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AENeuman 07-12-2018 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3211454)
In case there's any doubt whether Trump is a white nationalist,


I think this is a big a deal, but of course it’s no big deal. I just can’t see how one could not be a white nationalist a still align with this guy. There has to be a limit to tribalism right? Right?

SackAttack 07-13-2018 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AENeuman (Post 3211459)
I think this is a big a deal, but of course it’s no big deal. I just can’t see how one could not be a white nationalist a still align with this guy. There has to be a limit to tribalism right? Right?


The thing about tribalism is that it walks hand in glove with otherism. When your worldview is constructed around "us" versus "others," the tribe ends up getting a long damn leash.

Edward64 07-13-2018 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack (Post 3211458)
Yes. You note the plural there? No one of them is solely responsible. If there are more than one, then any given one is "a" key, not "the" key.

Get rid of NATO, the WTO, and other parts of the post-WW2 order, and the EU by itself ain't gonna do shit. But European integration in general is how you avoid world-spanning conflicts.

When Europe ignites, the world burns.


So you do not think that the UN is a better substitute than the EU as the third leg?

Faults and all, I think its a more respected institution globally when you are talking about Africa, Asia (not sure about South/Latin America). I see getting rid of NATO and WTO and the UN still has a chance to "do shit" by itself.

Edward64 07-13-2018 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3211447)
My favorite part of the whole Strzok debacle is when (D) Gerry Connolly read emails to him where the writer said negative things about Trump during the election, and asked him if he wrote them. After he said no, he revealed who did write them-all Republican members of Congress.

Found a link for it: At FBI Agent's Hearing, Congressman Shades Republicans Who Also Criticized Trump | HuffPost


That's pretty funny.

I wanted to see the reaction of the GOP members while this exchange was happening. I found a video but it didn't pan to the other members unfortunately.

Gerry Connolly on Twitter: "Republicans seem obsessed with Peter Strzok's texts about Donald Trump so I read theirs. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
#Receipts #RussianShowTrial… https://t.co/3z9hKek8A0"

Edward64 07-13-2018 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3211439)
I think the context was, he was complaining that what he said wasn't nearly as bad as Col. Sanders using the N word. I don't see that as being some sort of acceptance of the use - although, as mentioned previously, he was stupid to even say it, and his point was not all that persuasive.


I've not read where this was a pattern with him? If not a pattern and it happened as stated below, definitely stupid and insensitive, but not sure it rises to him being a racist/racial slur.

The article did say the other company on the phone moved to terminate its contract with Papa John's which indicates it may have been very bad e.g. what we read doesn't convey the tone, length of the discussion etc. Kudo's to the company on stepping away from what I assume to be a lucrative deal on principle.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/noahkir.../#781c9d844cfc
Quote:

John Schnatter—the founder and public face of pizza chain Papa John’s—used the N-word on a conference call in May. Schnatter confirmed the incident in an emailed statement to Forbes on Wednesday. He resigned as chairman of Papa John's on Wednesday evening.

The call was arranged between Papa John’s executives and marketing agency Laundry Service. It was designed as a role-playing exercise for Schnatter in an effort to prevent future public-relations snafus. Schnatter caused an uproar in November 2017 when he waded into the debate over national anthem protests in the NFL and partly blamed the league for slowing sales at Papa John’s.

On the May call, Schnatter was asked how he would distance himself from racist groups online. He responded by downplaying the significance of his NFL statement. “Colonel Sanders called blacks n-----s,” Schnatter said, before complaining that Sanders never faced public backlash.

Schnatter also reflected on his early life in Indiana, where, he said, people used to drag African-Americans from trucks until they died. He apparently intended for the remarks to convey his antipathy to racism, but multiple individuals on the call found them to be offensive, a source familiar with the matter said. After learning about the incident, Laundry Service owner Casey Wasserman moved to terminate the company’s contract with Papa John’s.

In an emailed statement on Wednesday afternoon, Schnatter confirmed the allegations. "News reports attributing the use of inappropriate and hurtful language to me during a media training session regarding race are true," he said. "Regardless of the context, I apologize. Simply stated, racism has no place in our society."

Ksyrup 07-13-2018 07:12 AM

Sounds like a guy whose inability to communicate suggests his place is in the kitchen.

Jukeman 07-13-2018 07:30 AM

Thanks Trump! I just got laid off.

https://www.wtnh.com/news/internatio...s-1/1297547162


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JPhillips 07-13-2018 08:12 AM

This new GOP standard of investigators can't show any bias against those they are investigating is going to have profound impacts at the state and local level.

Kodos 07-13-2018 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3211474)
This new GOP standard of investigators can't show any bias against those they are investigating is going to have profound impacts at the state and local level.


I guess police can no longer investigate black people then.

bronconick 07-13-2018 11:15 AM

Mueller indicts a dozen Russians for hacking the DNC days before Trump goes to meet his boss in Helsinki.

JPhillips 07-13-2018 11:16 AM

Mueller indicts a dozen Russian intelligence folks, including naming Guccifer 2.0.

Roger Stone has already admitted to emailing Guccifer. They're getting closer.

JPhillips 07-13-2018 11:31 AM

Oh my. Indictment says a member of Congress contacted Guccifer 2.0 and asked for stolen documents in August 2016.

bronconick 07-13-2018 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3211481)
Mueller indicts a dozen Russian intelligence folks, including naming Guccifer 2.0.

Roger Stone has already admitted to emailing Guccifer. They're getting closer.





I imagine Stone flipped a while ago

Ksyrup 07-13-2018 11:33 AM

This is brilliant:


SackAttack 07-13-2018 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3211465)
So you do not think that the UN is a better substitute than the EU as the third leg?

Faults and all, I think its a more respected institution globally when you are talking about Africa, Asia (not sure about South/Latin America). I see getting rid of NATO and WTO and the UN still has a chance to "do shit" by itself.


My dude, I deal with goalpost-moving shit enough with my parents. I do not need it from you.

SackAttack 07-13-2018 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3211465)
So you do not think that the UN is a better substitute than the EU as the third leg?

Faults and all, I think its a more respected institution globally when you are talking about Africa, Asia (not sure about South/Latin America). I see getting rid of NATO and WTO and the UN still has a chance to "do shit" by itself.


Look, no, you know what?

The UN is not a "more respected institution" globally. It isn't any kind of a model for integration, particularly because the Security Council is essentially a giant pissing contest. Any of the permanent members can veto anything that comes before the Council, so it's essentially been a proxy for national interest power games between the US and Russia/the USSR for the last 70 years.

That doesn't mean it doesn't have a place in the world order, but the EU is better for European stability than the UN, as currently constituted, ever could be.

Next time try to focus on what's being discussed instead of moving goalposts. That's obnoxious.

BishopMVP 07-13-2018 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3211467)
I've not read where this was a pattern with him? If not a pattern and it happened as stated below, definitely stupid and insensitive, but not sure it rises to him being a racist/racial slur.

The article did say the other company on the phone moved to terminate its contract with Papa John's which indicates it may have been very bad e.g. what we read doesn't convey the tone, length of the discussion etc. Kudo's to the company on stepping away from what I assume to be a lucrative deal on principle.

I don't think he has a pattern of racist statements, but he definitely has a pattern of saying really dumb things (and quite possibly being either an alcoholic or a lush).

Also, maybe it was partly a moral stand, but I also assume as a marketing/PR agency they just realized "holy shit, if this is how he talks when we're trying to explain to him how to handle the issue with the media, it's only a matter of time until he gets embroiled in new controversies" and the headache/potential damage to their reputation having a client like that just isn't worth the contract.

Ksyrup 07-13-2018 12:18 PM

Yeah, the PR firm leaving seemed to be more of the same "we're just cutting our losses now before we get caught up in the zero tolerance/knee jerk reaction crowd" momentum. Their comment was something along the lines of differing with him on how to address his PR difficulties.

Edward64 07-13-2018 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack (Post 3211487)
Next time try to focus on what's being discussed instead of moving goalposts. That's obnoxious.


I'm not sure I understand your "moving goal post" statement. I guess its because you think I snuck UN in there? My original response in #11177 was:

Quote:

NATO relevance has declined but since we are in a pseudo/beginnings of a new cold war, I'll buy it. I can also see WTO with a process to resolve economic/trade issues.

EU goes a little too far. Regional peace maybe but don't see global peace. I would put the UN before the EU.

Edward64 07-13-2018 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP (Post 3211488)
Also, maybe it was partly a moral stand, but I also assume as a marketing/PR agency they just realized "holy shit, if this is how he talks when we're trying to explain to him how to handle the issue with the media, it's only a matter of time until he gets embroiled in new controversies" and the headache/potential damage to their reputation having a client like that just isn't worth the contract.


Good point. Probably some moral and also some business sense in cutting their losses early.

RainMaker 07-13-2018 12:24 PM

Must be a coincidence.



RainMaker 07-13-2018 12:25 PM

Sure seems like collusion to me.


Edward64 07-13-2018 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3211493)
Sure seems like collusion to me.


Any idea who is the "person" in "... person who was in regular contact with senior members of the presidential campaign"?

digamma 07-13-2018 12:38 PM

Roger Stone

RainMaker 07-13-2018 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3211495)
Any idea who is the "person" in "... person who was in regular contact with senior members of the presidential campaign"?


Probably Roger Stone. He's admitted to talking with Guccifer. Even posted screenshots of their conversations on his website.

cartman 07-13-2018 12:41 PM

Based on the names in Mueller's indictment today, we can safely call the investigation a vich hunt.

Ksyrup 07-13-2018 02:59 PM

NYT Headline:

Louisville Might Rename Papa John's Stadium After Racial Slur


I know I don't have a vote, but that seems like the wrong decision...:D

BishopMVP 07-13-2018 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman (Post 3211500)
Based on the names in Mueller's indictment today, we can safely call the investigation a vich hunt.

Oof.

Also, has the term spearphishing been around for a while now? That's a pretty cool one.

RainMaker 07-13-2018 05:13 PM

Lot of corporate welfare for the Pence family.

Report: Pence family's failed gas stations cost taxpayers $20 million - CBS News

Thomkal 07-13-2018 09:42 PM

I think with the new indictments out today, things are going to be moving very quickly on Trump/Russia. Rumor is that the Freedom Caucus is going to impeach Rosenstein may be as soon as Monday, we'll have to see what Mueller has planned if that happens:


http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...in-soon-report

Edward64 07-13-2018 09:52 PM

Stephen Colbert had a pretty funny monologue. The link had some video of the exchanges. I think the best ones was at approx. 5:46 and 10:00

https://www.salon.com/2018/07/13/wat...ional-hearing/

Oh yeah, I could definitely see the smirk.


.

sabotai 07-13-2018 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3211499)
Even posted screenshots of their conversations on his website.


Made me immediately think of this scene from the Wire (NSFW, obviously): Criminal Conspiracy Notes - YouTube

Atocep 07-13-2018 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3211526)
I think with the new indictments out today, things are going to be moving very quickly on Trump/Russia. Rumor is that the Freedom Caucus is going to impeach Rosenstein may be as soon as Monday, we'll have to see what Mueller has planned if that happens:


http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...in-soon-report


Would be a dumb move by the GOP. Zero chance the impeachment would ever be successful and would likely help Dems quite a bit in mid-terms.

The fact that trump is the person the Republicans are ready to die on a hill for is so strange.

Julio Riddols 07-13-2018 10:31 PM

I'd do anything for a chance to vote for a Republican who actually gives a damn about an America that extends beyond the future their eyes will see. A real Republican, one from the days when the Democrats were all about small government.

It confuses me how that switch even happened.

Radii 07-14-2018 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3211526)
Rumor is that the Freedom Caucus is going to impeach Rosenstein may be as soon as Monday



I'm not usually the activist type, but I'm ready to go on this:

https://act.moveon.org/event/mueller...events/search/

Thomkal 07-14-2018 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii (Post 3211537)
I'm not usually the activist type, but I'm ready to go on this:

https://act.moveon.org/event/mueller...events/search/



thanks for the link. Nice to see some advance organizing on this.

JPhillips 07-14-2018 09:41 AM

The way those indictments lay out names, times, even search terms used, should scare the shit out of all the Trump folks.

They did it and Mueller knows how.

PilotMan 07-14-2018 05:25 PM

Was Giuliani out on the talk circuit today (or will be he tomorrow)? If not, I think we might have some guesses as to why.



I'm trying not to speculate about what we don't know, just to keep from having an expectation about what might be there. So it's quite eye opening when these little bits come out about what they do know, and it seems to be much more detailed than I was expecting.

Thomkal 07-14-2018 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan (Post 3211575)
Was Giuliani out on the talk circuit today (or will be he tomorrow)? If not, I think we might have some guesses as to why.



I'm trying not to speculate about what we don't know, just to keep from having an expectation about what might be there. So it's quite eye opening when these little bits come out about what they do know, and it seems to be much more detailed than I was expecting.



Latest tweet from him was this today. None of the regular tweeters I follow are talking about him being on any talk shows that I can see:


"Congressman Steve Cohen wants to give biased renegade Agent Strzok the Purple Heart. Now he wants to impeach the President even though DOJ disclosed that the latest indictments yield no evidence of American involvement. This is pathological.:


Appararently, he's been off twitter since 2016.

Thomkal 07-14-2018 10:05 PM

So some idiot on Twitter posted a picture of a rally in London supporting Tommy Robinson (white supremacist) and Trump, claiming it was larger than the anti-Trump rally, and won't be covered by MSM as a result. Of course it would help if the picture was in London. It's not, its in Cairo Egypt and has a lot of people praying..and not to Trump I can guarantee.

JPhillips 07-15-2018 07:50 AM

lol

Schnatters defense is that he got in trouble because he wouldn't say n!@#@!

Quote:

“Believe it or not, Terry, the agency was promoting that vocabulary, and that [word]. And I made it real clear, listen, we’re not gonna go there, we’re not gonna talk about this. And they pushed me and it upset me, and I just said ‘listen, other people have used that word. I don’t, and will not use that word and people at Papa John’s don’t use that.’ And that was the comment. But they actually wanted to get into that vocabulary, and I said absolutely not.

Atocep 07-15-2018 01:01 PM

A glimpse into why Republicans have been throwing a fit over Sacha Baron Cohen's new show.

https://www.esquire.com/entertainmen...merica-review/

Thomkal 07-15-2018 03:01 PM

Interesting article on the British investigation into the ties between Cambridge Analytca, Facebook, the Leave EU campaign, and Trump/Russia:


Elizabeth Denham: ‘Data crimes are real crimes’ | UK news | The Guardian

RainMaker 07-15-2018 03:59 PM

You should really read through the indictment. It's fascinating in how advanced Russia is in cyber warfare. Much further ahead than we are.

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/13/175688...ment-full-text

I thought one of the interesting things was how they took defunct local papers and created Facebook pages for them. Then linked out to legit stories and built up followings. Like the Chicago Daily News hasn't existed since the 70's but still had a semi-recognizable name. They got a lot of followers.

https://blockclubchicago.org/2018/07...ricans-report/

PilotMan 07-15-2018 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3211654)
You should really read through the indictment. It's fascinating in how advanced Russia is in cyber warfare. Much further ahead than we are.




They have been actively using, learning, and adapting cyber war with the Ukraine for well over a decade, in the field. There's next to no risk for them in that battle. I'm guessing that the US has some pretty good work behind the scenes too, but I'd rather just know it's there and not hear about it in a world court or in Newsweek.

jeff061 07-15-2018 06:41 PM

Yeah, part of being good at this stuff is not having your successes and techniques known by everyone in the world.

I doubt they are more advanced than the US and I'm sure most of America's exploits remain unknown.

Galaril 07-16-2018 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff061 (Post 3211669)
Yeah, part of being good at this stuff is not having your successes and techniques known by everyone in the world.

I doubt they are more advanced than the US and I'm sure most of America's exploits remain unknown.


Correct.

digamma 07-16-2018 11:07 AM

That was quite the Q&A session. Not sure how you go to work tomorrow if you are Dan Coates or others in intelligence.

whomario 07-16-2018 12:33 PM

So the american president just pretty much sold out all american intelligence agencies and sided with the foreign power at fault based on a single one on one talk. And Germany is the one wholly in Russia's pocket he said :lol:

Thomkal 07-16-2018 12:44 PM

And Putin said he wanted Trump to win.


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