-04-2020 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan (Post 3284473)
Murkowski can rightly fuck off. I think we've already had enough of her 'brave leadership' that we can handle.


Kind of felt the same about what Mattis said. I mean it's good he said it but he also gave the President credibility when he was in his role. Same long jackoff motion reading these people speak up now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BYU 14 (Post 3284448)
It would not shock me at all, but how does the circumvent the law requiring a new President to be in place on January 21st of next year. I don't see any path to getting around that and the absolute chaos it would cause even trying.

I will have to look for the exact specifics, but there is a plan of succession in place to transfer power if there is an issue with having the election.


Pretty sure if an election was cancelled they aren't going to give a shit about the line of succession.

albionmoonlight 06-04-2020 03:15 PM

I realize that by November, we'll be 6 crises past where we are now so none of this will matter.

But for a President so image obsessed, it is kind of crazy that one of the things that's really hurting him is that fact that he had no idea how people hold books, so that Bible video looks so stupid.

Like, if he had just spent any time in his life reading books, he would have learned how to hold them just through repetition.

stevew 06-04-2020 03:16 PM

I assume they’ll do the absolute minimum relief package(if any) that keeps the Senate in GOP control. And then starve the economy so that they can attempt to destroy the Biden presidency and regain the house.


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