The Florida governor today said that FL is, "God's waiting room," because of all of the nursing homes.

I've heard of people being fired from their jobs for saying that out loud as being incredibly rude and unthinking.

My answer is neither. There's a disagreement on how to handle the pandemic. Different states have different demographics, casualties, ideologies, and so on and are handling it differently. I mean, the Iowa governor saying something seriously means nothing by itself in terms of how the nation is feeling. Poll just within the last couple days in Texas - not New York, California, Mass, etc. - has 77% favoring the stay-at-home continuing even with hundreds of thousands unemployed.

Some are freaking out, but an overwhelming majority are saying 'this is the right path, let's keep doing it'.

Of course, despite that 77%, we're opening up the state on Friday.

SI

Thats the real problem here, the minority of the country holds a lot of powerful positions and is fucking the country over for their own benefit or in support of some sort of "anti-blue" battle cry.

its pathetic.

Many of us here suspected that when Justin Amash started getting all anti-Trump and left the Republican party he was trying out a run for President-looks like we were right:

Amash for America

Amash was anti-Trump long before he left the Republican party. He's just a conservative who stayed that way.

Or they just disagree with the current approach to the pandemic. There's a number of people I know personally who are typical apolitical but very upset about the shutdowns. Not to mention that the Republican party is hardly a minority in places like Iowa and Texas.

Not everything is some grand conspiracy. Sometimes well-meaning people simply disagree.

Great. *sigh*

It is always humorous to see how many politicians look at the world's problems, give them very serious thought, and decide that the most efficient and logical solution is "become President."

So what does an Amash run do? Pull enough republican votes to give Biden Michigan or pull independent votes and give it to Trump?

I'll give it some time, but I'm a motivated voter in a non-swing-state. I would be very open here to working out a deal to vote for Amash with my inconsequential ballot, in exchange for a swing state FOFCer who might do so otherwise agreeing to vote for the most viable non-Trump candidate.

If the idea is to help promote a viable libertarian party, without messing up this particular general election, I am totally down for that. I'm not wild about Amash top to bottom, but he's on a hot streak of being right when the chips were down, and if that can transfer to the LP, I'm game.

Not as catchy as "Nader Traders" - maybe we need a snappy hashtag. "Amash Wash" is a low bar to clear.

If he got the Libertarian nomination (and like Molson alluded to a few days ago he would still have to beat out Vermin Supreme :) ) he would as far as I know at least have "Not accused of rape" as a selling point that the two major party candidates don't have.

Yeah my plan for about the past 2-3 years has been to vote whoever the Democrats throw out but absent some sort of Kevin Costner movie scenario my vote might be better to Amash. My thing has always been about getting them in the debates anyways the pipe dream of them actually winning seems fairly unlikely.

The Justin's Credibles.

Am I correct in my recollection that to get federal money in the next election, a party has to do better than X% of the vote in this election?

5%, though the Libertarians taking federal funds would have a hint of irony.

Then isn't the long-game play for a 3rd party to go into an election openly shooting for that?

Say "Hey, if you are in a swing state, vote for whichever of the 2 major candidates you hate the least."

Then go to non-swing state areas with big populations (D.C., Maryland, Massachusetts, Illinois, Texas, NY, California) and run an explicit "Hey, your vote won't count if you vote for one of the two major candidates, but if you do want your vote to count, vote for me and help us get above 5%. Then, next election, we will have the funds to start building something).

As they would tell you, they pay their taxes so why shouldn't they get their share of government waste?

Kushner might as well have been standing in front of a Mission Accomplished banner.


and more

So much winning:

Kevin Hassett: Unemployment could hit 20% by June

Did I miss the oath of enlistment/commission that the meat plant workers took in service to the country?

It's probably somewhere in the Constitution. Right to have plentiful meat available.

Really, nothing matters:

It meant that the rally round the flag that governors and other foreign leaders got for huge boosts is good for about 3 points for him. When every play is to please your base, 42 up, 53 down is where you always are.

I kept thinking that Trump's best play would have been to actually be competent.

But he's better at politics than I am. He realized that he just needed to stand up and decree himself competent, and he could keep that 42% he needs to win the EC

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

"According to the poll, Biden beat Trump by 12 percentage points head-to-head, but when Amash was added to the field, his lead dropped to 6 percentage points."https://t.co/6zDvN7JWy1

Third-party candidates help Trump. Sadly, they just do. https://t.co/x222fdsLS3

— Mehdi Hasan (@mehdirhasan) April 29, 2020

This is probably the depression talking (been a rough few days), but I'm looking to November with dread.

If Trump wins, we might as well start preparing for the USA to break up into smaller regional blocs. (which I'm sure would be fine with Putin and China). We're getting to the point that our system can't take another four years of this.

Part of it is I don't trust Trump (well, on anything), but specifically on how to build a stable pattern of growth at the end of the pandemic. It seems more and more we're getting into a hyper late-stage capitalist breakdown where all that matter's is the Stock Market average. Not the general quality of life among Americans. Not for wealth inequality. Not for people to have to choose between working in an unsafe environment (where steps COULD be taken to improve the environment) and losing all benefits and ability to survive.

Throughout the last few decades, we've been told "The Free Market will fix this (for example, the unsafe working environments). People will go out of business, but people will rise up and take their place.". Here's the thing. The Free Market doesn't fix this. Why? Because when the "Free Market"decides something should go out of business, our politicians (mainly R's, but a lot of D's too) decide that having the Free Market fix it would be too dangerous so they step in.

Or, to put it in a pithy way.. "We socialism the losses away, but we capitalism the profits".

Get your official White House Corona Virus Commenerative Coins today while sale prices last!

https://www.whitehousegiftshop.com/p...vid-heroes.htm

While the use of past tense just makes me angry as hell, the one on the left is just an Extension of those bloody cheesy "america is so awesome, that is why we fight so well and would you look at that navy ship, isn't it glorious ?" videos they publish, but the Task Force one :lol:

I mean, according to Trump this is his war. It's just, ya know, you usually commemorate something after it's well behind us. Not in the middle of something that's already killed at least 50,000.

But this all makes sense as a political move.

The story now is that this is over and we won and it was because Trump was such a good leader.

And if that is your story, then you just keep telling it over and over until the media starts repeating it.

And if you can make a few bucks selling coins on the side? Why not?

I'm very curious where the White House gift shop money goes.

FYI, that huckster website is not affiliated with the hucksters in the actual White House. They just got a clever url and fool gullible people.

I missed that.

Makes my comment above not quite relevant.

Thanks for the catch.

WTF Is The White House Gift Shop? A TPM Special Report | Talking Points Memo


I love the USA.gov logo at the bottom of the website to make it look authentic. And looking at the differences in the gift pages for Trump vs Obama is interesting. A Melania Trump bobblehead?

The guy behind that is making a killing. These things cost at most a couple bucks to make each.

Also guessing all these "signed items" are forgeries.

WTF, wow

Is Amash officially in the Libertarian Party now? He would be the first I believe ever in Congress.

Listening to his interview, it's clear what path he is going to take. Basically shredded the latest bills as a massive giveaway to big businesses by both the Democrats and Republicans.

No chance he is competitive but I can see him pulling a few percent. Especially if the economy is still in the crapper and all the public has seen is a $1200 check while big businesses are rolling in cash.

Modern day Tesla

Based on current trends, probably close to zero new cases in US too by end of April

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) March 19, 2020

Trump keeps saying the virus is going away.

Clap hard enough and Tinkerbell won't die.

A lot of you guys are smarter than me. So, tell me if I am right or wrong here.

We have 4 times as many people with this virus than any other country. That seems like a lot to me. If we had reacted to the warning signs sooner, things would be much better.

So, I can only think that our government failed us. Had Trump taken this more seriously in the Jan/Feb, I won't think we would be in this boat.

I believe I would feel the same way if the situation was the same and Hilary was POTUS.

I also believe if anyone else was POTUS, it wouldn't be this bad.

How can any sane person think he should be POTUS for 4 more years? It puzzles the hell out of me.

Since you seem to be genuinely searching for a response...


I think this is the weak link in your train of thought, as far as the answer to your question. See, you have Trump Derangement Syndrome, and you see everything he does as wrong and evil, because (I presume) the lamestream media has poisoned your mind, or because you attended college classes or... well, something akin to that.

Once you understand that, the entire chain of logic falls apart, and your opinion may be jettisoned without any further thought.

And it's how we went from "death panels" to "how much longer do you expect to live anyway?" in 12 years.

We don't know this. We might have 30x as many as any other country. There also might be 10 countries with more than we do. The state of testing here and worldwide does not allow for any confidence in the current amount of confirmed cases being remotely accurate.


I agree with this, but it's on the states as well as Trump (though somewhat more on him). Our response has been all over the map.


Nah. Look at what's happened in Spain, the UK, Italy, etc. Maybe others would have done better, but I think it's easy to second-guess what we should have done (decades ago frankly). 90% + of the whole world was unprepared, and that's true of nations of every imaginable ideological bent.

In terms of the wanting Trump to stick around thing - as I've said before, there are a number of normally apolitical people I know who are really, really upset about the shutdowns. And not just because of how it affects them, they think it's fundamentally immoral and unAmerican to forcibly put people out of work, take away their rights to manage their own risks, etc. I'm not with them at all as I've said, and the polls have shown most people think these actions are necessary - but those who don't aren't just a little ticked off, they're freaking furious. Then there's a whole other group of people who care about nothing but the economy and (wrongly) think Trump is responsible for it being relatively good up till now. And then there's other classes of people who think Trump's better on their issues …

like most things, it's a lot more complicated that 'Trump screwed up the virus response' - even though he most definitely did

There is a bogus coin site that operates under a really similar name to the US Mint as well that I have been nearly tricked by due to his site set-up, location after a google search etc.

There was a period of time between late Jan (or Feb 2 or 3 when NYT and WP said it was going to be a pandemic, essentially MSM warning the country) through 3rd week in March (soon after his Wed "I can't read speech") where I think he really failed.

During that 4-5-6 week period, he could have mobilized the "troops" better and been more empathetic, prepared the country. Instead he was denying and adding to the confusion.

The big miss to me was the lack of testing kits. The story is somehow CDC messed it up but I haven't really read what happen, who is accountable, and (most importantly) could Trump have made a difference if he had really taken it seriously.

He does get blame. He doesn't get all the blame.

On the off chance you wanted to be even more confused.

Trump perceived as abnormally sadistic and narcissistic by both conservatives and liberals, study finds

"He's hurting the people who deserve to be hurt"

A Trump voter hurt by the shutdown’s incredibly revealing quote - Vox

Yeah, the sadism is what they like.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-point/572104/

I've never warmed up to "the cruelty is the point," but reading those back to back, I guess I get the flavor of it. Just hard to imagine that's really the driving force of a winning movement in this country, but there I go again sounding like a fucking rube.

I hear these kinds of comments from Trump supporters all the time. The level of hatred is uncomfortable.

I'm someone who really wants to believe the best in people - a certain childish naivete that helps me sleep at night. But these last few years have really made me question a lot of that. And it's from people who superficially have life pretty good. That's the part that I don't get. I almost understand why people who have nothing would revel in the misery of others. I mean, I don't, but I kindof do. The jealousy and contempt would make more sense to me. But these are people for whom life appears good, looking for a target for their contempt and to blame their "awful" lot in life. I just don't get it.

SI

It's fear of losing white privilege. That's all this is really about.

Watch the movie "Us". I think it explains a lot of what's happening and the unconstrained here and now that has afforded people the ability to unleash their innermost demons onto the world without societal restraint.

Nominally about fighting the COVID crisis, but since it's so deeply laced with grift and criminality, I'll drop it in the Trump thread...

Coronavirus: A Tweet At Trump Landed Him Money For Ventilators

This is fine.

Right. He didn't have to shut down during this phase, but buying stockpiles of PPE, trying to get on top of testing (best they could), would have helped immensely. Maybe even have discussions with Governors about this - coordinate information between CDC and state epidemiologists. A lot of prepwork could have been done during this time.

Re-reading this, and while I know it's "take-the-reader-by-the-hand" analysis, I am getting that "game slows down" moment from it. God dammit.

Trump floating the idea of letting Americans sue China or renouncing debt held by China.

It's always safest to assume Trump is just raging and nothing will happen, but if either of these things come to pass, how long until China starts seizing the assets and properties of American companies?

Even if he had the ventilators, isn't there a law against price gouging? I keep seeing articles about states buying masks for 10x the price and ventilators for $30k more each.

How is that not price gouging?

There's laws against lots of things.

"It must be nice . . . it must be nice, to have the President on your side . . ."

I am in contact with government leaders every day, and right now most of them are saying "just buy the stuff, we don't have time to worry about whether they're pirates or profiteers... we just need PPE/tests for our front line staff." Normal procurement is out the window, because you're at very high risk of suppliers welching on their agreements (you agree to pay 6X the regular price, but they stumble into someone with 8x)... and then you have to make unusual delivery arrangements for fear of the federal government identifying and confiscating your incoming equipment (yes, this is a real thing, especially with large shipments).

A good way to rid ourselves of these ghouls would seem to be kicking their doors in and hauling them away in cuffs. Alert the media and I bet you'd have a lot fewer.

Part of today's demonstration at the Michigan Statehouse seems to be a children's minstrel show.

Now this is happening. pic.twitter.com/w1CkLB3T3s

— Leon Hendrix (@LeonHendrix) April 30, 2020

Pulling from the Covid thread, but it was asked here is there anything you can praise President Trump for. "Operation Warp Speed" is it for me. Try to get a vaccine as fast possible. Have the government fund and coordinate the effort. That is finally some semblance of leadership. Of course, it is basically praise Trump for what I believe any president would do, but still.

Can't wait to inject something in my body from this administration called operation warp speed. What could possibly go wrong?

So they put a girl up there in a black face mask with what I assume in a Trump mask on the other one, while someone screamed at them to "take it off" and they are how old again? Fucking stellar.

You know it's one thing to have gotten on a political donor list and get bombarded with emails from all kinds of groups supporting your political bent, it's another to also somehow get on another list for the opposing party at the same time. It's not like I DON'T HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO OTHER THAN DELETE EMAILS ALL DAY LONG! And how exactly did I get on both anyway? I am going to blame my State Rep who mistook my letter bitching about the CARES act screwing over 17+ families, as support for his dumbass opposition to it. Fuck that guy.

I have an evangelical friend who I do breakfast with once in a while. But with coronavirus, we've been texting here and there. He is the equivalent of some of the more extreme left-wing folks in this forum except he is the right-wing version.

Trump has no fault. Every negative story is manipulated by the liberal MSM. He sends me gifs & videos that defends Trump and craps on the liberals. He has pithy responses that often time redirects and doesn't answer my question or goes off on a tangent ... etc. You get the idea.

(I've taken the liberty to encapsulate our discussions over the past week or so)

I tell him that I like some of Trump's policies and don't like some of his policies (and I've named them before).

That I agree that MSM like Anderson Cooper is "stunned" way too often, that I used to really enjoy Morning Joe but now its just a continuous bitch-fest etc. and there are biases on both sides with Fox's "fair and balanced" misnomer.

But that Trump as a man and leader is horrible and narcissistic. And that the big J would have "loved the sinner" but hated the "sins = words, actions, deeds". I basically asked him WWJD or think about the unquestioning evangelical (and mentioned mostly white evangelical) and his support for Trump?

He went on to say he disagreed with some of the stuff the Trump does. My reply was never has he ever said anything negative about Trump, his words, actions, deeds.

After some additional exchanges, tangents and mis-direction on my main question e.g. he talked more about Jesus loving the sinners and King David's faults etc. I told him "let's agree to disagree" (yeah, I'm equal opportunity here in using the phrase) and that texting was no longer productive.

I told him I wanted him to research (and not just Foxnews) and come up with a list of things he did not like about Trump and ask the question whether Jesus, although he would have loved the sinner, would have wanted my friend to support Trump's words, actions & deeds.

He said he would do it. It'll be an interesting conversation then.


FWIW. Sharing this story because I was thinking about this forum where many of you think I'm way too right-wing and my friend thinking I was way too left-wing. Sounds about right since I consider myself middle of the road and "fair and balanced".

So don't take any umbrage at me asking some of you Trump bashers to consider things that you agree with Trump on. Because I do same with my right-wing friend but in the other direction.

Economic anxiety

Preproduction of vaccines is a good thing, but I’ll wait to see if it actually happens before I get too excited. This is an admin that loves vapor ware.

I understand why both candidates are hammering China for votes but do they realize if China comes up with a vaccine first, pissing them off would not be a good idea.

1 - If China tried any shenanigans like that, and actually, even if they don't, every halfway decent spy agency on the planet will have a sample of it within a week anyway.

2 - There'd be a larrrrrge swath of people who wouldn't trust a Chinese developed vaccine for this, and frankly, I can't blame them.

You should see where most of our prescription drugs come from. If they don't trust the Chinese, they are in trouble.

The sample doesn't matter, it is about production. We don't have the capacity here. If they are pumping out vaccines for their citizens and other nations, how far would that put us behind economically?

Yeah, but apparently some Democrat did something bad at some point over the last 20 years. So, you know, both sides.

No, I'm well aware. I'm saying specifically for this and only this vaccine.

On the other hand, I was incredibly confused by the quote Fozzie quoted - until I realized he missed the word "not"!... I was seriously trying to figure out how the average MAGA voter had convinced themselves they weren't being hurt by this, but gladly I guess even they aren't that deluded or brainwashed.

Here's a question. Why can a bunch of angry white gun coward terrorists be outside a government building waving guns cowardly and not get shot when someone else can hold a toy or just be inside their house not holding anything or just wear a hoodie and get shot and killed?

asking for a friend

So you think they should be shot or something?

How are they terrorists?

What would happen is a bunch of muslims did that with hijabs on their heads? Lets not act like this isn't white privilege at its worst.

It might be nice if maybe they thought they might BE shot.

Hogan having to lock 500k tests in an undisclosed location protected by the police and the national guard is peak this administration.

Because there is safety in numbers and those people who think it makes them look tough are still less threatening to the average group of police officers than one teenager in a hoodie is to one bad officer?

A GOP governor even

SI

I must have missed it, so enlighten me. Where did it happen that muslims assembled to protest and were en masse arrested/shot for having the temerity to do so?


I'm beyond disgusted here. The words fail me to describe how reprehensible this is.

Either you don't get what I'm saying, or I am a terrible human being and I don't get what you're saying here.

I believe that there's a massive, massive difference, between peacefully assembling to protest, and doing the same thing, while armed with automatic weapons in what can only be described as a 'show of strength'. The intent of the latter is to intimidate through force and fear. If there was a fear that they might be shot for doing so, they might do so in a different manner. The first example is NOT protesting with an intent to intimidate through fear, and therefore no fear of any sort of issue.

I'm sorry, that that sort of protest is just complete and total bullshit. It's not safe, legal or not. It's not valuable except to prove that you have a gun and if you do, you're willing to use it, and if you're willing to use it, then you're willing to take lives. If you're (in general) the kind of a person who is walking into a public place and willing to take lives, and you're the person who instigated that situation then you have no respect for the situation, you have no respect for others and you're certainly not worthy of mine. Hence, why not have a good ol fashioned Gunfight at the OK right there in the Capitol. I mean, it's legal to look like that's what you want, so why not just go ahead and accept that next level of responsibility?

Gimme a break dude, if you don't see the oozing white privilege you are being willfully ignorant.

If you really think all things being equal except skin color that the reaction would be the same I don't know what to tell you, except you need to get out more.

Was the same in parts of Germany in march when restaurants were first allowed to stay open but under impossible to meet restrictions.

Interesting POV...

I know lots of Trumpers in Michigan. I know lots of gun owners in Michigan. I know lots of people upset w/ the govt in Michigan.

Not one would bring a gun to the statehouse. GOP leaders would be wise to renounce this fringe lest they lose every suburban mom from Oakland to Kent.

— Tim Alberta (@TimAlberta) May 1, 2020

I'm with you, I'm not sure what the discussion point is in re: white privilege. Maybe its the 2 girls dancing with the Trump & Obama masks, no idea what the heck that was ... clip was short and I was not able to find the "meaning/intent" of it with my cursory googling.

I'm sure color plays a factor some but its not the only factor and I contend not the most important factor ... its more gun ownership and why many protesters felt the need to carry semi-automatic weapons.

I read PM's response below yours. I don't agree with his "quip" about it would be different if protesters "thought they may be shot" but I do agree the protests with semi-automatic weapons were to intimidate. He proposes it was to intimidate through "force and fear", I would put it as intimidate by "reminding of individual rights" e.g. owning a weapon. Regardless of the different nuance, I disapprove of protesting with open carry weapons.

I'm glad to see they've got good (trigger) finger discipline.

There are times in movie scenes where I say there's no way they would be holding weapons that way.




After looking at more pics, there seems to be a good cross section of men, women, kids, boomers, millennials, and many without guns. All white though. My guess is folks with guns at the protests were the very very few minority.

China Spends $600 Billion To Trump America’s Economy

Interesting article about CHina's economy now and its focus compared to ours.

Those sure are good pictures of terrorists and lol they are wearing masks hahahahaha

pick an ethos for christ's sake

Hey troll, there are other individual rights including the right to assemble and free speech that they were also reminding everyone of. Carrying large guns to a protest that has nothing to do with gun ownership is pretty much simply trying to intimidate. Don't give them too much credit in the nuance, but of course you may want me to provide you 500 links and define nuance and intimidate.

Lots of red hats also, but I am sure that's just Red Wings hats.

It's close to ohio , they are reds fans.
Certainly wouldn't be tigers fans

I am impressed by the level of empathy these protesters are getting in this case. I am disturbed by the way law enforcement personnel don’t seem to be following standard procedures for aggressive acting protesters. I was always told the standard procedures were a bit different when other widely discussed protests are brought. Maybe they are not aggressive at all and it is just my bias.

Right.

I'm sure it was the goal of these constitutional scholars to just remind their elected leaders of their constitutional rights. Poor white guys always having their rights trampled.

Had nothing to do with having a chance to show off their shiny guns and live out their army man fantasy.