Pandemics is one of the those potential crises that nobody has been listening to the experts on for a long time. We've known something like this was possible for quite a while and anybody of either party who proposed spending more on preventative measures would have been laughed at/ignored at best. It wasn't a priority for anyone, and other countries are in a similar plight who have better leaders.

Trump deserves his share of the blame, and he's certainly been self-serving and incompetent throughout this ordeal, but there's plenty to go around. What we need to learn from this is far bigger than the current POTUS, that's just the tip of the iceberg.

It was more a trite commentary on how questionable the reliability of their cars are

It was the easiest of calls to make. The Gov't invokes and is the only buyer for it against foreign countries. Then the govt distributes it. I can only imagine that business got in his ear and talked him out of it so that there could be a price gouging or super marketplace for them to raise the price 4000% while people died and he couldn't think 3 steps ahead.

He hates his critics; the best way to destroy them is to kill them.

He can point out that blue states couldn't handle the event while stifling supplies and smugly proclaim to his supporters that he "saved" them rather than the libs.

It's all about killing the libs.

The Trump Presidency – 2016
 

Except the populace most vulnerable to the disease is a core contingent of his party


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

it's not that deep a thing. He likes those who kiss his ass, he doesn't like those who don't, and he does things in direct correlation to how much people will kiss his ass for it.

And this will play itself out over the next month or two.

Yup

The death numbers are rapidly increasing. Hospitals are overrun. Schools are closed. Millions of Americans can't travel, go to work, or go to their house of worship.


And the President is bragging about his ratings.

I didn't think he was possible to be more disgusted by this dude.

Ya know you could have gotten big ratings during the impeachment trial if you held daily briefings too...

Oh, it reached a new nadir when he suggested that health care workers in New York treating coronoavirus patients are selling masks on the black market.

Daniel Dale on Twitter: "Trump suggests, providing no evidence, that there is something nefarious going on with New York's use of a large number of masks: "Something's going on, and you oughtta look into it. Where are the masks going? Are they going out the back door?""

He suggests things like this because it's what he would do in the same situation.

Here is one with video:

Aaron Rupar on Twitter: ""How do you go from 10 to 20 to 30,000, to 300,000 -- even though this is different. Something is going on. And you ought to look into it as reporters. Where are the masks going?" -- Trump suggests that there is some sort of New York nurse conspiracy to steal masks… https://t.co/Ku1K1H4Mth"

If he was not dependend on voters, he'd not lift a single finger to combat this. Heck, even now i guess he only does because people managed to sell him on this whole "war on virus" metaphor.

that has always been the best way to understand how he thinks...

Is it possible that, by extending the self distancing rules to April 30, the president has given those governors who have been fighting against shelter in place a chance to put one in place without losing face?

I can only image the Orange one after this proclamation squirming angrily like Bob Hoskins at the end of the Long Good Friday.

I don't think so. Once the death tolls start climbing in their states they aren't going to be able to save face, not at least with their residents.

It is mind blowing to me we have people who are supposed to be in charge of the entire state that lack the capacity to grasp the concept that they need to act weeks in advance to prevent the spread that is already likely there.

I'm curious what the red state response to a Dem president ordering social distancing, Stay in place, work shutdowns, ect. would look like.

My guess is they would think it was a conspiracy to get them all to stay in place so the Dems could come and take their guns.

But that is why I think it might be the play. If you are the governor who believed or wanted to support the president, I could see not wanting to be seen as going against him by shutting things down. Now you can shut things down until at least say like 15 April and just say that the change is inline with the President’s new directives.

Probably a lot more outrage about the country moving towards socialism and big government. And they would have blocked the $2 trillion stimulus bill and made it weaker.

except people will start getting sick and dying, then it will become obvious they should have acted sooner.

A week from now Florida will be a horror show.

Latest goalpost-moving: Trump is now saying that millions would have died were it not for his decisive action. This is to cover the fact that hundreds of thousands will die because of his early rhetoric and inaction.

Might be able to find some good properties at auction though.

Trump now saying that China misinformation is no big deal.


It's so difficult to shill for this guy, not knowing when he's going to start saying the exact opposite of this day's message.

He's now back to the '16 playbook, claiming the polls say he's going to win. Except they don't. At all. In any way. Current RCP average has Biden up almost six points. There'll be a lot of changes between now and November, but it's just pure propaganda poppycock.

Even Rasmussen has Biden beating Trump in their last general election poll.

Im still hearing a TON of this.
Kinda blows my mind.
And everyone here knows Im as Pro 2A as you can get, and mostly R/Conservative (mostly...)

But I had a long conversation this weekend with a friend I usually consider intelligent that was basically

Me: Greater good. Fire in a theater. blah blah blah
Him: But but but mah rights. Right to assemble. Freedom.

Admitedly Im biased here because being forced to stay on my farm, ride my tractor, cut trees and associate only with my animals and my family is kind of my idea of heaven but I am failing to see the outrage.

I just don't understand. Republicans control the Senate, the Presidency, and essentially the judiciary. I really don't get it.

I may have said it upthread, but freedom and sense of entitlement are a toxic mix in a situation like this.

That's my fault for not being clear.
He wasn't actually arguing that Dems were coming for the guns.
HE was specifically arguing that "they" were....and guns were part but also it was more about the "illegal control" and "stripping my freedoms" "death by 1,000 paper cuts" argument.

Which I get like 1% of...the Patriot act being a great example of freedom erosion in "desparate" time that never went away...but this isnt the time.
Just stay home, love on your family, and lets get through this jointly until pharma catches up.

I have a number of people like this, to varying degrees, in my family tree. They're not what a modern Republican has come to be. There's a lot of libertarianism in them. A number haven't voted for a major-party Presidential candidate for years, and some not for congressional ones either. When it comes to stuff like governmental power vis a vis individual rights and responsibilities, they don't see a lot of difference between the two parties and consider both of them way too far to the left.

In Virginia, for example, the fear is at the state level. Dems flipping state Senate and passing gun control legislation has created a clusterfuck of misinformation and accusations along with threats to secede from the state. I've seen articles claiming martial arts will be banned in Virginia as part of their gun control measures and apparently preventing churches from holding services for public safety reasons is communism.

Sense of entitlement yes, not sure about the freedom, but that is diverting a bit.

I have been going round and round with my 18 year old about the importance of staying home, don't go to the soccer fields to practice with a friend. Don't go hang out with the girlfriend.

My wife has had a stuffy nose and a cough, I finally had to completely explain the concept that my wife MIGHT have COVID (probably not) but she has symptoms of some illness. By him leaving the house, he could carry that to others that may serve as a carrier to another more vulnerable person. That was when he gave up arguing it. He was then mad because no one communicated my wife's symptoms, and I had to tell him to be aware of others in the house.

Do I feel that we have blown things out of proportion a bit? Yes. However, outside of talking the dogs for a walk and giving others a wide berth, the only time I have been out has been to pick up groceries. My concern is about the economic slowdown (not for stock pricing or anything along those lines) and how that will affect hourly workers that are living paycheck to paycheck.

You aren't really Pro-2A. You think there's some greater good more important than "the right of the people to keep and bear arms not being infringed". Either you're in favor of everyone owning an road ready M1 Abrams tank or you might as well get on the liberal gayroller.



SI

I'd rather not totally de-rail this thread...
but I think law abiding citizens should be allowed to posses military grade weapons, and its probably best to leave it at that.

'A well armed militia being necessary to protect the freedom of the state'...

I also realize that ship has sailed and its a battle Ill never win.

Fair enough


SI

Id love to own a tank. That would be a dream come true.

I have a fish tank. I can tell you it is not all glory and excitement.

Do you mean,

just be aware the cleaner will NOT cure Covid 19

**glug glug glug** What now?

In the military vehicle world...'tank' is a dirty word.
A good friend of mine owns two armored tracked vehicles. They are a hoot to drive.
Of course no munitions are present on either of them.

Well covid 19 will now be the least of your worries.

The 37 most mind-boggling lines from Donald Trump's Sunday coronavirus briefing - CNNPolitics

If it wasn't so serious ...

Yesterday Trump stated what the GOP doesn't say out loud:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...g-republicans/

My company just took an across the board 25% pay cut. Sucks, but that was the only way to avoid any layoffs or cuts to health benefits.

Edit: put this in the wrong thread, meant it for the general COVID one.

Ouch. That's gonna hurt. Sorry to hear it.

That's funny, because I just had a customer tell me how wonderful that press conference was. He said the President has been so transparent, and the media is just out to get him. He said the President is handling this better than any President ever could.

In other news, I no longer have a tongue.

Yikes. That should be on a graduated scale of some sort. Higher-up drops from 400K to 300K, meh. 100K to 75K, ouch. 40K to $30K, and they're in real trouble.

I mentioned in the other thread but there is a relevant ruling for this (Jacobson vs Massachusetts).

What it comes down to is yes, that person has rights and liberty. But so does everyone else. And if their actions end up infringing on others, the state can step in.

For instance, I am free to exercise my religion but if I decide human sacrifice is part of it, the state can stop me. I'd be infringing on the rights of others.

OK we may have jumped the shark as a country.

Yes, this. Some of the most vocal about how these rules are all stupid and/or unconstitutional are those with libertarian bents. Not dumb people, but think they are smarter than they are and always have to be that guy, that contrarian asshole no matter the subject.

Don’t under estimate yourselves

I feel for you man. There's been quite a bit happening with my company since Thursday.

Thousands furloughed across the company. Some were let go, too.

The CEO sent out an email today letting us know that he and the rest of the Board of Directors will not be paid for the rest of 2020.

For those who were furloughed, the company is going to cover 100% of their health insurance benefits while they are furloughed. I think they usually cover 50%.

I don't know what is considered typical in this situation, but I am impressed with what the leadership has done in a time like this.

Coronavirus in US: Partisanship is the strongest predictor of public response - Vox

Not unexpected, but partisanship is still the primary factor determining how people are experiencing reality.

Trump supporters are stupid, selfish, and easily manipulated. Who would have imagined?

You can totally lay it on him for it being this way. He's not interested in leading this country the right way.

Other way around. Trump wouldn't even be possible as POTUS without the partisan divide that predates him.

He's the POTUS. He needs to be the grown up in the room not the worst child in the room.

Sure, no argument there. I'm just saying Trump being a petulant child doesn't mean partisanship in America is his fault. Let's blame for what he's actually done, there's plenty there without adding more to it.

He has certainly exacerbated it in a major way.

Trump calls for $2 trillion infrastructure bill to help economy during coronavirus crisis

How much money do we have to spend until I can feel safe?

Honestly, I think infrastructure is something both parties can agree on, things are crumbling.

Haven’t we been talking about spending money on infrastructure for 15 years?

John Oliver had a terrific show on that topic a while back

YouTube

Agreed, as long as it is upgrading and rehabbing existing infrastructure rather than bridges to nowhere.

New stuff I am ok with as long as its not pork barrel stuff, but the existing structures typically are forgotten about when items of this nature are bandied about.

100% in agreement here. Trump is a symptom, not the cause. Although one symptom can lead to other symptoms developing.

Several GOP Senators have already said no new bill and we're done spending.

That and nobody is actually in D.C. and likely won't be until the need for such a bill has ended.

Oh well - I was already beaten to this. Trump is a symptom, not a cause


SI

A reason why Florida hasn’t shut down? Nobody from White House task force said so, DeSantis says.

From Politico:


What a fucking disaster.

Quite an ethical dilemma.

I would bet that Trump drags them along.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/31/polit...lks/index.html

So for real I know this won’t happen, but why can’t we be out fixing highways en masse with traffic at all time lows. Most of this being outdoor work, and it not seeming like they work all that close together.

I like the idea of fixing up the infrastructure (and I would love bullet trains spread out throughout the country).

However, I don't think this is time yet for that bill. TBH, I don't think many are desperate/willing enough to do manual labor (yet).

What I can forsee is once we are trending back to normality, assuming interest rates are still pretty low, increase guest worker programs to help rebuild the infrastructure.

I fail to see the dilemma.

Do the right thing. Not that hard.

The ethical dilemma is do we try to help the world even though we have shortages of our own or do we ignore them and it's US first.

That issue is discussed in the Politico piece, but this specific problem isn't about helping other countries as it is selling to the highest bidder to maximize profits. It's a good example of how the federal response to the supply shortage has largely been inadequate. We don't have enough masks, but we're still allowing companies to sell to the highest bidder and ship them overseas by the tens of millions.

Sure. I'm good with regulating/controlling what companies do (and in this case with medical supplies I'm all for it) in a national emergency.

But the underlying ethical question still remains.

Forget about companies making a profit to the highest bidder, the question is in a situation where there is not enough supplies for the US, do we ignore needs to other countries and it's just US first?

My personal answer to what we *should* do is no, we don't do that. I think we keep a lot for ourselves but export some to where the worst shortages are. This is part ethical, but also part pure self-preservation. Everything that happens affects everyone in a global world, and the worse it gets anywhere, the worse the recovery will be everywhere.

I believe the US government should put the US people first.

In this case, we don't know where te masks are going. Given the bidding procedures, it's unlikely they are going to governments of poorer countries, but they may not be going to hospitals at all. It's impossible to know whether these purchases are going to entities that will help people in other countries. They could just as easily be going to individuals or profit seekers or stockpiles for future usage.

Nationalist. :)

You mean like to rich businessmen who influence countries via off shore, shell corporations that can move money around the world pretty much unaccounted for, and for whatever means they desire?

You are avoiding answering the question. Forget your link about companies making a profit by selling needed medical supplies to other countries. Forget what Trump will do or say. If you were President (and we are where we are) what would you do if ...

Assume (Neutral Thailand, friendly Mexico, enemy Venezuela) has asked the US for more masks and ventilators. Assume they are in short supply worldwide. Do we send them all/some to the country or do the US first and keep them all until the tide has turned?

Because you're asking a question totally unconnected to what's actually happening.

We have medical stockpiles all over the globe. I think it's appropriate and probably more cost-efficient to look at sharing those supplies. Eventually, we will have excess production that can also be shared. But none of that matters when we don't have a national supply system in place to adequately determine national needs and national supplies. It sure seems like right now it's just highest bidder gets the supplies.

The most basic equation here is that you can't be a help, support, or salvation for anyone else, whether they are your spouse, kids, city, country or what have you, if you aren't taking care of yourself well enough. Doesn't have to be completely selfish or stay at 100%, but you have to be healthy enough to be valuable.

Luckily, we can be sure that in a time of crisis that would never happen.

On an unrelated note, did you hear about the GOP fundraiser that closed up shop to get into the medical supply business? True story.

Admittedly I've not read any stories yet but I'm willing to be there's been reachout to US government for medical supplies. I don't envy the person(s) making those decisions/recommendations.


So I think you are saying you would share the medical supplies (assume predominantly US military stockpiles) that we have outside of the US to other countries, but not supplies we have in the US (until the tide turns and we don't need them as much).

Please secure your oxygen mask before helping others.

I've heard that somewhere before...

I would never dream that people would buy supplies to an offshore entity and then mark them up and resell them to us without ever needing to transport them offshore. That would never happen.

The arbitrage on this is going to be sickening.

So I'm reading US first for the most part until the tide turns?

Good one!

Turns out that Elon Musk's donation of "ventilators" was actually CPAP machines that don't work as ventilators without significant modifications and may help spread COVID.

Con man gonna con.

Mike Pence is such an ass kissing snake.

Turns out Sen. Loeffler sold almost 19 million in stock between Feb 26 and March 11.

I have two thoughts on this...

1) If these senators etc are found to be acting improperly they should face a harsh jail sentence not just penalties/fines. Not sure why any of them should be able to own stock. If you want to be a lifelong politician that should be part of the agreement. However it isn't so...

2) On the flip side generally these people (especially her husband) are highly successful for a reason. I mean isn't this the main criticism of Trump that everyone and their mother saw this coming from what was going on in China? If she and her husband had a hunch that the shit was going to hit the fan (and did nothing illegal from secret reports etc) I guess kudos to them right?