Interesting.

Not the one I'd have chosen for Shakespeare, but interesting.

Asimov as a 1st round pick? :eek:

The point I was wondering about was the fact that he couldn't use the information though and I think you had missed that part but I do want clarification so we don't run into this in a less cut and dry situation.

Yup, I was wondering what work of his would be chosen, and this had the inside track in my mind. Romeo & Juliet was the other one, but I feel that is much more a "popular" choice, as opposed to a critical choice. Not that Romeo & Juliet is not an accomplished work, and almost certainly the most well-known tragic love story. But there are underlying psychological motivations and brilliant word choices that, IMO, elevate other Shakespeare works like Hamlet, Macbeth and Othello over Romeo & Juliet.

The problem with Shakespeare is that he doesn't fit well into any one category. And most of them have some sort of historical or non-fictional element which makes them even tougher to slot in.

Macbeth would have worked too. Perhaps Romeo and Juliet. But I don't see much difference between those and Hamlet as far the draft goes.

I like that pick, too.

two reasons: a shortage of "series", and the inherent geeky nature of the denizens of the internet. Plus, he's a seminal author, and it was one of the first real classic series that launched a genre.

No, I caught that the first time and the second time you brought it up. If your suggestion was a work by the same author, why not just say it here? If it is from another author, regardless it is a PM that should not happen, because that particular work might fit in another category (many of which do not necessarily exclude short stories), or that other author might have other works that draftee had not considered until the author was mentioned to him.

That is potentially affecting his future picks, and that's why I am against it. And it's not about trusting what you and cronin say about the choice or its effect. I can trust you both completely, and it still should be a rule, because we can't with 100% certainty extend that trust from everyone to everyone.

And, yes, I do want clairification.

Solid choices so far imo. I think the Tolkien controversy is not a big deal - seems like another one that the voters should decide on rather than the rules. If you think it's not a true series, then let it hurt that "team" in the voting.

I'm somewhat surprised Asimov goes this early - let alone not in the sci-fi category, but he's certainly a name author.

Never said it was a problem, just wanted a clarification and you're right, who I told him could technically be chosen again but hey, if he did, it would hurt him more than help him honestly.

DT, that's a solid pick imo. 'Twas high on my board.

I'd have chosen Othello for my own personal bias, but yeah, there's a number of plays and poems that would've worked for a few different categories.

Ahh, that makes it a little more sense.

He may not have the exquisite word choice and writing style of a classic, but there is no doubting he is a giant of science fiction and an amazing story teller.

I figured he would be gone, but disappointed anyway, as it was my intent to make Nightfall, one of the greatest scifi stories written, IMO, as my short story choice.

Interesting. When this is all done,. I will be interested to know who you discussed with him.

I was planning to choose Sonnet 18. Famous, and would have given a poet category and leave fiction open but this is good too. I prefer Macbeth, Othello, and King Lear better among the non histories though.

I might have put Shakespeare in poetry. :)

Too bad this takes out his sonnets, some of which were brilliant.

Personally I thought Shakespeare would go in the series category - the Prince Hal plays, for example.

Heh, we crossposted about sonnets. I forget which one is Sonnet 18. I'll have to go look it up.

Both Asimov and Tolkien go in the "series" category, instead of the fantasy/scifi category. Although the prevalence of series in that genre probably means it will dominate the series section.

Sniff, Sniff, I had him for autobiography. Two of my top choices already taken. Makes it harder but way more fun and interesting than I had hoped for.

Just looked up Sonnet 18. Of course, yes, that would been a very good choice.

Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?
Thou art more lovely and more temperate:

Good point on the crossover there.

What autobiography would you have chosen? I'll admit I haven't ever read any of his nonfiction, and off the top of my head, I thought he mostly wrote scientific text books and texts with his nonfiction work.

I'll have to read The Dead to see how it compares to Nightfall. :)

His own of course but it fits as a series too because he wrote it in two books.

In Memory Yet Green, 1979
In Joy Still Felt 1980

Oh, and he has a book in every category of the dewey decimal system except one so he was going somewhere. :D

lol...the meaning of this word autobiography, what is it again?

(tries and fails to wipe egg off face)

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem:
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's
8. Non-Fiction 1.6 - On the Origin of Species, Charles Darwin
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

No time for lengthy commentary (or the full title), but this is one of the most important scientific works in human history. From Wiki:
"Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species (published 1859) is a seminal work in scientific literature and arguably the pivotal work in evolutionary biology.[1] The book's full title is On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life, while for the 6th edition of 1872 the title was changed to The Origin of Species.[2] It introduced the theory that populations evolve over the course of generations through a process of natural selection. Darwin's book was the culmination of evidence he had accumulated on the voyage of the Beagle in the 1830s and expanded through continuing investigations and experiments since his return.[3]

The book is readable even for the non-specialist and attracted widespread interest on publication. The book was controversial because it contradicted religious beliefs that underlay the then current theories of biology, and it generated much discussion on scientific, philosophical, and religious grounds. The scientific theory of evolution has itself evolved since Darwin first presented it, but natural selection remains the most widely accepted scientific model of how species evolve. The at-times bitter creation-evolution controversy continues to this day."

I'm actually pretty fired up to be last since I like getting two picks in a row. :)

Origin of Species is an interesting choice. Can't knock it but I wouldn't have put it in the first round though.

Great pick for the Non-Fiction category, but strikes me as a bit early.

I think Darwin's a reach, myself.

Origin of the Species was one I was thinking of selecting later to counter my Bible pick. I think getting a good spread that appeals to many will do better in the final voting.

I don't know that I would have selected it here, either, but NM is dead on that its historical importance cannot be overstated.

Non-Fiction is an interesting category for me. I have a feeling those waiting until round 8 or 9 to fill this will find the pickings pretty slim.

It's a really good thing I am not in this contest, going up against literature snobs and scifi geeks. :)

Hey, I resemble those remarks.

Both of them. :)

+1 ;)...

I'm very excited, my #2 overall is still available.

Now watch, you'll have jinxed yourself. :D

If it's the one you PM'ed me you're so screwed.




I kid, I kid. :D

Aw crap....

I need ot think about this since Asimov is what I was going with here...

woohoo

Seldom can you say that a poem has completely changed all literature and culture that came after it. However, my first round pick you can credibly argue that it did. My first round pick in the FOFC Literary Draft is:

Poem - The Iliad by Homer

Fiction
Single Short Story
Poem - 1.7 The Iliad - Homer
Fantasy/Science Fiction
Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
Sport Related
Children's
Non-Fiction
Biography/Autobiography
History

nice pick warhammer. That was definitely on my list.

The interesting thing about Asimov being used for a series is that he really puts a dent in what can be used in sci-fi and short stories. The only issue I have with Foundation is that the series went downhill after the fourth book. But, I think the original Foundation Trilogy is one of the best series of all time.

EDIT: You could also have argued the Robot Trilogy as well. But Foundation is the better known trilogy as well.

Thanks. You really messed up my draft strategy with your pick, but I think I can recover!

Interesting. I had thought a lot about that one, and in that very category. Of course, it is a very long poem, and everyone knows that, but I thought the fact that it has full-fledged story elements would end up putting it in Fiction or (even more boldly) History.

He puts a dent in them, yes, but I am not too concerned about filling those categories myself. The depth of literature in history, in all its forms, means that there should remain excellent choices throughout the draft, in all categories, IMO.

1. Fiction - 1.8 The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, Mark Twain
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

This was actually my #1 pick going in, so I'm glad it's still around at #8. Obviously a seminal classic, and probably the single best example of American fiction.

Great pick! It's one I strongly considered when my turn came around.

dola, I meant the Illiad was great pick :)

Nice, I was going to take him in my picks so you just beat me to it.

Oh, you're such a Homer.

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem 1.9 "The Wasteland" - T.S. Eliot
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

Love, hate it, but you can't deny the power, epicness, beauty and influence of The Wasteland. It was a poem that influenced generations of poets long after him and even today, there's college courses where the entire syllabus deals with just this poem.

The magnum opus of one the greatest poets of all time.

All good choices, these recent ones.

darn. I was totally going to try to get to that next time around.

Is "The Wasteland" anything like "The Waste Land"?

I once had somebody drunk-dial me and read The Wasteland to my answering machine.

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's
8. Non-Fiction Danse Macabre - Steven King
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

I couldn't resist the temptation to snag one of the most popular writers of all time and it is even better since this is a fascinating study of the horror field and into the mind of the man who filled us with it.

I'm honestly surprised it didn't go earlier.

I considered it, but think there are fewer "great series" that are recognizable than there are great poems.

Sorry about that.

Ugh, in my still flu-struck state, I misspelled The Waste Land. Would you guys mind if I went back and fixed the title?

I think everybody knew what you meant, I don't see the harm in editing it.

I have not read Danse Macabre, and I don't doubt you when you say this about it. But I must admit I am disappointed that this is the selection that ends up eliminating all of his other works, among which might have included On Writing (as either Non-fiction or Autobiography), several amazing possibilities for Fiction and Short Story, and lastly, the Dark Tower series for either series or scifi/fantasy.

Having not read Danse Macabre, I cannot say whether it deserves its first round pick (for which it may very well be deserving). Just disappointed this is the choice for King.

well that's the way of it, isn't it?

But isn't part of the strategy to gather the best authors we can? It's easier to fill other categories and while this isn't a top ten book it's a worthy non fiction entry I'd say so I was going with strategy.

So is the overall strategy is get the works only a few heard of out of the way in the first two rounds and leave the more obvious stuff for later?

I mean, as a voter, I will be looking more at the works themselves and not the author.

If so, then I have misunderstood lordscarlet's intent. I thoguht we were drafting the best works of fiction, not the best authors. If we were selecting best authors, why even mention specific works of fiction?

That's open to interpretation, I'd say, though you're probably right. That being said, I've got a decent sized board for series.

Well, good, at least I was not the only one to think this (even if Bucc is not a drafter).

Agreed. I think that is a great value pick.

I'm going for best works. If I can block an author who covers several categories with top works, I'll do it - but I wouldn't want somebody's 4th best work.

Yes and no. The primary emphasis is getting the best collection of works possible, best of course being open to interpretation.

That being said, there is a bit of author strategizing here, but strategizing too much on authors runs the risk of watering down the works selected.

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially) The Harry Potter series - J.K. Rowling
6. Sport Related
7. Children's
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

Again, I couldn't pass up the wildly popular and quite entertaining series that has captivated so many peoples imaginations. Seems like another no brainer at this point.

Again, as a voter, I would have slammed that pick if it was in History. As a non-elite voter (which will make up a percentage of us voting), wouldn't think it would fit in Poetry as much as Fiction.

Hint, don't pick obscure works if you want votes (or try to be too clever and pick a popular work in a wrong category ;) ).

Otherwise, why bother to limit it to one work per author unless the contest is to collect the best authors. Wouldn't really make sense though I'd play in either or both kinds of drafts. I may be confused though so who knows.

Nice one, Axxon.

See?

The Harry Potter series was high on my board, I was VERY surprised it lasted that long.

As a voter, I might make authors a consideration if I can't decide between a few drafters when it's time to vote, but someone taking a not-so-good/not-well-known work from that author will be a strike against them and not a plus. With this pick (the King pick), Axxon's going to need to a have a great draft the rest of the way to make up for this bust of a 1st round pick.

I think Non-Fiction will actually be the easiest catagory to fill, so I don't see the need to throw an old, not-well-known work from King into it.

Axxon needed that pick.

Surprised to see any Fiction picks so early; it's such a large category that I figured it would be held for last behind the harder to fill niches. That being said, you can't argue against Twain and arguably his best work.

Now as far as Twain being the greatest author... I can't say the names of the people who would argue against that :p

Excellent pick, Axxon. I'm surprised it didn't go in the 1st round.

Well, by then I realized that this wasn't the kind of draft that I thought it was. If I can do anything, it is adapt and fact is, I still have Steven King. ;)

I always thought of it as poetry. We learned it as part of the importance of meter in poetry and how that would make things easier to remember and learn as an ancient loremaster.

Also, I thinkn it could be debated whether it fits in fiction or history. I went the safe route and used it as my poem.

1. Fiction 2.2 Lolita - Vladimir Nabokov
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem 1.9 "The Waste Land" - T.S. Eliot
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

I thought a long time about this pick and eyed some other possibilities, but in the end, my list wouldn't feel complete without what in my personal opinion is the greatest novel ever written, by one of the two authors who have had the biggest influence on me as a writer.

Is it a reach? Maybe, especially with some other options I was strongly considering in this slot, but the end, an Izulde draft without Lolita is like a Dolphins team without Dan Marino.

It just wouldn't be right.

I agree with you. A couple of the requisite authors have been picked already but those would be a given and it would come down to chosing the best known works by such authors, for those that would have nothing to do with taking English Lit.

In other words, there is nothing Izulde can do now to win this draft. :)

Steven King? Would he be related to Stephen King by any chance? :)

Finally, there's my 1.1 pick. Harry Potter, like it or not, trascended the world of books and set so many ridiculous records that it goes beyond literature. Nice pick, Axxon.

Total reach. You could have had that one as a UFA.

;)

Splendid HP pick, by the way, Axxon. :)

What I don't see is why even have a rule about only using one work per author if that's only going to be a minor point. It's a lot of limit for minimal strategy and there really aren't many rules to this thing to start with. I'd think the ones that are there would mean something.

So, I am adapting and will draft according to what the audience wants but since this wasn't really clear, I think you should cut me some slack for not realizing how trivial the most restrictive rule in the contest was going to be. :p

Not when you're trying to take an octagenarian with alzheimers through a password reset while you're typing. :)

That was a bad one though.

I know, I know... and the rest of my board is glaring at me and saying "Hey you! Our adjusted grade is a lot higher!"

Ah well.

I think that si what we've learned from the previous draft contests. You leave the most popular category for later unless there are a few first rounders that have to be gotten out of the way, if that makes sense.

To be fair, this is the first draft contest I've ever participated in, so I can chalk it up to rookie mistake combined with a foolish sentimentality?

I have somehow totally missed all the other draft contests. What a darn shame.

I thought it was primarily there to ensure a diversified draft. How fun would it be if half the drafters took King novels? If half the drafters took works from Mark Twain, or poems from T.S Eliot?


It's not trivial considering a lot of the greatest works out there are from a small group of authors. Yeah, it would be important for someone to grab King because he has written some of the greatest works for the 20th century. It is very important to grab the most known and respected authors (because they've made the best works and it prevents other people from taking the other great works).

Your pick just sucked. :p