Because this season is brought to you by Dodge?

About the "faking it"

Hmm...

Tough episode, one that I don't really have issues with being more exposition than action.

More divergence from the source material in some sense, and a great (as I understand it) nod to the source in an early scene.

I liked it if only it gave us a reprieve from the black plague at the prison, which I am not liking at all.

didn't catch the not to the books, but I usually don't.

Next week's Talking Dead includes "a surprise guest".

That is pretty much NEVER good for somebody.

Spoiler to explain what I was referring to (if you want to know).

Also, let me make it clear: I've never read the comic series, I've been familiar with the content via various online Wikis and such for a couple of seasons now

Little difference in the quality of Talking Dead guests between weeks, at least based on 3-5 minutes of viewing of each.

Jericho was damned good tonight, the actress chick was pretty solid as well.

It was about as 180 from last week's debacle (which they joked about from the get-go) as anything could have gotten with two strictly non-cast guests.

Who the fuck does Rick the fuck think he is, as far as making decisions that effect everyone and such?

Again I hope he gets mobbed and torn apart by Walkers.

I don't really think it was a bad decision at all, aside from making it unilaterally. I'm upset we may not see someone who was becoming interesting anymore, but in the context of the world the show exists in, I'm good with it.

I agree with al of this. May not end up playing out that way, but unless they are pulling out a red herring per episode, I'm going to guess it happens down the road.


I think he cares about Carol and recognizes what she is going through, but made the best decision. His complete focus is on his children now (and his protection and attempts to keep Carl "a child" is the driving force behind his character, so it isn't much of a stretch) and he pretty clearly explained that he couldn't trust her anymore. He didn't want to be the executioner so he spent a last trip with her and helped her get some goods. And, in any case, Tyreese would have killed her and that would have destroyed the community further.

Aside from it being a rational decision, I think it is important that they just let some characters go without dying and leave that option open. The more people that they add, the more likely that some folks are just going to leave the group to stick with smaller numbers and that really hasn't happened since they split up at Atlanta.

I was slow getting into season 4, but watched all 4 episodes yesterday. It has really turned the corner from Seasons 2 (bo-ring) and 3 (Governor got tiresome) into something that we all thought it could be... showing the grind of day-to-day life in this post-apocalyptic world. You have to go out and get supplies for everything, and you are always taking your life in your hands. I thought Hershel's speech last night summed it up pretty well... as far as choosing what's important enough to risk your life to do.

Enjoyed the matter-of-factness with which it was shown that the 2 people in the house didn't complete their supply run. Kind of just opened the fence, made a couple of comments, closed the fence.

For me, this season has worked emotionally as well. Michonne's arc, especially with having to hold the baby... Carl has really gone from a completely shit character to probably one of my favorites... the reaction of Tyreese to the final semblance of any type of "normal" world falling apart. Rick's return to form as a decision-maker, even if it was unilaterally.

Wondering how Daryl is going to react to this decision next week, assuming they even make it back by then. Would have to think that all of the discussion this week about it puts an end to the theories that Carol was not responsible for the deaths. Also, for a non comic-book reader, was the zombie herd they ran into going to find its way to the prison, and how will the group get out of that?

Just well done all around so far this year. Not perfect, but really, really good.

Jericho was probably one of the best Talking Dead guests I've seen to date. I didn't watch last weeks, but I almost wish I would have now :)

I don't know...I am still not fully convinced. SOMETHING seemed off with how she took the whole thing with Rick and I could see her going pretty far to protect Lizzie (or someone else). It seems pretty cut and dry at this point, but from the speech at the beginning to how Carol and Rick were at the end....it just seems off.

Agreed that something seemed off. They made too big a point of both the Lizzie conversation AND of showing the body being dragged away WITHOUT showing Carol doing the dragging.

That was either supposed to be a red herring in & of itself OR we still haven't gotten to the bottom of this.

{snaps fingers} Hmm ...

I felt the same way, commented that she didnt really argue or plead with him.

I have a very hard time believing Carol wouldn't come clean once she figured out Rick was ditching her if she was protecting the kid. She may have been willing to take the heat from Rick because of her vow to protect those kids, but if she's not in the prison she can no longer protect them, and Carol would know that there is no way taking the fall for this one incident will just fix things going forward, there will be another incident soon and she won't be there to help or try to prevent it. I'm still pretty much all in on the idea that Carol did it. I get the signs you guys are talking about, but the setup for that just doesn't work for me I don't think.

I must have missed that, it's been awhile since I've read the source, what was the scene?

Described in the spoiler tag of this post

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - The Walking Dead -- TV Series Thread

Yes I got to that after I posted this. :) I'm still catching up from my business travel last week!

Rick is pretty much a crappy leader across the board. Hard to believe that is the best they have.

But didn't they show Carol doing the deed with the knife?

I was kind of thinking the same thing until that scene came up.

Isn't that the point, he never wanted to be the leader...

That was Rick visualizing what happened as he imagined it would.

My God what an episode.

Quite possibly the best episode of the series to date (or at least since the Wow factor of season one). Easily the best 20-30 minutes stretch of the series.

The quicker cuts in the editing, the tension was as high as I've seen yet. Utterly fucking brilliant afaic.

edit to add: Note that the original timestamp of my post was 9 minutes before the episode ended.

It has felt like a fairly steady ratcheting up of the intensity with each episode this season. Just hoping that they deal quickly with the plot twist introduced at the end of this one. Also, I'll be happy if the plague thing is 100% done now; seems like it should be.

Curious to see if any of the interested parties are satisfied with Rick's solution to the Carol problem ... suspect that will be coming next week as well.

That was a top 5 episode for me. Seemed like a prime time opportunity for them to knock off one of the primary characters (as in seasons/episodes past), so I was kind of expecting to see a major death. Glad that they have us thinking that way (and that it didn't happen).

I don't know if the show is taken seriously enough for one of the actors to win an Emmy, but that sure seemed like an Emmy-worthy performance by Scott Wilson (Hershel).

I don't think it is, outside of special effects stuff, and Breaking Bad is probably going to sweep everything next year anyway (I hope, at least, personally). However, I do think that's probably the best performance by a main cast member we've seen in the entire series, and second only to Lennie James playing Morgan last season overall.

Great episode, though my dislike of the storyline that was brought back up in the final couple minutes clouds things slightly. If I set that aside, I can easily agree on it being a top 5 Walking Dead episode.

I'm looking forward to how this works, with both Daryl and Tyreese. I am very glad Rick just told the truth, instead of trying to go with "oh, she didn't make it."

I'm a little surprised to read the praise for this week's episode. I thought it was incredibly stupid that the doc told Herschel exactly what would happen yet he took zero precautions to prevent it. Um...it is a jail...can we get some locked doors, please?

I think I'm mostly just getting tired of the endless, humorless drama. The return of the Gov doesn't excite me about what's coming, either.

I hope the spinoff show is something a little closer to Zombieland.

Oh good. The Governor is back.

Agree with the surprise that one of the major cast members didn't end up eating it also. It seemed like they were doing some strong foreshadowing with Hershel especially... but he made it out. I liked the episode a lot, but didn't love it. I agree also with the poster who says it'll be good that the plague subplot gets behind us after last night.

I think it was about Hershel trying to retain his faith versus assuming the most likely outcome was inevitable. The scene, at the end with him losing it and crying alone, pulled the whole episode together pretty well, I thought.

There just felt like a lot that went right last night, it was an episode (save for the Gov appearance at the end) that assured me that the show is indeed in good hands at the moment.

-- I thought the filming/editing style of the scene in the prison added a great deal. I don't associate the show with being huge on the use of quick cuts but in that situation it portrayed the chaos, shifting
-- The foreshadowing-that-wasn't was pretty pitch perfect IMO. I'd say the next time we get that ominous feeling somebody will die, but they add to the tension by making sure we know that we really never know for sure.
-- I most decidedly did NOT want to lose Herschel last night. Sooner or later it has to happen, but dammit, not there & not without seeing his efforts rewarded. I was more prepared to lose Glenn if need be (although I was certainly hoping he'd pull through)
-- Great sign: they had me talking to the screen throughout most of the cell block sequence. And not just talking, actually yelling at Maggie (who I thought was about to unleash hell on the entire prison rather than save the day). Engagement was as high as I've had with the show ever.
-- Straight up killing machine Carl. I actually liked the internal struggle Rick had about that last night (I've not been a big fan of the push/pull with Carl overall). I felt like he knew that Carl was truly in his element and that he needed that very thing in that situation. He knows it's fucked up, and knows that the new world has fucked up his kid ... but that fucked up is precisely what you have to be to survive in a number of circumstances.

The only negative was ol' One-Eye lurking in the bushes, but on the bright side (maybe) with just three episodes left in this half of the season, maybe his return is brief or at least gets wrapped (temporarily?) with the Feb return episode. I don't want a half-season+ of the guy, but I can probably tolerate 3-4 hours of dealing with him ... especially if his end leads directly to the next arc.

I thought last night's episode was fantastic. It was incredibly well paced and shot. It was tense, hellish and brutal. Hershel was fantastic. Beyond the action and intense scenes, they did a great job of having the various characters - mainly Herhsel and Rick - finally have to confront what they've been wrestling with all season.

I, too, wasn't thrilled to see the Governor at the end, but they need to resolve that storyline. I agree with Jon that I think they are bringing him back now to wrap up his arc by the time Season 4.5 wraps up. This is based somewhat on a statement from the new showrunner who said in an interview earlier that he wanted to put the whole Governor story on hiatus for a while because he, like everyone else, was a bit sick of it. So, he comes back, raises hell, they deal with him some how and that Season 4.5 will be dealing with the repercussions of all of that. Perhaps the end of the prison? Who knows.

Really great episode and, so far, great season. Hopefully, they'll be able to handle the Governor in a way that's not quite as tedious and annoying.

Huh? Hershal was going around, checking on everyone, and closing the doors...

This is a drama it isn't an action comedy.

I honestly though that everything was going to come down last night. When I found out the governor was back (FUCK YOU THE WALKING DEAD FACEBOOK PAGE) and the tension building and building I actually thought they were going the route of the comic.



Nonetheless, it was a GREAT episode, and I'm perfectly fine with them bringing back the governor and finishing off that story arc.

So I admit that the only real discussion I have about the show is on this page and personally I can't stand the governor storyline either. But is it possible we are in the minority on this one? It seems like the group here analyzes story arcs and characters where the general audience might just be like "Oh fuck here comes the governor!". Maybe I am not giving them enough credit but AMC sure seemed to show in its ads that the governor's return is a huge deal.

I think they are trying to make it a big deal - maybe because they have to or trying to make the "Governor" happen - but the general consensus (even the showrunner said: "You know what? I’m sick of The Governor.") is that people are a bit tired of him. It really dragged on too long last season. It needs to be resolved, but hopefully it will be relatively quickly.

This show has had a history of letting things go too long - the search for Sophie Ann, the stay at Hershel's farm, the Governor saga, and perhaps the flu epidemic, but they seemed to wrap that up last episode and might have nipped it in the bud just as it was getting long in the tooth and it was a pretty stellar conclusion.

I'm only 40 min in this episode but all I have to say is please no more Gov.

I'm soooo bored...

I suspect tonight's episode will get mostly negative reviews -- hell, until I see where it's going I'm not sure that I won't be one of them if the storyline drags on too long -- but as a stand-alone I think the episode was pretty strong with the possible exception of the ending (although I didn't expect the final twist)

It's a story, one of millions in the proverbial naked city, but that's something that sometimes needs to be told IMO. I know it's contrary to the big picture but that's something that I don't have a problem with honestly.

I didn't so much mind the content, but I thought they could have edited it down into half an episode and spliced it in with something more interesting (maybe seeing what the core group was up to during the same period of time or splitting it with current stuff the governor is up to).

As it was, it wasn't awful, but with a limited number of episodes, I'd much rather see them use it on more currently relevant things.

I feel like the past two episodes have been used to try to get critical acclaim for acting (Scott Wilson last week, David Morrissey this week) and that last week's was much, much better.

I realize this episode saves them a bunch of money on talent. Thought it was a really good episode.

I was fine with this episode as a one-shot, but looking at previews for next week it appeared to remain Governor-intensive. I would prefer that we not have a 2nd of exclusive Governor backstory, as that would seem to suggest that he'll be prominent in his interactions with the group at the prison. Already been through that last year, not looking to revisit it for longer than an episode of conflict.

That said, I've been happy with the season so far and thus have some faith in the show to get it right, compared to relative mess that was last season.

Guess they have to have at least one of those episodes a season, eh? It is nice to see what the heck the Gov has been up to, but like hoops said - I hope they don't stretch it any further. With the mid-season break only 2 episodes away, I am sure somethings starts to come to a head next week.

It's also nice to see what other people have been up to. I thought the same (although with less depth) of the couple of people that Rick and Carol came across. It's those little vignettes of how other people are dealing with things that help to...flesh out the world.

Yeah think I'm in the same camp as most that were interested to see what the Gov was up to but feel like it could have been shorter.

To the point of how others have coped with the world to date....found it real hard to understand how those 2 women (being the only able-bodied/capable members of their group) have been able to last that long without figuring out how to kill walkers. Not sure how long an oxygen tank lasts but you'd think they would have needed to make that run for more tanks much sooner than when the Gov showed up. I know they said the dad had grabbed a bunch but the world has been shit for well over a year in world-time...just seems to be a bit of a hole in my logic.

Otherwise not a bad episode. Also seems to be an interesting dynamic with the Gov & the little girl that I want to see how it plays out (or ends).

I loved the episode and while I went into it thinking, "Oh god, an entire governor ep." the struggle, the character development, the torment (minus the really weird scene of sexuality next to the kid in the same frickin' truck for cryin' out loud).

One of my favorite eps of the season thus far and now Im really wanting to learn more.

I liked the episode as a standalone thing, much more for seeing how a stray family is coping than anything. Though I don't quite understand how they're just hanging out in an apartment like that without the ability to move b/c of the old guy or even the knowledge of how to take down a walker... but I'm ok with just seeing an interesting story and not asking too many questions about it at this point.

This did not do anything to make me care about the governor or feel invested in where this is going at all, so we'll see if that improves if they keep this line of things up for any amount of time.

Gov has been bagging him some post apocalypse.

Haha, my wife had a similar comment. "How is it that the Governor keeps getting laid but Daryl hasn't gotten anything?!"

Ladies love the eye patch.

I could do without the return of the gov as well.

I was kind of pissed to see him return, but I thought the episode was very well done.

Don't want to see back-to-back governor-themed episodes though.

I think if we got another Governor episode like this last one, that would be way too much. But from what I have seen in the previews, this next one seems like it will have much more action and interesting things going in, with Martinez and his crew back in the game.

I hated seeing the Governor come back, but I liked this last episode. I'm wondering how much of my hatred of the Governor was a spillover of my annoyance with Andrea. Now that she's gone, maybe I can tolerate another story arc with him.

Zombie got his ankles broke:

This is where I stand as well. I thought the governor's town went on a little too long last season but it is nice to have a storyline outside of the prison. Plus there is more possibility of death and destruction when you don't have all the headline actors in this new town.

so hey, guys, I know you have this totally secure home and all the food, guns and ammo that you'll need, but why don't we just hop in this truck that hasn't been used in a year or so and see what happens?

#yolo

Really didn't like this episode very much. Boring. It's hard in a single episode to build up enough emotional capital for me to believe that all of a sudden these 4 people are a band and are agreeing to head out together as a group.

Plus, why don't we fuckin' try to go somewhere else besides where everyone else has already tried to go? How are these people always running into each other? Are they in the same 2-3 square mile radius? How about you try driving north, haven't tried that yet!

yeah, I actually kind of enjoyed the idea of following a different group, but they totally mailed it in. these guys have just been sitting in an apartment for a year without any trouble at all and haven't even needed to explore the other apartments, in a town that seems magically zombie free. then this Nick Nolte guy comes along and runs a bunch of suddenly urgent errands for them and then they up and leave. I get that this was all to get the governor mixed up with another kid, but it was done terribly.

and yeah, such a small world.

I believe that would be Atlanta ... Rick says been there, done that.

Greater starting population density is not a plus in a post-zombie world.

That leaves out a key point: dad/grandpa died.

They want out of that apartment, once he was out of the picture they seemed quite ready & willing to take off (almost eager in fact)

OK, how about West? Or Northeast? The middle of South Carolina is probably reasonably deserted. And nobody lives in Alabama or Mississippi. It seems like they are driving for a while, but actually only end up about 8 miles away from where they were before shit breaks down.

The show would've been better off killing off the Governor at the end of last season. Right now, he is just kind of pissing me off. I really don't care about him as a character at all anymore. I'm not sure if that's a function of the acting or the writing or what. But Scott Wilson fucking nailed it as Hershel last week, and this week David Morrissey just seemed to lumber about with very little emotion. I understand what they were going for, this is a shell of a man trying to figure things out... but I didn't think it worked at all. But the first half of this season was very strong, so I am willing to hang with it, even though I don't like where the show is at, and apparently will continue to be at for another week.

Along with the memory of zombie grandpa's head being completely obliterated by an oxygen cannister in the bedroom. Might cause some bad memories for the family. :)

I also think that if this episode was supposed to like...redeem the Governor in the eyes of the viewing population then that's pretty insulting, to suggest that although he gunned down all of those people and totally was a dictator, we're supposed to forgive him because he saves 3 people.

Fuck no. I still want him to die.

I don't think it was supposed to redeem the Governor in the eyes of the audience. It's just to give him some depth and make him more of a real person rather than a mustache twirling cartoon of a villain.

I am really interested to see what they do with next week's episode. If they are going to put the Governor and the prison back into conflict by the the mid-season break, then something pretty significant will have to happen.

I think the problem with the last episode that it was a bit lazy. There were a lot of cliches and a couple of fetch quests. I think all of the actors were fine and I don't mind seeing the Governor in a different light, it just could have been done better.

In the Talking Dead episode the "celebrity" guest suggested pretty much that very thing: that the Gov redeemed himself by saving the little girl ... a suggestion to which both Morrissey & host dude reacted with shock/ bewilderment/rejection. But yeah, I believe that's out there for at least part of the audience.

What I actually expect(ed) to happen is where I figure we might end up: we're pushed to consider the possibility of redemption and THEN he'll go totally batshit evil again. That is one of two things I believe I'll personally end up knocking about his return, he either

a) teases redemption & goes full blown evil once again (which seems like a tease for tease sake)

or

b) he ends up dying at least semi-heroically & even more credence is given to the notion of his redemption (which feels like a cliched TWD thing to do at this point)

Option c (he sticks around indefinitely) is the one I really don't want to see happen, but is actually the least predictable of the three posssibilities.

Maybe it's just impossible to please the fans on this one, which does call into question the wisdom of bringing him back at all.

What did cross my mind is that some shit goes down and then The Gov tries to get his new "family" into the prison. Or he goes full-blown evil and runs a kamikaze destruction scheme on the prison, setting up the cliffhanger and making Rick and the group nomads once again.

he's going to die doing something batshit crazy to protect that little girl, the only question to me is whether he does some honorable thing that 100% clearly saves the girl so they aim for total redemption, or he goes double insane over the notion of protecting her and does something unnecessary that only he thinks he has to do to protect her, and they go for some kind of tragic death with that.

Either way, I am not interested and hope it happens damn soon. As H_B said, they're trying to write their way out of the ridiculous over the top "moustache twirling villain" image they left for him last season. I feel like that would probably take a really long time to properly accomplish, more time than anyone would want to see spent with him. So, just get it over with please!

It's a lazy show! I know there's alot of love for this show, but it's really lazy. The writing isn't mind blowing. It's fairly predictable.

Even though the results weren't great, I'm glad there was a episode i didn't have to see Rick gardening, Glenn being Glenn(to bad he didn't die) , and Carl running around doing whatever he does.

Lazy. I think it's pretty lazy when there's 2 people trying to keep the zombie wall up. TWO people. What, no one else thinks that's important!!! They send a carfull out whenever someone needs something, which makes sense, but only 2 people to do the job of 10-20 and save the whole place...

Lazy

I agree with the comment about it being lazy, and also about the fence.

The writing vacillates at times. The show can be lazy at times too, but not always.

Rick did the gardening thing for like 2 episodes or something. Carl pretty much stopped running around doing whatever he does after the end of the second season. Glenn being Glenn is typically a pretty good thing.

As for the 2 people keeping the zombies off the fence - Carl and Rick I presume you're referring too - they didn't have too many other people to help. Carol had been exiled. The other able bodied people were out looking for the meds. Everyone else was either sick or trying to help the sick people.

The only thing as lazy as the writing can be for this show sometimes is the criticism thrown at it!

I hate the governor, and the montage with some Creed soundalike as background music was straight-up laughable.

Also, the new girl has a pretty strong resemblance to Maggie.

Your right, i exaggerated a bit, Rick has gotten back to being more proactive, and Carl seems to be in it a tad less now.

I'm not being paid though, and if you blindly love the show so much, you won't care about how lazy and predictable it's become.

I see no chemistry from Glen and Maggie, yet they spend so much time on it. In a jail full of people(how many, i don't know, but 50ish is my guess) only 6 or 7 are trusted to do anything! I get it, it's a TV show, and they need to concentrate on a main group, but stop trying to integrate all these secondary characters, without giving them stuff to do when it would make sense. Boardwalk Empire, a show with a shit load of characters that never seems to take the lazy way out.

The governor became a cartoon character, and while last episode ended up being a predictable cliche, at least it was different, and they tried something. I'm fine with that.

Everyone..EVERYONE!!! At that point, it's get the fuck out time. If that many people are truly sick, then it's over, and it's a bit ridiculous that Herschel, Rick, Maggie, and whoever is not sick at this point...

I think the combat capability of the remainder of the prison inhabitants is also a legitimate question. Look at the "lessons" Carol was teaching the kids, and the discussion about how many of their parents wouldn't approve. If these are mostly refugees from Woodbury, I think it's pretty reasonable to think they simply don't have the experience at this point to be of much value outside (or inside for that matter).

Plus, from a practical standpoint, somebody would have had to go get them apparently, it didn't appear anyone would standing watch of any kind at that point.

Or, you know, an island. Unless I missed the part where they could swim, that's option 1, 2 and 3 for me. (If they can swim, I'm finding me a medieval castle - something built to withstand a yearlong siege would seem to be a pretty great choice.)Lost fell down this path, but iirc at least poked fun at it a couple times by having Jack or Kate get called out for calling a background character by the wrong name. I do agree that you could at least have a few somewhat familiar background characters doing menial tasks like killing zombies or transporting water without needing to build them up into real characters or even give them lines.

Yeah - island is the obvious solution. Kind of boggles the mind that that hasn't come up at all.

The island sanctuary idea is pretty standard in zombie movies.

As for why it hasn't come up yet in the show, it could be because they are in the middle of Georgia. Maybe they try to make a run for the east coast, find a boat, go to an island, problem is the coastlines are usually more heavily populated which means even more zombies.

The Walking Dead Video game explored this as the characters attempted to get a boat and get away from the mainland.

There aren't any lakes big enough to have little islands in the middle of them in Georgia?

At least there they could establish a base for the kids & those unable to defend themselves before venturing out for supplies.

Google Maps - not sure how accurate it is as far as any sorts of little islands in lakes, but:

Chatahoochie State Park has a huge lake over by it. BT Brown Reservoir on the other side of Atlanta. Lake Redwine. Newnan Waterworks has a big reservoir.

I legitimately see an island on Google Maps in the middle of Lake Kedron. Cole Reservoir has a big island.

Few. The most obvious being Lake Lanier.

I guess it depends on what size you're looking for. I'm not thinking something where they can be self-sufficient, but just somewhere they can sleep without being in danger, and where they can leave those who can't defend themselves while the others go off on runs (having the advantage of being able to take a boat to various points on the shore to avoid tons of zombies building up at one point to try to eat you would help too).

But I guess you need a deep enough lake to drown any who try to walk over to you...

Zombies don't drown. They don't really swim either. They kind of just try to walk along the bottom of the lake/ocean without much success, but some may find their way to the main land. In the ocean, the current may wash them up.

Kenny and his god damned boat!

Yeah - I was just using "drown" as shorthand for "keep the zombies away" - I had worked through that thought in my head.

+1

Dude would not shut up about it.

Spoiler-free commentary about The Walking Dead -- I think I could have done without the return if this is all they're going to do with it. It feels, honestly, like some lazy writing to pad the number of episodes for this season (this is lifted, in part, from the source material except they've split it into a "comeback" sequence). As happy as I was with last week, I'm feeling sort of let down by where it went.

This week and last week were big let downs for me. It almost feels like this is a rival zombie show with much weaker story, dialog, and characters. I really wish they would have just had the governor appear in a random group of zombies one episode. You peer into the crowd and see a Zed with an eye patch. That would have been the way to go with him. The gov just seems too forced. I didn't like him the first time around and I like him even less this time.

I don't understand at all. I didn't like how insane Governor vs Prison worked the first time, why would I want to see it again? Any work they did on the Governor in the last episode was undone about halfway through this. They fucked up this character last season, it didn't work on TV the way it apparently did in the source, they can't spend one episode trying to rehab that and expect feelings to be ok/different. Ugh. I loved the first half of season 3 and the second half turned into a train wreck. Looks like that's happening again here. Very, very frustrated.

I agree, the last 2 episodes, in the span of this season have really been boring and uninteresting. I just have no interest in this arc at all. Last season was just drawn out too long to just bring it back for the mid-season break. Very disappointing.

I agree that I was really drawn into the Gov. last week and liked where it might go but the all too quick WWE turn back to the old character left me disappointed.

I really hope this doesn't go the Heroes route because it's starting to get confusing and boring..

They could have easily fit the last two episodes into half of one. Dragged it out a bit long...at least it looks like they are going to get things moving again next week.

I liked a lot of what this last episode had to offer. Some good writing, some solid acting, some very excellent scenes: the creepy ass cabin, the bodies with the signs nailed to them, the zombies in the mud, the zombie chained underwater, etc.

The problem with the episode, as I see it, is that it's like the Governor's origin story about a year late. A lot of this stuff should have either been explored last season or just left alone. It's like they decided to deconstruct the Governor character just to re-build him again exactly the same way so that we'll have the inevitable big stand off that everyone was expecting at the end of last season.

Curious, though...

FWIW, my son initially thought the zeds that were "stuck" were actually the victims of the Great Woodbury Massacre. Not sure why he got that impression but it actually struck me plausible for a moment until we failed to recognize anyone afaik. I now figure it to have been a random location, neither meaningful nor otherwise untoward.

As for your other question (which I believe I can answer in the clear w/out spoiling anything)

Yes, I believe there is another culprit for the violence in that camp of strangers, not anyone we know.

edit to add: I did think one of those scenes provided the prospect for a much better ending to the arc than we got