PurdueBrad - 3 - AlanT (44), ntndeacon (72), path12 (88)
Alan T - 3 - PurdueBrad (73), Schmidty (76), RendeR (90)
path12 - 1 - jeheinz72 (74)
ntndeacon - 1 - Passacaglia (75)
Schmidty - 1 - Anxiety (80)
Chief Rum - 1 - Thomkal (84)
Barkeep49 - 1 - Chief Rum (94)

I'm not arguing for the argument. I'm just answering Barkeep's question.

Chief, if you're around before deadline, I agree that I'm not a good choice for day one and, although I have a minute doubt, Alan T. isn't a better choice either (except for that last post, I've got nothing on Alan), so which way would you go? Is Barkeep your best option?

There is no best option. It's Day One. No one is more guilty than anyone else right now. At least I have a reason for voting Barkeep, even if it's a crappy, out of game one.

If this is really the case, then you had hours to bring this up, but instead you waited until after I left. You said I did a hit and run? Are you purposely trying to mislead everyone else or just saying things to save your skin? Want me to really go back and read out the timestamps of my "hit and run"?

Your lies are making less sense the more you post. Every single person who voted for me was around while I was all day, and only chose to vote me hours after I voted you and right after I left. How convienant

Hehe, I hear you. I'm willing to go another route, but at this point I've got to keep the self-defense vote on Alan T.

Alan, I just thought I'd let you know I'm leaning toward voting for you. I think PB is getting an unfair shake enough as it is getting at least one vote just because he was the seer in our first attempt. Plus I think you're coming onto him too hard for voting for you -- I could see it for the other two that have voted for you, but you voted for PB first.

And for people to see the hit and run that Purdue claims:

11:40am - my vote on purduebrad after the day 1 reset
11:56am, 11:58am, 2:56pm - Purdue brad posts
2:51pm, 2:52pm, 2:53pm, 2:54pm, 2:55pm, 3:24pm - Render posts

3:41pm - I post I am leaving for possibly the rest of the night

At this point I have 0 votes. All votes came after this.

My problem isn't necessarily that. It is this: You vote for me earlier, we re-roll/re-start, and you put your vote on me early for no other reason than, "I was going to vote for him last time, might as well do it again." ??? So, I was going to vote for you four games ago, might as well do it now?

If you're a villager, you and I are doing a fabulous job of screwing ourselves.

So then vote for one of the people who you think is using faulty logic about the day 1 seer thing. I haven't said that was my reason once. Unless you have some reason to protect him that you would like to share with us.

Again, my claim is much more based on the idea that because you were going to vote for me before, might as well do it again. Your voting instincts are great, you would've lynched the seer game one, trying again? Maybe I'm too close to it because the vote is on me, but I don't see the logic.

Hmm, PB seems to wonder just what your reason is then, I believe.

I am not screwing anything. I placed a day one vote on someone for as good of a reason as anyone usually has for a day 1 vote. I placed it with plenty of time for anyone to rebut and instead you chose to wait for me to leave to sneak attack me.

If you had a problem with my vote, why did you not choose to even bring it up or mention it once while I was here? You totally ignored it and only came after me while I had no defense.

Are you afraid that I am the duke or seer or bodyguard or something and will either kill you or reveal and get you killed? So you chose to strike at someone to remove a villager day one who couldn't fight back?

Thats what it seems like to me.

I have been this aggressive in my defense only one other time and I was a villager then and I am now. Unfortunately my appeal went to Hoops who of course was a wolf so maybe I'm going through the same problem here. Look, vote me, vote me. Arguing with you isn't going to help my case with our other villagers so fine.

I just told you what my reason for protecting him would be -- it's the principle of the thing. I think ntn knows better than to get things started on PB than to use such faulty reasoning -- he is a math professor, after all! It just makes me worried about the bandwagon on him in general. I'd still been content to see what happens with the tiebreaker, but I'm starting to think this is a situation where I need to be involved.

Who has a reason to vote for someone on day 1? Only the wolves do. He has given me a much better reason to vote him with his sneak attack though.

I am amazed by how many people are coming to defend purduebrad though. I wonder which of you are wolves.

I think Alan's attempt to hide beind a repeat vote is good enough to tip the scales in his favor.

Vote Alan

Well my vote is staying on Purdue Brad. If you feel that is a good reason to lynch me then bring it on. I will single handedly pick through all of your pieces to figure out which of you are the wolves if I must.

Well since you all are amazing with your deductive reasoning. I am the bodyguard.

So, I will kill every last single one of you until I figure out which are the wolves.

Alan, look, you aren't changing, I'm not changing. We're stalemate, fine.

But how do day one votes go? The person that gets defensive gets voted out. So you wanted me to spend all day arguing with you? That wouldn't stink of desperation, so yeah, that would help. So I made the assumption that you would be around at deadline (which you announced you wouldn't be at 3:41 and bolted and yet here you are) if someone actually followed suit voting-wise. So now it's debate time simply because we're on the block. You're mad because at 3:41 you post, without any other warning, I'm out and think people voted when you couldn't defend yourself? Like we had warning.

Okay, now that I see what Alan posted, I'll change. If you're BG and I hope you are, let's try this:

unvote Alan T.

Actually you did have warning. I posted last night that I would be gone all afternoon/evening.

Want to dig your hole deeper?

I am still not changing. You sneak attacked me, lied and tried to mislead people. Either you are a wolf or a villager with some other agenda.

Barring another reveal, I'd like to see people head elsewhere now. How about ntn?

You seem to be mistaken. My vote's not on you. If PB was a brother wolf, it would be, don't you think?

I'm just pointing out the irony of you telling someone to vote because of their reason when you yourself haven't even stated a reason for your vote. Just because you have "reason" now because PB came back hard on you doesn't mean I look away from your reasonless vote early on.

All votes have reasons, regardless of whether they're good or not. I think it's reasonable you be more forthcoming why you voted for PB.

Sorry for not going back through what happened last night, that's my fault. I take the blame there and I'll trust that rather than go find the exact post. My vote is off you, keep your's on me, you're still wrong but I can't waste time diagnosing the reason any more. I've got to find someone else to put the tie on.

What sneak attack btw? Even though I'm not voting for you, my vote was on you well before you left. So who's the liar now?

The fact that he missed this is why I think PB is not really after you in a wolfish way.

Aren't you playing both sides of the fence nicely?

I had 0 votes when I left. You voted after I left.

I have to go somebody that is already on me rather than risk bringing someone else over.

vote path12

:rolleyes:

At some point, NOT aggressively attacking back at PB might have been a good idea.

I swear, I don't know why good roled players ever even open their mouths on Day One (that's a general criticism, not specifically aimed at Alan).

Yup, that's me! Being all wolfy again.

I didn't attack anyone until I came back tonight earlier than I expected.. What do you think my reaction was seeing that a bunch of people who could easily have voted for me while I was around chose to do so only after I left?

You get mad at people voting you for being quiet on mondays that you work and aren't around yet don't see my issue here? That doesn't sit right with me at all.

Looking at the time, you're right Alan. I put my vote in when I saw that you bailed. My fault again. As I said, we're probably screwing ourselves with this vote but my attention to detail is bad this game so if that gets me lynched, so be it. No motive other than putting a vote on somebody that didn't have any kind of reason but I wasn't a pile on vote and we do need to examine that and those that piled on me (assuming you're a villager).

Unvote Alan

I'm inclined to believe him D1, I suppose.

I agree with this. There seems to be some kind of rule people have that if they post that they're going to be gone, they should be treated with kid gloves. I'm usually the wuss of the WW group, but I don't follow this line of thinking. Show why you shouldn't be lynched while you are here, rather than assuming you should get a chance to defend yourself once attacked.

That said, pretty much any Day 1 vote is going to be unfair.

I don't think you should just sit and take it, especially as BG. But I think you came out too strong and with poor reasoning. The "too strong" pinged everyone's radars, and then the poor reasoning locked us in.

Your issue and mine are apples and oranges. You were coming back. And you were here for a good deal of the day. Everyone knows I won't be around to defend myself, so votes on me are extremely suspicious.

As for me "getting mad" about Monday votes, I don't bother anymore, because I know those people are just stupid.

Well I would assume a villager wouldn't want to blindside a seer without a chance of letting him defend himself. Only a wolf would do that right?

Alan and I both probably came out too strong so Alan, my bad for my part. Again, at this point, at least I know I'm going to get lynched for lack of attention to detail. Anyway Alan, no hard feelings hopefully.

How would anyone, wolf or villager, know who the seer is?

Well good, then I don't have to try to be leniant and less likely to vote for you on day 1s anymore then. Glad you cleared that up for me!

I guess I always assumed that unless you have some devious underhanded reason for it, you don't kill a new person on day 1, you don't kill someone after they leave on day 1 and you give people a chance to defend themselves on day 1.

Later in the game, more has been established, and its all fair game, but on day 1, I just assumed everyone would follow the same "gentleman" rules so to speak.

I guess thats not the case. So be it

I never have hard feelings, its just a game and even though your move today was very anti-villagerish, it doesnt make me think less of you as a person.

I think you're being too focused on yourself here. The wolves on Day 1 don't decide to go after someone because he can't defend himself -- I've never seen that. In fact, if anything, the wolves are much more sporting than that. Anyway, there's a ton of options out there for the wolves -- they usually sit back and ride the wave.

I assume you know what i meant and are being overly difficult for dramatic effect.

Let's get some stuff going.

UNVOTE NTNDEACON
VOTE PATH12

Not to be a complete smart ass but then logic would be to follow these rules if one is a wolf:

Pick new guys to be wolves with you (assuming you are the brutal or captain or whatever)
Always be gone on day one

I think people would find it pretty unsporting to see someone lying about Real life stuff just because of a game. I am pretty sure most people don't do that. When Chief says he will be working, we assume he isn't just sitting at home refreshing this page laughing at us all.

I think it's likely we're looking at villager vs villager here. I'll go ahead and cast a vote for the only other guy who has multiple votes.

Vote path

FTR: I hadn't see Pass's vote when I cast mine.

If you have had good reason to vote for me and did not because I wasn't going to be around, that's foolish of you. If you have several equally good candidates and vote for me, knowing I won't be around, that's a bit worse.

Generally, I abide by what you put there, except I would state the "after they leave on day 1" rule to only apply to someone who didn't spend much of the day here already. Such as people like myself who leave early, early in the morning and often can't post within 20 hours of deadline.

If people have good reason to vote for you, why should they not be allowed to vote for you?

Yeah I think that lying about RL stuff would be supabad and I just count on people not doing it. It is right up there, to me, with not PM'ing someone except as allowed, and only playing as 1 person.

Chief: I think Alan's agreeing with you to some extent which is why he's critical of PB, but not schmidty or render for the vote.

No, actually, I legitimately wonder what you were getting at? How does anyone know they're doing that unless the seer outright reveals and they still come at them hard without good reason?

No one but the seer knows he is the seer at the start of the game.

not Pm'ing someone, eh?


hahahahhahahahaha ;)

You either are purposely misconstruing my point or just missing it completely.

I never said people shouldn't vote for me. I said that all of the people who voted for me were around in the thread during the day while I was here and not a single one of them voted for me or even mentioned my vote as "suspicious" or in any other detail.. yet only after I left did they find it suspicious? Nothing changed in the 5 hours after I posted my vote and they posted their votes for me.. They should have brought it up earlier and not waited till after I left (as I had previously said I would)

He has a funny way of "agreeing" with me.

The wolves know who each other are, the villagers do not. Why would you want to randomly take a whack at someone who you know won't be there to defend themselves on day 1 in case they have some role that needs defense? You could take out a seer or bodyguard or something that could otherwise role reveal to save themselves.

I don't understand what is so hard to understand about this.

Render had plenty of time to vote for me and was around most of the afternoon. I didn't see Schmidty around after the game restart before I left.

This is what I have, with a bit more than five minutes to deadline:

PurdueBrad - 3 - AlanT (44), ntndeacon (72), path12 (88)
path12 - 3 - jeheinz72 (74), Passacaglia (147), Barkeep49 (149)
Alan T - 2 - Schmidty (76), RendeR (90)
Schmidty - 1 - Anxiety (80)
Chief Rum - 1 - Thomkal (84)
Barkeep49 - 1 - Chief Rum (94)


Let me know if I have made an error, please.

Actually, you have been suggesting that very thing. That people not vote for you because you were going to be away.

I see your point, though, about it being more suspicious to lay that vote down after you leave, stating you would not be back for some time. I still think you came on way too strong, though, and now we have an outed BG.

Same point though, why take a whack at someone when you aren't around to hear their defense? That makes about as much sense. Wouldn't no lynch have made more sense? If forced to reveal and you aren't there, what good does that do?

Show me where I suggested that once. I said it was very suspicious that they waited until after I left to blindside me. I never once said they shouldn't vote me at all. . I said many many times that my issue was them waiting until I left.

You have to vote for someone, Alan. There are no guarantees that any one player will be around to see a vote against them.

If the reason is good enough, I don't see a problem with voting for someone, even after they say they will be gone. The quality of the reason, though, is subjective.

No one should get an automatic free pass on any day in WW unless they are absolutely proven.

I agree fully. Glad you see my side of this. That is why I placed my vote a good 4 - 5 hours before I left to see any response or defense.. to which there was none, zero, zilch..

I purposely voted early just for that reason, I wanted time to hear any response before I left. Glad you finally see my side of the story and I expect you will vote yourself now for such a horrible offense!

Don't have time to catch up. Do I need to move my vote for any reason?

Nice. Whassup, BK and Pass?

Alan, did you miss when I asked the logic on voting me based on the previous game? What other defense is there that early?!?! There was no logic to that.

That was asked before you left btw but I won't patronize you by time-stamping it. I really hope you are BG since I moved my vote because I will be kicking myself for many games if not.

Sorry. I think Alan and PB are both villagers and you were the only other person around.

I actually have things against people with P names. After you, I am coming after Path and Passacaglia.

Cool. Real bad call though.

So your sarcastic posts about the "gentlemanly" way to play Day One WW were disingenuine then? You actually believe that people who say they will be gone for the day should get voted for, that new people should be killed on Day One and that people who can't defend themselves should be voted for?

deadline

So, this is what I still have:

PurdueBrad - 3 - AlanT (44), ntndeacon (72), path12 (88)
path12 - 3 - jeheinz72 (74), Passacaglia (147), Barkeep49 (149)
Alan T - 2 - Schmidty (76), RendeR (90)
Schmidty - 1 - Anxiety (80)
Chief Rum - 1 - Thomkal (84)
Barkeep49 - 1 - Chief Rum (94)


You all have a few more seconds to correct me, then it becomes final.

Hehe, now that's a reasoning I'll take! Alan, I stand by the fact that I believe (despite the one post that I had issue with) that you are a villager and more than likely your reveal is true but I am too. I understand that you'll be going after me all day tomorrow if I make it through this vote and the night so I guess more fun tomorrow, yay.

Didn't PB vote for path?

I voted Path unless I forgot to bold it (which I understand)

In post 131 PB voted for path. That's why I voted for him, since it gave him a second vote.

Post 131 is my vote for Path12

path12 - 4 - jeheinz72 (74), Passacaglia (147), Barkeep49 (149), PurdueBrad (131)
PurdueBrad - 3 - AlanT (44), ntndeacon (72), path12 (88)
Alan T - 2 - Schmidty (76), RendeR (90)
Schmidty - 1 - Anxiety (80)
Chief Rum - 1 - Thomkal (84)
Barkeep49 - 1 - Chief Rum (94)

Ok, my apologies, this is what I have then. Give me a few minutes and I'll have results.

Don't suppose there is any chance path is a wolf, is there?

Now I know you are being difficult on purpose.




Once again, my only beef is that it all happened after I left while they sat around all day with the opportunity to do so. If they wanted to vote me before I left, then hey its part of the game, and I've said that I have no problems with people day 1 voting me in the past many times.

I'm hoping since if he's not, I'm likely the next one to go.

Now I guess the wolves get to wonder if I protected myself or someone else.

Nope. I'm the duke. As we'll soon see.

Path12 CHANGES THE VOTE!

Today's lynch victim is Barkeep49.

Barkeep49 is a wolf!

Pms going out, day 2 will begin in a few minutes.

Christ, two reveals...

Hmm. How 'bout that?

And MY beef is that you came out so strong, you attracted even more attention to yourself and got yourself outed. So I guess we both have our beefs to spit.

Alan T has been killed by wolves - he was the bodyguard.

Day 2 has begun - deadline Wednesday 9:00pm Eastern.

Nice job Path12! I think between this and the game were AE duked off of Hoops are the only two times I've seen a duke nail a wolf. WTG.

Wow, way to go path. And I voted for a wolf. Well, then, two of us are right, at least.

I guess Alan didn't protect himself. I probably wouldn't have either if I were in his shoes. Hard to make a right call; just ends up being 50-50.

Ha! At least I called that one right!

A shame. Barkeep voted for path. If he had voted somewhere else, we might have had another data point toward building an early COT, which is even more important now that we have lost the BG (and the duke, technically).

I was amazed that you were the only who did that after my initial goof.

This was a pretty high cost day but we got a wolf, which has been rare on day one. Path is obviously our one COT and Chief Rum is probably second so I'll be following your leads. Nice job gentlemen.

lol...I was about to say, "Well, duuuh, he came out and said it", when I realized you meant the 50-50 shot, not that he was the BG.

Okay, now get out of here, wolfy.

And speaking of wolfy, look, not trying to throw a mess into all this, but the rules state that the wolf lover has duke powers. It's not out of the realm of possibility that path is the wolf lover.

I strongly lean toward giving him the benefit of the doubt, but I think it's important we don't forget that.

Well, it was technically a meta-game reason and I only coulda gotten away with it on Day One. I'm not surprised people with more scruples than me didn't choose to follow me on to you. :)