I feel like I've argued this same thing 6 times at FOFC by now, but it really says something that 2 of the 3 examples that come to mind when people discuss the need for a salary cap have been 2 of the most successful franchises in the game over the past decade (and another, Tampa Bay, just made the WS.)

KC has been in the weakest division for the past decade and struggled not because of revenues or spending, but because of poor management and bad luck, which may be changing.

This salary floor thing is not going to happen if the floor is enacted to be similar to the NFLs which I would assume would be used by the union as a guide. The NFL floor is 87.6% of the cap. If MLB were to make the cap $130M, the floor would be $114M. That's not going to happen.

That's more likely than a cap being anywhere lower than $130M.

I don't see how you can do a cap/floor in MLB without relocating/contracting teams. There's just too much revenue difference for it to be meaningful. And the union isn't going to (and shouldn't) leave hundreds of millions on the table by taking away the checkbook of the big market teams to any real degree by imposing a restrictive cap.

The owners have made headway in revenue sharing though - that's the most realistic place to continue making progress.

If a cap were set at $130m or so it'd basically be an anti-Yankees thing which feels kind of wrong even though I don't like that team. The Mets and Cubs are around $135m and everyone else is at $120m and below.

$25m per year in revenue sharing is a lot of money for the smaller clubs as it as, but if the perception remains that competitive balance is an issue they could always increase it. I just don't trust all of the owners to put that money towards the amateur draft, free agents, international scouting, etc.

This is an outdated argument (owners pocketing revenue sharing money). There were some additional rules instituted in the latest agreement due to those concerns that keep owners from just stuffing all the money in their pocket. I remember David Glass specifically talking about how other owners that were doing that were hurting the revenue sharing argument, so most of the small market teams now face penalties or a reduction in revenue sharing if they don't use it.

Marco Scutaro steals second after a walk.

Glad they fixed the problem then.

Well, I don't know it it's fixed per se, but the big market teams refused to buy into it without some assurance that they wouldn't just pocket the money. Righfully so.

Classy move by the fans at Fenway tonight as D-Lowe walked off the mound just now, giving him a standing ovation in memory of 2004, and he tipped his cap and acknowledged them. Love it.

A lot easier to do that when you're up 3-0, but still nice nonetheless.

he got one at the beginning of the game too apparently, but i was eating dinner so i missed it

He got standing ovations when he went to the bullpen to warm up and went he went to the mound in the first inning. Definitely a classy move.....as much as it pains me to give Boston fans any credit for anything;)

Baseball's revenue structure doesn't make it impossible for small market teams to compete, just far more difficult. The last time I looked it was something like two thirds of the playoff teams over the past few years were in the top third of payrolls. Having a higher payroll gives you a better chance to make the playoffs.

I'm at borderline man love status in regards to Andrew McCutchen.

Triple number 4 in 3 weeks. Plus s highlight reel catch in center.

But doesn't that make a good bit of sense? I mean, better players tend to make more money & better players (in theory) tend to improve your chance to make the playoffs. But that bit of "duh" isn't why I posted.

Instead, I was wondering if anyone had ever broken out the numbers for teams who make the playoffs for the first time in a few years & where those teams were in the salary structure at that point. What I'm wondering about is how the escalation of salaries after players have success and their teams reach the playoffs in multiple seasons affects a stat like salary rank of teams in the playoffs. Think Braves at the beginning of their post-season streak with young & lower paid Smoltz & Glavine vs years later when they were pulling down a lot more money.

This is why I don't watch a ton on baseball-
Jim Tracy brings out the pitcher from last inning to throw the warmup tosses between innings.
Then goes to his closer, who I guess was "not ready"

So we go back for 2 more minutes of commercials.

Also Huston Street can apparently go to the mouth between every pitch. I thought that was supposed to be a ball?

Another good outing by Cain. Too bad the Giants have also only scored one run through 10 innings.

Andrew McCutchen is the man. I think he'll give Colby Rasmus and Tommy Hanson a serious run for NL RoY.

If I recall the rule, if he goes to his mouth while on the rubber, it's a ball.

Off the rubber has a little leeway I believe.

Ah, i was thinking that. Regardless it's semantics, it's not like spit dries up in that extra 3 seconds.

That's freaking awesome.

:lol:

I did that once in high school. I cant believe it happened in a major league game.

Pujols is a freaking MONSTER.. A GS, solo HR, single, and a double today. He loves KC. :)

Specifically our pitching staff. Tho if he'd like to come play for the Royals, we'd welcome him with open arms :)

SI

Hey, the Royals passed on him. ;)

I was at the game yesterday. That grand slam by Pujols was an absolute bomb. Even most of the Royals fans stood up to admire that one. I don't know if they had an official measurement on it, but it definitely rivaled the longest homer hit in that stadium. If it was short of the record, it was only by 10-15 feet.

Oh, and it was HOT! Thankfully, we found some shade, but heat index of 110 is pretty brutal.

The Nationals take TWO SERIES in a row and are 4-2 in this interleague stretch against the AL East. BRING ON BOSTON! I'll be at all three games.

I notice that in the wins, the Nats have had this thing, what's it called again? Oh, yeah: pitching.

Boy, I remember what it was like for the Royals to have that- it was something like 2 months ago (actually, last week it was good but in the last 5, we've given up 12, 12, 10, 7, 12 and lost all by 5+ runs)

SI

I hate interleague play. Makes the All Star game and the World Series less special.

I would say it was much more about defense than pitching. Part of that is the "non-error" errors that have been prevelant. Even without high error numbers (which the Nationals hav ethe highest in the league) the poor defense accounts for more men on base than the number suggests. Acta went for a weaker offense and stronger defense during those games and it paid off.

The bullpen has been better, though. I don't think you can discoutn the effect of having trust in the guys behind you, though.

Dola: the Nats had 4 wins in 22 games before the 4 game streak.

Donald Fehr is reportedly stepping down as head of the MLBPA. Wonder if this is voluntary.

Hmmmmmm.......wonder who they'll look at to replace him?

This is basically what my daughter's softball games look like after almost every at bat.

ESPN has the story:

Source: Donald Fehr leaving as MLB union head - ESPN

Wow. I'm sure they'll sugar-coat it, but the timing can't just be coincidental.

Ok, that's from out in left field and just plain weird. Any reason given?

SI

Well, what is the timing coincidental with?

SI

All the shit the players are no doubt giving him and Orza over the fact that the "anonymous" drug tests from 2003 weren't (a) anonymous and (b) destroyed. Not to mention the increasing shit they are taking from the media about dragging their feet on drug testing over the past decade and protecting drug users at the expense of the clean players' good names (as the Ibanez flare-up showed). Seems to me a lot of this came to a head with the ARod and Sosa leaks.

Oh, I agree. I was just surprised it took until now to happen. I didn't see a significant event that precipitated it. More of a lifetime achievement award which is kindof a discourteous send off for a man who every player should be on their knees paying respect to right now.

Personally, I never liked Fehr and good riddance. But if they just replaced him with a general counsel- they just replaced one weaselly lawyer with another.

SI

So about 70 games into the season, and I still have no idea what to make of the Tigers. They're being anchored by three pitchers. One, Verlander, seems to have put it together finally. Another, Jackson, is defying expectations but there is still the impending doom an implosion is around the corner, and the other, Porcello, is a 20 year old rookie who will probably hit a wall soon.

After that it's Galarraga who has lost all ability to throw a pitch with anything resembling movement, another rookie Figaro who only has had one start, Dontrelle Willis who's back on the DL with anxiety, Bonderman who is back on the DL till at least September, and then not much.

The pen is somewhat decent but still filled with guys who are as likely to K the side as they are to give up 3 runs when they come in. Lively arms, but not very consistent.

On the offensive side of things, Guillen might be done all year. Magglio is either not the age on his birth certificate, forgot how to hit or off of the juice, Polanco is hitting better but is getting older, and we still have Adam Everett and Gerald Laird who are what they are.

Thankfully, Brandon Inge has actually play incredibly well at the dish, but how long can that last? The skeptic in me says the wheels could fall off. Granderson is hitting for power but he needs to get on base more, and Miggy is still great and rounding into form. I expect he'll blow up the next half of the season and get near 35 - 40 HR and 115 - 120 RBI.

With all that said, the AL Central is pretty pathetic. KC has fallen off the map. Cleveland is doing the same. The White Sox could be sellers soon but the Twins are always lurking.

Detroit can win the Central and if their 3 starters perform, they have a shot to even do a little post season damage. Yet in the same breath they could end up just at or below .500 because nothing is known with them.

At this point I'd hope they try and take a feeler on Ben Sheets. A one year deal with incentives that can trigger an option or something. If it doesn't work, oh well, but we need to solidify the pitching.

The hitting, well it is what it is. We don't have a lot of prospects who we can trade to get a bat, so unless we go after a guy like Spillbough, and he isn't much of an upgrade, I think our offense is what it is. The best hope is Magglio turns it on.

Anyway, I just needed to empty my Tigs thoughts on an off day and go from there.

Tigers are paying over $41M this year alone to Bonderman, Willis, and Ordonez. Ouch.

Plus Ordonez has an 18M option that could very realistically kick in for next year.

Haven't they essentially benched Magglio because he's not hitting well and so his option doesn't vest?

SI

If he gets 300 PAs more it vests. It's going to be a tough situation either way.

Yeah.. mother nature just decided to skip summer for us this year.

I was trying to get up there for a game this weekend.. would have loved to been at that game. :)

I'll be in Columbia from Thursday - Sunday for Mizzou soccer camp if you'll be around.

The Magglio situation will be ugly if he doesn't pick it up. That said if he continues to struggle it's a great out for the Tigs. He only has 11 XBH this season. Had Papi not been so terrible Magglio would be under the gun even more but he had the luxury of a slumping Papi.

Now if Magglio gets better but the Tigs go down hill, I bet they try and cut bait then but that'll get VERY ugly.

Beltran to the DL. One of the Mets fans here is going to get called up by the end of the season. This is beyond ridiculous.

Fernando Tatis, CLEANUP HITTER!

Open tryouts on FOFC :thumbsup:

It really is ridiculous at this point. Did they forget to bring the medical facilities over to Citi?

I vote Lathum.

They gotta be pushing he limits of their 40 man. Toronto as well

And people bitch about OOTP injuries?

:)

no thanks, I enjoy walking.

It really is. Thank god the Phils can't win at home, but now with Beltran down Wright is so alone in the lineup. It's not hard to see a rought month ahead unless the pitching is lights out.

This could be followed up very soon by Fernando Tatis, CENTER FIELDER!

Same here. I also did had a couple steals when catchers lazily threw the ball back to the pitcher and no one was paying attention.

Donald Fehr stepping down from the MLBPA. The guy should probably be in jail.

Ha!

I know, I know.

Come on now, Ollie Perez should be back soon!

Is this ootp?

LOL!

And hits just keep on coming ;)

And yet, the Mets take down the Pujolses. Hopefully the Phillies can stop sh!tting the bed and Ryan Howard can stop sh!tting in a bedpan...

Brad Lidge is supposed to pitch in the minors today. Hopefully, he found JoBu or Jesus during his time off.

Quit your whining, Mets -- If you have to call up your whole AAA team the big league team will still be better than the Nationals. :)

Is that supposed to make us feel better ;)

Quite so. :)

Can someone tell me why ESPNews is going to show live lookins of Manny's at bats in his rehab assignment tonite? He was suspended 50 games for a banned substance, why should we glorify his rehab assignment in AAA?

Because there's more interest in those AB's nationally than in most of the games actually underway in the majors (or even in most of those that will follow for the next 2 months)?

Hard to blame ESPN on that decision best I can figure.

To be honest, I don't get why he gets to play ANYTHING until his time is done.

Seems kind of...cheap.

/tk

Elmer Dessens, Pat Misch, Jon Switzer, Nick Evans, Fernando Nieve...all guys actually on the roster tonight of the New York Mets, not the Albuquerque Isotopes.

I agree.

yay!!!

NEW YORK -- Major League Baseball president Bob DuPuy has denied the formal protest filed by the New York Yankees after a disputed loss to the Florida Marlins.
New York manager Joe Girardi protested Sunday's 6-5 defeat at Florida because of a Marlins substitution mix-up.
In the top of the eighth inning, Chris Coghlan started in left after manager Fredi Gonzalez had removed him in a double switch. Alejandro De Aza batted for pitcher Renyel Pinto in the seventh and was supposed to take over in left, but never ran on the field.
Leo Nunez threw a pitch, then Girardi protested. Coghlan was removed, Jeremy Hermida went to left and the Yankees protested, trailing 6-3 at the time.
Girardi thought Nunez should have been ruled out of the game.
Gonzalez said before the Marlins played the Orioles on Tuesday night he was relieved to learn the protest had been denied.
"For me, it wasn't something you could protest but it's embarrassing, big-time embarrassing," Gonzalez said. "You've got 25 guys on the team and six coaches and staff members and 50,000 people in the stands and two million viewers, it's not easy. You get the game protested and then an off-day. It was a tough couple days.
"By rule, Nunez was never out of the game," Gonzalez said. "The only question was, put the right guy out there and where does he hit. That's it."

Nice walk off win for the Tigs vs the Cubs today. I can't believe Gregg is still their closer.

That was fun to watch.

In other news, the Phillies broke out of their 6 game losing streak, with a 10-1
win over the Rays.

The win came on the road no less, as playing at home is a nightmare, so far this season.

Very happy to see the Braves get a 4-0 win over the Yankees, but Hanson has been very lucky so far. A 1.6 WHIP is certainly not gonna cut it.

That was a brutal game to watch. The Yankees left 11 men on base and Hanson was all over the place. Wang wasn't bad but only got to throw 62 pitches because of the stupid NL rules. Phil Hughes was awesome as usual. I think Joba will be just as awesome tomorrow.

Kerry Wood almost blew another. Got laRouche to fly out after allowing 4-5 baserunners.

lol

That 62 pitch limit for visiting teams is a bitch.

:lol:

They had to pinch hit for him is obviously what I meant. If the NL played real baseball, Wang would have stayed in to pitch longer.

What 62 pitch limit?

Hey - Wang's ERA is down to 11.20 since he only gave up 3ER in 5IP. And Phil Hughes...wow...2 innings of no-hit baseball!

But I thought Hughes pitched awesome - why are you upset Wang had to come out.

In fact, Hughes pitched better than Wang, you should be happy Wang had to come out. 3ER in 5 IP isn't really all that awesome. I mean from a #4 or #5 starter, sure.

Wang got a little unlucky in the 3rd with an out A-Rod didn't get that would have given him a 1-2-3 inning. I never said Wang was awesome, I said he wasn't bad. It would have been nice to see him throw more pitches since he's still trying to get that pitch count up. Plus I just don't like the NL style of baseball or interleague play.

Could A-Rod's contract go down as the worst of all time?

Well at least we agree on half that statement.

Interleague play needs to go away with the exception of the ASG & the WS.

Two words: Mike. Hampton.

it scares me that i agree with you so much these days! :)

I wonder the same thing, too. Hey, anyone know what the deal is with the 62 pitch limit?

There are some other pretty bad ones, a lot of them from the Yankees. Carl Pavano is one that comes to mind. A-Rod has 8 more years after this. I don't know how much of his struggles this year are due to him coming back early from hip surgery and not getting adequate rest and/or steroid use.

Say, should we do that for the Royals? Tony Pena Jr, Luis Hernandez, Tug Hulett- and that's just our no hit middle infielders and doesn't include Willie Bloomquist.

Say, ls, want to try the nats? ;)

SI

Oooh, I'll get that one started since I happened to notice their impressive pitching line tonight, with six pitchers all allowing runs against Boston (not sure how often that actually happens but seems like it would be at least a little unusual).

Actually though I recognize most of the names in tonight's boxscore, I couldn't have picked 2B Anderson Hernandez as a major league player from a list of random names, nor Alberto Gonzalez. The other 14 players they used I at least recognize their names. Oddly enough, the Red Sox also used two players tonight I'm not sure I could have identified as major leaguers either, catcher Dusty Brown who made his major league debut & reliever Daniel Bard.

I was surprised to be reminded that Kip Wells was still in the league at this point, he hasn't posted an ERA under 5.2 with any of the six teams he's played for since 2005. Even more surprised that he has the first two saves of his career. This guy has to be wondering if there's an easier way to make a living, having pitched for the following teams & their winning percentages: Tex '06 (.494), Pit '06 (.414), StL '07 (.481), KC '08 (.463), Col '08 (.457), Was '09 (.294). Throw in 2002-2005 with the Pirates and it's been 8 years since he pitched for a team that finished over .500, the White Sox back in 2000 & 2001.

Zack was back in command tonight. 8 IP, 8 H- all singles, 1 R, 0 BB, and 5 K.

I'm getting a bit worried about his work, tho. The only game he hasn't gone 100+ pitches was his season debut with 95. Since then, he's gone 13 straight including 116, 114, 101, 116, and 115 coming into this game.

SI

Yeah, the whole injury thing, hard to feel sorry for those squads when your own team has had guys like Matt Palmer, Francisco Rodriguez (not that one), Rafael Rodriguez, Rich Thompson, Sean O'Sullivan, Anthony Ortega, Sean Rodriguez on top of fringe guys who made the 25 man roster and got pushed into more major roles, like Dustin Moseley, the late Nick Adenhart, Kevin Jepsen, Shane Loux, etc.

Definitely the Mets are getting hit hard by the injury bug right now, as well as other teams, but no one gave the Angels a break in the early season when their best three starters were out, Vlad was out, two of the replacement starters needed to be replaced as well...

That's the way it goes sometimes.