Wow - 22 pages.

Godwin be damned.

http://www.wintervalley.com/cfl_99/

enjoy

damn you!


FM

This is nice.

I thought you were joking until I went to the link. :D

This chick has issues. :D

SkyDog, you're walking the fine line of doom that LoneStarGirl had the nerve to walk last week ("it's just a message board" talk). You better watch out! JIMGA will hunt you down!

I just don't see how something this fundamental can be put in in an update. This quote, combined with the "gold master" discussion, has me thinking that the powers that be just don't understand how to complete a project and put it out there. There seems to be this sense that "we can always fix/improve that later," which is death to large, complex projects.

When I worked at a large law firm and worked on complex collaborative projects, one of the first things I was taught was the sacredness of hard deadlines. As long as you think that "we'll be able to get to that later," you didn't do it well. You need to look at the time you have available, decide what can be done well in that time, and do it.

The fact that Matrix Games does not seem to get this has me change my guess of release date from last Wednesday to "Never . . . or if it does get released, it will be so buggy that people are given refunds, and the code is just made freesource for hobbyists and the like"

I am watching to see how Matrix Games deals with this. It will be nice to know when I am deciding what games to buy in the future.

Double handoffs may or may not be a double reverse. If the QB drops back, hands off, and the ball carrier hands off, that's a single reverse. If the QB rolls out, hands off going the other way, and the ball carrier hands off heading back in the original direction, that's a double reverse.

Don't you read TMQ?

what about the shovel pass? they work that one in there?

Only if there is not a new Skip Bayless column to read...

:D

Yep, she seems to be making things worse. If I were Matrix, I'd probably tell her and David to concentrate on the release and bugs while Erik handled the forum, questions, and PR. So far, Erik seems like the only one who's acting professional.

I kinda feel sorry for Matrix. I don't think they knew what they were getting into with bringing this title on and now if it's as bad as I suspect, it could actually hurt other future sales.

Heck, yes. I, for one, am paying attention to the manner in which they run their forum, the game on which they are putting their name, and the way in which they will handle customer support for the game.

If they do well, then I trust their name. If they do poorly, then I don't. Simple. To many other things on which to spend money to deal with bad companies.

Of course, my opinion of Georgia Tech is also dependent on how good Maximum Football is since they have apparently licensed the yellow jacket logo for the game.

Yep. He's handled things reasonably well so far.

This whole things reeks of amateurism...but ordinarily that would be fine since this is an one man/family operation. When it comes to indy developers, the consumer always has to realize the circumstances surrounding development when it comes to managing expectations, but even if you give Winter the benefit of the doubt about a lot of things, his personality tears down any leeway I would normally give to this type of product. If you want to cultivate the indy spirit and try to influence sales, you don't crap all over suggestions that potential customers may have. You don't target other developers and try to tear down the work they have done in order to make yourself look better. You don't lie to your customer base or leave their questions unanswered. You don't continually commit to dates and fail to make those dates without any more than a vague comment regarding the reasons.

If this guy would have approached the whole thing with a "I'm just a normal guy trying to create something that would be fun" type of attitude, he would have more people willing to give this a try. You know, maybe a "Hey that's a good idea, but may be too complex right now" attitude instead of a "Well, if that's what you want, you're not going to like this game" dismissive comment.

I feel for the guy, really I do. The challenge he made for himself was a big one and he should be feeling good about seeing it almost to completion. But the way he's went about things has probably made this a nightmare instead of accomplishment.

Awwwww!

And now Erik just locked the thread before she could go all Brenda Warner on my ass.

:(

Agreed.

Im honestly embarassed that the Winter's are Canadian

I see your point, although I think that part of being a professional is knowing how much is too much to bite off. I'm drawing analogies to legal work because it seems to be somewhat similar--you produce intellectual product for consumption by clients/customers. To the extent the analogy is not appropriate, however, I may be missing something.

I would expect a competent solo practicioner to be able to draw out a will or a basic estate plan or help you close on your house or defend a simple DUI, etc.

On the other end of the spectrum, I would not expect a solo practicioner to be able to defend Microsoft in an antitrust suit. That takes a huge firm with vast resources.

If, as a solo attorney, I tried to bite off a project that was too much for my skill level as an individual, then I would be at fault for that decision. You need to have a realistic sense of your own limitations.

It may be that a game like Maximum Football is just too much for any one man, no matter who he is. But no one demanded that Mr. Winter make Maximum Football that complex. I think that I lot of people in his target audience would have been happy with a solid (not even FOF level) sim engine, 2D graphics, and CFL Rules.

I'd say that locking the thread was the right call at the time. However, the BEST call for the good of the company would have been to delete her original post before anyone saw it, and remove her posting privileges. :p

I think Jim's wife Angela needs to post on this message board from time to time.

I thought you post was pretty fair, logical, hardly over the top and brought up some good points. I also thought you were about to be banned for life for behaving like that. :)

Agree 100%, but it's still disappointing from an entertainment point of view.

Agree 100%. :D

I've locked more than one thread here when I knew the decision would be unpopular, not from a "you-shouldn't-have-locked-it" perspective, but from a "dang-SkyDog,-you-should-have-left-it-open-cause-mrskippy/maximus/etc-was-REALLY-about-to-go-off-the-charts-in-UIC" perspective. ;)

Yeah, I think once Erik saw that she was being called on her martyrdom, he decided to keep her from being able to respond.

I completely agree. Depending upon how this is handled, it could cost Matrix a fair bit of sales.

Did he really fake it? i thought he really died or that at least we could not be sure if it was fake.
What a fucking stupid, that is not something to joke about.

OK. I've taken steps to increase this thread's comedy factor. :)

Hmmmm....

I don't see anything on Matrix's board...

Oh, snap! Has SkyDog been Ghost Banned over there?!? ;)

Now that would be funny.

I've encouraged her to join, but she's just not into football. Never even fired up FOF.

This is one incentive to do the baseball game down the road. I think she would play that.

SPORTS SIM HEADLINE NEWS:

Solecismic Promises Baseball Sim At Later Date


:D

Two things stand out in her martyr post.

1. SkyDog and Druez were mentioned in the same sentence concerning the bashing of a developer. True or not this has turned out to be some pretty damned interesting irony. (I don't mention myself because I am always accused of colluding with Jason to piss people off, even though in this instance it was unplanned).

2. Mrs. Winter has gone batshit insane and has lost all detection of sarcasm. She crossposted my comment which was this:


In response to this:


And this:


My sarcasm may not be good, but it is certainly not subtle ( I even put rolly-eyes on the comment she quoted).

Anyway, I have been away since November and I came back last night and read through this entire 22 page thread... I missed you guys. The screens from Sov and the Napolean Dynamite dialogue almost killed me :)

Y'know, I really can't remember when I've been more interested in the release of a new game. What's not to love here?
1) It can't disappoint me.
2) It won't cost me a dime.
3) I have no worries about it being compatible with my system.
4) It's already provided quite a bit of entertainment value to me ... and it isn't even released yet.

I'm lovin' it :D

It takes the greatness that is Maximum Football to bring together Druez, SkyDog and SlapBone. You should konw that.

First of all I would like to thank Winter Valley Software for making this possible. I owe Mr and Mrs Winter some heartfelt thanks in making the impossible, possible again. I never expected to grace these esteemed message boards again.

The true dark jedi has lifted my ban so I may enjoy in the funt that is this thread. I thank you sir! I hope for one day we can get along and discuss the travisty that is Max Football.

A brief Ode to the Winter's.

Mr and Mrs Winter oh how I luv thee
You've made my dream of coming back
a reality.

Winter is coming
Winter is near
Winter has come and gone
for over five years

Yet still no game
it is the same.

In a game of ultimited options
I can't run the option?
How can this be?
This must be a trick say it can't be!?

Chuck Norris and Jesus too!
Is there anything this game can't do?
Teleport here and Teleport there.
But, can I make the cheerleaders
have no underwear?

I'll cut this ode short and say no more
does anyone believe the Winters anymore?

Oddly enough, Solecismic has released as many baseball games as Matrix has football games.

Even money as to which game comes out first.

Who said anything about the Matrix Board? :D

Oh boy.

Oh dear lord, the end is near!

LOL :)

Dola-

As long as you're lifting bans, when does Sui get to come back?

Yes I would want to see Suicane back please.

DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT
DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT
PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ

This is like when Peck makes the Ghostbusters shut down their containment system and the ghosts go batshit all over New York.

When I interact him for four months of completely rational behavior and he agrees to only post in one thread. ;)

LOL

I'll make sure Druez plays the game if you let him post his AAR.