When Spike gets tossed for arguing with Reggie let me know.

Its a SportsCenter highlight when Jack Nicholson gets in a refs face.

I think that seating in the NBA needs to be redone primarily. It is just outrageous that players should be physically assaulted(that is what this was) by fans. Now, the player should be able to restrain his emotion, but still, the seats are just too close, and it is too easy to touch or attack a player. No other professional sports league has the same seating arrangement without protection of some kind for the players. Just think what football players would do to fans 3 feet from them trhowing beer on em.

Exactly. They aren't going to ban Jack. puhh-lease.

This fan stuff is lip service.

The Pacers should just collectively not play until a more reasonable punishment is assessed.

Also, im wondering if Indy is allowed to have 12 players on their active roster, and these 3 on the "injured/inactive" list, or if they are screwed with basically only being able to use 9 players for the next 24 games. I think that they have to leave these guys on the active roster, so they are pretty screwed.

Anyone want to wager that the NBA and the networks who are so outraged at this incident somehow end up showcasing every re-match between these two teams? If they really wanted to show that they were digusted how about not showing the next Pistons-Pacers game? It's like John Saunders who is so upset by the fight and the little black kid crying that his network has shown a continuous feed of the fight from every possible angle for the past 48 hours.

I think the NBA deserves a rolleyes for this... :rolleyes:

Any player hit with a long-term suspension, according to league rules, can be placed on the suspended list by their team, Stein reports.


The pacers can sign players to league-minimum contracts or use any salary-cap exceptions they have left to fill their roster vacancies.

Bingo, bingo, bingo. Well said and I DO expect fans to try this again because they TOTALLY won. No fan is going to get more than a slap on the wrist for any of this (especially since the chair-thrower is off-camera) and I'm sorry but a lifetime ban from attending NBA games is laughable. Essentially punishing them by forcing them to keep their money. Simply not even close to enough punishment.

Okay, that is a little bit better. At least they can fill out their roster. Everyone pick up Fred Jones in fantasy basketball. He is gonna have to have a monster year now. He is like the only decent healthy scorer left in Indy.

Yeah, it's actually gonna be really interesting to see how Indy does the next 25-30 games. Without their top 3 scorers, it's gonna be tough, but if they can hang in there, I think they can still make the playoffs. Artest isn't that important, even though the three together are.

I suppose I won't have to hear any more Peja-for-Artest trade rumours around here anymore...

Exactly- its okay to abuse people as long as they make more money than you.

Better yet, make sure it's your arch rival and do EVERYTHING in your power to start the riot. You'll get six games. Any player on the opposing team who happens to get involved in the riot will be gone at least 25 and some will be gone for the year.

I think this is one of the most unjust things I've seen in a long time.

FWIW, the NBA does get what it wants. The best team in the East (and they were the best last year and would have beat Detroit had they been healthy) is no longer the best team in the East. It set thing up wonderfully for Shaq and Miami to have free reign once the playoffs start.

The next episode on the History Channel's Conspiracy?

Nah, no conspiracy. Stern actually thinks he made the right call here. But I think he got it wrong and I think there will be more incidents because of this action, not less.

Hell, why should a home team bother having any security now? Hell, I'd encourage my fans to be jack asses and throw things. Do whatever you can to incite the opposing players. Do everything short of smacking them upside the head with a 2x4, because it's going to HELP your team if one of the players decides he doesn't have to take it.

I just can't believe the Wallace suspension. He gets six games for inciting this entire thing and throwing objects at motionless players. What a sad situation.

Don't worry Miami, if the two teams face off, I'll actually cheer for Shaq. I won't be able to stomach cheering for Detroit for awhile and my respect for Ben was lost when he made his "it's all HIS fault" routine.

An all-star/defensive player of the year isn't that important?

Hey Troy, lemme throw you a clue.

The Pacers have enough talent to win 45-50 games without Artest. Oneal being gone for the next 25 games is a lot worse for them than losing Artest.

Actually I agree with you TroyF. I was just trying to beat someone to the punch of saying that this is part of the NBA's "pattern of conspiracies". I don't think that we will see severe criminal penalties given to the fans involved. Fans will continue to make an ass of themselves and attempt to bait or attack players.

Think about this....FAN LOCKOUT.

It will happen if another incident like this happens again... I do not mean for the NBA, but between the teams the incident occured.

It has happened in High School and College ball, we have seen it in Soccer as well.

If your fans cannot behave, and you cannot control them, then you will lose out on the revenue and lose that home court advantage.

Granted the this sucked, but Artest has some serious anger issues he needs to deal with...and I think the season suspenion might help him. O'Neal was an idiot for following.

As for Wallace getting 6 games....fair and deserved, he pushed Artest for a what he felt was a hard and flagrant foul and started the ruckus. Artest was then pissed due to the glass of beer being thrown on him.

Wallace wasn't punching fans. Artest and O'neal were dropping them everywhere. I do have to admit, it was pretty crazy watching the fans on the floor challange them both, and then they go down like a rock...but still, keep the emotion in check...and you are there for the next game...blow up like a stick of dynamite, and you are gone for the season..

Honestly, I like the Pacers, but I have grown to hate Artest.

Ben Wallace's plot to win back the Defensive Player of the Year award is complete.

Maybe the Pistons should have to play a few home games in Marquette.

Hey Jeff, takeyour biased opinion and go get yourself a clue, OK?

I personally always like to read "INDalltheway" as "INthehallway".

Troy, the effects of the penalties are severe. But facts are facts, Artest went into the stands and assaulted an innocent man. Jackson did the same. O'Neil did the same. There's no debating this.

You can complain about Ben Wallace all you want, but facts are facts. He didn't throw a punch AT A FAN IN THE STANDS. That was all Artest and Jackson. All 3 of them will be lucky if they don't end up in jail, never mind suspended.

Everyone will appeal and I think we'll see the suspensions cut in half, which would make it about right. That is, until the inevitable trials and lawsuits.

Until you pointed it out, I always assumed it was the latter, and didn't even GET the former meaning...

I think the penalties are excessive, but then, I've never really been all that impressed with the NBA or its leadership. I think it's nothing but a big circus and the players get railroaded by owners who basically treat them one step above chattel. Highly-paid chattel, but still.

If they can pay out those contracts, surely they're not starving themselves are they? It's too bad they're not smart enough to get together and form their own league.

::feels the fire at his back::

The union will file a grievance (well a few of them actually). The union has a duty of fair represenation that is owed to its members. If the union doesn't file a grievance the player has the right to name both the union and the NBA as defendants and file in federal district court. Therefore, it is in the best interest of both the NBA and the players union to file those grievances and have it out in front of an arbitrator (much quicker and less costly resolution). The union may not believe in the argument they make (I worked for a union and quite often didn't believe in the argument I was making, but it was the right thing to do for the above reasons, no one, employer or union, likes to end up in court).

As far as the penalties, I think when viewing this as an employment situation, its important to distinguish at-work behavior from away-from work behavior. There is a certain expectation of privacy regarding your behavior at home, and it is always a little touchy trying to negotiate (in a CBA agreement or before a mediator) what type of punishment is appropriate.

I just saw the whole thing right now again. Wallace should have gotten more, considering the punishment the other players got. Wallace didn't just push away Artest. He shoved him hard in the face, and then continued to go after him as people tried to separate them and Artest was walking away.

It just seems like such a victory for Detroit. I know the Pacers players attacked fans, but for their whole season to basically be ruined because of what Wallace started? It just doesn't seem fair.

I'm a huge Pacer fan! Hence the name Miller Time (not because of the beer)
I just got home from the Grey Cup and heard the news. It absolutely kills me!! I feel really bad for Reggie because I think Indy had a legit shot at winning a ring this year (I do say that every year though :) But this looks like it could be his last year.

Although, I think the suspension was way too stiff, I understand where Stern is coming from. I just hope the Pacers can get healthy and hopefully try and make the playoffs. (It makes me sick just typing that)

Can Ron Artest play in the playoffs?

No

Maybe so Black. . . but I still disagree and think Wallace deserves a much longer suspension. I think I was very respectful of the Pistons and their fans through all of my posts on the subject as well. I don't need any of them to tell me to get a clue, when my position is well thought out and not emotional.

I can see your point, but I firmly believe Wallace and his actions were the main cause of the entire fiasco. And I still do not believe it was a coincedence that the first object was thrown by a fan directly after Wallace threw his object at him.

I got the impression from listening to Stern that Artest will probably have to go through some sort appeal process before coming back to the league. I don't think it will be just as simple as being in the lineup opening night 2005

Right, theres no biased opinion coming from Troy eithier.

In the Premiere League soccer thread there is a story about a soccer club whose fans hit a referee in the head with I believe a beer bottle, but in any case an object thrown from the stands. This was apparently a second offense, and the league associaton awarded the visiting team a three nil victory, and here is the just punishment part. They required the home club to play their next two matches in front of an empty stadium. It punishes the club and the fans.

As for this case. I have no trouble with the punishments handed down to the players in this case. If you physically assault or actually batter a fan, then you should face some damn serious consequences. A rest of the season ban, doesn't seem extreme to me. Then again I didn't mind the Latrell Spreewell ban either. Bad decisions of this level require severe consequences. I feel bad for the Pacers, and think the club is getting screwed over by the penalty assessed to it's players. I still think the penalties are appropriate. I do think Detroit should suffer some consequences for this as well. I'm just not sure how you quantify it.

Fine the team for the amount of their gate receipts for the game.



And obviously any fan who is identified as being involved - even if it is "just" throwing drinks (on the way to the tunnel) should have their tickets revoked. Ok, doesn't hurt the team and has probably been mentioned, but I'll endorse it again.

Rematch Christmas Day!

Will this survive long enough to over shadow Shaq vs Kobe I?

I'd argue the opposite -- it's not that this penalty is too harsh, but the other penalties are too light.

Hate to break it to NBA fans, but a lot of sports fans who might be interested in the NBA think it nothing more than a bunch of stoned thugs and gangsters who can't play within a team structure.

If the NBA wants to thrive or even survive, they need to teach these guys that they can't be stoned and act like thugs all the time. Personally, it would make a lot more sense to me if the owners in the league would say, "Gee, maybe I shouldn't give millions of dollars to a bunch of stoners and mentally unbalanced, violent people." Since they won't Stern should get tough.

I don't feel sorry for Indiana. This was Ron Artest's fault. There is no way to defend him. He got hit with a beer. If you're at a bar and somebody throws a beer at you and you start punching everybody in sight, you're going to jail. No different at an NBA game. Artest should know that taking care of the guy throwing the beer is a job for the police, not him. You take the law into your own hands, you're going to get smacked down.

Why I don't feel sorry for Indiana is that they knew Artest was a violent, unbalanced character from the get go. They looked the other way because he played great defense. You can't complain about getting burned when you play with fire.

OK Jeff, ya got me.

I mean, I'm so biased against the Pistons it'll make you sick. Wallace wasn't one of my favorite players before this started and I can't stand Chauncey Billups because he led Colorado to an NCAA tournament win. And everyone knows how much I hate Colorado. I also can't stand all Detroit fans. It's the Avalanche/Red Wing thing I guess. Even though I might be the only Ave fan in the country who likes the Red Wings, but I digress.

You are right. It's not that I've watched the replay of the event and came to a conclusion based on what I truly feel. It's that I'm a biased bastard who just wants Detroit to lose as many games as possible.

Your powers of awareness are incredible.

Aha! I didn't know this. It's obvious what happened here then. Stern had a plant in the crowd (the guy who threw the first bottle). Imagine the ratings on Christmas day now? Shaq vs Kobe and the Pistons/Pacers rematch!

:D

I think putting the blame on Ben Wallace is way off the mark. Sure, he overreacted. But Artest didn't have to foul him, either. In any case, the on-court brawl was no worse than what happens many times a season in all of the team sports. The fan who threw the beer and Artest are the two guys who escalated an incident that was just about over on the court.

Yours are truly more incredible...

It was Ben Wallace of course! He made artest go lie down on the scorers table like a weirdo, HE MADE Artest rush up 6 rows and attack the WRONG GUY. HE MADE Artest throw two punches at a guy who didnt have his hands up at all. HE MADE artest jaunt the fans continuously of course.

I am awe of you Troy!!!

Oh, how I have missed TroyF and his whacked out thoughts. Glad to see you back.

If I was the commish, Artest would never play in the NBA again. But then I'm a hard ass. :)

I think Wallace should get more of a suspension, but I think the others were fair. You cannot go into the stands and assault a fan. Complain to security and have the offending fans removed.

I also think Artest and Oneal and the fans involved should get some jail time out of the deal. DUI convictions or spousal abuse should result in automatic season-long suspsensions without pay.

I'm now considering going to see the Cavs play the Jazz when Carlos Loozer comes back to town. Hopefully I can hit the fuckhead with a beer in the forehead, and he will come into the stands to charge my ass. Then again, he isnt unbalanced mentally like Artest. Loozer is just a lying sack of dog shit.

was Artest's foul on Wallace called a flagrant? If so, he needs to get some additional suspension.

I will believe the fans will get jail time when they closed the jail door on them. Until then.....Let the beer and the batteries flow

Nope.

No, he wasn't. And, I don't think it was a flagrant foul. Not needed, possibly, but a hard foul, not really.

I remember seeing Jordan fouled a lot harder by Detroit when the Jordan rules were in effect. I've also seen Artest foul harder.

I wonder if Wallace's reaction had a lot to do with the fact that they were getting blown out and it was a tough night. I didn't see the whole game, just the fight.

So, um, what did this sentence look like BEFORE you edited it?

True, but ...
 

Yes, Wallace did shove Artest and it was a pretty rough shove. However, how many times in any sport have we seen activity like this go down? Not to mention I've never heard of anybody getting suspended or fined extra because they continued to go after the player they were pissed at but couldn't reach them.

What Wallace did happens a lot in every sport, not just the NBA and that alone does not make him a horrible person or NBA player, if that were true I'd hate a LOT of players in every sport, not just Wallace. I don't feel bad for Artest simply because he had no problem getting himself seperated from Ben Wallace when Wallace wanted after him, but the minute a 5'10" white dude chucks a cup of beer at him, he's ready to chuck knuckles. Plus, the guy's a job anyway, get him out of the NBA, you can't hide Artest's track record for trouble. Good call Stern.

Gee, you're right. Again, I haven't explained why I feel Wallace shouldn't get a longer suspension, did I?

I'm also the only one in the thread with a "whacked out" opinion because I feel Wallace got off too lightly in this whole deal.

And what an incredibly hard foul. . . I mean he even grazed his arm and all. Screw it, from now on every player who thinks he's been fouled hard has the right to throw a fit on the court for ten minutes, make repeated efforts to attack a player who is walking away from the confrontation, and then throw things at him because he's pissed he doesn't fight.

Artest is an F'n schmuck, but that doesn't mean Wallace should simply skate from this as easily as he has. I guess that opinion makes me an idiot or
"whacked out"

I also like how I was respectful of everyone here and then I get two people throwing insults my way because they disagree with my opinion. (edit. . .I should have stopped here. I like Ksyrup and Jeff, even if they hate my guts. It's just too bad my opinion can't be respected. Oh well, we don't get everything we want.)

Wallace should've just taken the foul and his freethrows like a man. That little whiney macho bitch had to shove Artest and rile up the fucking crowd. And he had to continue to charge into Artest when it was clear that Artest was backing off and refused to retaliate physically.

And the fucktard who threw the cup should've been arrested for assault. Players expect to get booed and verbally abused, but NEVER physically assaulted with foreign objects in the court. Who knows what else the fan couldhave thrown at Artest?

Artest's reputation precedes him, that's why the punishment's so harsh. He probably deserves the same suspension as Stephen Jackson. Granted he's a loose nut and he's probably got a gagillion voices talking inside that screwed up head of his.

Everyone says that this is bad publicity for the the NBA, but I actually think this was sort of good. Now everyone's going to be waiting for the next big fight to happen (not soon... everyone's shitting their pants over the recent suspensions).

I guess my thought that Artest/VC would get dealt for each other this year is now in the drain.

Wow what really shocks me is with a Title like "FUCK THE NBA" this thread hasn't been locked and anyone thrown in the penalty box.

Fair enough and well said.

I agree with most of what you said, but I'd like to take issues with a couple of points.

1. If the fan who threw the cup is found, he will be very likely be charged. There's no excuse for throwing the cup of beer.

2. Artest did "back off". But I also saw him really hamming up the situation on the scorer's table. There's no doubt he was egging Wallace on. He really inflamed the situation and when someone threw that cup of beer, Artest blew a fuse and charged into the stands like a madman.

Stupid Raptors would still probably do a trade like this.

Actually, I'd just like to note Ohio State kicked both of their asses this year.

Carry on.

Brad, Brad, Brad...you've been around long enough to know that we haven't compleated that quest yet. But someday, we'll make it. Someday.

I blame Skydog and his undies. That traumatized us forever. You just don't recover from something like that.

I just saw now the other suspensions... how did Reggie Miller get 1 game? Did I miss him throwing a punch in his suit? I thought he was trying to hold people back. :)

He left the bench. Stupid since he was trying to be a peace maker...

They know who he is, but he wasn't home today. :) He also has an interesting past: http://www.clickondetroit.com/sports...54/detail.html

The county prosecutor today said that they are looking at charging numerous fans with various misdemeanors. The only crime so far that would warrant a felony was the chair throwing. I don't think they have good video on that though. They said they still have a ton of video to go over though.