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stevew 01-30-2006 11:11 PM

Those screenshots look like Lego characters playing Football.

biological warrior 01-31-2006 12:27 AM

Bring back Legends of Football.

Bonegavel 01-31-2006 12:31 AM

Without intending to sounding too negative, this game is going to suck the most enormous donkey testicles that have ever been produced by ID/Evolution.

There isn't one post on that forum that leads me to believe that this game will be anything but a waste of time.

Besides, more money has been thrown at the madden franchise than any other football game in history and they still can't get the 3d aspect of the game right... how does this game have any chance?

Folks that play these types of sim games demand absolute accuracy. There is no way on earth this guy is going to be able to accomplish anything near satisfactory simulations.

At least madden has pretty graphics... from a simulation standpoint, madden is terrible. At this point in technology, you cannot have a football sim with the spreadsheet power of FOF and an accurate on the field simulation (again,that not even the front-runner madden gets right). Football is just too complex for our slow computers.

Someday? Yes. Now? No, especially by an indie developer with only a track record of missed deadlines.

sabotai 01-31-2006 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonegavel
Football is just too complex for our slow computers.

I could not disagree with this statement more.

Everything said about Maximum Football, however, I do agree with.

gstelmack 01-31-2006 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonegavel
At this point in technology, you cannot have a football sim with the spreadsheet power of FOF and an accurate on the field simulation (again,that not even the front-runner madden gets right). Football is just too complex for our slow computers.


B.S. Madden hasn't done it yet because Madden focuses on joystick jockeys, not armchair coaches.

Ragone 01-31-2006 06:07 AM

Hmm... i may get this game.. just to see if a 8088 processor can handle those bad ass graphix!

Samdari 01-31-2006 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonegavel
At this point in technology, you cannot have a football sim with the spreadsheet power of FOF and an accurate on the field simulation (again,that not even the front-runner madden gets right). Football is just too complex for our slow computers


To pile one, you are really wrong about this.

The reasons that nobody has released a game that does both well is economics. To develop such a game would cost more money than developing a game that does one well, and they would not be able to raise the price (since the only acceptable price for a new game is $50).

Football pro 97 did both well, and was released in 96. I don't think football has gotten much more complicated, or computers slower, in that time.

ice4277 01-31-2006 08:54 AM

I just re-read some of what SD posted on page 1 from the Maximum Football forum. I loved this from the designer/programmer/whatever:

"I posted a new build for the testers on Sunday night. Lets see what happens with that."

Gotta love the confidence!

Bonegavel 01-31-2006 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabotai
I could not disagree with this statement more.

Everything said about Maximum Football, however, I do agree with.

So you are of the opinion that it is possible to accurately model 22 individual A.I.s on the field so as to be indistinguishable from the real thing?

Somebody needs to include this in a memo to the Madden Team.

I may not have the most knowledge of football, but I know it when I see it. The current state of computer power isn't enough to model the game exactly as we watch it on Sundays.

I don't want a graphical representation of the game until it can perfectly match life (and someday technology and programming will get there), otherwise-- what is the point? We nitpick with Jim and Arlie to get the text portion of it right; imagine how crazy you would be watching the game unfold in 3d on your screen and you see the AI doing stupid shit.

Maybe Jim or Arlie could weigh-in on this and tell me I'm full of shit and that we can do this with today's machines, but I highly doubt it.

rkmsuf 01-31-2006 09:42 AM

I've never seen so much talk about such a ham and egg project.

gstelmack 01-31-2006 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonegavel
So you are of the opinion that it is possible to accurately model 22 individual A.I.s on the field so as to be indistinguishable from the real thing?

Yes. Or at least close enough for gaming purposes. Heck, most of the football games out there really only have one or two annoying AI gaps, and they don't focus on AI really much at all (again, they're building AIs that are good opponents for joystick jockeys, not AIs that are good football players). If this were the focus of a game (a 3D football SIM rather than a 3D football action game), there's no reason it couldn't be very solid.

John Galt 01-31-2006 09:43 AM

I think the only thing missing from this thread is a post by Wrongway saying "this will be the greatest selling game of all time. And Wie sucks." Sadly, that can't happen.

MizzouRah 01-31-2006 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonegavel
So you are of the opinion that it is possible to accurately model 22 individual A.I.s on the field so as to be indistinguishable from the real thing?

Somebody needs to include this in a memo to the Madden Team.

I may not have the most knowledge of football, but I know it when I see it. The current state of computer power isn't enough to model the game exactly as we watch it on Sundays.

I don't want a graphical representation of the game until it can perfectly match life (and someday technology and programming will get there), otherwise-- what is the point? We nitpick with Jim and Arlie to get the text portion of it right; imagine how crazy you would be watching the game unfold in 3d on your screen and you see the AI doing stupid shit.

Maybe Jim or Arlie could weigh-in on this and tell me I'm full of shit and that we can do this with today's machines, but I highly doubt it.


You may be right with the "perfectly match life" portion of your statement, but the FPS series was/is/might always be the best of both worlds. It had some problems, but it did a lot right. The series was evolving like Madden does in terms of graphics, but Sierra pulled the plug. :(

dawgfan 01-31-2006 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonegavel
So you are of the opinion that it is possible to accurately model 22 individual A.I.s on the field so as to be indistinguishable from the real thing?

Absolutely. The reason they don't doesn't have to do with computational power so much as it does economics - the amount of time and energy to tweak the AI algorithms to approach 95% of reality is simply not worth the payoff.

And even if they did, people would still bitch. Think about every time an AI player misread/forgot/blew the play call and was wildly out of position (just like what happens every Sunday in reality) - the gamer would bitch and moan about what a "stupid" AI it is.

Now, what may also be limiting the AI is the connection to the 3D engine. There's a range of possibilities that can happen when you connect the logic code of the game to the 3D engine, ranging from the logic has absolute control over the movement of the players at the expense of the animations to the animations have complete control at the expense of the logic. Madden runs closer to the first extreme - they realize it's more important to get the player in the right spot than to have the animation run smoothly. That's why you see foot sliding and awkward looking transitions. But I think they do provide a slight amount of concession to the animations at the expense of the logic to keep the animations from looking too awful.

As game console processors get more powerful, this will allow for more sophisticated blending systems to be integrated into the 3D engines which will allow the logic code to completely govern movement in the games while also providing very realistic animations and transitions.

Surtt 01-31-2006 01:45 PM

It is a trade off.
AI takes lots of cpu time.
Graphics takes lots of cpu time.
Which do you think Madden chooses?

CraigSca 01-31-2006 01:48 PM

I'll be the lone dissenting vote here. If I was a solo developer, I'd be pretty damn proud if these were the graphics I was able to offer.

Bee 01-31-2006 01:54 PM

The graphics don't bother me at all, I'd be more concerned about how well the AI and career play turns out (assuming the game is actually released at some point).

astrosfan64 01-31-2006 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonegavel
So you are of the opinion that it is possible to accurately model 22 individual A.I.s on the field so as to be indistinguishable from the real thing?

Somebody needs to include this in a memo to the Madden Team.

I may not have the most knowledge of football, but I know it when I see it. The current state of computer power isn't enough to model the game exactly as we watch it on Sundays.

I don't want a graphical representation of the game until it can perfectly match life (and someday technology and programming will get there), otherwise-- what is the point? We nitpick with Jim and Arlie to get the text portion of it right; imagine how crazy you would be watching the game unfold in 3d on your screen and you see the AI doing stupid shit.

Maybe Jim or Arlie could weigh-in on this and tell me I'm full of shit and that we can do this with today's machines, but I highly doubt it.


They can do it in SIGAMES Football Manager. What makes you think they can't do it in American Football.

astrosfan64 01-31-2006 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surtt
It is a trade off.
AI takes lots of cpu time.
Graphics takes lots of cpu time.
Which do you think Madden chooses?


Wrong.

Graphics are generally done with the video card now. The Processor has very little to do with the graphics.

sovereignstar 01-31-2006 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrosfan64
My face


Wrong!

astrosfan64 01-31-2006 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignstar
Wrong!


I don't get it.

dawgfan 01-31-2006 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrosfan64
Wrong.

Graphics are generally done with the video card now. The Processor has very little to do with the graphics.

This is correct - most (if not all) of the graphics processing is handled by the GPU, not the CPU.

JeffR 01-31-2006 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrosfan64
They can do it in SIGAMES Football Manager. What makes you think they can't do it in American Football.


If anything, the real trick is having the players make mistakes. An AI quarterback can look at all his receivers on a play and make the highest-percentage pass 100% of the time. To be a realistic model, though, he has to make bad choices occasionally, and his reaction time has to be slowed down to something less than instant.

gstelmack 01-31-2006 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrosfan64
Wrong.

Graphics are generally done with the video card now. The Processor has very little to do with the graphics.

Hehehe. You're funny.

Maybe for actually DRAWING the graphics, but there is still a TON of setup work in deciding what to draw. Trust me, the rendering folks still want access to PLENTY of CPU for their work.

Bonegavel 01-31-2006 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrosfan64
They can do it in SIGAMES Football Manager. What makes you think they can't do it in American Football.

I'll concede that Soccer must be a little more complicated than just running around on a big field trying to kick a little ball in a giant goal, but please, American Football is way more complicated than Soccer.

sabotai 01-31-2006 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonegavel
So you are of the opinion that it is possible to accurately model 22 individual A.I.s on the field so as to be indistinguishable from the real thing?

Absolutely.

Quote:

I may not have the most knowledge of football
And exactly how knowledgable are you in the field of computer programming and artificial intelligence?

astrosfan64 01-31-2006 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonegavel
I'll concede that Soccer must be a little more complicated than just running around on a big field trying to kick a little ball in a giant goal, but please, American Football is way more complicated than Soccer.


I don't think so. American football is only 4 to 10 seconds long per play. Soccer is continous flow.
When a player has a ball in soccer he must make a ton of decisions.

In football, a lineman either blocks or well blocks. Granted he must decided who to block. But, in general he either man blocks or zone blocks. Now there are positions that require more thought such as the QB, but in general on a play a person is given a command. He is supposed to perform the action the playbook tells him too.

Either game can be modeled accurately. I believe both would take years of tweaking the engine and input from experts in the field. Years meaning, it took SI Games about 8 years or more to accurately depict 2d gameplay. I don't believe you can say one is easier or harder then the other.

All I want is a 2d model, simple x and o for a football game. That will prove the engine.

Bonegavel 01-31-2006 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabotai
And exactly how knowledgable are you in the field of computer programming and artificial intelligence?

I forget which version of Quake it was (maybe III) but John Carmack (a man that knows a little about this stuff) spoke about AI and how extremely difficult it is to code. He also mentioned the amount of CPU that needs to be dedicated to each "bot" and the number wasn't small (even for that time), and that is just for simple FPS games.

Keep in mind that this is all way beyond simple if/then logic.

Yes, I know you are a coder. I've written my share of c++ apps in my day, so, while I'm not making a living at it, I at least can look at this with some knowledge of how this stuff is structured.

moriarty 01-31-2006 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonegavel
I forget which version of Quake it was (maybe III) but John Carmack (a man that knows a little about this stuff) spoke about AI and how extremely difficult it is to code. He also mentioned the amount of CPU that needs to be dedicated to each "bot" and the number wasn't small (even for that time), and that is just for simple FPS games.

Keep in mind that this is all way beyond simple if/then logic.

Yes, I know you are a coder. I've written my share of c++ apps in my day, so, while I'm not making a living at it, I at least can look at this with some knowledge of how this stuff is structured.


I think the issue is that a FPS like Quake has to run at so many frames per second to look good (regardless of whether the GPU is doing the rendering work). If you have multiple logic/movement decisions going on, they all have to be able to occur within that frame rate timespan. Perhaps if you took a less graphics intensive appraoch like FM, you can get by with a lower framerate and have more time to run logic intensive routines between each frame.

sabotai 01-31-2006 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonegavel
I forget which version of Quake it was (maybe III) but John Carmack (a man that knows a little about this stuff) spoke about AI and how extremely difficult it is to code. He also mentioned the amount of CPU that needs to be dedicated to each "bot" and the number wasn't small (even for that time), and that is just for simple FPS games.

Keep in mind that this is all way beyond simple if/then logic.

I spend more time reading, designing and coding AI than I do any one other thing, so I know a bit about this too. And if the AI bots for Quake 3 were the pinnicle of his AI expertise, I hope he sticks to just the math and graphics engine programming (Carmack is a genius, and I do look up to him, but he's not going to be god at everything. For instance, he's just not that good of a game designer and he's even acknowledged that. And AI is more about design than it is technical.).

Besides, an AI bot for Q3 is not an AI bot for football. They are two very different things.

I have a pretty good idea as to what would be needed to create a (2D top down) simulation of football and the AI required (and yes, well beyond simple if/then logic). It's very do-able.

Groundhog 01-31-2006 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonegavel
I'll concede that Soccer must be a little more complicated than just running around on a big field trying to kick a little ball in a giant goal, but please, American Football is way more complicated than Soccer.


Out of the major sports, I can think of few that would be easier (note: this does still not mean easy) to have a fluid 2D display for than American football, except for of course baseball. Basketball/soccer/ice hockey/rugby etc. are all fluid sports that are, by and large, continous. With American football it's a down at a time, and the offense and defense are both coming out with set plays. Of course there's still a heck of a lot that goes on down on the field, but after the play is over, the whole thing resets and everyone is back in position.

kcchief19 01-31-2006 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samdari
To pile one, you are really wrong about this.

The reasons that nobody has released a game that does both well is economics. To develop such a game would cost more money than developing a game that does one well, and they would not be able to raise the price (since the only acceptable price for a new game is $50).

Football pro 97 did both well, and was released in 96. I don't think football has gotten much more complicated, or computers slower, in that time.

Largely I agree. To have a game with the graphics of a Madden game with the financial engine of FOF has nothing to do with CPU resources, video cards or anything else -- it has to do with the fact that you are talking about double the development time and resources. You're essential designing two games.

Sierra's FPS was a hybrid -- but I'd say that rather than double development time, they spend the same amount of development time as say Madden did, but re-allocated resources from graphics to the spreadsheet side. As a result, you got a game that wasn't as good as Madden graphically and a game that wasn't as good as FOF spreadsheet wise. I think Sierra also wisely built onto the game each year rather than starting from scratch. Unfortunately, with '99 they decided to do just that and showed that you can't do high-end graphics and high-end spreadsheet within the traditional development cycle. Given another six months and another $15/game, they could have pulled it off.

You can't get a football game with Madden-esque graphics and a FOF-esque engine without adding another $15 in price at least, and the market simply won't bare that. Joystick jockeys won't pay it.

stevew 01-31-2006 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groundhog
Out of the major sports, I can think of few that would be easier (note: this does still not mean easy) to have a fluid 2D display for than American football, except for of course baseball. Basketball/soccer/ice hockey/rugby etc. are all fluid sports that are, by and large, continous. With American football it's a down at a time, and the offense and defense are both coming out with set plays. Of course there's still a heck of a lot that goes on down on the field, but after the play is over, the whole thing resets and everyone is back in position.



Yeah, especially because of the set plays. Which is not to argue that other sports dont have them, but in football, you'd already have a basis for where the AI is planning to run/pass the ball, so that you could work the options off of that. And in many cases, 2-3 members of the defense wouldnt even be involved in the first level of the play, so you could probably mimic their AI without much intensive use.

gstelmack 01-31-2006 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabotai
I spend more time reading, designing and coding AI than I do any one other thing, so I know a bit about this too. And if the AI bots for Quake 3 were the pinnicle of his AI expertise, I hope he sticks to just the math and graphics engine programming (Carmack is a genius, and I do look up to him, but he's not going to be god at everything. For instance, he's just not that good of a game designer and he's even acknowledged that. And AI is more about design than it is technical.).


You ain't kidding. I call the original Quake AI a "PacMan" AI, because that's pretty much all the monsters did. It boiled down to:

Do I see the player? If so, attack!
Have I seen the player in the last 5 seconds? If so, run after him!
Otherwise, go back to stomping around in the room I was placed in.

That's pretty much it.

DaddyTorgo 01-31-2006 09:33 PM

you mean this game STILL hasn't been released?? I thought we were assuming it would be out weeks ago!!


QuikSand 01-31-2006 09:40 PM

According to the web site, its release will coincide nicely with last year's Superbowl. Fear not.

duckman 01-31-2006 09:42 PM

Best. Thread. Ever.

DaddyTorgo 01-31-2006 09:43 PM

oh i don't fear, because i have no intention of buying it. i fall in the same camp as SD really...if the game took this long to come out, i can't imagine the support for it is going to be where it needs to be for a first-gen game.

MizzouRah 01-31-2006 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand
According to the web site, its release will coincide nicely with last year's Superbowl. Fear not.


:D

Desmond 01-31-2006 10:29 PM

Give the dude some time god damnit, Matrix is still working on the box and manual.

Desmond 01-31-2006 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf
I've never seen so much talk about such a ham and egg project.


Ham and Eggs you say? Tell me more.

JPhillips 01-31-2006 10:40 PM

They should offer a pre-release discount like OOTP.

Groundhog 01-31-2006 10:41 PM

I finally went to the website just now and as soon as I saw the first screen shot I went "Oooooohhh...... THIS game, I remember looking at these screenshots 3 years ago and thinking that this had potential"...

Bonegavel 01-31-2006 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desmond
Ham and Eggs you say? Tell me more.

FUNEX?
IFX.
FUNEM?
IFM.
IFMNX.

sovereignstar 02-02-2006 01:14 PM

Quote:

We are in the home stretch, no question about it, but we are not going to make it before the weekend. Keep an eye out for a gone gold press release and it shouldn't be more than a week after that. Given the way things are going, I would say a February release is certain and likely to be by mid-February.

Regards,

- Erik

.

rkmsuf 02-02-2006 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desmond
Ham and Eggs you say? Tell me more.


Calling someone a ham and egger back in the day meant you were a street tough.

CraigSca 02-02-2006 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignstar
.


This is great news. I wonder if it comes with the 2002 rosters?

Bee 02-02-2006 02:43 PM

Taking a step into fantasy land for a moment and assuming the game is released mid-February...considering the game's been in development for 5-6 years (or whatever it is now), how smart is it to release it AFTER the football season is over?

SFL Cat 02-02-2006 02:50 PM

After 5-6 years, i would think just getting the thing out is something of a moral victory, whether football season is over or not.

bbor 02-02-2006 03:00 PM

I'm thinking of releasing a hockey sim....the day baseball season starts.

I am a marketing god.

bbor 02-02-2006 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFL Cat
After 5-6 years, i would think just getting the thing out is something of a morONISH victory, whether football season is over or not.


Fixed

:D

SFL Cat 02-02-2006 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbor
Fixed

:D


Well, yes...if it plays like something that should be running on a Commodore 64!
;)

Ragone 02-03-2006 04:57 AM

Duke Nukem Forever 2 could be out before this.. its still possible!

Wolfpack 02-03-2006 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragone
Duke Nukem Forever 2 could be out before this.. its still possible!


Maybe, but does Duke Nukem Forever 2 beat Duke Nukem Forever for release? :)

Bee 02-03-2006 10:00 AM

This game is going to be so bad it's not even funny...

I love this comment when asked if the game would have a college draft:

Quote:

All seasons must start with a draft from the free agent pool.

The draft is free agents.. not a true "college draft". The game doesn't know anything about colleges per se.


Sounds like the game doesn't know anything about pro football per se, either. :D

John Galt 02-03-2006 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bee
Sounds like the game doesn't know anything about pro football per se, either. :D


I know this is a horrible joke, but wouldn't it make sense to rename the game "Minimum Football."

Bee 02-03-2006 10:02 AM

And this when asked if there would be a demo of the game:

Quote:

I've given some thought to a demo and I'm not convinced there is a good way to do one. So much of the game is open source that it would be virtually impossible to have a demo that couldn't be modified into an almost full version of the game.

The only way around this is to actually branch from the full release code base and create a code stream for a demo with hard coded values for quarter time and and whatever other restrictions the demo would include. This introduces a bunch of logistical issues I really can't deal with at the moment. That and the fact that you would be restricting the user from experiencing the core feature of the game, which is its flexibility.

In other words...No demo. :D

Bee 02-03-2006 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Galt
I know this is a horrible joke, but wouldn't it make sense to rename the game "Minimum Football."


Or maybe just Minimum. ;)

sovereignstar 02-03-2006 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bee
In other words...No demo. :D


Someone is gonna have to be the guineau pig then. And someone we can trust. Just might have to hunt down Suicane for this job.

CraigSca 02-03-2006 10:58 AM

I'm glad the game will be flexible enough for me to play with 6 downs, 18 yards for a first down and 7 quarters like I've always wanted. When you have that, who needs something silly like a college football draft? Purely extraneous.

MalcPow 02-03-2006 11:34 AM

I made a suggestion about a year ago that number of appendages should be an editable feature in a player's profile. I was primarily interested in creating a historical league that would try to simulate the kind of success Lawrence Taylor might have had if he were equipped with three arms instead of two. The suggestion was met pretty warmly, so I was initially excited. Looking back though, I'm thinking this may have caused some difficult coding challenges and probably some serious box art issues. I can't help but think that I have contributed pretty significantly to the delay of this game. I guess I just wanted to apologize.

Ben E Lou 02-03-2006 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigSca
I'm glad the game will be flexible enough for me to play with 6 downs, 18 yards for a first down and 7 quarters like I've always wanted. When you have that, who needs something silly like a college football draft? Purely extraneous.

They spent six years coming up with this? Who is their lead programmer? Lucy Ewing?

gstelmack 02-03-2006 11:52 AM

Now, to be fair, they are trying to create a customizable football sim, and not all football leagues have drafts. For example, what about a college league?

Of course, since the delay has been to add career mode, I have no clue why they don't consider a draft part of career mode...

Ben E Lou 02-03-2006 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Apparently Post-Lobotomied Developer Of This Joke
All seasons must start with a draft from the free agent pool.

The draft is free agents.. not a true "college draft". The game doesn't know anything about colleges per se.

The more I think about this, the more incredulous I am. If there's already a "draft" in place, one would assume (yeah, I know...) that there is Draft AI in place. How long would it take to assign rookies to a college??? 15 minutes?

Oh wait, that must be it. Clearly he's concerned about the vital importance of getting his game out in a timely fashion.

Coffee Warlord 02-03-2006 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog
How long would it take to assign rookies to a college??? 15 minutes?


15 months. Why? Because the manual and the box would have to be completely redone were he to put such groundbreaking things as "college drafts" in.

Ben E Lou 02-03-2006 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack
Now, to be fair, they are trying to create a customizable football sim, and not all football leagues have drafts. For example, what about a college league.

A college league where you "draft" players onto your team rather than recruit them? That sounds like fun...

SFL Cat 02-03-2006 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog
A college league where you "draft" players onto your team rather than recruit them? That sounds like fun...


True! I can pull out my checkbook and build a football power at Temple University that current school officials can only dream about.
:cool:

Bee 02-03-2006 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFL Cat
True! I can pull out my checkbook and build a football power at Temple University that current school officials can only dream about.
:cool:


You think the game has financials, salaries, etc. I'm afraid to look it up myself. :D

Eaglesfan27 02-03-2006 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bee
You think the game has financials, salaries, etc. I'm afraid to look it up myself. :D


I don't believe it does, but I think there were database fields for modders to add those if they wanted to do so....

I know I won't be the guinea pig on this one :)

moriarty 02-03-2006 12:38 PM

Yeah, I want to know which one of you is going to actually buy this when it first comes out (if it comes out). I know it will be someone ... just not sure if you'll be willing to admit it.

gstelmack 02-03-2006 01:08 PM

I may take a look. IF (and that's a big IF) the sim engine is solid, I have no problem adding on the league management tools I want. One of my first game utilities was a draft-file generator / player aging manager for Head Coach Football on the Commodore Amiga, which also had absolutely no career mode support but had all the data files as an open text format...

rkmsuf 02-03-2006 01:12 PM

pigs flying or maximum football release


Too close to call!

yabanci 02-03-2006 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriarty
Yeah, I want to know which one of you is going to actually buy this when it first comes out (if it comes out). I know it will be someone ... just not sure if you'll be willing to admit it.


bubba wheels, and he'll give it glowing 10 star reviews, just to save face for pimping the game for the last 12 years.

duckman 02-03-2006 06:13 PM

I love this thread! One gem after another.

Ben E Lou 02-03-2006 06:18 PM

I just HAVE to know.

RE: Drafting in Maximum Football - 2/4/2006 12:19:11 AM
SkyDog
Matrix Recruit



Posts: 2
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Winter

All seasons must start with a draft from the free agent pool.

The draft is free agents.. not a true "college draft". The game doesn't know anything about colleges per se.
You have GOT to be kidding me. A "career" mode in a football game without a college draft, and (it would certainly appear) no bidding for free agents? Please elucidate as to your thinking on this decision.

(in reply to David Winter)

Post #: 5
Page: [1]

JeeberD 02-03-2006 06:36 PM

Ooh! Shit just got serious now!

Icy 02-03-2006 07:05 PM

No draft? what has the career mode then? I hope that at least the games are played with a ball.

If i had any doubt about purchasing it all them are gone now.

st.cronin 02-03-2006 07:17 PM

Who's going to commish the fofc multiplayer league?

dervack 02-03-2006 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog
I just HAVE to know.

RE: Drafting in Maximum Football - 2/4/2006 12:19:11 AM
SkyDog
Matrix Recruit



Posts: 2
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Winter

All seasons must start with a draft from the free agent pool.

The draft is free agents.. not a true "college draft". The game doesn't know anything about colleges per se.
You have GOT to be kidding me. A "career" mode in a football game without a college draft, and (it would certainly appear) no bidding for free agents? Please elucidate as to your thinking on this decision.

(in reply to David Winter)

Post #: 5
Page: [1]

Oh man. His reply to this is just priceless. Why does one need a college draft? The way he makes it sound, is that there is a career mode, but no aging modifier therefore no players retiring, therefore no need for college players. WTF?

sovereignstar 02-03-2006 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin
Who's going to commish the fofc multiplayer league?


Multiplayer? Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Priorities in order are:

Box art
Draft
Free Agency
Multiplayer

DaddyTorgo 02-03-2006 07:20 PM

post the reply dervack? i don't wanna go looking for it

sovereignstar 02-03-2006 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dervack
Oh man. His reply to this is just priceless. Why does one need a college draft? The way he makes it sound, is that there is a career mode, but no aging modifier therefore no players retiring, therefore no need for college players. WTF?


Oh boy. Someone just get it over with and link him to this thread so this party can really get started.

Neuqua 02-03-2006 07:21 PM

Quote:

A career mode has nothing to do with what sort of draft you have. You only need the ability to replace lost players via a draft of a collection of players. Whether or not they're from college means nothing. College is just a pool of free agents that have no pro experience.

His response.

dervack 02-03-2006 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Winters
A career mode has nothing to do with what sort of draft you have. You only need the ability to replace lost players via a draft of a collection of players. Whether or not they're from college means nothing. College is just a pool of free agents that have no pro experience.

Besides, the game lets you create college and highschool (and pee wee for that matter) leagues.. where would a "college draft" fit in?

.

yabanci 02-03-2006 07:23 PM

At least the future looks bright:

Quote:

What are the plans for the future?

Eventually the goal is to approach one of the many sports networks for sponsorship. This will provide some capital to add to the development staff and make overall improvements to the game. Would this include a professional license? That is not known. Any pro league that would sign on would have to agree to keep the customizable rules system in place. It is hard to imagine the CFL licensing a game product that allowed playing the game with 4 downs.

Maximum-Football is going to be the flagship in a line of sports titles for the PC. All bearing the Maximum mark. In the next year you will see Maximum-Hockey and Maximum-Lacrosse. In the distant future I hope to also have Maximum-Baseball.

But for now, Maximum-Football is king.

DaddyTorgo 02-03-2006 07:23 PM

in some sense I suppose that makes sense. i mean i can understand where he's coming from with that answer, in terms of maximum customizability, but it certainly doesn't make the game appealing.

st.cronin 02-03-2006 07:24 PM

I know what those words mean, but that response makes no sense.

sovereignstar 02-03-2006 07:28 PM

In all seriousness, what are guys actually going to do with this game?

DaddyTorgo 02-03-2006 07:34 PM

not buy it

QuikSand 02-03-2006 07:48 PM

I love this thread.

Bee 02-03-2006 08:11 PM

Since I didn't understand what the hell he was getting at with his response to SkyDog's post, I posted this on their forums:

Quote:

So you didn't want to do a "college draft" because it doesn't fit in with a league simulating, for example, college football ...but you still have a "draft of a collection of players" just without the ability to associate them to some previous school, correct? Does that really simulate college recruiting better than a "college draft" where the school names would be editable? Am I missing something here because that makes absolutely no sense to me.

Also, what about the free agency bidding question raised by SkyDog, is his assumption accurate?

KWhit 02-03-2006 08:12 PM

Just went to the website. Wow...

News: July 12, 2001
  • The Maximum-Football play editor and playbook editor beta 1 will be released for public use/testing in the next short while.
  • The player model has been completed and the uniform pattern has been passed to artists for creation of uniform sets. Screen shots of the player will be added once the first uniforms have been created.
  • The database engine is nearing completion.
  • The 3D engine issues have been worked out. The engine now supports all the functions required and is currently undergoing optimization. Please note: Due to our selection of engine, this game will require a modern 3D card such as the ATI Radeon or GeForce2 cards. Older cards such as the Voodoo4 and below series may not play the game properly due to their use of 3Dfx chipsets.
  • Expect to see the first serious game screens in the coming weeks.

sovereignstar 02-03-2006 08:17 PM

To expand on my question above a little:

We've got: FOF/TPF, Action PC!, Sierra's FBPRO, Football Mogul, and Madden

Does this game offer ANYTHING else new besides the rules customization?

astrosfan64 02-03-2006 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignstar
In all seriousness, what are guys actually going to do with this game?


Good question. Head to Head online play isn't included. That is the biggest reason, I would want to play this game. Assuming it is not crap and it is a good simmulation. I was hoping to recapture some the feel of the FBPro online leagues. With no head to head, it isn't going to be possible.

Ben E Lou 02-03-2006 09:17 PM

He answered you, Bee, and it would appear from his answer that he sees no difference between a draft and free agency. "There simply needed to be a way to fill empty spots on a roster at the beginning of every season."

Ben E Lou 02-03-2006 09:19 PM

Dola:

Seriously, they delayed the game by a YEAR to add a career mode that offers.....what?

sovereignstar 02-03-2006 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog
Dola:

Seriously, they delayed the game by a YEAR to add a career mode that offers.....what?


Experience + 1 ??? I haven't been able to find what else. Sounds like nothing else is going to be automated.

sabotai 02-03-2006 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog
Dola:

Seriously, they delayed the game by a YEAR to add a career mode that offers.....what?

Hey now, come on. As a programmer, I feel the need to step in here and say something...

It takes a LONG time to write out and test:

m_GameFile->SetYear(CurrentYear + 1);
m_GameFile->SaveFile();

Ok. Now leave the guy alone.

;)

Bee 02-03-2006 09:26 PM

It sounds like "career play" basically means you can play more than one season. And that's all it seems to mean...

I'm sure someone with plenty of time on their hands could build a game around this somehow with a bunch of mods for taking care of all the real career stuff, but seriously if someone is going to put forth that much effort they should just design their own game and sell it.

IwasHere 02-03-2006 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignstar
Someone is gonna have to be the guineau pig then.


Lets get WrongWay to do it, he hates everything! :D


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