Has it been suggested that maybe Lathum was forced to vote for PB by a wolf role overnight?

I've done my part trying to defend myself. My vote is there, my analysis is there. Those of you that were willing to look beyond, much appreciated. I'm going to avoid wasting much more time defending what appears to be a sinking ship, kind of like playing music on the Titanic as it sinks.

Hehe, no, but I would totally want that role in the future. Let's see:

Hoopsguy would vote Hoopsguy
Jackal would profess his love for Sidney Crosby and Marc Andre Fleury
EF would profess his love for Big Ben and the Steelers

and none of you would vote me on day 1. :p

I suggested potential Sympathizer (cultist/sorcerer), but I think that from a percentage chance he is more likely to have a good guy role with information than the one villager who knows the wolves. However, upon further review of that role the Sympathizer does not start off knowing the wolves, but instead scans for them and wins with them.

I do not think Lathum makes this play at all as a wolf.

So, at the moment I've got Lathum pretty damn high on my trust list.

Jackal, for that to happen there would need to be an unlisted wolf role. We've already verified that one of the listed wolf roles is in the game (Criticizer).

The "Desperate for Attention" needy role might fit into the PB/Lathum dynamic.

I think it would have to be considered that he is the Sympathizer and his night 1 scan was PB. At that point no matter if he knows the wolves or not he would atleast know PB's role. Assuming PB came back villager to Lathum this could prehaps explain his actions.

Like I said earlier I really thought this was a bodyguard block/wolf kill issue where PB and Lathum saw each other, or Lathum was the seer. With both of those out the window per Lathum I really don't know what to make of this.

gah - sorry to hear that dood. that's fracking frustrating!

I agree also. I'm sure Lathum is just struggling to stay within the rules of the game and has blown up Danny's Inbox trying to test them.

But would Lathum as the cultist put a vote up that would so obviously draw attention to him? If he was the sympathizer and scanned PB as a wolf and wanted to let him know he wouldn't have done it like that, knowing PB would draw tremendous heat from a seer-like vote.

Well, PB has said he has a small role. PB did not reveal a larger role when he was on the block yesterday, which makes me believe he does not have one of the pivotal (and public) villager roles. Either he is telling the truth about small villager role or he has a wolf role; those make the most sense to me based on how yesterday went down.

So, would the Sympathizer burn himself on D2 with a showdown against some villager role other than seer? Maybe bodyguard? Otherwise, it would have to be a pretty juicy private role for him to take the 1:1 trade.

Would that really be the optimal play?

not trying to pick on lathum, just interesting that he fully supports the vote on EF but isn't/won't campaign for votes against PB

just noting that for later in case it becomes of some importance

It wastes two days lynching the villager and then the Sympathizer. There is no other point for that role other than to cause confusion and to protect the wolves at all costs.

I find it hard to believe the sympathizer learns villager roles when he scans them, so I'd throw that out. It's possible he's the sympathizer knowing he's voting for a non-wolf to buy the wolves 1-2 days of no suspicion on them, but I donno.

I just reread the sympathizer role. It only says they would learn if the person was a villager or not. They wouldn't learn anyones role.

My point is that I don't want people to blindly follow me under the assumption I have 100% knowledge.

I think the reasons layed out for an EF vote are sound

I've got some errands to run, I'll be back later. Throw me in the deep tissue massage room, Danny.

IMO that would be a terrible way to play as sympathizer when early on the odds of a villager being voted out are much greater.

If I was sympathizer I would get as many scans as I could and use that info to either deflect attention from known wolves later in game, steer voting, or if need be fake reveal and take the fall.

I wouldn't burn through it day 2 so I could get the first person who came back as villager killed and in the process get myself killed.

The big hurdle for me today in why I didn't vote for PurdueBrad is the wolf action that we know about from last night. Based on recent games, it seems that type of play of "Criticizing Eaglefan" would more likely attract people to vote for PurdueBrad then anyone else. If a wolf is going to make that play, they do it for one of two reasons:

1) Eaglefan is a wolf and knew he had at least a 40-50% chance of being scanned by the seer and needed some way to try to either push people in a different direction which would require the seer to either out themselves to get him on day 2 with no other COT built.

or

2) Neither EF or PB are a wolf, but this makes less sense to me since EF was just as likely to get heat today as PB, why waste an action on a play such as that?

Ideally why that isn't used on anyone else that wasn't under suspicion or even saved for when it could have a much stronger effect (ie: stopping one vote out of 20 is far less powerful than stopping one vote out of 6 for instance) doesn't add up at all to me.

I already commented this morning that I don't see Lathum making this play as a wolf honestly, I could see it as a sympathizer however but even if that is the case, we still wouldn't want to vote for him since he counts as a good guy for the purposes of bodycount.

There are several others that I pondered voting for (Telle for instance), I also don't really have huge problems with a Hoops vote, but already discussed why I did not go that direction either. The main reason my vote is on EF is it seems to be the vote that tells us the most about other people as well (besides PurdueBrad). If nothing else, it seemed like a decent candidate to run against PurdueBad as it would help polarize the playerbase to understand who was on which side of the discussion.

No, see post #513 and on to the end of the thread for optimal play.

Werewolf XVII Return to the Forest

Actually re-reading the role descriptions, I see they can criticize once every other night, so I guess it makes sense to use it last night to get it going, but then that still goes back to the original question, assuming both EF and PB had an equal chance of getting heat today, why use it on EF if PB is a wolf? That is going to do nothing but draw attention in the direction they don't want. There were far craftier places to put it (such as on someone who voted for PB the day before perhaps) to reach the same goal. That is the real struggle that I have with that action from last night.

a lot less people at that point in that game, so much in fact that was an end game scenerio, and why would I set up for a fake reveal when I can't reveal?

Why are you so hell bent on making me look bad here?

pay no attention to the first quote, thats 513 from this game.

I'm not. I pointed out a possible scenerio and you have shit on me since I posted it. Why are you so defensive about what I posted yet you are giving everyone else a pass on their theory?

You are so delusional. Your first post comes across as very aggressive towards me, telling me to stop playing games and accusing me of sidetracking people.

You then post the link to a game when you did a fake reveal in and end game scenerio that helped the wolves win and coyly suggested I am doing the same thing which is an absolutely ludicrous since it's day 2.

You then say I am shitting on you and being defensive when I have been nothing but willing to answer questions the best I can, yet YOU are the only one who refuses to accept the limitations put on me and instead try to make it look like I am a wolf making some elaborate play.

How can you seriously say that by posting that link you aren't trying to make me look bad?

Lathum, if you had to put a percentage (or if you are allowed to) on your knowledge, what percent would you give it?

I don't think I can say

ok, so my initial inclination was to follow lathum...he is way to deliberate in his decisions to do something without having a very good reason, especially something that would put him in a position to get lynched if and when it goes bad.

after stewing on it for most of the day, im relatively sure that Jackal is correct, and that Lathum has been compelled to vote for PB, and is not allowed to change it (i came up with that myself, but Jackal had already posted it) or talk about the compulsion.

assuming that the above is correct, that puts both lathum and pb at the top of my CoT...it makes sense to me that the wolves would want to use lathum as their unwiting tool, as we would not hesitate to lynch him tomorrow, and no one would ever believe his protestations of innocence, knowing his history as a wolf.

that also clears pb for me, as why would the wolves try to force a run on one of their own.

i also find myself folloing alan's logic (a fact which i am sure he will use against me, and accuse me of being a wolf trying to ingratiate myself to him)...i can definitely see the creation of the PB/Lathum dynamic as a means to get heat off EF for the next 2 days.

vote EF

dola- If I didn't have a very good reason for my vote today I would be voting Dubb for sure.

It almost seems he knows I am going to be cleared at some point and is trying to plant seeds of doubt.

Alan, I am right with you on your thinking. Based on what Lathum has said I'm guessing it could be either EF or PB, so I'm fine with a runoff between them.

WTF? I have been prevented from voting and now everyone is buying into some story that Lathum can only vote PB, like it's a wolf ability to force him to vote that way? Is this another Abe game where the wolves get all sorts of powers?

Fuck it! Vote me out if you're that gullable.

What next, Lathum will claim he can walk on water and that his shit cures cancer and everyone will buy into that too?

I know I just posted it.

But please, someone answer me this, am I crazy for seeing this as a blatent attempt to make it look like I am a wolf or the sympathizer attempting to make a move?

You all should look at this, I think it speaks volumes

Odd that you would blame it on Lathum. He's voting for PurdueBrad, you realize? He never claimed that he is forced to vote PB, and in fact said he would vote Dubb otherwise.

Lathum, I think it is fair to try and figure out your angle, especially since you cannot necessarily fill in all the blanks. I disagree with Dubb on Day 2 being optimal for this move in a 21 person game.

I never said it was fair, but he is blatently trying to paint me as a wolf. First by accusing me of sidetracking the village then posting that absurd link.

I'm sorry, but that link got me riled up, it's just so adsurd

should say wasn't fair

I'll be out for the next couple hours, will be back around 6:00 eastern or so.

Lathum, I don't know what all you can answer but let me try some things:

1- Were you given a pair of names to choose from or a list?

2- Did it guarantee that one was a wolf?

3- Was EF one of the other names?

4- Will the Penguins go to the Stanley Cup?

OH, and Danny's gone, screw the rules, tell us all you know and BK will delete it.


Hehehe!

ha

Magic 8-ball says: "Outlook not so good".

Hmm, so one of the people voting for me is suggesting that another of the people voting for me will work in concert with him to cheat the rules of the game.

And people wonder why I'm paranoid?

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
:rant::rant::rant::rant:
:jawdrop:
:cry:

That's definitely going to be a deep tissue massage... :lol:

Probably a happy ending as well ...

Deliberate mistake? ;)

(Yes, I know that it's just a typo, just one that I found amusing...)

It is a little known fact that I play Werewolf like the Da Vinci code. If you carefully look at all of my posts in a row, you could possibly break the code and learn all of the secret roles in the game.

I have already said too much.

^----- illuminati

THE CODE IS BROKEN :lol: