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Mizzou B-ball fan 07-23-2013 06:57 PM

Weinered again.......

Anthony Weiner admits to sending more lewd images, texts but vows to stay in mayor's race | Fox News

SirFozzie 07-23-2013 07:42 PM

The Tea Party has sponsored a primary candidate to replace Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, mostly because the Senate is barely functioning, as opposed to the House, which is completely non-functional.

Edward64 07-23-2013 09:23 PM

I like McCain the maverick.

Behind the Curtain: The new power triangle - POLITICO.com
Quote:

Barack Obama, to hear his advisers tell it, has finally found The One he has been looking for: John McCain.

“We have been looking literally for years for someone we can cut deals with, and finally someone has stepped up,” a White House official said. West Wing aides say they now talk with McCain roughly every other day.
Continue Reading

McCain, to hear fellow Republicans tell it, has finally found The Two he has needed to make such conversations worth the bother: Sen. Chuck Schumer, a Democrat who can actually get things done in the Senate, and Denis McDonough, a White House chief of staff who actually cares what senators say and think and do.

While Obama and party leaders clash endlessly and hopelessly, these three men are showing it is possible to put aside political and personal grievances to get consequential stuff done, even in Washington’s currently twisted state.

They would never say it this way, but more often than not, they do it by going around those party leaders — their bosses — who seem stuck in fights they will never be able to end.

This new alliance has resulted in an immigration bill and a deal to avoid the nuclear option for confirming nominees, and is in preliminary conversations to avert a government shutdown over the budget. It has created trust — tenuous but real — among these three officials (and others) who can deliver results
:
The return of McCain the Maverick rankles many Republicans, but he can reliably count on seven to 10 GOP senators to back him, including Sens. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, and Bob Corker and Lamar Alexander of Tennessee.


JonInMiddleGA 07-23-2013 10:08 PM

Everyone of the sorry bastards that back McCain on his consorting with the enemy can diaf right alongside the sorry son of a bitch afaic.

And they can take any & every bastard that backs amnesty right along with 'em. They're worse than dead to me.

ISiddiqui 07-23-2013 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 2843249)


Word. Took long enough for him to come back.

Shkspr 07-24-2013 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 2843253)
They're worse than dead to me.


Hey, who isn't?

Autumn 07-24-2013 09:44 AM

Jon is kind of like a real-life Ron Swanson, anybody ever notice that? "Damn McCain for avoiding government gridlock and getting things done! I liked it better when nothing was happening!"

molson 07-24-2013 09:54 AM

That article reads like McCain is running for something soon and arranged a fluff piece. We haven't actually had immigration reform, or speedy confirmation of judicial nominees, or a long-term budget deal yet. So what are we praising exactly?

JonInMiddleGA 07-24-2013 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn (Post 2843339)
Jon is kind of like a real-life Ron Swanson, anybody ever notice that? "Damn McCain for avoiding government gridlock and getting things done! I liked it better when nothing was happening!"


Nothing > something bad

(Borrowing from Molson's handy laundry list) Confirming unfit nominees, giving amnesty to criminals that ought to be given 30 days to repatriate themselves to their rightful country or shot on sight, and approving unacceptable budgets are not positives.

ISiddiqui 07-24-2013 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 2843349)
That article reads like McCain is running for something soon and arranged a fluff piece. We haven't actually had immigration reform, or speedy confirmation of judicial nominees, or a long-term budget deal yet. So what are we praising exactly?


This is how bad its gotten that someone willing to work with the other side is thought of as a heavenly event.

Ronnie Dobbs3 07-24-2013 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn (Post 2843339)
Jon is kind of like a real-life Ron Swanson, anybody ever notice that?


I've always pictured Dale Gribble for some reason

KWhit 07-24-2013 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 2843253)
Everyone of the sorry bastards that back McCain on his consorting with the enemy can diaf right alongside the sorry son of a bitch afaic.

And they can take any & every bastard that backs amnesty right along with 'em. They're worse than dead to me.


You're adorable.

JonInMiddleGA 07-24-2013 11:17 AM

FWIW, I was already in close to full-blown vein popping rage mode at the fluff pieces I'd on that p.o.s. and some of his cronies just shortly prior to dropping into the thread. I actually hit the FOFC to try to lower my b.p. instead of raise it ...and stumbled right onto the same subject.

molson 07-24-2013 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui (Post 2843396)
This is how bad its gotten that someone willing to work with the other side is thought of as a heavenly event.


I just don't see what's so great about being "willing to work with the other side" when the practical effect is the same as if they hadn't.

molson 07-24-2013 09:18 PM

Kind of an interesting vote today whether to limit NSA funding. The Republicans support the president on this slightly more than Democrats, but there's a split in both parties.

Congressional Bills and Votes - NYTimes.com

JPhillips 07-26-2013 10:08 AM

Provisions in the post pre-clearance NC voting law. What do they all have in common?


Quote:

Require voter ID at polling places.

Reduce the early voting period from 17 days to 10 days.

Prohibit counties from extending poll hours by one hour on Election Day even in extraordinary circumstances, such as in response to long lines. (Those in line at closing time would still be allowed to vote.)

Eliminate pre-registration for 16- and 17-year-olds, who currently can register to vote before they turn 18.

Outlaw paid voter registration drives.

Eliminate straight-ticket voting.

Eliminate provisional voting if someone shows up at the wrong precinct.

Allow any registered voter of a county to challenge the eligibility of a voter rather than just a voter of the precinct in which the suspect voter is registered.

Mizzou B-ball fan 07-26-2013 10:26 AM

Pretty funny stuff here. The IRS Employees Union is asking all workers to submit letters to Congress asking that they not be included as a group required to adhere to the new Obamacare laws/policies. Link contains the form letter they're asking them to submit.

National Treasury Employees Union -- Ask your members of Congress to oppose HR 1780.

Favorite part is where they tell them in bold letters not to use their government e-mails in their submission. You'd hate for Congress to see that you're lobbying for self-benefit. That just never happens.

AENeuman 07-26-2013 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 2843809)
Provisions in the post pre-clearance NC voting law. What do they all have in common?


This will get overturned by the courts, right?

Edward64 07-27-2013 06:17 AM

Just another data point on premiums.

Maryland Touts Low Obamacare Health Insurance Premiums
Quote:

Health coverage sold on Obamacare's health insurance exchange in Maryland will be among the cheapest in the country, state officials said Friday.

A 21-year-old nonsmoker will be able to buy health insurance that costs as little as $93 a month on the Maryland Health Connection, the state's health insurance exchange, starting Oct. 1 for coverage that takes effect Jan 1, the Maryland Insurance Division revealed in a press release. Rates for insurance with richer benefits and lower deductibles will be higher and premiums will vary by age, residence location, tobacco use and whether family members enroll.

Maryland is the latest state to disclose how much health insurance actually will cost under President Barack Obama's health care reform law. The state joins California, New York and elsewhere in achieving monthly premiums below estimates by the Congressional Budget Office and others. Officials in states including Indiana have released preliminary findings suggesting health insurance costs will skyrocket as a result of the law.


DaddyTorgo 07-27-2013 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AENeuman (Post 2843867)
This will get overturned by the courts, right?


Of course. The thing is it likely won't get overturned by the courts before it has a negative effect in at least 1 voting cycle, which is what they're banking on.

All of these laws and means to restrict voting rights are really shameful in this country given our history.

Mizzou B-ball fan 07-28-2013 09:22 AM

Amazing to see how common these are anymore. I'm working with a group as part of the development of our property. They have four other properties that they are working on right now in other locations. They just put out the following for the other four properties in a listing.

Quote:

(Development group) is hiring a part time property manager (20 – 25hrs/week) and a 3/4th time maintenance person (25 – 30hrs/week) for our XXXXXXX Senior Residences project in XXXXXXX.

Basically, they're hiring all staff for their developments in a way to avoid Obamacare requirements. I'm actually writing up a budget for our facilities. The main staff consists of a couple full time managers and a few full time nurses. The rest of the staff is all 29 hour shift managers and maintenance staff.

Four years ago, I actually created a preliminary budget for the same project. All of the positions were full time positions. We never even considered hiring people for 29 hours a week. It's amazing how this bill has dumped low and medium wage hiring practices on their head.

sterlingice 07-28-2013 09:38 AM

This is no different than that a lot of work has been changed to temp work over the last decade to avoid paying any sort of benefits. This isn't new and isn't the "Obamacare" boogieman. The only difference is that instead of having to sneak in people under 32 hours before, it's 30.

SI

Mizzou B-ball fan 07-28-2013 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 2844101)
This is no different than that a lot of work has been changed to temp work over the last decade to avoid paying any sort of benefits. This isn't new and isn't the "Obamacare" boogieman. The only difference is that instead of having to sneak in people under 32 hours before, it's 30.

SI


We never even considered a 32 hour employee under the previous budgets. We were willing to pay those benefits. This is a different beast IMO and I'm not the only one changing hiring practices in that regard.

Also, some note that it doesn't take effect until 50 employees. That doesn't really change things even if you're under that number. You don't want to ignore the policy if you only have 38 employees and then have to go back and change your employee deals later when you hit that 50 person limit during expansion. You have to assume that your business is going to continue to grow and plan accordingly. I've already done so with my current staff hirings because I know that I'm going to reach 50+ in roughly two years.

Izulde 07-28-2013 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 2844101)
This is no different than that a lot of work has been changed to temp work over the last decade to avoid paying any sort of benefits. This isn't new and isn't the "Obamacare" boogieman. The only difference is that instead of having to sneak in people under 32 hours before, it's 30.

SI


This. Even before Obamacare this was particularly widespread in the casinos out in Vegas and in the retail industry in general.

PilotMan 07-28-2013 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izulde (Post 2844106)
This. Even before Obamacare this was particularly widespread in the casinos out in Vegas and in the retail industry in general.


When I worked at Home Depot 13 years ago they were transitioning from a company that was known for hiring specialists in the field to work in the various departments, pay them 15-20 bucks/hr that they used to build their reputation. In that transition they only wanted to hire part time employees to cut costs because of slipping margins, and intense competition from Lowes and Menards. It's nothing new.

It has been happening all over retail for years now. Frankly, it's Capitalism at work.

molson 07-28-2013 10:53 AM

Obamacare has to be giving momentum to something that's already been a trend though. I'm just not sure that's a bad thing. Isn't one of the not-spoken-about goals of Obamacare to be another step in the transition away from the old insurance-through-employers model? Small business owners like MBBF are kind of being used as a tool to bring more people into the fold of government healthcare.

I saw a chart a while ago about the decline of full-time jobs, and it's something that's been consistent and steady since about the 70s no matter who was president or no matter what policies were in place. I see it more as an inevitability than just a categorically terrible thing. In the future, more and more people will only work 20-30 hours, and they'll need to rely more on the government for things like healthcare Hey, maybe in the future we'll all work a little less and get more free stuff. That might not be the worst thing ever. If we can get past the idea that every adult has to have a full-time job at all times or else there's something wrong. Maybe are technology has advanced enough that we really just don't need that as a society. The concept of "employment" may just become more and more a luxury for the best and brightest who have the most to offer. It makes sense that our society and economy just doesn't need as many people slaving away hour after hour as we did in 1900. That's a good thing.

Mizzou B-ball fan 07-28-2013 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 2844116)
In the future, more and more people will only work 20-30 hours, and they'll need to rely more on the government for things like healthcare. Hey, maybe in the future we'll all work a little less and get more free stuff. That's not the worst thing ever.


Or they'll be more likely to hold down two part-time jobs, as most of my current staff already does.

molson 07-28-2013 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 2844118)
Or they'll be more likely to hold down two part-time jobs, as most of my current staff already does.


Do you think the government should regulate businesses and encourage/require them to hire only full-time people, even if that makes no sense for the bottom line of your business?

sterlingice 07-28-2013 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 2844118)
Or they'll be more likely to hold down two part-time jobs, as most of my current staff already does.


And who is making the decision to hire them part-time? Blame big bad government all you want but you're the one writing the checks.

SI

Mizzou B-ball fan 07-28-2013 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 2844119)
Do you think the government should regulate businesses and encourage/require them to hire only full-time people, even if that makes no sense for the bottom line of your business?


Personally, I think that most of the gov't programs should not be collected at the business level. Pay the people their wage and then allow them to budget accordingly for insurance or whatever else they want.

Obviously, full time only makes no sense at all.

Mizzou B-ball fan 07-28-2013 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 2844121)
And who is making the decision to hire them part-time? Blame big bad government all you want but you're the one writing the checks.

SI


I'm not hiring nearly as many part time if there aren't bad policies from 'big bad government' that encourage that line of thinking.

sterlingice 07-28-2013 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 2844123)
I'm not hiring nearly as many part time if there aren't bad policies from 'big bad government' that encourage that line of thinking.


I thought you were responsible for your own actions. Are you the one who gets to choose whether to hire people full time or aren't you?

How is this anything other than an illustration of "I'm hiring part timers because I want more profit and using the government as an excuse as to why I'm doing it"?

SI

Mizzou B-ball fan 07-28-2013 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 2844124)
I thought you were responsible for your own actions. Are you the one who gets to choose whether to hire people full time or aren't you?

How is this anything other than an illustration of "I'm hiring part timers because I want more profit and using the government as an excuse as to why I'm doing it"?

SI


Ah, this is fun.

Market rate is the ultimate decider. I can't tell people I'm hiring at $5/hr just because I want to make money. I have to hire at the rate that someone else is hiring for a similar spot. Obviously, that ebbs and flows depending on industry, demand, supply, etc. But when you have government mandating costs, that definitely cuts into what you have left to pay the wage and/or how you hire people.

There's more costs associated with government programs than just the direct cost. It's going to be cheaper to do it in the free market if you allow it to happen.

sterlingice 07-28-2013 11:25 AM

You are correct if you moralize greed. If the market is sacrosanct and say profit is the ultimate driver, then, yes- there's no other conclusion you can reach.

SI

Marc Vaughan 07-28-2013 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 2844127)
There's more costs associated with government programs than just the direct cost. It's going to be cheaper to do it in the free market if you allow it to happen.


There are also a lot more 'costs' associated with part-time employment than just those paid by employers - in most countries* part-time employee's generally lean on state provisions for benefits (whether healthcare, income, pension or housing related) to make up for their lack of provision through their employer ...

I've seen many employers moan about being costs of employees being forced upon them - however I'd argue that its fairer they pay that then force those costs to be paid by the rest of society just so they can reap a profit.

*This is definitely the case in England, I've heard that its also the case in America as Walmart employ part-time specifically to avoid having to provide healthcare etc. - however I have less knowledge regarding the US side of things.

sterlingice 07-28-2013 11:33 AM

You mean socialize the loss, privatize the profits, and then complain about the government?

SI

molson 07-28-2013 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan (Post 2844129)
There are also a lot more 'costs' associated with part-time employment than just those paid by employers - in most countries* part-time employee's generally lean on state provisions for benefits (whether healthcare, income, pension or housing related) to make up for their lack of provision through their employer ...

I've seen many employers moan about being costs of employees being forced upon them - however I'd argue that its fairer they pay that then force those costs to be paid by the rest of society just so they can reap a profit.

*This is definitely the case in England, I've heard that its also the case in America as Walmart employ part-time specifically to avoid having to provide healthcare etc. - however I have less knowledge regarding the US side of things.


That's why I'm not sure this isn't an intended part of Obamacare. It's just kind of a funny mechanic, to use the MBBFs of the world to push more people into government healthcare and other government benefits. MBBF thinks he's giving the middle finger to the government, but in reality, he's making the government bigger, and strengthening arguments for increasing the minimum wage.

Mizzou B-ball fan 07-28-2013 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 2844130)
You mean socialize the loss, privatize the profits, and then complain about the government?

SI


I can summarize your statement by saying 'hold people accountable for their own actions and allow them to reap the benefits of their hard work', but of course that immediately gets sent into the 'you aren't interested in the common good' pile, which isn't the case.

JonInMiddleGA 07-28-2013 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 2844133)
and strengthening arguments for increasing the minimum wage.


There is no reasonable nor justifiable argument for that.

None.

Marc Vaughan 07-28-2013 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 2844134)
I can summarize your statement by saying 'hold people accountable for their own actions and allow them to reap the benefits of their hard work', but of course that immediately gets sent into the 'you aren't interested in the common good' pile, which isn't the case.


I agree with accountability - that's why I believe in corporations paying taxes to the government of the countries they operate within rather than dodging their responsibilities.

Why should corporations pay taxes - simply put they rely on the countries government subsidised infrastructure (education, road infrastructure, policing etc.) and as such should contribute towards its upkeep and future.

(I also believe in corporations not being subsidised to employ people when they're reaping huge profits already - ie. Oil corporations, Walmart etc.)

ISiddiqui 07-28-2013 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 2844133)
That's why I'm not sure this isn't an intended part of Obamacare. It's just kind of a funny mechanic, to use the MBBFs of the world to push more people into government healthcare and other government benefits. MBBF thinks he's giving the middle finger to the government, but in reality, he's making the government bigger, and strengthening arguments for increasing the minimum wage.


If the Administration was more devious, I'd say they were trying to insure that Single Payer Healthcare was going to happen within the next 20 years due to disapproval of business tactics in the wake of Obamacare. Because it really does seem that this is going to backfire on businesses and have people demand a 'public option' on exchanges (when middle class folk will have to go on the exchanges, then all of a sudden they'll be all for it - when its just seen as the poor's alone, then its socialism, when its then, then its for fairness ;)) and the rest.

Edward64 07-28-2013 03:00 PM

I am mixed about this but leaning towards Obama not doing this. I guess to me it depends on how bad the pensions would be hit and would prefer the upper end pensioners to take the hit more than the average joe. The precedence would be scary.

Can someone explain if state workers typically get pension vs social security as alluded to below?

Detroit bankruptcy: Retirees ask Obama, Congress for pension help - Encore - MarketWatch
Quote:

In today’s political climate, the odds of Washington approving another Detroit bailout seem about as good as those of Carlos Danger winning New York’s mayoralty as a write-in, but public-sector unions are giving it their best shot. The AFL-CIO, whose member unions represent some of Detroit’s 21,000 retired city employees, issued a statement Thursday urging President Obama and Congress to approve federal aid that would keep retirees from facing pension cuts as part of Detroit’s Chapter 9 bankruptcy proceedings.

The White House hadn’t responded yet to the AFL-CIO statement as of Friday afternoon, but the Obama administration is seen as unlikely to try to act on Detroit’s behalf; Republican senators, meanwhile, have introduced legislative amendments this week explicitly barring Congress from directing special aid to Detroit or any other financially troubled city, as Megan R. Wilson notes today in the political newspaper The Hill.

Though details are far from being hammered out, parties on all sides of Detroit’s financial debacle have assumed that any bankruptcy plan will result in cuts to public-sector pensions. City pension officials say that the average municipal pensioner receives about $19,000 a year, and that firefighters and police officers – who don’t qualify for Social Security – collect about $30,000 annually. Since Detroit’s is the largest municipal bankruptcy ever filed, public-sector workers in other financially shaky communities are eyeing the proceedings nervously to see what kind of precedent it might set, as MarketWatch’s Chuck Jaffe writes in a column today.


molson 07-28-2013 03:07 PM

Maybe the other AFL–CIO members should bail them out. Or GM.

Dutch 07-28-2013 03:08 PM

Quote:

I guess to me it depends on how bad the pensions would be hit and would prefer the upper end pensioners to take the hit more than the average joe.

Why is that?

Edward64 07-28-2013 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D (Post 2844165)
Why is that?


I don't see any culpability from the pensioners especially if investing in pension plan is the norm vs social security for state employees.

I don't understand (maybe no one knows yet) the degree of reduction. 5-10% sure, if it becomes 50% its a different story for me.

The story states pension average of $30K. I don't find this excessive. However, I'm willing to bet there are some upper end state pensioners getting much more, so if possible, would prefer to target them first.

Dutch 07-28-2013 03:21 PM

If everybody was promised a pension based on the level of effort they put into their careers and all agreed, why punish those who did more?

molson 07-28-2013 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 2844166)
However, I'm willing to bet there are some upper end state pensioners getting much more, so if possible, would prefer to target them first.


If you look at a list of a city's highest-paid employers most are usually veteran police, firefighters, and education administrators. And I doubt there's enough making even six figures to wipe out Detriot's debt-problem if you disproportionately went after them. And there's something a little off-putting about treating a career public servant like an evil CEO or something. The difference between well-paid and low-paid public employees is a lot less than it is in the private sector.

Edward64 07-28-2013 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D (Post 2844167)
If everybody was promised a pension based on the level of effort they put into their careers and all agreed, why punish those who did more?


Whether right or wrong, bigger bang for the buck by targeting the upper end pensioners.

I think the argument is not what is contractually agreed to but who can do with less to lessen the pain that don't have as much.

Edward64 07-28-2013 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 2844170)
If you look at a list of a city's highest-paid employers most are usually veteran police, firefighters, and education administrators. And I doubt there's enough making even six figures to wipe out Detriot's debt-problem if you disproportionately went after them. And there's something a little off-putting about treating a career public servant like an evil CEO or something. The difference between well-paid and low-paid public employees is a lot less than it is in the private sector.


I think you are right, I have not been able to find info on the count/spread of the pensions other than the $30K in the article ...

There are some outliers, but probably not enough to make a significant difference.

Dutch 07-28-2013 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 2844172)
Whether right or wrong, bigger bang for the buck by targeting the upper end pensioners.

I think the argument is not what is contractually agreed to but who can do with less to lessen the pain that don't have as much.


If it's all one team, then everybody should do with less equally.

Solecismic 07-28-2013 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan (Post 2844129)
I've seen many employers moan about being costs of employees being forced upon them - however I'd argue that its fairer they pay that then force those costs to be paid by the rest of society just so they can reap a profit.


So, when you employ a person, you assume complete responsibility for that person?

It's a nice thought. It used to work in Japan, but at a high cost. Loyalty works both ways.

But in a society based on individualism and freedom, it's not really fair to ask businesses to assume those costs for people who aren't required (or even expected, these days) to lift a finger once the work day ends. Or stick around once they're trained, at your expense. Or even not to say nasty things about you on Facebook.

Ask what you can do for your company, not for what your company can do for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice
How is this anything other than an illustration of "I'm hiring part timers because I want more profit and using the government as an excuse as to why I'm doing it"?


Or, in many cases, hiring part-timers because margins are tight and it can make the difference between solvency and depending on government programs yourself.

The government has made a material decision to reward companies for job-sharing. It's cynical, but it will lower unemployment if the number of businesses remains constant. And those who only work half-time will become more dependent on government programs, meaning more votes for Big Government.

There's fallout when you try and eliminate your manufacturing sector, as the government has done. We're experiencing it now, and it will become worse. Blaming corporations for acting on the behalf of their stockholders is a rather strange exercise.

We could place corporations under more and more government control, but then people wouldn't necessarily invest in them. There's the occasional Ben and Jerry out there, but that's the luxury of tapping into certain niche markets - we can't all do that.

There needs to be a balance when enacting regulation. Too much, and your government is running everything (rather unfairly). Merit means nothing and even your best workers have little incentive. Too little, and you get cruise ships and beef that tastes like feet.

Edward64 07-28-2013 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D (Post 2844175)
If it's all one team, then everybody should do with less equally.


Not to sound Clintonian but it depends on what you mean by equally. I think you are saying equally = % wise.

I would theorize the need to establish a baseline fixed living wage for pensioners and its the amount above it that should be equally reduced % wise.

No, I don't know what the amount is.

molson 07-28-2013 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 2844172)
Whether right or wrong, bigger bang for the buck by targeting the upper end pensioners.

I think the argument is not what is contractually agreed to but who can do with less to lessen the pain that don't have as much.


I don't get this line of thinking at all. Shouldn't those who put more years of their lives into public service have more to show for it afterwards, or at least, face the same proportional reductions as others?

The people who had the smallest pensions aren't necessarily the poorest, so this wouldn't even really make sense if the goal was to line all the debtors up by personal net worth and pay the poorest first. A lot of people have small public pensions just because they only spent a short time working in public service.

Edward64 07-28-2013 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 2844179)
I don't get this line of thinking at all. Shouldn't those who put more years of their lives into public service have more to show for it afterwards, or at least, face the same proportional reductions as others?

The people who had the smallest pensions aren't necessarily the poorest, so this wouldn't even really make sense if the goal was to line all the debtors up by personal net worth and pay the poorest first. A lot of people have small public pensions just because they only spent a short time working in public service.


See above for my response to first paragraph.

Good point on the second if one can get a pension after 5 years of state service. My guess is majority have done their min (20 years?) for be eligible for pension. Let me know if you know this is incorrect assumption.

molson 07-28-2013 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 2844180)
See above for my response to first paragraph.

Good point on the second if one can get a pension after 5 years of state service. My guess is majority have done their min (20 years?) for be eligible for pension. Let me know if you know this is incorrect assumption.


I think it's usually 5 years, I'm not sure what Detroit's system is. But it's an incorrect assumption that someone's employer pension is necessarily their entire retirement income. Many people have public pensions + 401(k)s and Roths that were funded from private employers.

Regardless though, Detroit is just another deadbeat debtor here, do they really have a dual responsibility of wealth re-distribution in this role? Do bankruptcy courts entirely fulfill the smallest debts first and then leave the bigger debtors hanging? Why should things be different here? Edit: Even if bankruptcy courts were taking on a dual wealth-redistribution role, those smaller creditors aren't necessarily poorer individuals.

Edward64 07-28-2013 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 2844181)
I think it's usually 5 years, I'm not sure what Detroit's system is. But it's an incorrect assumption that someone's employer pension is necessarily their entire retirement income. Many people have public pensions + 401(k)s and Roths that were funded from private employers.


I think we can extrapolate that employer pension is the vast majority of their retirement income. If the pensioners did not have access to 401k and employer matching, would that change your mind?

If these pensioners could have done social security (don't know) but decided on pension then I will concede they were culpable for their situation. I don't know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 2844181)
Regardless though, Detroit is just another deadbeat debtor here, do they really have a dual responsibility of wealth re-distribution in this role? Do bankruptcy courts entirely fulfill the smallest debts first and then leave the bigger debtors hanging? Why should things be different here?


Let's level set and state some assumptions so I know where you are coming from
(1) do you agree that likely vast majority of pensioners are not culpable for Detroit going broke?
(2) do you agree with my assumption that these pensioners had to go with Detroit pension system vs social security?

molson 07-28-2013 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 2844186)
Let's level set and state some assumptions so I know where you are coming from
(1) do you agree that likely vast majority of pensioners are not culpable for Detroit going broke?


Yes, and I definitely don't think school principles, lawyers, and enginneers who put 30 years in are more at fault than 10-year secretaries, so they shouldn't be penalized for their service and enhanced responsibilities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 2844186)
(2) do you agree with my assumption that these pensioners had to go with Detroit pension system vs social security?


I think that's true of police officers, but not anyone else. (sometimes teachers have to make that deal, but I don't know if they did in Detroit). I don't think city secretaries are forgoing social security to take a job with a city agency. Or at least, I hope they're not. If they did, then yes, it's a different analysis, as it is with police officers. I wouldn't have a problem with the feds "bailing out" Detroit to the extent of making screwed police officers and other employees retroactively eligible for the social security they would have earned. That's be better than than some settlement that involved treating everyone like a low level employee with limited service time, even if they were well educated and gave their whole careers to public service.

Dutch 07-28-2013 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 2844178)
Not to sound Clintonian but it depends on what you mean by equally. I think you are saying equally = % wise.

I would theorize the need to establish a baseline fixed living wage for pensioners and its the amount above it that should be equally reduced % wise.

No, I don't know what the amount is.


Equally = %. Definitely.

For example -- Say we need to come up with $11K in savings.

If the pension for *FOUR* workers who did nothing but show up to work for 8 hours a day for 20 years is $20,000 and a pension for *ONE* worker who took out $80,000K in student loans in order to get a better job and worked 8 hours a day for 20 years is $30,000 and we determine that the people who did nothing additional deserves every penny of their $20,000K (0% reduction) and the person who went above and beyond and had debts and a different quality of life should reduce their pension to $20,000K (33% reduction) to come up with $10K of what they need, it's not fair. Especially if the person who loses the most is forced to go back to work or take on a second job to pay off the debts or maintain the quality of life that they earned.

If they ALL accept a 10% reduction, that would be 4*2,000 and 1*3,000 for $11K. The $30K pensioner pays more, just not all of it.

Edward64 07-28-2013 09:01 PM

Alright Kerry, good luck, its your turn ... I think peace with West Bank is doable but think Gaza will be the stickler. Interested in seeing how this evolves.

Mideast peace talks set to begin after Israel agrees to free 104 Palestinian prisoners - The Washington Post
Quote:

JERUSALEM — The first substantive peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians in years will begin Monday evening in Washington, the Obama administration announced, after Israeli leaders agreed Sunday to release 104 Palestinian prisoners.

State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said the preliminary talks will be led by Israeli Justice Minister Tzipi Livni and chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat. The talks, which will continue Tuesday, are expected to address the framework for full negotiations to follow — the talks about talks that had preceded past attempts at a deal.

The release of Palestinian prisoners was one of the major roadblocks to the peace talks.

Calling the prisoner decision “painful for the entire nation,” Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu won the approval of his divided cabinet earlier Sunday to release the Palestinian inmates, many convicted of killing Israelis, to help restart peace talks brokered by U.S. Secretary of State John F. Kerry.

JonInMiddleGA 07-29-2013 08:07 PM

Concord: Half of Affordable Care Act call center jobs will be part-time - ContraCostaTimes.com

PilotMan 07-29-2013 08:38 PM


WTF? What's that supposed to prove? Were all the jobs supposed to be full time? OMG! Stop the presses! The government is saving money and using business acumen to staff correctly and cut waste. Isn't that what you are always running on about?

JonInMiddleGA 07-29-2013 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan (Post 2844409)
WTF? What's that supposed to prove? Were all the jobs supposed to be full time? OMG! Stop the presses! The government is saving money and using business acumen to staff correctly and cut waste. Isn't that what you are always running on about?


Did I said it proved anything? Did I say indicate it was anything other than a minor aside?

I actually found it interesting mostly because it was amusing to see the blowback aimed in the fencepost turtle's general direction. Not everything is meant to be decisive political commentary, sometimes shit is just worth two seconds of amusement.

Although if paying f'n phone bankers over $15/hr seems like "cutting waste" to you, well, there might be an issue there.

PilotMan 07-29-2013 09:25 PM

I thought you always paid what the market would bear? Certainly doesn't seem like that great a wage for boring, no skill work with little to nothing in benefits. I would imagine that you would need to pay a decent wage to keep turnover fairly low, otherwise you are spending more time and resources on training instead of the phone skills and knowledge that is required to make someone a solid phone worker. I don't think your everyday burger flipper would be cut out for that type of work.

JonInMiddleGA 07-29-2013 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan (Post 2844417)
I would imagine that you would need to pay a decent wage to keep turnover fairly low, otherwise you are spending more time and resources on training instead of the phone skills and knowledge that is required to make someone a solid phone worker.


One of the larger (non-governmental) employers here in Athens is a call bank. Low-end boiler room kind of deal.

Min wage, with small bumps for longevity. Their waiting list of employees is long, it's dull but non-demanding & the college students beg for the jobs to avoid waiting tables.

Mizzou B-ball fan 07-30-2013 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan (Post 2844417)
I thought you always paid what the market would bear? Certainly doesn't seem like that great a wage for boring, no skill work with little to nothing in benefits. I would imagine that you would need to pay a decent wage to keep turnover fairly low, otherwise you are spending more time and resources on training instead of the phone skills and knowledge that is required to make someone a solid phone worker. I don't think your everyday burger flipper would be cut out for that type of work.


$15/hr. is WAY too much for that position. Hell, for that amount, they could have paid them $10/hr. and given them health benefits.

PilotMan 07-30-2013 10:09 AM

According to this website:

http://www1.salary.com/Call-Center-R...nd-Salary.html

Median Pay for a Call Center Rep is $29,178/yr.

There are 2080 (40*52) hrs in a work year. That's no days off, short weeks, or breaks. Even with that high number the average pay works out to $14.03/hr.

So it sounds pretty much right in the middle to me.

sterlingice 07-30-2013 10:11 AM

And the call center is in Cali so there's probably a bit of a COLA there.

I always thought midwest college towns were great places to put call centers for high quality, lower wage labor. Even with the higher turnover, you should be able to train people up quicker.

SI

sterlingice 07-30-2013 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 2844487)
$15/hr. is WAY too much for that position. Hell, for that amount, they could have paid them $10/hr. and given them health benefits.


Aren't you going to get a different caliber of worker when you cut wages by 33%? Even with benefits?

SI

Mizzou B-ball fan 07-30-2013 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 2844501)
Aren't you going to get a different caliber of worker when you cut wages by 33%? Even with benefits?

SI


Not at all. Higher salary doesn't get a better caliber of worker, especially in this economy. Quality workers will come out for less pay in this climate because they're so desperate to find work.

JPhillips 07-30-2013 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 2844504)
Not at all. Higher salary doesn't get a better caliber of worker, especially in this economy. Quality workers will come out for less pay in this climate because they're so desperate to find work.


Right. But doesn't that hurt your argument that companies would pay more if there weren't so many regulations?

Mizzou B-ball fan 07-30-2013 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 2844506)
Right. But doesn't that hurt your argument that companies would pay more if there weren't so many regulations?


Pay is relative to two things: the market and how you'd like to be paid. The market is a supply vs. demand depending on the economy.

How you'd like to be paid is a different situation. For example, I can pay you:

$15/hour

or

$13/hour + health benefits

You'd be shocked how many people take the $15/hour even though the one with included benefits is often the better deal for them. I'm paying extra costs in that second scenario that they don't have to pay, but there's a lot of people that take that $15/hour and then don't budget for something like health insurance. It's usually better for me in the first scenario as a business owner.

Julio Riddols 07-30-2013 01:06 PM

I made 15 an hour at an inbound call center in Tempe. If they would have offered me 12 plus benefits, I'd have preferred that, especially if those benefits included a 401(k) or shares of stock.

JPhillips 08-01-2013 09:17 AM

The Christie/Paul fight sure is fun.

Christie's latest:

Quote:

“I find it interesting that Senator Paul is accusing us of having a gimme, gimme, gimme attitude toward federal spending when in fact New Jersey is a donor state, we get 61 cents back on every dollar we send to Washington,” Christie said. “And interestingly Kentucky gets $1.51 on every dollar they sent to Washington.”

panerd 08-01-2013 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 2845016)
The Christie/Paul fight sure is fun.

Christie's latest:


Same article...

Paul brushed off that suggestion during his interview with Blitzer, pointing to military bases on Kentucky soil as the primary recipient of federal funds.

It was one line down in the article I read so I could see how you might have missed the explanation.

EDIT: Not saying Rand Paul is the answer, he's not, but Christie is about as fiscally conservative as the Democrats so I will gladly take Paul over him in this fight.

molson 08-01-2013 09:29 AM

Ya, I've never understood that point. The fed isn't allowed to pick and choose states to fund, the people, businesses, and federal government agencies in each state are going to have different fed spending/fed taxing ratios because of the wealth of the people, type and number of business, and presence of military and other agencies. On this board (and I'm sure elsewhere), the point of the argument is that if you live in one of these loser states, you're not allowed to have an opinion about federal efficiency or corruption, even if you personally have absolutely nothing to do with any spending and taxing discrepancy. (And even if you personally pay enough taxes to where you're a "fed donor" under that formula). I mean, under that logic, if I make more money than you, my opinion about government matters more, because I pay more taxes. Maybe Kentucky should lose some electoral votes if their tax payers aren't contributing enough?

panerd 08-01-2013 09:37 AM

Agree completely Molson. And thanks to JPhillips for getting me started on this whole Christie/Paul "feud" but here is my understanding of the debate and I would love to hear somebody (maybe JiMGa) defend the Christie side.

So Rand Paul feels like the NSA/Patriot Act/etc is a violation of the 4th amendment of the constitution. There is a reasonable argument to be had on the other side which is made by people like President Obama who say there is a security threat not understood back when the constitution was written. The gray area (IMO) is where does the security threat end and panerd's privacy begin.

Christie's reaction: Called Paul and people with similar beliefs esoteric. Have a debate over the founding principles of this country apparently is not something worth his time or that anyone cares about. USA! USA! USA! America!

I have been involved in debates on FOFC about the 4th amendment and privacy and agree with a lot of the other side of the issue and have had some members agree with me. Christie just says its a non issue that isn't worthy of his time.

JPhillips 08-01-2013 09:52 AM

Uhh, you guys are too hung up on substance here. I don't really care about who wins as either of them would implement policies I disagree with. I just find the feud fun. If I posted yesterday I would have used Paul's "King of Bacon" remark, clearly jabbing at Christie's weight.

molson 08-01-2013 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 2845026)
Uhh, you guys are too hung up on substance here. I don't really care about who wins as either of them would implement policies I disagree with. I just find the feud fun. If I posted yesterday I would have used Paul's "King of Bacon" remark, clearly jabbing at Christie's weight.


I know you're not digging into the substance of this in the context you brought it up, but Christie was, and it comes up all the time here. It's just a weird role-reversal, when a liberal, or in this case a moderate Republican, basically just brags about how rich he is and insults someone else for being poor. And the thing is, a lot of the conservatives who are the target of this line of argument probably wouldn't mind too much if the fed cut healthcare and welfare and social security spending to their state, it certainly wouldn't effect them. Military spending, of course, many would love to spend more on, though not all. And that's pretty much the big 4 fed spending categories that fit into ratio against fed income (which is based entirely on how many rich people you have in a state, and New Jersey has a lot.)

ISiddiqui 08-01-2013 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 2845018)
Same article...

Paul brushed off that suggestion during his interview with Blitzer, pointing to military bases on Kentucky soil as the primary recipient of federal funds


As if New Jersey doesn't have military bases ;). Really, you can't put bases in New York City, so Jersey has a number of them.

Here is the fun part:
List of United States Army installations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of United States Marine Corps installations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of United States Navy installations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._installations

New Jersey has 2 Army bases (Fort Dix & Picatinny Arsenal). Kentucky has 3 Army bases (Blue Grass Army Depot, Fort Campbell, Fort Knox)

New Jersey has 2 Naval Bases: NWS Earle, NAES Lakehurst; and 1 Air Force Base: McGwire Air Force Base and 1 National Guard Air Base: Atlantic City Air National Guard Base. Kentucky has no Naval but has a Marine attachment at Fort Knox, and an Air National Guard base as Lousiville (but no Air Force Bases).

So basically, Paul is full of shit. Also wouldn't a Libertarian arguing for lesser government also want less military as well?

SirFozzie 08-01-2013 10:28 AM

Man, the GOP House side folks are really frayed right now, looks like they can't get anything through.

THUD bill is pulled as GOP budget frays - David Rogers - POLITICO.com

panerd 08-01-2013 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui (Post 2845032)

So basically, Paul is full of shit. Also wouldn't a Libertarian arguing for lesser government also want less military as well?


Yes he does. It may not make the Paul's very popular but I would think that is both Rand and Ron's either #1 or #2 campaign issues. I am pretty sure he isn't going to be allowed to shut down all of Kentucky's bases based on ideology though.

There is plenty that the Paul's (especially Rand) can be called out on but I wouldn't go with the standard "For smaller government but not a smaller military" line used against the GOP because both of the Paul's are right there with the most liberal democrats on our foreign policy.

ISiddiqui 08-01-2013 10:45 AM

Therefore I'd argue Christie's dig was right on the money.

Edward64 08-01-2013 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 2844504)
Not at all. Higher salary doesn't get a better caliber of worker, especially in this economy. Quality workers will come out for less pay in this climate because they're so desperate to find work.


I can see where this is true in some industries but in other industries, higher salary will get you better caliber of worker even in this economy.

panerd 08-01-2013 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui (Post 2845041)
Therefore I'd argue Christie's dig was right on the money.


No doubt. I think the term "Bread and circus" was originally from the Romans but to hear a politician admit openly that people who care about issues like the Constitution are basically such a small segment of the voters that he doesn't need to be bothered with them just proves why the GOP will probably not control the presidency for any time in the foreseeable future. Paul appeals to a segment of the party that a frontrunner like Christie would just rather ignore. (A segment of the party that could grow from disgruntled Democrats IMO) Statements like his coming from a Democrat seem like a good rip but from a Republican just another nail in the coffin of the dying Republican party.

sterlingice 08-01-2013 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie (Post 2845035)
Man, the GOP House side folks are really frayed right now, looks like they can't get anything through.

THUD bill is pulled as GOP budget frays - David Rogers - POLITICO.com



So the THUD bill went... thud?

SI

JPhillips 08-01-2013 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 2845037)
Yes he does. It may not make the Paul's very popular but I would think that is both Rand and Ron's either #1 or #2 campaign issues. I am pretty sure he isn't going to be allowed to shut down all of Kentucky's bases based on ideology though.

There is plenty that the Paul's (especially Rand) can be called out on but I wouldn't go with the standard "For smaller government but not a smaller military" line used against the GOP because both of the Paul's are right there with the most liberal democrats on our foreign policy.


I'll give you Ron, but Rand surely doesn't sound like he wants to cut the military.

Quote:

"They're precisely the same people who are unwilling to cut the spending, and their 'Gimme, gimme, gimme, give me all my Sandy money now,'" Paul told reporters Sunday in Kentucky. "Those are the people who are bankrupting the government and not letting enough money be left over for national defense."

ISiddiqui 08-01-2013 01:06 PM

I'd argue Rand Paul's calling people who are asking for money for rebuilding from Hurricane Sandy as "gimme, gimme, gimme" folks will have a MUCH bigger negative effect than a politician not caring about privacy concerns (when's the last President that we've had who did?). Paul just sounds fucking heartless.

panerd 08-01-2013 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui (Post 2845078)
I'd argue Rand Paul's calling people who are asking for money for rebuilding from Hurricane Sandy as "gimme, gimme, gimme" folks will have a MUCH bigger negative effect than a politician not caring about privacy concerns (when's the last President that we've had who did?). Paul just sounds fucking heartless.


Since this board often wants to look at the political side of things and not the moral/ethical side of things I can't think of anything that would play better to Kentucky voters than the way Paul is being portrayed on this issue. What you are saying isn't exactly what happened (Paul was critical that Gov Christie saw no need to want any federal spending cuts to replace his request for disaster relief) but it still works in Paul's favor nonetheless.

panerd 08-01-2013 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 2845052)
I'll give you Ron, but Rand surely doesn't sound like he wants to cut the military.


Again I don't care about defending Rand as much as I did when Ron was misinterpreted/misquoted and I have serious reservations about Rand the politician playing the "game" by backing Romney etc but he most certainly wants to cut the military significantly. Much like his father he feels like we can still maintain the national defense without the overseas national offense. (Which is the significant part of the budget) In fact his stand on this issue seems to almost match exactly with what Obama the '08 candidate/Nobel Peace prize winner campaigned on.

Foreign Policy and National Defense Rand Paul | United States Senator

This is one area where he seems to be carrying his father's torch. (Though I certainly concede if he were placed in an even higher office I don't see him having quite the integrity of his father in sticking with his plan to scale back the military)

ISiddiqui 08-01-2013 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 2845081)
Since this board often wants to look at the political side of things and not the moral/ethical side of things I can't think of anything that would play better to Kentucky voters than the way Paul is being portrayed on this issue. What you are saying isn't exactly what happened (Paul was critical that Gov Christie saw no need to want any federal spending cuts to replace his request for disaster relief) but it still works in Paul's favor nonetheless.


I'm talking more in Presidential aspirations if you are looking political. Obviously this back and forth partially is looking forward to 2016.

panerd 08-01-2013 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui (Post 2845089)
I'm talking more in Presidential aspirations if you are looking political. Obviously this back and forth partially is looking forward to 2016.


Well again I don't see him winning New York, California, or New Jersey and don't see him losing Texas, Mississippi, or South Carolina. So IMO whether it will hurt him or not in places like Ohio or Pennsylvania is it will help.

ISiddiqui 08-01-2013 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 2845090)
Well again I don't see him winning New York, California, or New Jersey and don't see him losing Texas, Mississippi, or South Carolina. So IMO whether it will hurt him or not in places like Ohio or Pennsylvania is it will help.


I don't think its necessarily smart to write off the entire North East in a Republican Primary, but YMMV.

albionmoonlight 08-01-2013 03:33 PM

Nation Just Wants To Be Safe, Happy, Rich, Comfortable, Entertained At All Times | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

Edward64 08-02-2013 07:52 PM

Bummer. Sometimes I wonder if we really needed Nixon to open up China. Wouldn't it have been better if China was still stuck in the 19th century?

China’s first lady beats out Michelle Obama for best-dressed list, to cheers on the Chinese Web
Quote:

When it comes to the love-hate, frenemy-like U.S.-China relationship, there’s been no shortage of competition. You have cyberwars, currency wars, intellectual property wars and, most recently, the tug-of-war over a certain asylum-seeking fugitive leaker.

Now, add to all that a rivalry over who has the best-dressed first lady — a competition in which China was surprisingly anointed the winner this week by Vanity Fair.

For the second consecutive year, Michelle Obama did not make the cut of the magazine’s list of “International Best-Dressed.” But China’s new first lady did. Peng Liyuan “sails onto the list,” as Vanity Fair put it in a photo gallery highlighting Peng’s eye for trendy-yet-stately attire.

The unexpected honor had some Chinese bloggers crowing.


DaddyTorgo 08-02-2013 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 2845440)
Bummer. Sometimes I wonder if we really needed Nixon to open up China. Wouldn't it have been better if China was still stuck in the 19th century?

China’s first lady beats out Michelle Obama for best-dressed list, to cheers on the Chinese Web


LMAO - tell me you're kidding?

Edward64 08-03-2013 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo (Post 2845446)
LMAO - tell me you're kidding?


Somewhat facetious. But do think an argument could be made that (1) if Nixon admin did not open up China (2) they would not be in this upward trajectory and (3) where they seem to have benefited more than the US has.

Edward64 08-09-2013 11:37 PM

I think the right thing directionally.

Snowden revelations force Obama's hand on surveillance program - First Read
Quote:

Analysis -- NSA leaker Edward Snowden’s revelations have forced President Barack Obama’s hand, leading the president to announce new reforms of the government’s classified surveillance programs.

After his administration issued repeated defenses of a National Security Agency monitoring program that collects Americans’ phone and Internet data, Obama announced during a press conference Friday afternoon that reforms to the system will make the collection activities more transparent and "give the American people additional confidence that there are additional safeguards against abuse."

Obama said the changes will include changes to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) court system -- which currently greenlights requests for data gathering -- as well as the creation of both an internal NSA position devoted to privacy and an external working group to evaluate transparency in the program. Officials will also launch a new website next week that will serve as “a hub for further transparency” for interested members of the public.

President Obama described his conversations with Russian President Vladimir Putin during a Friday press conference, saying their talks are "candid" and "blunt." He also emphasized he will not boycott the Olympics as a result of Russia's anti-gay laws. The best message is for gay and lesbian athletes to come home with the gold, Obama said. In other news, the State Department will reopen some of the U.S. embassies that had been close in response to a terror threat. NBC's Andrea Mitchell reports.

"Given the history of abuse by governments, it’s right to ask questions about surveillance by governments, particularly as technology is reshaping every aspects of our lives," he said.


Edward64 08-10-2013 11:29 AM

I don't know how Reid can draw that conclusion that single payer is inevitable? I assume he means government single payer covering the basics but with options for "premium/additional" insurance like in other countries.

Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system - Las Vegas Sun News
Quote:

In just about seven weeks, people will be able to start buying Obamacare-approved insurance plans through the new health care exchanges.

But already, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is predicting those plans, and the whole system of distributing them, will eventually be moot.

Reid said he thinks the country has to “work our way past” insurance-based health care during a Friday night appearance on Vegas PBS’ program “Nevada Week in Review.”

“What we’ve done with Obamacare is have a step in the right direction, but we’re far from having something that’s going to work forever,” Reid said.

When then asked by panelist Steve Sebelius whether he meant ultimately the country would have to have a health care system that abandoned insurance as the means of accessing it, Reid said: “Yes, yes. Absolutely, yes.”


JPhillips 08-15-2013 06:57 PM

More principled conservatism in NC:

Quote:

The Pasquotank County Board of Elections on Tuesday barred an Elizabeth City State University senior from running for city council, ruling his on-campus address couldn’t be used to establish local residency. Following the decision, the head of the county’s Republican Party said he plans to challenge the voter registrations of more students at the historically black university ahead of upcoming elections.

and

Quote:

In a contentious meeting Monday, the new GOP majority on the Watauga elections board voted over the objection of the board’s lone Democrat to eliminate early voting at the Appalachian State student union.
The Watauga board also voted 2-1 Monday to combine the three Boone voting precincts into one, eliminating an election day polling site on campus. More than 9,300 Boone residents will now be slated to cast ballots at a county building that only has about 35 parking spots.

Edward64 08-15-2013 09:33 PM

The realist in me understand he is constrained. The idealist in me is disappointed in him. The GOP in me says he should have set strong ground rules with the coup leaders. If it wasn't a coup before, it is now by default as the military is unlikely to hold free elections anytime soon.

Obama warns of further steps in Egypt, cancels military exercises - CNN.com
Quote:

Washington (CNN) -- President Barack Obama announced Thursday that the United States has canceled joint military training exercises with the Egyptian military and alluded to the fact that his administration could take further steps to deal with the violence in Egypt.

"Going forward, I've asked my national security team to assess the implications of the actions taken by the interim government and further steps we may take as necessary with respect to the U.S.-Egyptian relationship," Obama said.

In a statement from his vacation home on Martha's Vineyard, the president, however, refrained from calling the government overthrow a coup, which would have implications for the military and humanitarian aid the United States sends to Egypt.

"The United States strongly condemns the steps that have been taken by Egypt interim government and security forces," Obama said about this week's Egyptian military crackdown against protests in Cairo. "We deplore violence against civilians."

Obama avoided taking sides with any factions in the country, which his administration has done consistently.

"We don't take sides with any particular party or political figure," Obama said. "We want Egypt to succeed. We want a peaceful, democratic, prosperous Egypt. That's our interest."

The president continued: "America cannot determine the future of Egypt. That's a task for the Egyptian people."



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