Yeah. Make them watch him host Dream Job.

EXTRA

I think that is a horrible idea, by the way. Whats to stop guys from going into the crowd whenever something happens and taking business into their own hands. Talk about HORRIBLE precident.

Now THERE'S a punishment :D

I see this country is still naive

Some different clips being shown now on ESPNews, and it's getting tough for me to keep things in chronological order.

I'm pretty solid on the Artest foul then Wallace shove then Artest on the scorer's table then beer on Artest ... and from the repeated clips, it looks like the next thing is Artest & Jackson in the stands.

What I'm not clear about is a set of scenes that happened on the court, best I can tell they happened sometime after the stuff in the stands. It looked like Artest & a fan, and Jermaine O'Neal (?) with what looked like a slide tackle on somebody in/near that melee. When did all this stuff happen? After players came back out of the stands? Or before?

I think some people got up because the Pacers charged into the stands. This is understandable that if you're in the front you have to be able to move and get out of the way. But now you're on the court. They kept jabbing on the court, and they got attacked. It's within reason to assume they're idiots for being on there. Security was no where to be seen as this unfolded, so random fans are on the court. I think this is what caused the court malay.

The guy Jackson hit in the stands threw a beer right in Artest's face! That was pretty shitty. The problem I have with the situation is Wallace attacking Artest in the neck, and face area. That is punk-like. He didn't even fight back, he was away from the conflict the best he could. I also noticed that just after Wallace threw what he threw at Artest, the fan threw the beer. 20+ games is just stupid, and I disagree with you guys that think Artest and Jackson should be gone that long. Self defense, even though it was taken too far, it was still self defense.

I believe that's what we've come to -- fans have crossed a line that should never be crossed. And I don't believe we should ask, not for one minute, athletes no matter how much they make nor how jealous the average schmuck is of that, to simply be targets. And if there's not something done to bring the fans back in line p.d.q., we're only going to see it get worse.

There's no shortage of asshole athletes, but their numbers pale in comparison to the number of idiot fans I've encountered over the years.

Also, Mike Tirico makes a great point -- let's bring it down to real life, if somebody throws a beer on you as you're walking through Times Square, how are you going to react?

But thats the thing. Artest, from accounts of people there, hit the wrong guy. So if this is true, how can you justify it?

You probably will end up going to jail, along with the guy throwing the beer on you. I understand the want to get back at the guy, but it doesn't give you a free pass to do what you want.

Without seeing all the footage from all the angles, I sure wouldn't want to swear to this but ... there looked like a good number of security personnel (guys in blue jackets?) in various places in the stands (because of the melee there). Slow to get there perhaps, but start showing up late in the sequence. If that's the case though, they really can't be in two places at the same time, so there's probably no way they could keep fans off the court moments later.

Okay, so when Joe Blow fan takes off his chains or has his rings on and decides he'll start shit with someone so they can come in the stands and he can just pummel them like a pussy, he won't be held accountable because hes defending himself?

doesn't mean he has to be the guy who started it, but he surely can say he was defending himself from a crazed 6'7, 250 lbs guy bumrushing into the crowd.

How do you know that guy wasnt calling him a "fucking n*gger" or some shit like that. The dude that ended up getting attacked was definately appearing to be talking some shit.

Im disgusted by the fans. Totally classless on their part. I cant believe they would do such a thing. The death of fan/player interaction.

Having been to the Palace numerous times, I can honestly say security is good in the upper rows, but as you get lower, they normally float around the exits/entrances to stop people from getting into someone elses seat. But really, this is something that you can ever expect will happen, and now that it did, it'll be rectified.

though you would've thought that after the Malone incident in the Finals they'd have knew something might've happened.

I won't even dignify pooryorick's twaddle except to say.

Do you think I LIKE being remembered on this board as the guy who went spazzoid over the Sox losing in Game 7 and did physical damage to myself, punching a tree in rage?

the rest of the bullshit.. don't know what you're smoking, man, but do you know that it's likely a controlled substance?

You can't. You get hit with a liquid substance? Unless it's Peter North creating the shower, if you are making millions, then you let the local law authorities handle it. You're heading to the showers in the next couple of minutes anyway. Artest is already on the hot seat for asking for time off to promote a rap album. It appears he'll have all the time he wants after this.

He was hit with a beer. Big whoop. I've never known a beer to draw blood.

I played hockey with a black kid and I heard it all the time. But you know what, so had he. Sadly, he even told me he couldn't do anything about it and just ignored it. It happens everywhere he said, and at first he'd react but he kept getting penalized.

Do I agree with it? Absolutely not.
Does it happen all the time? Absolutely.

Your mama jokes? If only they were that tame.

I've seen things like: 1 guy tossing an individual kernal of popcorn every 10 seconds or so at a player.

Another guy obviously drunk calling my black teammate a f'n n***er every chance he could. Hell screaming it would be more accurate.

Another guy shooting water through his teeth at the players and coaches.

A kid (probably 12 or so) throwing a loose ball that got into the second row as hard as he could at a teammate sitting on the bench with his back to him and hitting him in the neck/lower head.

Having water/beer/other liquid thrown at us while entering/leaving the court. Profanity tirades. You name it.

And that was just Indiana HIGH SCHOOL basketball 10 years ago. I'm sure these kinds of things happen in the NBA to visiting teams.

In the NFL, there's generally (except for the end zones in some places) a good bit of distance to cover between fans & players.
In MLB, there's both distance & some physical restraints (foul screen, walls, dugout roofs, etc)
In the NHL, there's quite a bit of glass/plexiglass.
In the NBA, there's ... well, umm ...

I'm really surprised how much of my thoughts are being echoed in near real-time by the crew on ESPN-- while I'm typing this, they cover the need
to move the f'n fans back from the players.

I stand corrected, it was O'Neil who got his ass whipped by the short white fat guy. Artest has a law suit coming.

ESPN - "Blame this one on the fans"

lmao. Peter North line. Classic.

You punched a tree after Boone went yard last year? That is funny as hell.

Exactly why you can't allow the athletes to go into the stands - its been reported locally and by Jim Gray (not that he's all that credible) that Artest did hit the wrong guy - the guy on the floor I really have no problem with getting punched by Artest and then O'Neal because he had no place on the floor but there is no reason players should be in the stands and the NBA needs to come down hard on Artest and Jackson for doing so. The fans should be in the stands, the players on the court and neither one has any business going any place else.

IF you say that its ok for the player to go into the stands to punch someone you are setting a very dangerous precedent. The fans are dead wrong for throwing anything and even more so for being on the court but you cannot let the players be the ones taking the law into their own hands - thats the job for arena security and police.

See I agree with you there. The NBA needs to do something, because these people are way too close.

Very interesting ... Jim Grey noting that at least one or two of the fans involved as combatants were wearing credentials.

Perhaps he was handing out copies of his rap album?

(I'm just a few posts in when I post this, so I figure someone already kicked this one through the goalposts before me ;) )

CR

Wow, I didn't see the chair thrown at J. O'Neil until just now...

Yup.

But this same thing happened, what, two years ago in Portland? Obviously the league didn't learn their lesson then.

Talking shit to someone does not give them the right to attack you. If the fan Artest went after is the wrong one, he should be put in jail.

Yup. Right after the homer, I stormed out of the house, drove a while, got out, and blew off steam by punching a tree. You can look the threads in question up.

At least I turned down my fanaticism of sports after that, (trust me, splinters in the hand for weeks is a good reminder).

Who knows, if it wasn't for that, I might be an idiot fan myself.. or I probably already was an idiot fan.

In English soccer, Eric Cantona got a pretty severe fine for going into the stands and doing his "kung fu kick" on a fan that was giving him grief.

I dunno why that ought to matter. They're regular people, just like NBA players.

Fozz, it's cool. When Michigan was losing to MSU badly a few weeks back broke a sega genises controller. Thankfully I never used it. Soon after I found a hacky sack that has relieved much anger.

And I'm convinced that if the focus is on punishing the players then it's just a matter of time, a short time, before we get an American version of the Steffi Graf incident.

And if nobody else -- not the leagues, not the teams, not the arenas, nobody period -- is willing or able to protect them, then they don't have much choice but to defend themselves.

JIMGA's right on the money here. Being a drunken idiot who decides to make one's self part of the action doesnt entitle you to some protection from enraging people - the classless fans deserve what they get.

Jim Grey carries absolutely zero credibility with me, after his Pete Rose stunt at the All Star game a couple of years ago. He could have been the announcer at the Red Sox World Series sweep, and I would have waited for independant confirmation.

This reminds me of a fight at my high school basketball game. It was between two rival teams and had just about everything that went on tonight, minus the beer. I think there was something like 100 suspensions from that one incident.

Thanks DeToxRoxDVHStyle, but it's a good reminder that I scared the crap out of a bunch of folks (including my parents) when I stormed out of the house, without saying a word, and just went peeling out.

As I keep saying, there's a line between fan and fanatic, and you don't know which side you're on until you're way over the line.

on fire.

Well, among other things, it raises serious questions about the people that are being credentialed. (The most notable one is the large guy in the gray sweatshirt that sucker punches Artest near the aisle)

edit to correct: The victim of the sucker punch was Jones, not Artest.

Man, and i dont mean to laugh, but that is funny as hell. I remember being pretty darn pissed when Mitch Williams served cheese up to Joe Carter in the World Series, but i didnt hit a tree. I guess i just knew when Williams came in that the game was over. Thanks for the laugh tho, its been a pretty hard day.

But they will not do the same becuase beer makes $$$$

Dont you mean Monica Seles?

LOL, I don't believe I remember any suspensions, but HS basketball games are by far the most violent & most dangerous sports incidents I've ever personally been around.

Of course, most of those involved referees ;)

Eh, it's late. And I ain't exactly the world's biggest tennis fan.

I'm glad my stupidity amuses you :) :D

credientaled people are on football sidelines all the time. whats not to stop them from running onto the field?

so why are they there? probably the same reason that guy was at the piston game, you don't expect this to happen.

Oh spare me- your letting your disdain for NBA players get in the way of your judgement. Tell you what Gary- let me come to where you work coding TPB 2005, throw beer on you, and scream bloody murder when you get up to do something about it. Why the hell does their salary not entitle them to human emotions ? Is he supposed not to get angry because he makes more money than you ?

That is what the police are for JIMGA - dude gets drunk and idiotic and lobs a beer at a player the police arrest him and take him down to the pokey - end of situation. Idiot player charges into the stands and starts swinging and now the problem is magnified 100 times.

What did Artest have to defend himself from? What Wallace did to him was worse than getting hit by a plastic cup of beer yet he didn't have any desire to fight Ben. One problem with spectator sports is that the participants are NEVER truly safe from a spectator that wishes to cause them harm. Justifying players going into the crowd to fight spectators will not change the fact that some day a fan could cause great bodily harm to a player - it only endangers the fans who have and want nothing to do with an altercation.

your only stupidity was supporting the bosox. tigers in 05. :)

Now that we got ours, I wouldn't be so pissed at that ;) (of course I want a repeat)

Tell mre about it. We had a donkey basketball game my senior year. We were down by one with 10 seconds left. Jennie McGrath threw an inbounds pass to me, which went over my head. I held on to the reins, got the ball, climbed on top of my poor donkey, and made a slam Dominique would have been proud of to win the game.

But no, the Ass Owners said I let go of the reins to get the ball, thereby negating my basket.

If someone would have thrown a beer on me at that point, I definitely would have gone Artest on them.

Whoa there - I have no disdain for most NBA players - I actually come to their defense more often than not - and their salary has nothing to do with entitling them to human emotions. They can have all the emotions they want - acting on them is different. If you come and throw a beer on me it does not give me the right to get up and assault you. Sure I may want to and sure I may go ahead and punch you but that doesn't make it right or legal to do so.

There is a MAJOR difference between feeling like doing something and actually doing it. That is why we have law enforcement - to arrest the idiot throwing the beer. It is the players job to play basketball - not to brawl with fans.

Clearly, those closest to the situation (the players) don't have a whole lot of confidence in the designated authorities willingness, ability, or capability, of doing that. And I can't really say that I blame them, especially not when they're on the road -- hell, I've seen high school kids who had to be protected by their own county deputies for road games because no one (and I do mean NO one) felt local (i.e. the opponent's county) authorities would perform their duties.


And that's something that needs to be addressed. Perhaps not to the point of perfection, there's nearly always a way if someone is determined enough, but the current state of on-field security is a tragedy waiting to happen.

We always got on the refs but they were not invovled in this one. I think it was at halftime when one of the fans from our rivals put their logo on the court. One of our basketball players just had to be walking by and clocked himf for it. All hell broke lose then. It was funny watching massive girl fights but the guy fights were really serious. It took about 15 minutes to get it all settled. It would have helped if they would have had soem male teachers on duty. The female techaersjust had to wait for the cops to show up which took them like 10 minutes to get into riot gear. They actaully had reinforcments from the Memphis PD who were use to that kind of crap and they didn't play :D

And when the law enforcement failed here, they have every right to defend themselves against dumbass fans who percieve that they are above reproach. If I keep throwing beer at you and no is doing a thing, should you stop me or not ? If you called a sand n***er, I'd punch you- at some point, you deserve it for your stupidity. Legality is usually the safe reproach- but extenuating circumstances exist.

So I'm playing EQ2 as my favorite Half-orc Thief when this huge Dark Elf Warrior named "F-You Foz" comes out of nowhere and just completely PKing me over and over and saying "Artest die" or something like that. WTF?

CR

I'll risk a dolapost here ;)


That's one of the things I find most ... dare I say "ironic" ... about this situation. I'm probably one of the most critical people when it comes to the players in the NBA, and here I am defending them almost unilaterally.

Aside from that, and in a general sense not specific to you, I strongly believe that overall public reaction to this over the next few days will be dictated quite a bit by salary envy.

Be that as it may that still does not justify letting people who are not law enforcement trying to take the law into their own hands. The players who punched fans are just as guilty of assault as the fans who thew chairs and punches especially considering that at least Artest punched someone who did not throw something at him.



As it is in all sports and unless you're not going to allow spectators there's nothing you can do about it except have security surround the court/field/diamond and immediately arrest any fan coming onto the playing surface. There is no excuse for fans to be on the playing surface and no reason for players to go into the stands.

OMG, WTF? LOL

NBA...I LOVE THIS GAME!!!

keep throwing beer, yes.

But by all accounts, this was the first beer thrown, and Artest just goes after the 1st fan that stands in front of him.

If it's only a beer, you let the local law enforcement make the first move.

Dola,

Unless you are looking for time off to promote a rap album.

Scariest incident I ever saw was a fan (sister of our PF) heading for a ref with murder in her eye & a knife in her hand. A fan waylaid her just long enough for cops to restrain her about 5 feet away from the oblivious official.

No charges were filed however ... since 3 of her brother's 5 fouls were totally bogus & we were playing at home :D

That is a good point. He will have plenty of time to promote his album now.

I understand what you are saying and yes, Im sure it would be hard for someone to show restraint in that situation but just because you can justify it from a human emotion standpoint does not make it ok or legal.

What I find interesting is that Artest didn't seem to take too much offense to Wallace shoving him in his face/throat but when a fan throws a beer at him THEN he's ready to fight.

I'm not familiar with that, what happened?

And I understand where you're coming from- Im just saying that this is the very definition of extenuating circumstances. The law is based on the premise that it will be enforced and that things like this would be discouraged actively- which as JIMGA has pointed out, was not at all in the NBA. Like I said, if you've sat and called me ethnic slurs for 48 minutes, do you really deserve the benefit of the doubt ?

Or throwing anything at a player. Or onto the playing surface.

And what you said there is pretty much what I'm saying it's time for -- an effective & consisten barrier between fans & players, be that a human barrier,
a "non-human" barrier (fences,plexigass, something), or a combination of the two. Whatever it takes ... unless we're prepared to have tonight's events & beyond become common enough that it wouldn't even warrant a post here, much less a very active thread.

Might take a second to load.
hxxp://www.imgbucket.com/63/boomshakalaka.jpg
Jackson out of nowhere with the full wind up right.

Rose was allowed to go to the game and be honored as one of the games greatest. Gray of course took that time to ask him about the gambling story and all that.

And then, when Gray, at the World Series that year, would ask anyone a question, they would simply walk away from him on camera.

Basically Gray just went after Pete in what was supposed to be just a quick interview.

yup. i give those guys who ignored him credit. shows a lot of guts.

Watching ESPN and enjoyed the studio crew there backpeddling after apparently getting a message from Joe Dumars asking why they are not laying any blame at the feet of the players for going into the stands. Interesting that NOW they're not referring to the "idiot fans" or talking about throwing the fans in jail but they are merely empathizing with the players in a situation like that.

Full video from TV

http://mfile.akamai.com/12942/wmv/vo...35750.200k.asx

That's a six-seven minute clip.

Wow.

Artest was just chillin'

Out of the hundreds of events I've covered, high school basketball tops the list. The fans are right on the court, too easy to hear everything, too easy to get involved.

One time two girls screaming about boyfriends, I think, suddenly whipped out knives and went after each other right behind the scorer's table. One of them nearly landed on my foot. Couldn't believe it, but two teachers got right in there and separated them. I sure as hell wasn't going to.

Another time, some idiots in the crowd who were unhappy with an apparent loss started throwing golf balls from the top of the bleachers at the visiting team bench during a time out. Everyone could see the group doing it, but security didn't go up there.

I know crazy things can happen at high school football games, but I've never seen the crowd involved. I did cover a game that ended in a brawl, and had the extremely wound up coach of one team threaten me when I tried to interview him after the game.

Watching the tapes of this Pistons thing, it's hard to tell what's going on. The sheer number of people who think it's okay to dump a beer on a player tells me something's gone terribly wrong. Yet Artest deserves a good suspension for going into the crowd swinging the way he did. The Pistons CEO yammering about "taunting the fans" by lying on the scorer's table is an idiot.

Spring High School Hockey. Nuff Said.

We brawled with Milford. Parent of the other team started it when he told a kid (as we're coming off of the ice) to beat up one of our D. So our kids dad got in this guys face, so they started fighting. So of course all the kids started going at it. Cops were called in. It was a mess.

You don't assault someone cause your "pissed," period. That isn't self defense. You can't tell me that Artest went through the stands out of fear for his own safety. If you are hit with a cup you don't think "Oh no, i am in danger!" You think "Who is the bastard who hit me with a cup?" The obvious reaction was that Artest was pissed and hyped up. Perhaps its understandable, but just because something is understandable does not make it defensible.

Yes, there should be better security for the athletes, especially so that one doesn't get really hurt instead of simply hit by a cup(although even a cup is unacceptable.) But sooner or later one should expect a human being to rise above base emotions to be civilized. Thats why we have laws. Thats why Artest punching the wrong guy out of simply anger is assault and wrong.

Did they take it down? It wouldnt load for me.

i love Artest. he's from Astoria. he went to grammar school with a friend of mine. i went to college with Artest - i was a junior when Artest was on the St. John's University team.

he represented how we do in Astoria. hard core, motherfuckers.

"punks jump up to get beat down".

damn i feel like it's the 90's and i'm a thug drinking in alleyways, getting into trouble with my boyeez.

ASTORIA REPRESENT. fuck you, bitches.

Just saw it on sportscenter.... WOW.

Alot of people are to blame for that one...

My final thoughts for the night:

Biggest Loser of the Day: The chubby guy in the Pistons jersey that walked onto the court and up to Artest and subsequently got knocked down by J. O'Neal.

My byte for you:

http://new.wavlist.com/movies/027/fri-ktfo2.wav

What's the matter with you? Did Foz stand you up at the prom or something?

Sheesh.

I agree. I don't approve Artest and the other players. But this wasn't just a handful of fans, it was a hell lot of fans (nearly everyone who could throw something). They were still throwing shit at the players as they exit the stands in a differnet part.

When the NBA has a golden chance to win fans (with no NHL, it has the spotlight), it fouls big time.

He will not be a loser when he gets awarded with a $10 million lawsuit.

You're smoking crack if you think he will win shit. You aren't a lawyer, so don't pretend like you know will become of this.

I may not be a lawayer, but I am smart enough to see that the guy, at least camera (and that is all the evidence you need) did nothing to provke getting punched. He had a deer in the headlights look on his face. He will say he was forced on the court becuase he flet it was the safest place to go.

That wav.......

I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.

And by the way, this crack is good asshole.

Please, i heard you used to make tinkle on The Cyclone out on Coney Island. :D

Man, who but a bug in your underoos this week?

He has been like this ever since he joined the board. He likes conflict. It is his way of getting attention.

Artest needs professional help

So when did I join this board?

No clue.

Thank you.