I think if people are deadset on lynching PurdueBrad, I'll go along with the day 1 vote idea again. I'll just introduce another candidate.

Vote Eaglefan

Maybe this got corrected, but the last vote count from Danny I see last night as Poli voting both Abe and Telle. I think that should be just Telle.

In my case, I took no action on NTN one way or the other. I just left my vote on EF all day. The act of leaving a vote there could potentially be construed multiple ways, I suppose.

Yes, it's just Telle, I forgot to remove Abe's name from the list.

I'm not saying people are voting Purdue becuase EagleFan was a Needie target, no.

But I am saying that EagleFan, Purdue and NTN were the three top targets. One was lynched and proven good. The Needies then chose to attack one of the other two. Why did they choose to do that?

Purdue is a target right now bcuase of Lathum, yes. But he would have been high on the talk list today anyway, along with EagleFan, for being a remaining contender from yesterday.

awwww.

he's welcome and you're welcome. it's just sometimes in games where he has been bad recently or hasn't been bad in a while it's at least a topic of conversation.

but i think frequently he gets a pass on D1, as does Chief on D1-Mondays, and probably a few other people as well.

I don't mean to say that your vote was made with the express attempt to save him, just that the people in PB's list all put votes on a top candidate who was not ntn, which had an effect of helping him live.

Anyway, the one that struck me the most in PB's list (and his reason) was Telle. So Telle goes all out defending a villager, and that strikes you as bad?

What if Telle wasn't necessarily defending ntn when she was pointing the conversation at PB yesterday?

Why does Telle sound apologetic to PB in discussion directly to him as if understanding she was wrong, yet still say he would be a good choice?

but don't you think looking at your reasoning then that maybe PB isn't a wolf? Why would the wolves be so obvious as to lynch one of the 3, make the other one unable to vote, and thus essentially point us right back at the 3rd? It's like...too easy.

If anything I might argue that EF is the wolf and that by silencing him the wolves are hoping to point the finger at PB. Not that I think this is necessarily true, but maybe it's as true as the idea that PB could be a wolf.

It just seems too "first level thinking" easy that PB is the wolf then. And knowing our crafty wolves they're probably at least on "2nd level" and misdirecting things.

This is where not being able to discuss roles makes things very difficult, because we have no way of group-analyzing Lathum's experience that he can't share with us.

In a way I think it might be an early indication of a limitation of this game that I don't like - because you're essentially forcing everyone to play as islands and stifling group-think and discussion.

and that's probably my longest WW-post in several games

I don't think it's stifling group-think and discussion. You guys are getting plenty of discussion out of it :). It's different though, I admit.

lol

i'm not bitching already or anything - jury's still out on it. i'm just commenting that it's making things...different

That's exactly what I'm saying DT, that the attack on EagleFan would seem mostly like to result in more scrutiny on PB, and not on EagleFan. I'm not sure what other motivation for attacking him there would be.

Yeah, that's what I was going for. Hopefully in the end everyone has fun and has an interesting experience.

I'm not understanding this. How do I sound apologetic? And what was I wrong about?

Just the tone of your post this morning, you sounded apologetic when responding directly to PB. Maybe I'm reading more into things here. I didn't vote for you afterall, I voted for Eaglefan.. Just an observation I noticed.

I'm guessing that Lathum has some information that perhaps pins it between Purdue and another being bad, or that at least gives him a greater than average chance that Purdue is bad. However, my thinking above makes me doubt that he is. I'm going to vote EagleFan at this point unless we get some further analysis, or unless the voting makes me doubt myself.

Vote EAGLEFAN

Apologetic about what? Voting for him? I was just explaining why I voted for him. And based on the little bit we've heard from Lathum today, it looks like I may have lucked out with a good Day 1 vote.

based on clap and my being on the same page with our thinking. very open to change.

UNVOTE PB
VOTE EAGLEFAN

fixed - autumn not clap

As of post #972:

3 - PurdueBrad - Latham (790), hoopsguy (822), dubb (846)
3 - EagleFan - Alan T (951), Autumn (969), DaddyTorgo (971)

So what's the case against EagleFan? Just that the wolves might have targeted him in order to move discussion away from him? Wouldn't it actually put him more in the spotlight as a person of interest?

Maybe I read more into your post then you intended. The way you used the word unfortunate in regards to the run on PurdueBrad, it made me wonder if you believed in your day 1 vote any more. Which is why I asked you afterward who you were voting for today. Your response to that also didn't seem too sure, and listed PB to understand what is going on between Lathum/PB.

It just got me wondering if your quick flip yesterday wasn't necessarily to protect ntn as your words were saying, but moreso to protect Eaglefan.

I've been wrong before though, so possibly am here too. Like I said before I'm having problems where I am not getting strong wolf vibes from people so far this game, so this might be a reach. I don't expect people to follow me, it seems likely that PurdueBrad is dying today, in which we will still learn something from.

A lot of band wagon jumpers against the person who can't even defend himself with a self defense vote. Strikes me as suspicious.

Ah, I see. I labeled the run on PB as unfortunate because of the way it went down. He had one vote, and then simultaneously two others voted on him pretty randomly. So it wasn't a "real" run.. it was just something kind of weird that happened.

I probably will vote vote for PurdueBrad today because I don't like leaving lingering issues. But I was just hoping we'd get more discussion (as we have) rather than us all just jumping on the bandwagon right away.

How is it suspicious?

EF is probably the only candidate that I would consider moving to, short of someone coming out and saying "Player X is a wolf! I scanned him last night!".

I think I've documented the reasons behind this already. I thought EF was the right scan last night. I can see the seer coming here today, being dismayed by a run on another player, and trying to figure out what the heck is going on when he knows that he has caught a wolf on N1. So he would want to make sure to paint EF as non-trusted, in the event he (seer) ends up dead sometime soon. If he can get momentum behind an EF vote, then his scan choice for tomorrow is either PB or Lathum, depending on how he reads today's events.

Anyway, that is where I'm at right now - trying to figure out if we have an actual seer scan on one of the two people with votes right now.

Danny, when you arrive - can you tell us the order of actions in terms of seer scan versus wolf attack/convert?

Figure I may as well ask, as the second major topic I'm chewing on today is the "no kill" last night.

Well if you're right hoops then haven't you just given away the seer as being one of just a couple of people? Why would you be announcing such a theory like that when there's already some momentum behind an EF vote and probably no need to go saying "Hey everybody! The seer is probably voting for EF!"?

Attacking the guy with his hands tied behind his back. If it's not suspicious it's a least a freaking panzy ass thing to do.

I'm used to being called names in WW games by now :)

Doesn't really affect my desire to vote for you. I'm pretty sure that I'm staying here today.

Kill/protect/convert would come first and then the seer scan.

I this whole movement towards PB and EF is strange. EF much stranger than PB. I'm frankly having trouble wrapping my head around this game, simply as I've been busy so far and so much has happened. I'm inclined to vote for neither PB nor EF. Though if that's what it boils down to I'd go PB before EF. Instead I'm going to go in a completely different direction.

Vote hoopsguy

I feel like he's been on the wolf side of steering as opposed to human.

Who would you suggest the people voting for you move their votes to?

Well, me being right would depend on a couple of things happening:
1.) The seer actually agreed with me on the right person to scan last night
2.) They have logged in by now
3.) They have put their vote down already

We've got six votes in the books out of 20 players. We have a few players who have yet to show up today.

I also think that the wolves are naturally on high alert for anyone voting for them, especially when a viable (?) candidate already exists with PurdueBrad.

Anyway, if I have ended up putting the seer in harms way more than they already were with that post, I'm at least a little sorry for doing it.

The one part of the game that I can control is my own vote, and I'm doing the best that I can each day to make it a good one. I've got a day right now that I'm not sure I have a good handle on, and I figure that the majority of the people who are reading this have interests that are aligned with my own. So I'm hoping that posting my thoughts helps create a positive dynamic for me (and others) in reaching a good decision.

Cut EF a break - Philadelphia fans don't have a very big vocabulary and it is hard to express their thoughts with the nuance that you might expect from other fanbases :)

Hey, thought about this on lunch duty. This does NOT mean that Lathum is in on it. We had 3 people up yesterday and lynched one. That means that either EF or I would be up today. By criticizing EF, the wolves remove him from the conversation by getting him some cred (see how arrested people were treated last game), that leaves me with the most heat. They got a bonus by getting Lathum to go after me. But WHY me.

A- I hit on something at some point yesterday that is a wolf

B- EF is a wolf and they're trying to shift it

HOLY CRAP, felt like I had 20 votes on me already!

Nope, not this time around. I'm trying pretty hard to figure out today's votes and I've got a day (today) with more time to spend in-thread than I have for awhile. If people want to follow me, that is fine but I'm just trying to make a good decision with less information than many others, I expect.

However, in a meta-game sense I guess it is good to know that I'm not giving off tells like Passacaglia was last game since you are guessing wrong here :)

One more point on posting "seer" thoughts, and I'm sure that PB especially can attest to this.

If I'm a wolf and think that I've spotted the seer, or narrowed it down to 1-2 players, then I'm keeping that to myself and just offing them at night. I've done this multiple times; it is absolutely a pattern. The last thing, as a wolf, that I would want to do is clue in a bodyguard about who he should be protecting from me.

So, I'm now arguing (I guess) that the fact that I'm publicly talking about potential seer actions is some kind of indicator of my villager-ness.

Just caught up and all I really have to say is I'm glad this didn't turn into an all-day runaway on PB, and that this post struck me oddly.


Because of..


I just remember how I went about dealing with unknown rules/mechanics as a wolf and Pass' post struck me. Dont know if it means anything but it's something I wanted to bring up.

Actually, I felt that the villager response to people being arrested was pretty appropriate -- basically neutral, recognizing that they could still be either one.

As for WHY you, if your thought is that EF is a wolf, doesn't that simply make you the easiest option?

So I'm trying to figure out - how in the heck are there five people with more posts in this thread than me? And several of them with a ton more posts? :eek::eek::eek:

:rant:

:p

Heh, I'm half mock offended. I must admit I was thinking similar thoughts when Lathum said I was acting like when I was a wolf in some other game -- just goes to prove to you all that my villager play is just like my wolf play. Therefore, whenever any of you guys think I'm acting like a wolf, I'm actually a villager. :)

You are ahead of me in posts though. :thumbsup:

And that was one of my points.

I'm not sure how to respond, because I don't know what you're trying to say about my post. I do think you missed some context, though. Yes, I knew we all had roles, but the discussion with hoops was about whether or not two of the roles could have had an overlap such that Lathum's role is similar to ntn's.

Is that what you're trying to say in Point B? I guess I see that. So is Point A based on the assumption that EF is not a wolf?