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JPhillips 05-03-2020 08:09 AM

From WaPo:

Quote:

"There’s a little bit of a God complex,” an administration official said of the doctors.

“They’re all about science, science, science, which is good, but sometimes there’s a little bit less of a consideration of politics when maybe there should be.”

NobodyHere 05-03-2020 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3279288)
Was anyone arguing that China wasn’t covering stuff up?


The World Health Organization for one

sterlingice 05-03-2020 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3279410)
The World Health Organization for one


Yeah, China covered stuff up and we should be wary of our dealings with them just like we were (are?) with Russia or any other superpower.

But when China shut down an entire province on January 23rd, it hit my personal radar and I started stocking up on stuff over the next few weeks. It didn't totally become "real" to me until late February but I was still making plans (building my typical stockpile of food, supplies a few months early) just in case. And I think most people who know me on this board can figure out that I'm not a prepper - I'm made for the 21st century and if society collapses, I'm one of the first to go. But, if dumbass non-prepper me figured this out then, why the hell were we not doing anything about it as a country.

2020 Congressional insider trading scandal - Wikipedia
Wait?!? We fucking did the very next day on January 24th. How do I know that? Because a bunch of crooks in Congress got the hell out of their stock positions because they knew it was going to be bad.

But did we stockpile PPE? Create a national plan or system? No, we gave a bunch to companies to ratchet up the price and get states in a bidding war while distributing the rest for political favors. Did we start developing a test? Yeah, but we refused international help and our test was broken and cost us weeks in prep. Did we begin to come up with a comprehensive national plan? Uh, we floated a travel ban because it played into our President's racist wheelhouse. And, in this case, it probably would have been the right thing to do. But when you spend so much of the rest of your time being racist and palling around with little Neo Nazis, people tend to doubt whether your motives are genuine or if you're just feeding political red meat to the racist wing of your base.

Once again, China screwed us over. They screwed the whole world over. But that's to be expected. One of the money quotes from Casino sum this up nicely: "Listen, if you didn't know you were being scammed you're too fuckin' dumb to keep this job, if you did know, you were in on it. Either way, YOU'RE OUT!"

Yes, China screwed us but we absolutely didn't have to compound it by being so inept here. So blaming them for /all of it/ or even trying to try to get in a game of "who was responsible for what percent" is just stupid political gamesmanship to cover up for the administration's massive stupidity and corruption.

SI

albionmoonlight 05-04-2020 08:14 AM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...HCYOTHEPOSKF6E

Quote:

On Saturday, former president George W. Bush called on Americans to put aside partisan differences amid the “shared threat” of the coronavirus pandemic.

“Let us remember how small our differences are in the face of this shared threat,” Bush said in the three-minute video shared by the George W. Bush Presidential Center. “In the final analysis, we are not partisan combatants. We are human beings, equally vulnerable and equally wonderful in the sight of God. We rise or fall together.”

The former president was participating in a weekend live-stream event, “The Call to Unite.”

Bush did not mention Trump in the video, which celebrated health workers, people delivering food to the elderly and ordinary Americans wearing masks.

Trump, however, responded Sunday on Twitter , paraphrasing a Fox News host as having said, “Oh by the way, I appreciate the message from former President Bush, but where was he during Impeachment calling for putting partisanship aside.”

Trump then added in his own voice: “He was nowhere to be found in speaking up against the greatest Hoax in American history!”

Trump was speaking of his impeachment by the Democratic-led House for his conduct toward Ukraine, which resulted in an acquittal in the Republican-led Senate.

sterlingice 05-04-2020 08:18 AM

I know this isn't news, but Trump is such a small, petty man. Maybe he should listen to the (also somewhat inept) President who had like a 90% approval rating during his crisis.

SI

albionmoonlight 05-04-2020 10:26 AM

It is such a big and obvious failure that it is going to get lost in the shuffle.

But we shut down the US to give our leaders time to get testing/contact tracing/etc. in place.

And they just didn't. They didn't even try.

THEY DIDN'T EVEN TRY.

We are not materially closer to being able to open safely than we were a month ago. Because the people in charge of making it safer didn't do anything.

Think of every sacrifice you and your loved ones have made over the last month. And then realize that Trump and Co. did NOTHING with that time. Did NOTHING with your sacrifice.

But, hey, 90%+ approval in the GOP, so I guess I'm the rube for thinking any of this matters.

Kodos 05-04-2020 10:29 AM

How dare you question our DEAR LEADER!

JPhillips 05-04-2020 10:29 AM

Didn't you hear, he shut down travel from China!

spleen1015 05-04-2020 12:35 PM

Like the media, you're just being mean and hostile.

You should be nice to him.

sterlingice 05-04-2020 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3279531)
It is such a big and obvious failure that it is going to get lost in the shuffle.

But we shut down the US to give our leaders time to get testing/contact tracing/etc. in place.

And they just didn't. They didn't even try.

THEY DIDN'T EVEN TRY.

We are not materially closer to being able to open safely than we were a month ago. Because the people in charge of making it safer didn't do anything.

Think of every sacrifice you and your loved ones have made over the last month. And then realize that Trump and Co. did NOTHING with that time. Did NOTHING with your sacrifice.

But, hey, 90%+ approval in the GOP, so I guess I'm the rube for thinking any of this matters.


Think about the sacrifices we're going to endure for the next few months and/or years because of it.

Last Monday (or maybe it was the Friday before), a speciality hospital where an acquaintance works talked about how they were responsible for more than 1% of tests in Texas.

https://www.politico.com/interactive...-of-new-cases/

These appear to be credible numbers, not wild claims, as they were over 2K tests and this shows the state would have been in the 200K+ range last week.

On the one hand, that's a pretty awesome accomplishment.

On the other hand, these tests were for employees, employees of a neighboring hospital, and patients who were already coming in for procedures. This was not a public testing - this was just testing that the hospital set up so they could keep functioning.

That's the patchwork crap that's seemingly going on all over this country. No coordination. No pooling of resources to drive efficiency. Nothing.

By and large, we did our part and stayed home. Some did a better job than others but, we can all agree, that significant effort was made and we've started to see the curve flatten. But that was supposed to buy time to get better testing and hope for treatments. The latter was always a long shot but the former was the one we should have been able to mobilize and do.

Instead, we have a GOP governor guarding his stockpile with the national guard and state police because he thinks the President is going to steal it and then have his buddies sell it at 10x the price to another state.

And we're going to be dealing with this for months or even years until we get a robust testing apparatus. All the while, we'll be hemorrhaging jobs because few will feel safe. For any travelers, we'll be on the "sh*thole" country list and have to quarantine for 14 days whenever we go anywhere - I doubt that will help business and international travel recover.

SI

Atocep 05-04-2020 03:09 PM

Getting sent Hatch Act reminders and guidelines for teleworkers is priceless considering the current administration.

albionmoonlight 05-04-2020 04:07 PM

The “I’m so sexy it would offend God himself to cover this up” approach.

Tyler Buchanan on Twitter: "GOP State Rep. Nino Vitale on why he won’t wear a face mask: “This is the greatest nation on earth founded on Judeo-Christian Principles. One of those principles is that we are all created in the image and likeness of God. That image is seen the most by our face.”… https://t.co/v9NJ5beUJc"

QuikSand 05-04-2020 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3279288)
They are actually going to manage to get the media to buy into the “if China messed up in any way whatsoever, then Trump cannot be held accountable for anything” framing, aren’t they?


...they'll definitely get virtually everyone who's "in play" to vote for him.

ISiddiqui 05-04-2020 04:10 PM


Time to dongs out for God then!

Brian Swartz 05-04-2020 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight
The “I’m so sexy it would offend God himself to cover this up” approach.

Tyler Buchanan on Twitter: "GOP State Rep. Nino Vitale on why he won’t wear a face mask: “This is the greatest nation on earth founded on Judeo-Christian Principles. One of those principles is that we are all created in the image and likeness of God. That image is seen the most by our face.”… https://t.co/v9NJ5beUJc"


I'm not trying to turn this into a religious debate, but I seriously want to see the exegesis for this claim. I.e. the whole face thing. There's all kinds of perspectives on what exactly the image of God is, and let's just say that I'm disinclined to agree with this one.

JPhillips 05-04-2020 04:44 PM

Apparently the WH is following a model that says deaths essentially stop after May 15.

cuervo72 05-04-2020 04:45 PM

Death Deadline!

(Deathline?)

albionmoonlight 05-04-2020 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3279608)
Apparently the WH is following a model that says deaths essentially stop after May 15.


Death, be not proud, though some have called thee
Mighty and dreadful, for thou art not so;
For those whom thou think'st thou dost overthrow
Die not, poor Death, nor yet canst thou kill me.
From rest and sleep, which but thy pictures be,
Much pleasure; then from thee much more must flow,
And soonest our best men with thee do go,
Rest of their bones, and soul's delivery.
Thou art slave to fate, chance, kings, and desperate men,
And dost with poison, war, and sickness dwell,
And poppy or charms can make us sleep as well
And better than thy stroke; why swell'st thou then?
One short sleep past, we wake eternally
And death shall be no more; Death, thou shalt die.

sterlingice 05-04-2020 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3279608)
Apparently the WH is following a model that says deaths essentially stop after May 15.


Upshot: maybe there's a meteor strike they know about so they don't care about COVID

SI

tarcone 05-04-2020 07:21 PM

HEY, at least the government is giving millions of dollars to big oil. Shoot, that industry NEEDS that money. Those billions and billions they make every year just cant sustain these oils prices.

Of course, now the biodiesel people are pissed because they dont get theirs.

Meanwhile, that $2400 my family got went, and fast.

PilotMan 05-04-2020 07:45 PM

I'm thinking the only way that we get out of this is if the government just gives out money to everyone until they can get back to making money on their own and completely prop up the economy. Even if it means devaluing the dollar. Open or not, there will be no money to spend anywhere with this many jobs gone, and so very many more to come. If that happens, then recovery might happen faster. Otherwise, we're in for a long, long, downward cycle with no visible or quick recovery on the horizon.

stevew 05-04-2020 07:50 PM

It would be great if the IRS could actually process my tax return. I know they dropped everything to do the stimulus but I’m at like 10 weeks since I filed and no way to get an update.

tarcone 05-04-2020 07:59 PM

I liked the 17 Dem legislatures idea of giving everyone making less than $150k, $2k a month through July.

That would do wonders for small businesses IMO. Think of the projects people would hire others to do. Or they could pay rent to their land lords or go out and eat a couple times a month or more. Whatever. Im on board for that one.

Lathum 05-04-2020 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone (Post 3279649)
I liked the 17 Dem legislatures idea of giving everyone making less than $150k, $2k a month through July.

That would do wonders for small businesses IMO. Think of the projects people would hire others to do. Or they could pay rent to their land lords or go out and eat a couple times a month or more. Whatever. Im on board for that one.


I disagree.

I think that money would largely go to big business. People would pay mortgage, utilities, etc..and put it in savings.

You really want small business stimulated give it to people who are fortunate enough to not need it. I would spend literally every dime on a local business if we got a stimulus. That being said we are still dumping a lot into the local businesses and consider ourselves fortunate not to need a stimulus.

Lathum 05-04-2020 09:00 PM

So how about this.

Why can't the government provide stimulus in the form of a voucher, stamp, whatever that you can only use at a local business or a business that employees on X number of people?

Seems like that would prevent people from using their stimulus on big companies.

NobodyHere 05-04-2020 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone (Post 3279649)
I liked the 17 Dem legislatures idea of giving everyone making less than $150k, $2k a month through July.

That would do wonders for small businesses IMO. Think of the projects people would hire others to do. Or they could pay rent to their land lords or go out and eat a couple times a month or more. Whatever. Im on board for that one.


I like the 2k /month idea better than what they have spent the stimulus on.

CrimsonFox 05-04-2020 09:07 PM

Three family members charged in shooting death of security guard who told a customer to put on a face mask

Brought to you by Cowardly white terrorists inspired by the cowardly orange terrorist

NobodyHere 05-04-2020 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox (Post 3279681)
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/04/us/mi...y_WxTvvlBfV8SI

Brought to you by Cowardly white terrorists inspired by the cowardly orange terrorist


You forgot the sarcasm tag :lol:

ETA:

These are CrimsonFox's "Cowardly white terrorists"



You may want to rethink your racism

CrimsonFox 05-04-2020 09:24 PM

Three Russian doctors fall from hospital windows, raising questions amid coronavirus pandemic

In soviet russia, windows jump YOU


Edward64 05-04-2020 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3279682)
You forgot the sarcasm tag :lol:

ETA:

These are CrimsonFox's "Cowardly white terrorists"



You may want to rethink your racism


Let's not forget the mother. What a f**d up family. The victim was father of the year in a school.


Edward64 05-04-2020 11:22 PM

I like there is bipartianship in the rejection and they are trying to make a statement by not accepting the tests.

However, senate is coming back into session this week. I assume this means they are onsite vs virtual. If so, I would prefer if they did take the tests to reduce the possibility of a mass-spike-quarantine which will disrupt things (e.g. we don't need anymore disruption).

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/04/polit...ntv/index.html
Quote:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Monday defended her decision along with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell to decline an offer from the Trump administration to deploy rapid coronavirus testing capabilities to Capitol Hill and said that tests should go to Americans on the front lines of the crisis.

"The fact is that we have said that the tests should go to those on the frontline who had direct communication with or are contending with this," Pelosi said. "Our capital (physician) has said we don't need to have them in terms of the exposure that we have. The testing organization said to us you're not next. We can bump you in line, push other people out of the way, but you're not next in terms of essential workers for this."

In a rare joint statement, McConnell and Pelosi said on Saturday that they would "respectfully" decline an offer from the administration to deploy rapid testing capabilities to the Hill ahead of senators' return to Washington on Monday.

Lathum 05-05-2020 05:56 AM

What possesses someone to do that. I get a heat of the moment exchange and it escalates. Driving home, getting a gun, then driving back you 100% have to know that ends with you and anyone involved in jail for the rest of your life. But hey, you defended your wife’s honor.

albionmoonlight 05-05-2020 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 3279668)
I disagree.

I think that money would largely go to big business. People would pay mortgage, utilities, etc..and put it in savings.

You really want small business stimulated give it to people who are fortunate enough to not need it. I would spend literally every dime on a local business if we got a stimulus. That being said we are still dumping a lot into the local businesses and consider ourselves fortunate not to need a stimulus.


This raises an interesting point. People are mushing together two different purposes of stimulus.

Is it to give direct payments to people who have lost their income? If so, then you do want to means test it, etc.

Or, is to to put money into the economy so that people spend it, which then keeps businesses afloat? If so, then you want to give it, broadly, to everyone.

These purposes can overlap, of course. But Latham is right. If you try to limit the stimulus to simply replacing lost income, then you are not going to have the "stimulus" effect that you would if you are giving it to people to encourage them to go have that night on the town that they wouldn't have had otherwise.

albionmoonlight 05-05-2020 08:44 AM

Remember, in America EVERYONE is against frivolous lawsuits. And EVERYONE runs to court at the first opportunity if they don't like what it happening to them.

The only thing we disagree on is what is "frivolous."

Coronavirus: A GOP lawsuit could force Wisconsin to reopen immediately - Vox

(FWIW, I have no thoughts on the merits of the lawsuit referenced here. I never got around to taking Wisconsin public health law in law school).

ISiddiqui 05-05-2020 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew (Post 3279648)
It would be great if the IRS could actually process my tax return. I know they dropped everything to do the stimulus but I’m at like 10 weeks since I filed and no way to get an update.


Huh, that's interesting. I filed my tax return the week the stimulus checks went out and I got my refund in 3-4 days. I used TurboTax and direct deposit, FWIW.

JPhillips 05-05-2020 12:44 PM

Venezuela has captured two Americans working as mercenaries for a company that may or may not have been trying to start a coup that may or may not have been backed by the U.S. government.

bronconick 05-05-2020 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3279812)
Venezuela has captured two Americans working as mercenaries for a company that may or may not have been trying to start a coup that may or may not have been backed by the U.S. government.


Again? Didn't we openly blunder through trying to remove Maduro in 2017 during those protests?

Qwikshot 05-05-2020 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronconick (Post 3279814)
Again? Didn't we openly blunder through trying to remove Maduro in 2017 during those protests?


Perhaps a third time is a charm...

JPhillips 05-05-2020 12:58 PM

If you go back to the Bush admin this might be #4.

JPhillips 05-05-2020 01:01 PM

dola

WH telling members of the coronavirus task force that they are going to wind down soon.

Ten more days until no more deaths!

Qwikshot 05-05-2020 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3279818)
If you go back to the Bush admin this might be #4.


Ah, it resets with a new president...I'll give the orange one a mulligan on Bushie's attempt.

QuikSand 05-05-2020 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3279820)
dola

WH telling members of the coronavirus task force that they are going to wind down soon.

Ten more days until no more deaths!


I'm sure we have that Mission Accomplished banner around here someplace... right on time.

QuikSand 05-05-2020 01:13 PM

From a purely political point of view, I've always wondered how far the strategy of denying facts could go. I thought it might be a visible recession might be the thing, where the Administration and its figurehead would just implore people to ignore the lines of people at the unemployment office, that everythign is just fine, it's fake news, etc.

Maybe the test ends up being body counts. If their internal projections are correct, and we have 2,000-3,000 American deaths each week for the months ahead... will the strategy start to become one of denial, rather than this half-witted rationalization they're floating now? Move past "grandma didn't have much left to offer" and right onto "it's not true, those are fake numbers from the media who are trying to hurt Trump." Would be interesting.

Sickening, in every real world way, but politically fascinating. I mean, that's basically why you discredit the actual media, so you have the ability to lie about anything you want. This might be the "break glass in case of emergency" situation.

Qwikshot 05-05-2020 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand (Post 3279824)
From a purely political point of view, I've always wondered how far the strategy of denying facts could go. I thought it might be a visible recession might be the thing, where the Administration and its figurehead would just implore people to ignore the lines of people at the unemployment office, that everythign is just fine, it's fake news, etc.

Maybe the test ends up being body counts. If their internal projections are correct, and we have 2,000-3,000 American deaths each week for the months ahead... will the strategy start to become one of denial, rather than this half-witted rationalization they're floating now? Move past "grandma didn't have much left to offer" and right onto "it's not true, those are fake numbers from the media who are trying to hurt Trump." Would be interesting.

Sickening, in every real world way, but politically fascinating. I mean, that's basically why you discredit the actual media, so you have the ability to lie about anything you want. This might be the "break glass in case of emergency" situation.



I had a terrible conflict on things.

My thought is what happens if Trump considers everything done and the virus actually does recede? Do I want that to happen?

I remember the craziness when some of our posters we're beside themselves in why other posters would want the economy to fail during Trump's tenure.

Do I really want people to die because Trump is in charge?

The truth is, it doesn't matter if more people die because they open up. Even if there is more death, Trump and his supporters will say it is for the best. If they open up and there is no more death, Trump and his supporters will say they were right all along.

It's truly amazing. He has destroyed integrity, stability, the economy and now potentially our lives, and his supporters are still ready for his sloppy seconds.

Lathum 05-05-2020 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand (Post 3279824)
From a purely political point of view, I've always wondered how far the strategy of denying facts could go. I thought it might be a visible recession might be the thing, where the Administration and its figurehead would just implore people to ignore the lines of people at the unemployment office, that everythign is just fine, it's fake news, etc.

Maybe the test ends up being body counts. If their internal projections are correct, and we have 2,000-3,000 American deaths each week for the months ahead... will the strategy start to become one of denial, rather than this half-witted rationalization they're floating now? Move past "grandma didn't have much left to offer" and right onto "it's not true, those are fake numbers from the media who are trying to hurt Trump." Would be interesting.

Sickening, in every real world way, but politically fascinating. I mean, that's basically why you discredit the actual media, so you have the ability to lie about anything you want. This might be the "break glass in case of emergency" situation.


He has been telling people not to believe their own eyes and ears for 3.5 years now. If it gets worse 100% he says the media is inflating death counts to make him look bad. Especially the close we get to the election. The problem is a lot of his support comes from rural areas where maybe Jim Bobs cousin from 3 counties over died from it but he was already in a bad way. His supporters couldn't care less about the libs in sanctuary cities dying in droves, hell, most of them probably rejoice in it. They are the same ones actively rooting for a civil war so they can shoot other Americans.

QuikSand 05-05-2020 01:38 PM

The thing is, for me, I know that I am logically supportive of the general argument about trade-offs... like the general argument that we could drop auto accidents to zero but it would mean huge inconvenience and cost, so we say it's okay for X people do die over time in car wrecks. I get that as an intellectually honest argument.

However, I'm a victim of my own hatred. So if it's team Trump saying that, then I am just magnetically pulled to the side of "that's despicable and inhuman," and I just feel better about being on the other side from them. I'm vaguely aware this is so, but am close to powerless against it.

And yes, I see the political calculus and they have surely gameplanned out how to make it good for re-election regardless of whether there are giant piles of corpses (it's China's fault, and Obama's fault, and the Democrats' fault) or not (Trump saved America and the economy and presumably Christmas).

JPhillips 05-05-2020 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand (Post 3279824)
From a purely political point of view, I've always wondered how far the strategy of denying facts could go. I thought it might be a visible recession might be the thing, where the Administration and its figurehead would just implore people to ignore the lines of people at the unemployment office, that everythign is just fine, it's fake news, etc.

Maybe the test ends up being body counts. If their internal projections are correct, and we have 2,000-3,000 American deaths each week for the months ahead... will the strategy start to become one of denial, rather than this half-witted rationalization they're floating now? Move past "grandma didn't have much left to offer" and right onto "it's not true, those are fake numbers from the media who are trying to hurt Trump." Would be interesting.

Sickening, in every real world way, but politically fascinating. I mean, that's basically why you discredit the actual media, so you have the ability to lie about anything you want. This might be the "break glass in case of emergency" situation.


He said basically that to Lesley Stahl.

Quote:

You know why I do it? I do it to discredit you all and demean you all so that when you write negative stories about me no one will believe you.

Butter 05-05-2020 02:28 PM

I've already started seeing posts on Facebook about how the numbers are artificially inflated because "hospitals get paid more for COVID-19 deaths". So now hospitals are in on the war against Trump.

spleen1015 05-05-2020 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter (Post 3279840)
I've already started seeing posts on Facebook about how the numbers are artificially inflated because "hospitals get paid more for COVID-19 deaths". So now hospitals are in on the war against Trump.


We're all willing to say here that Trump is doing a lot of bad shit. Why is not ok to think that hospitals won't take advantage of the situation too so that they can get more money?

cartman 05-05-2020 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spleen1015 (Post 3279843)
We're all willing to say here that Trump is doing a lot of bad shit. Why is not ok to think that hospitals won't take advantage of the situation too so that they can get more money?


That is making the assumption that hospitals get paid more for a COVID death.

JPhillips 05-05-2020 02:55 PM

And if you did that in any volume, eventually when audits are going to be done both financially and epidemiologically, you're running the tremendous risk of legal problems.

stevew 05-05-2020 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui (Post 3279776)
Huh, that's interesting. I filed my tax return the week the stimulus checks went out and I got my refund in 3-4 days. I used TurboTax and direct deposit, FWIW.


Her employer switched payroll providers midway thru last year. Apparently one of them submitted her W2 earnings super late so our return had significant issues cause of non matching information. They said it was under 60 day review and it’s been like 70+ days. Another lady my wife works with is in same boat. It would be one thing if I was getting audited or something. But it’s just sitting on a pile apparently

ISiddiqui 05-05-2020 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew (Post 3279848)
Her employer switched payroll providers midway thru last year. Apparently one of them submitted her W2 earnings super late so our return had significant issues cause of non matching information. They said it was under 60 day review and it’s been like 70+ days. Another lady my wife works with is in same boat. It would be one thing if I was getting audited or something. But it’s just sitting on a pile apparently


Eesh, that's terrible. And probably working from home is slowing the IRS down even more right now.

ISiddiqui 05-05-2020 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter (Post 3279840)
I've already started seeing posts on Facebook about how the numbers are artificially inflated because "hospitals get paid more for COVID-19 deaths". So now hospitals are in on the war against Trump.


My mother in law is posting how CDC is actually saying there are less deaths than reported... by using a separate count the CDC uses of when they receive death certificates... where on the bottom of the page it says numbers may lag between 1-8 WEEKS because of delays in processing and mailing of said death certificates.

I'm close to blocking her... I've already unfollowed her. And she works as a nurse at a hospice...

panerd 05-05-2020 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand (Post 3279831)
The thing is, for me, I know that I am logically supportive of the general argument about trade-offs... like the general argument that we could drop auto accidents to zero but it would mean huge inconvenience and cost, so we say it's okay for X people do die over time in car wrecks. I get that as an intellectually honest argument.

However, I'm a victim of my own hatred. So if it's team Trump saying that, then I am just magnetically pulled to the side of "that's despicable and inhuman," and I just feel better about being on the other side from them. I'm vaguely aware this is so, but am close to powerless against it.

And yes, I see the political calculus and they have surely gameplanned out how to make it good for re-election regardless of whether there are giant piles of corpses (it's China's fault, and Obama's fault, and the Democrats' fault) or not (Trump saved America and the economy and presumably Christmas).


I find myself a bit of a cynic/skeptic/contrarian so on here I generally try to counter argue the mostly liberal viewpoints, on a Mizzou board I frequent I am countering conservative arguments, and on reason.com (as Howard Roark) I find myself countering Libertarian arguments. Sadly though I do feel like there a large number of people kind of pulling for this not to get better just because... Trump. I applaud some who admit it, some won't admit it, and some sadly don't even know it. Look Trump's an ass, hopefully he gets voted out in a landslide, is mismanaging this thing horribly but he really could still stumble upon the perfect storm of the virus dying back for the summer, it not exactly working how we think, and above all the actual number of cases being astronomically higher than we think. And I know this for some reason would piss people off but this would be fantastic news for me, my family, life in general. That some people fight so hard for all of these great things to not be true is almost as dumbfounding as Trump's support.

stevew 05-05-2020 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui (Post 3279850)
My mother in law is posting how CDC is actually saying there are less deaths than reported... by using a separate count the CDC uses of when they receive death certificates... where on the bottom of the page it says numbers may lag between 1-8 WEEKS because of delays in processing and mailing of said death certificates.

I'm close to blocking her... I've already unfollowed her. And she works as a nurse at a hospice...


Blocked mine. Best decision ever.

RainMaker 05-05-2020 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spleen1015 (Post 3279843)
We're all willing to say here that Trump is doing a lot of bad shit. Why is not ok to think that hospitals won't take advantage of the situation too so that they can get more money?


I'm sure doctors and medical examiners are falsifying records and risking their medical license for this.

albionmoonlight 05-05-2020 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3279861)
I'm sure doctors and medical examiners are falsifying records and risking their medical license for this.


I agree with you 100%. Whatever "inflated numbers" might be caused by intentional over-reporting to get more money amounts to, at best, a rounding error. It is certainly dwarfed by the under-counting caused by the lack of tests.

But here we see the political genius of Trump and his social media team. The conversation we are having should be about the colossal ongoing failure of his administration in dealing with COVID-19. That is all we should be talking about. His numbers right now should be below Nixon at the end. But that is, somehow, not the conversation we are having.

Instead, we are having to expend energy arguing about the accuracy of the numbers. And, of course, a Trump critic cannot prove with 100% certainty that every single person whose cause of death is listed as COVID-19 actually died of COVID-19. Which means that things are "disputed," and we all retreat into our Red/Blue corners.

And that is how Trump's 538 approval rating is effectively unchanged by COVID.

tl;dr Trump and his social media allies are really really good at the messaging side of this.

thesloppy 05-05-2020 06:44 PM

Trump, officials don't wear masks on trip to mask-making facility | TheHill

RainMaker 05-05-2020 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3279882)
I agree with you 100%. Whatever "inflated numbers" might be caused by intentional over-reporting to get more money amounts to, at best, a rounding error. It is certainly dwarfed by the under-counting caused by the lack of tests.

But here we see the political genius of Trump and his social media team. The conversation we are having should be about the colossal ongoing failure of his administration in dealing with COVID-19. That is all we should be talking about. His numbers right now should be below Nixon at the end. But that is, somehow, not the conversation we are having.

Instead, we are having to expend energy arguing about the accuracy of the numbers. And, of course, a Trump critic cannot prove with 100% certainty that every single person whose cause of death is listed as COVID-19 actually died of COVID-19. Which means that things are "disputed," and we all retreat into our Red/Blue corners.

And that is how Trump's 538 approval rating is effectively unchanged by COVID.

tl;dr Trump and his social media allies are really really good at the messaging side of this.


It isn't genius. This country just doesn't put much value on lives. An elementary school got mowed down and we shrugged our shoulders.

If thousands a day die it is fine as long as Applebees remains open.

Atocep 05-05-2020 06:52 PM

I enjoy listening to people that have never spoken about the economy prior to Trump, hard own a damn thing, and have zero investments talk about the importance of opening up for the good of the economy. They just need to man up and admit they're scared Trump isn't going to get reelected and think reopening is his best chance.

JPhillips 05-05-2020 07:05 PM

Hard to forgive the writers for being so heavy handed and playing Live and Let Die during Trump's factory visit.

Lathum 05-05-2020 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew (Post 3279857)
Blocked mine. Best decision ever.


My mother in law is as hard core a Trump supporter as you will find. Totally brainwashed beyond reason. She also is as high risk as you get. Had a heart transplant ten years ago, compromised immune system, obese, kidney problems, etc...

She has taken this more seriously than anyone I know. Tonight she went crazy on facebook. Posting Trey Gowdy conspiracy theories, saying Pelosi et all are destroying our freedom while we shelter in place, and posting we have had a taste of socialism by having our food and movement limited and a curfew.

GrantDawg 05-06-2020 05:42 AM

A nurse that works for a local hospital told my wife about the whole wing they have dedicated to virus victims. She described the number of deaths that she saw in week as a higher number than is being reported for the county during the last two months. I think the numbers are definitely being under-reported here.

albionmoonlight 05-06-2020 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 3279894)
and posting we have had a taste of socialism by having our food and movement limited and a curfew.


I really like capitalism. I do not want America to become socialist or to elect actual socialist politicians. That would be really bad.

So I REALLY hate this lazy habit on the right of calling everything they don't like "socialism."

President Obama leads the charge to implement a market-based plan to lower health care costs while increasing access, and the GOP screams "socialism!"

States implement temporary shelter-in-place orders that are supported by 80% of the public (as of now; it was probably higher when they were first done) to stop people from dying. And the GOP screams "this is socialism!"

Is it any wonder why such a disturbingly high percentage of Gen Z is in favor of socialism? The GOP keeps taking pretty good non-socialist ideas and saying "this is what socialism is." If I were young and impressionable, I'd start to think that if this is socialism, then sign me up.

Vince, Pt. II 05-06-2020 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 3279894)
My mother in law is as hard core a Trump supporter as you will find. Totally brainwashed beyond reason. She also is as high risk as you get. Had a heart transplant ten years ago, compromised immune system, obese, kidney problems, etc...

She has taken this more seriously than anyone I know. Tonight she went crazy on facebook. Posting Trey Gowdy conspiracy theories, saying Pelosi et all are destroying our freedom while we shelter in place, and posting we have had a taste of socialism by having our food and movement limited and a curfew.


It's odd, my Mother-in-Law is a pretty staunch Republican, but has had the exact opposite reaction. She's been super good about self-quarantine herself for fear of getting the virus, and has been insanely critical of Trump, et Al for their response. She's also come completely around on Gavin Newsom's handling of the event.

We've had some...problems with her before, so I was worried that she would be even more challenging than usual, but it's been pleasant to see her react this way.

Vince, Pt. II 05-06-2020 10:23 AM

Dola: to be clear, the pleasantness I'm talking about is her embracing social distancing and keeping herself safe, not her political views/opinions.

RainMaker 05-06-2020 01:07 PM

Was just a matter of time.


Flasch186 05-06-2020 01:41 PM

Why not? The cons worked this far.

JonInMiddleGA 05-06-2020 01:55 PM

Steve Deace has been on a helluva roll lately. He nails my feelings on Trump's future possibly better than I could have myself, and with considerably less profanity than I would have resorted to.

Commentary: Trump is in danger of turning coronavirus into his Iraq - TheBlaze

edit to add: And I will say one thing about this piece: consider how infrequently I post in this thread, and consider that a sign of just how strongly this commentary must match my feelings.

IlliniCub 05-06-2020 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3279963)
Was just a matter of time.


"It turns out all those deaths were actually a result of the people stopped breathing"

thesloppy 05-06-2020 02:28 PM

There doesn't appear to be any rhyme or reason to any of the re-opening 'plans', which is tough to take confidence from. Florida and Georgia have re-opened while recording their highest death rates, over 50 per day, while Oregon has 100 covid deaths all-time and will probably stay locked down for another month.

CU Tiger 05-06-2020 02:37 PM

Not sure if better here or the covid thread, but...

This seems like a horrible hill to die on perceptionally for Cuomo:
Health workers that volunteered to come to NY during pandemic have to pay state income tax: Cuomo

At times I think the D wants Trump re-elected...

ISiddiqui 05-06-2020 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3279918)
Is it any wonder why such a disturbingly high percentage of Gen Z is in favor of socialism? The GOP keeps taking pretty good non-socialist ideas and saying "this is what socialism is." If I were young and impressionable, I'd start to think that if this is socialism, then sign me up.


I mean seriously.

These things don't even approach the Social Democracy in most European countries. The closest things to Socialism, to be honest, is using the Defense Production Act to mandate making of PPEs and keeping meat processing plants open.

And when the GOP goes the ACA is 'socialized medicine', then for some it's no big deal when someone proposes Medicare for All - because it's going to be called socialized medicine, rendering the term meaningless.

Edward64 05-06-2020 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CU Tiger (Post 3279983)
Not sure if better here or the covid thread, but...

This seems like a horrible hill to die on perceptionally for Cuomo:
Health workers that volunteered to come to NY during pandemic have to pay state income tax: Cuomo

At times I think the D wants Trump re-elected...


The article is a little tricky. I didn't read that Cuomo said out-of-state volunteers would have to pay NY state taxes.

But I do agree with you that if Cuomo did say/insists on it, it's pretty stupid and he deserves to be crushed for it.

molson 05-06-2020 02:55 PM

I would assume he means out-of state paid medical workers will have to pay taxes on their New York income.

Cities and states are so fucked, I don't think there's much of a choice there. Even good people in important jobs have to pay taxes, they're the ones most likely to still be working right now.

ISiddiqui 05-06-2020 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 3279992)
Cities and states are so fucked, I don't think there's much of a choice there. Even good people in important jobs have to pay taxes, they're the ones most likely to still be working right now.


Right and unlike the federal government, states can't issue debt to be able to run deficits in the same way, which further constrains them.

albionmoonlight 05-06-2020 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 3279974)
Steve Deace has been on a helluva roll lately. He nails my feelings on Trump's future possibly better than I could have myself, and with considerably less profanity than I would have resorted to.

Commentary: Trump is in danger of turning coronavirus into his Iraq - TheBlaze

edit to add: And I will say one thing about this piece: consider how infrequently I post in this thread, and consider that a sign of just how strongly this commentary must match my feelings.


I appreciate your sharing this perspective.

I don't think that Trump wants to lose in November. But I also wonder if he wants to be President anymore either. The job got a lot less fun around early March.

stevew 05-06-2020 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CU Tiger (Post 3279983)
Not sure if better here or the covid thread, but...

This seems like a horrible hill to die on perceptionally for Cuomo:
Health workers that volunteered to come to NY during pandemic have to pay state income tax: Cuomo

At times I think the D wants Trump re-elected...


Not really good to put a jock-type tax on health care professionals. Bad optics.

JPhillips 05-06-2020 03:40 PM

How should NY handle the tax? Lots of people from NJ and CT work in NY and pay taxes. How would you separate who does and who doesn't pay? Even if you want to change it, I'm sure it would take legislation.

cuervo72 05-06-2020 04:23 PM

I assume travel nurses have to deal with this as a matter of course.

CrimsonFox 05-06-2020 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3279997)
I appreciate your sharing this perspective.

I don't think that Trump wants to lose in November. But I also wonder if he wants to be President anymore either. The job got a lot less fun around early March.


all he's been doing is campaigning and playing up to the lowest common demoninator

JonInMiddleGA 05-06-2020 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3279997)
I appreciate your sharing this perspective.

I don't think that Trump wants to lose in November. But I also wonder if he wants to be President anymore either. The job got a lot less fun around early March.


I don't think he wants to lose, but I firmly believe he's done a shockingly steady job of putting himself in position to do just that with his erratic messaging in the past month particularly.

To me the key passage, while not as vividly described, in that commentary was this one

Quote:

My inbox is overrun with the types of voters Trump must have all of to win in November ...The vast majority of our audience are conservatives that would never show up at a rally, but would love to rally to him come November

If, say, 20% of his supporters stay home in November, he's done for. He's probably already put at least half that number in jeopardy -- feel free to consider me a prime example -- so his margin for error gets thinner by the day. I feel like he's taking too many of those votes for granted and that he's dead wrong in thinking they're guaranteed solely on his own strengths.

If Biden picks Abrams, yeah, I'll show up and vote for him anyway BUT if Sleepy Joe plays it safe, he may just win by default.

Lathum 05-06-2020 05:10 PM

I don't think Trump wants to be president anymore but he is way too much of an egomaniac to ever let anyone know.

cuervo72 05-06-2020 05:17 PM

If he doesn't have to do anything other than be on TV and give stuff to "friends" (or relatives) I think he's fine remaining president.

AlexB 05-06-2020 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 3280012)
I don't think he wants to lose, but I firmly believe he's done a shockingly steady job of putting himself in position to do just that with his erratic messaging in the past month particularly.

To me the key passage, while not as vividly described, in that commentary was this one



If, say, 20% of his supporters stay home in November, he's done for. He's probably already put at least half that number in jeopardy -- feel free to consider me a prime example -- so his margin for error gets thinner by the day. I feel like he's taking too many of those votes for granted and that he's dead wrong in thinking they're guaranteed solely on his own strengths.

If Biden picks Abrams, yeah, I'll show up and vote for him anyway BUT if Sleepy Joe plays it safe, he may just win by default.


That’s the exact thought I had reading your post before I got to the end - if he carries on like this the best Democrat strategy is to say and do nothing, and let him hoist his own petard.

tarcone 05-06-2020 06:10 PM

Imagine your Dad was a successful businessman who made 10s of millions of dollars. And you grew up in that environment. But you were not quite the businessman your Dad was, but you had a great personality, though and entitled one. You tried to work your magic and were somewhat successful. Though your personality only took you so far. Sometimes it wasnt enough and you lost tons of money. Then you discovered reality TV before it was really big, but you had the personality to make it work and your Daddies money to back you. And you were a popular guy on TV. Then you decided to run for president. And you won. And the people who you most wanted to be with were the ultra rich. Who do you think that president would be most likely to help?

Yeah, we are living in the movie Less Than Zero

RainMaker 05-06-2020 06:13 PM

The problem with the editorial is that I don't think Trump can "re-open" America. Nor can any Governor or Mayor. They can all get on TV, hold hands and proclaim "America is open for business!" and it won't matter.

What percent of people are going to sit down in a packed restaurant or theater as long as the virus is a threat? I love going to sporting events but I'm not sitting in a basketball arena with 20,000 other people right now. Nor am I going to see Guns N Roses at Wrigley Field in July despite how badly I've wanted to see them play in person.

Sure a segment of the population will do those things. If a hotspot pops up in their community, maybe they stop or think they fight through it. But it won't be enough people to turn the economy around or keep most businesses open.

The only way to open the economy is to get the virus under control so that people feel comfortable.

JPhillips 05-06-2020 07:02 PM

In an Economist poll, are you better off now than four years ago split 30 yes to 50 no.

albionmoonlight 05-06-2020 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3280038)
In an Economist poll, are you better off now than four years ago split 30 yes to 50 no.


What. . . what were those 30 people doing four years ago? Were they in prison? Who is saying that they are better off during a global pandemic?

Brian Swartz 05-06-2020 07:29 PM

While I think it's hogwash for that many people to say it … it would actually be true for me. That's mostly because of things I worked on during those years though. Just saying that there are some people for whom things are better, just like there were people who did well in the great recession or whatever. There's always outliers.

30%? Nah, that I'm not buying.

sterlingice 05-06-2020 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3280039)
What. . . what were those 30 people doing four years ago? Were they in prison? Who is saying that they are better off during a global pandemic?


Political cronies who went into medical supply price gouging?

SI

Brian Swartz 05-06-2020 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker
The only way to open the economy is to get the virus under control so that people feel comfortable.


Yup.

Ben E Lou 05-06-2020 07:54 PM

Wait. Isn’t 30/50 absolutely TERRIBLE??? Apart from a pandemic or coming out of a major time of recession/inflation, when that question is asked, “Yeah, I’m doing better” should be the default. When Reagan threw it out there in ‘80 and again in ‘84, it was “brilliant,” but when deconstructed, it was shown that in most times, it’s a yes for most people. My wife and I have the same jobs we had four years ago, but we have 48 more months worth of equity, 48 more months of paying down debt and increasing savings, just...48 more months of income. We haven’t gotten any huge raises or made any financial moves that “paid off” or that we should pat ourselves on the back over; we’ve just not had any terrible stuff happen.

JonInMiddleGA 05-06-2020 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3280029)
What percent of people are going to sit down in a packed restaurant or theater as long as the virus is a threat?


The difference in today's traffic here vs Monday's was dramatic. Compared to summer (which is fair since the university is emptied out) it was busier than normal. In a county that skews hard left.

In three separates outings - from pet stores to grocery to sit down dining -- this week I've seen literally one customer under 60 wearing a mask.

I've seen people elbow to elbow two dozen deep for a $20 burger at a (pseudo) food truck parked outside the (still 'officially' closed) gastro pub.

Get government the fuck out of the way and watch how quickly people return.

Lathum 05-06-2020 07:58 PM

Pandemic aside we are much better off then we were 4 years ago. We have more in savings, investment accounts up even in the current market. I was able to quit my job and stay home with the kids. Sold a house for a 6 figure profit, dumped it into the new house with a 2.99% interest rate, virtually no debt other than the 2019 BMW I lease, put money into college funds every month, and give more to charity.

All that being said I would go right back to where we were 4 years ago if it meant no Trump. The long term damage isn't worth my own personal gains.

PilotMan 05-06-2020 08:04 PM

Gonna throw this here, because it IS political.

Nate Silver on Twitter: "I would bet $538 that the White House's "cubic model" is literally just an MS-EXCEL trendline with a third-degree (cubic) polynomial.… https://t.co/Ks1EkV4BNX"


Ben Casselman on Twitter: "So @jimtankersley talked to Kevin Hassett about the whole "cubic model" mess, and long story short, I'm pretty sure Hassett owes @NateSilver538 $538.
https://t.co/wRDLk6KgyG https://t.co/cP6zsdVEuU… https://t.co/mrC1FxqokH"

Atocep 05-06-2020 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou (Post 3280047)
Wait. Isn’t 30/50 absolutely TERRIBLE??? Apart from a pandemic, when that question is asked, “Yeah, I’m doing better” should be the default. When Reagan threw it out there in ‘80 and again in ‘84, it was “brilliant,” but when deconstructed, it was shown that in most times, it’s a yes for most people. My wife and I have the same jobs we had four years ago, but we have 48 more months worth of equity, 48 more months of paying down debt and increasing savings, just...48 more months of income. We haven’t gotten any huge raises or made any financial moves that “paid off” or that we should pat ourselves on the back over; we’ve just not had any terrible stuff happen.


Trump has help up raises for me, has toyed with the idea of trying to break up our union, held my paycheck up for ransom to congress over the budget, and made my life a hell of a lot more difficult by freezing hiring as we transitioned to MHS Genesis and upgraded to Windows 10.

Despite that, we're better off. Not because anything Trump has done, but instead because I got a promotion when the person directly above me retired and my wife transitioned out of the Army and into the private sector.

Atocep 05-06-2020 08:15 PM


And based on any cubic model deaths will eventually become negative. So get ready for the zombie apocalypse. The very best zombie apocalypse.

Ben E Lou 05-06-2020 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3280052)
Trump has help up raises for me, has toyed with the idea of trying to break up our union, held my paycheck up for ransom to congress over the budget, and made my life a hell of a lot more difficult by freezing hiring as we transitioned to MHS Genesis and upgraded to Windows 10.

Despite that, we're better off. Not because anything Trump has done, but instead because I got a promotion when the person directly above me retired and my wife transitioned out of the Army and into the private sector.

Right, and I’m not saying our “doing better” has anything to do with anything Trump or Obama did or didn’t do. “Doing better as time passes” is the natural state of things for most folks under 55ish when things are just...normal.


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