That's pretty silly considering we are doing most of the medical research and rely on students for much of it. Not to mention they are probably some of the biggest employers in their states.

Finally. Pass it tomorrow and then real negotiations can happen. Dems arguing point by point against a GOP bill was a losing game.

Target it to the medical programs specifically so they can stay open, but not a general all-purpose grant. As long as the coronavirus is around and a major threat, it's dangerous to the public health to have people in the close proximity that classes not designed for remote learning requires. That far outweighs the employment factor.

It's a good starting point, built for negotiation. Several places to give things up to get things from the GOP. However, they've always been better at playing the game. We'll see what happens.

Nationwide early voting and mail in voting is something I hope is included.

Aaron Rupar on Twitter: "Trump interjects to ask Dr. Birx a loaded question meant to demean reporters. Birx tries to play it cool. Bizarre stuff.… https://t.co/7WvfoPZy2E"

The guy is just insane.

Anecdotally working with a large portion of his elderly base, I can say they are not taking this very seriously. Most are still convinced this is some liberal plot to get Trump.

Trump talking about the virus in past tense, when yesterday was the worst day so far, says everything anyone needs to know about how he's handling this.

...and his approval for handling the CV situation is now north of 50%. There are people out there who don't like Trump who believe he's doing well at this

Maybe they are grading on a curve

I have disliked Trump for a very long time and I have tried to be objective with him in this current situation. He makes it really hard. That video clip above demonstrates one example. Any opinion that is not in praise of him is the enemy.

We shouldn't be surprised by anything anymore, but he keeps giving me reasons to not like him. In yesterday's briefing he complimented the governors of Nebraska and Idaho. He said they were doing a very good job containing the virus, unlike the governor of New York. Nebraska and Idaho have Repulican governors. Andrew Cuomo is not.

People eat that shit up and they aren't smart enough to consider that New York has a lot more people, more people want to visit New York, there are more chances for spread.

He just a jackass for saying shit like that.

The only way that I can make any sense of this whatsoever is that whenever there's a crisis people rally around the President. So being north of 50% is insane when you think of it in terms of people thinking he is doing a good job.

But it is at least understandable if you believe that the baseline number for a normal president at the very beginning of a crisis would be 90%, and so being just above 50% is actually reflective of high disapproval.

I don't know if that's the case, but I cannot think of another reason his numbers here are higher than his 38% unshakable base.

fixed

:party: :party:

amazing what happens when you give out free money, or at least have it in the works

There are people not part of his base who think the coronavirus has been blown out of proportion, we shouldn't be listening to the health experts and shutting things down, more people die from a lot of other things than have died so far from the virus, etc. That's where I think at least some of it comes from.

Am I allowed to hate both parties in all this?

I don't like Trump's slush fund but why are Democrats pushing to forgive student loans? WTF does that have to do with a virus? It's just attempted vote buying for the coming election.

It's an economic stimulus. Forgiving $10k in student loans (I'm guessing from federal loans) would help significantly - especially if people's individual payments are substantial are they are underemployed at this time.

I don't mind a moratortium on payments and interest for those who lost their jobs due to the virus. But why should people with the means to pay back their loans get them forgiven? Shouldn't the money be focused on the newly unemployed?

This is just the Democrats trying to buy votes on the backs of taxpayers.

This is an economic stimulus not simply a targeted bailout - that's why everyone is getting $1000 and then will have claw backs during tax time later for those who make more. So trying to cipher and filter who has 'lost their job' or is underemployed is going to take a whole Hell of a lot of time.

Objecting to paying $10k of student loan payments to boost the economy seems really misguided to me when billions are going to companies. Sounds like a "corporations matter, people don't" sort of mentality to be honest.

And let me be clear, I do think some things in the House bill don't boost the economy and probably shouldn't be there. Forgiving some student loan debt is something I think 100% needs to be in this stimulus bill.

Why not just makes those checks bigger and scrap the student loan forgiveness? Or why not go after car loans so Americans can go out any buy new cars? How about home loans, do we forgive those too?

People with college degrees tend to be among the more affluent in society. Why do they need a stimulus more than other groups?

Democrats are just trying to buy the youth vote.
I'm allowed to object to more than one thing at once.

I'm guessing you have some student loans.

Yes, as do the vast majority of people I know have student loans in every field - from attorneys to doctors to teachers to waiters to pizza delivery people. A good portion of people laid off have student loans. The last bankruptcy bill made it impossible to discharge student loan debt - that makes it far different than car and home loans (which can be discharged). Not to mention that a good portion of student loan debt is issued through government backed loans - making it easier to forgive part of it. If your home and auto loan are held by the federal government, maybe we can have that discussion as well.

You want a real economic stimulus, forgiving some part of student loan debt would help quite significantly. Probably far more than a one time payment of $2000. I don't think we can do a half-ass stimulus like the one we did in 2008/9 if you really want the economy to recover from a potential Depression.

Some more info:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/23/call...-outbreak.html


The graph shows student loans overdue by more than 90 days are far greater than home, auto, or even credit card late payments.

Student loan payments and defaults are a greater issue than other payments.

This notion that only rich folks have student loans needs to be permanently retired.

It still seems like an odd target for a bill that's suppose to combat unique economic situation caused by the virus.

Once again, it's an economic stimulus bill: to help those who have been directly affected as well as turbocharging the economy (which prevents more people from being economically affected). Economists last week were saying we may hit 30% unemployment in the 2nd Q. We are going to need far more than some direct stimulus to those who have been affected so far in order to prevent a Depression.

apparently Trump has substituted Dr. Fauci with Dr. Oz.

lol Birx said Singapore is doing well because they followed the President's guidelines.

You can serve Trump or you can serve the truth.

Are you serious?

Arguing that the stimulus needs to target the economy generally rather than the people impacted can be used as an argument for corporate bailouts.

It's not surprising they can't get anything done when there's fundamental differences in ways to look at this.

Sadly, yes. He had Dr. Oz with him at today's town hall.

If he turns to Doogie Howser next then he officially has my support.

So question on Trump's brilliant plan to have everyone back at work by Easter. Let's say he decides to do that; forget for the moment about what the national situation in terms of the virus is at that point.

How does he go about it? I mean, he can't undeclare states of emergencies for states - that's the responsibility and purview of the governors. Does he threaten to withhold federal funding to them if they don't release restrictions? How might this actually play out if he still wants it to happen but the governors don't?

Tbf, he said he'd love to have everyone back to work by Easter. So maybe it's a hope - perhaps at most he'd have the federal government come back.

That's true, but I mean if you look at the balance of his comments:


Cure worse than the disease, talking about the possibility to destroying the country if it's shut down for too long, etc.

Whether that's Easter or some other similar time, at least for the last couple days what he's saying and what most governors are saying is not aligned. I'm just curious what options he really has for making this happen, because at a certain point there will be rising sentiment on that side of things. I think it's starting to happen already.

Well I'm not saying his arguments aren't dumb. But I don't know if the CDC is going to be on board with Easter. He can just send the federal workforce back to the office, and then try to urge Governors to change their policies.

He has no idea and is just saying shit to make himself look better to his base. A month ago he said 15 cases would go to 0.

Would he call on businesses to reopen in defiance of state and local restrictions and dare the Governors to arrest/fine them, hoping they'll stand down? I mean, I could maybe see some of the Governors giving in to him, but Cuomo is going to tell Trump to fuck himself.

I'd love it for shit to get back to normal.

Sadly, I think that events will overtake him, and by Easter he'll be saying that he never said that things would be back to normal by Easter.

He sees this as the way out from blame, right? He announces everything is fine, and after that if you’re pissed off about being at home or about losing your job, it’s Cuomo’s fault. I don’t think he cares about people falling seriously ill or dying, unless it’s clearly a problem for his re-election.

You could have stopped at "I can't believe he thinks." Have we come across anything that indicates he cares about anything but instant gratification? That he'd be willing to gain 1 now, even if he lost 100 later?

Here's the other thing that I think will delay. One of the major things holding back the economy is not that the United States are locked down, but most industrialized nations in North America and Europe are going to be locked down, and probably for a lot longer then we will be. Sure we can have everyone back to work and going forward, but international exports are going to be dead for some time to come. Which means prices will crash as supply way out paces demand (like for Oil, now) and we risk further dropping back.

Yeah, I think your response was much more measured in the other thread - but that's a bit like winning the tallest midget contest with Turmp :D

It's clear all Trump cares about is the economy, consumer confidence and his legacy. If you take everything he does with that backdrop - it makes a lot more sense. Still, he needs to atleast put up a facade of caring about people sometimes.

I think one of the big aspects of social distancing that I'm not sure people knew is the impact to the services/hospitality/food industry. I think it's almost a bigger deal to smaller bars/hair stylists/masseuse/construction companies than to big corporations. A lot of the people suffering are bartenders, salons, servers, small business service providers and retail stores. Just raising it from 10 to 25 again would really help those people out. I still think it's a while, but that should be the first step (not business as usual).

I am trying to be good here, really I am. I think some of it is that I'm scared about the whole situation. I mean, there's a really good chance that I will be 99% stuck in these four walls for the next 2-3 months, I don't have any income, and as such I might not get one of those stimulii checks, while my disability case is set to be heard in june, are you going to lay odds that this pandemic won't screw up the system for months and months going forward?

So, to hear comments like the ones made by trump and the TX Lt Governor piss make me angry. We're the "necessary sacrifice".

Not only that, but the service and airline sectors just to name a couple were already in big trouble just from the virus without any shutdown happening. Those might never go back to where they were, but they sure don't have a chance of doing it before there's a vaccine.

That's why I think a depression is a foregone conclusion. Globally. The only question is how do we get through it in the minimum time with minimal pain and recover as quick as possible. Anything better than that is IMO a pipe dream.

I think that there's a real difficult conversation to be had about how to come back from this and how to balance risk and reward.

And I think that President Trump has so poisoned the well with his new tack of making it a Team MAGA thing to pretend that there is nothing wrong that it will be impossible to have that conversation.

He's already laying the ground work for how he is going to handle this.

He is going to 'open' things back up and when people keep dying, he is going to blame the governors. He's already said a few times that Cuomo has mismanaged NY. He'll prop up low death Republican led states and shit on the high death Democratic led states.

Cuomo screwed you NY and I fixed the economy!

Bet he wishes he could use the Wizard of Oz.

"How Trump's Handling the Virus" poll numbers keep going up.

One for the Elon Musk haters:

Virus Skeptic Musk Donates Ventilators in California Crisis

If the virus disappeared completely today, I think we'd (aviation) be back to 100% within a couple weeks. The longer it goes, of course, the harder that becomes.

Yeah, this is it. He will want to open it back up, and he'll get screamed at, and then blame whoever that is as saying they are anti-trump and anti-america and they just want the country to be ruined before the election.

I know I'm pessimistic, but I think the lockdowns are failures now. Enough people will see things as do Trump and Fox and go out. We don't really want to arrest anyone and at some point, we just won't be able to.

We're going to let the original UK plan of herd immunity play out here and it's going to result in a lot of needless suffering and death.

I fear you are right. I hope you are wrong.

And it isn't like Trump's doing this alone. A small contingent of GOP politicians could stop him in his tracks because he has no idea how to actual lead.

Maybe warm weather will kill this thing . . .

Generally shitty people can also do good things, and its good to acknowledge it when they do, this is excellent!

This. Stop analyzing this clown.

I don't think Trump knows why Easter is special for 'many people' based on this briefing.

If Trump wants the markets to recover he should just send Fauci out to do the briefings. That would help confidence.

I doubt it. Fauci would be too honest about where we are.

The market folk would rather have honesty and competence than the nuttiness of Trump. The markets drop when Trump says something obviously false on this.

Did something else happen this afternoon, 'cause it sure looks like it was right around the time he dropped that Easter BS that the Dow really took off.

I think the news of the big bailout being close helped.

It dropped about 350 when he started talking. Then went up later.

The Easter comment was near the end. (I think after he took quite a few question.)

(Just checked....based on Tweets, it looks like he said it somewhere around 1:30-1:45.)

I never thought I'd reach a time where 35% of the country would think our president never made a mistake and 35% of the country couldn't give him credit for doing anything right. That's just wild to me - 70% of the country is just incapable of having any kind of an open mind on our sitting president (half for exactly the opposite reason). To be honest, I'm probably part of the 35% that can't give him credit. I'd like to think I could if he did something well, but I'm not sure. So I'm just as guilty.

I look at myself as part of the 30%. The problem is to the 70%. If I defend him, I am scum to 35% liberals. If I attack something he does, the 35% "conservatives" light me up. The hell of it is, that 35% is not conservative.

Just because he does something does not mean it is automatically bad, just like everything he does is not automatically good.

I do have fewer issues with any federal stimulus money now than I did in 2008 because this is not because of economic wrong doing by part of the economy. This falls into act of God territory and am willing to see some money to stimulate the economy and keep things moving. The problem though is I don't trust government, or corporations for that matter, to properly use the money.

I think the core is always revealed and it was again recently when he learned that Romney might have it. He couldn't resist the urge of implying that he was glad. He just couldn't because people aren't people to him but resources and marks.

I find that fascinating because I'd be very surprised if it didn't take a lot longer than that in the restaurant business. I'll be mildly surprised if it ever gets back to 100% in fact (though I could definitely see 90% or so happening).

It's a shame the bailout and the Easter opening were both on the same day. Now Trump will internalize that the market went up solely because of his announcement and it will put much more pressure on him to do it.

If there was a cure or it went away, personally I would resume my eating out cadence no problem. Right now I really don't want to eat sushi or a 5 guys burger.

But I do agree with you, it won't get back to near 100% until unemployment goes back to pre-coronavirus and people feel more confident in their current jobs. I suspect many of us think we could get laid off or furloughed.

I think he's the worst or second worst President of all-time (James Buchanan). I think he's stupid, corrupt, racist, and pathologically narcissistic. But I'm a public defender, and I give him credit for the First Step Act. It was a very defendant-friendly criminal justice reform, and the people who helped make the sausage say that the White House (and Jared in particular) really helped push it through.

When the man does stuff worth crediting, he should get credit.

I will also put him above George W mainly because he hasn't pissed away trillions of dollars on a war in Iraq yet.

Jimmy Carter? That guy was terrible. Way over his head.

at least he sold his peanut farms...

I think Carter was a far better president than he's given credit for. A better one than we deserved for certain.

Apparently there's a deal in place now. It'll be interesting to see if it gets rammed straight through over the next couple of days, or if there are any hangups.

All it takes is one person to vote no in person and it can’t pass via unanimous consent.

Yeah, but with any luck Rand Paul won't be back, so seems like it'll be fine

The other option is a voice vote once a quorum is established.

For the amount of the stimulus they could've given every adult $9,500.

New CBS poll says 90% of Republicans trust Trump for coronavirus information.

That seems really high. I wonder if the question was worded in a way to skew the answers. Anecdotally most Trump supporters I know, while not willing to criticize him, certainly aren't looking to him as an authority.

FFS

Wonder how long it will be before it is the G6.

Graham and crew are now threatening to hold up the bill because "it incentivizes people to get laid off"

edit: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/con...fting-n1168766

He's not wrong.

How so? Employee doesn't really have a choice in whether they are laid off or not. You don't get unemployment for quitting.

Graham is a fucking ghoul.

This is what I get for doing it the old fashioned way.

The @nytimes reports that Americans who are eligible for the coronavirus relief cash payments but who *don't already have direct-deposit bank info on file with the IRS "will need to wait up to four months" to get a check, per Democratic aides. https://t.co/LOomu3GTiS

— Geoff Bennett (@GeoffRBennett) March 25, 2020

How is it ghoulish?

You think people should make more by not working?

It's for 4 months and an insignificant amount of money in certain states. Most of the people are not going to be able to find work in 4 months either so the little extra might be a nice cushion.

Just such a minor thing to be upset about when you're giving half a trillion to companies who already got a fucking handout a couple years ago.

The GOP: fighting to make sure free money is only for rich folks.

I should add that unemployed people will have to now pay for health insurance. Unemployment doesn't take that compensation into account. So if anything this helps people with their COBRA payments for a few months. It's good to have insurance during a pandemic.

Guh. Sanders has a point, Graham et al. have a point, and they all need to shut up and vote for it. Neither one of their points is anywhere near important enough to delay this further.

November can't get here soon enough.

These briefings are such a joke. He literally turns every question into some random response on why he is the second coming of Jesus and we should all be so grateful for his wisdom.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/25/bern...ulus-bill.html

I'm not sure what Bernie is going for here. Is he threatening to delay the bill if the Republicans delay the bill?

How many are going to make more from this? My wife, for example, was sent home until dental clinics are allowed to reopen. She's eligible for unemployment during that time, but you could $600 per week on top of what she's projected to get and she'd still be well under what she'd normally make. Screwing over the majority to prevent the extreme minority from benefiting is the stupid logic we use to lose money drug testing people on welfare.

Yes. I think he's calling Graham's bluff essentially. Holding up the bill for a matter of hours or days is going to hurt the market much more than individual unemployed Americans, but Graham is trying to pretend he's the one operating from the position of power.

No, I think he's just saying leave the UI as it is, I'll hold the bill up if you change it.

Yeah, the only folks who are going to even consider staying on unemployment, in the middle of a pandemic, in order to get another 14-weeks of $600 are folks making less than $15 an hour, and frankly I'm cool with the individual poor of American getting over on the corporations for once in recorded history.