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JPhillips 04-07-2013 09:44 PM

From WaPo:

Quote:

Democratic Party officials believe that Kevin Strouse is exactly the kind of candidate who can help them retake the House next year.

He’s a smart, young former Army Ranger — good qualities for any aspiring politician. But what party leaders really like is that Strouse doesn’t have particularly strong views on the country’s hottest issues.

Yeah, the country is really looking for people that just want to be elected.

BYU 14 04-07-2013 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 2807929)
And yet its overhead is still lower than private insurers.

The reality is the country is getting older. The only way to solve that is some combination of raising taxes, reducing provider reimbursements or paying for fewer treatments.


Private insurers also derive income from sources beyond premium intake and the morass that is Medicare contributes more than it's fair share to the private insurers overhead in terms of mandates, rework, upgrades etc to those private insurers that provide Medicare, Medicaid and Medicare replacement policies.

Country is getting older and Medicare already does those things, in fact 28-30% rate decrease was set to take effect 01/01/13 to the Physician reimbursement schedule and it was blocked as part of the new years eve session.

I deal with CMS on a regular basis and I guarantee they could avoid a good chunk of benefit cuts and increased taxes with responsible restructuring.

Galaxy 04-08-2013 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 2807879)
I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing the politics of proposing the cuts knowing the GOP will say no and then giving the GOP ready made ads to scare seniors. It would be different if you believed the GOP would work with you, but this is the exact same plan they ran on in 2010 to devastating effect.

But at least David Brooks or the WaPo editorial board will write something nice about Obama.


I think both sides do this. The Dems use the scare tactics just as bad as the GOP. It's about the votes, nothing more, nothing less.

JPhillips 04-10-2013 03:32 PM

Nobody could see this coming.

Quote:

Remember those warnings about how instead of welcoming President Obama’s adoption of Chained CPI, Republicans would continue to deny him a budget deal and attack him for proposing to cut Social Security?

Well Rep. Greg Walden (R-OR) — who also happens to be chairman of the House GOP’s re-election committee — just showed how it’s done, saying Obama’s budget “lays out a shocking attack on seniors.”

“I’ll tell you when you’re going after seniors the way he’s already done on Obamacare, taken $700 billion out of Medicare to put into Obamacare and now coming back at seniors again, I think you’re crossing that line very quickly here in terms of denying access to seniors for health care in districts like mine certainly and around the country,” he said on CNN Wednesday afternoon.

RainMaker 04-10-2013 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan (Post 2807914)
Just allowing government health organisations to negotiate freely with regards to pricing for drugs would HUGELY reduce health costs in the US imho - it amazes me for a country so proud of its free-market roots it has a system wholly rigged purely to generate money for corporations.


The free market stuff is a scam. Neither side really wants it.

SirFozzie 04-12-2013 02:44 AM

I'm shocked, I thought Rubio would play to his base and attempt to kill the immigration bill, instead he's going to apparently be one of the most public faces FOR the bill


Marco Rubio goes all-in on immigration bill - Manu Raju - POLITICO.com

JPhillips 04-12-2013 09:50 AM

The past few months of explosive Bitcoin value and then the crash of the past couple of days is a very good example of why the gold standard is a bad idea.

SirFozzie 04-12-2013 02:18 PM

Apparently, this is the bumper sticker that GOP congressman Steve Stockman is promoting for his reelection campaign.

"If Babies had guns, they wouldn't be aborted"


*sighs*

lungs 04-12-2013 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 2810522)
The past few months of explosive Bitcoin value and then the crash of the past couple of days is a very good example of why the gold standard is a bad idea.


Funny. The other day my sister (a libertarian) posted something on Facebook about how she should have bought some Bitcoins.

No response to my post on her wall about the crash :)

cartman 04-12-2013 05:16 PM

A sign of how wrapped around the axle we are.

Beware: Survey Questions About Fictional Issues Still Get Answers

panerd 04-12-2013 05:22 PM

October 9, 2007
Dow 14164
Gold 700

Today
Dow 14865
Gold 1477


One has doubled in the past 7 years and the other gained a little less than 1% a year. I guess gold needs to crash completely and then regain back to where it was and we can all sing its praises.

JPhillips 04-12-2013 06:48 PM

Doubling the value of currency in 6 years would be disastrous. It isn't just the crash.

edit: I should explain more.

If people have a reasonable expectation that the currency tomorrow will buy more than it does today nobody will buy anything non-essential.

molson 04-12-2013 06:53 PM

Aren't bitcoins just kind of a speculative commodities vehicle for nerds? The were up 1700% or something in a year or two against real currencies, then they lose half their value overnight. Seems like you could do OK if you just jumped in and out at the right times. I wonder who's pulling the strings.

panerd 04-12-2013 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 2810779)
Doubling the value of currency in 6 years would be disastrous. It isn't just the crash.

edit: I should explain more.

If people have a reasonable expectation that the currency tomorrow will buy more than it does today nobody will buy anything non-essential.


Believe me Washington DC is not doubling the value of the currency. In fact I would love for you to show me a period of time where they do anything but devalue it.

sterlingice 04-12-2013 07:32 PM

There are some serious problems with our current system. However, I think controlled/uncontrolled deflation is the price we pay rather than a panic cycle like we had in the 19th century.

How does a gold backed currency deal with September 16th, 2008? I'd argue that without being able to essentially print money, we would have gone straight into another great depression rather than a long, slow recession. Time will tell which would be better but over $3T would have gone out of the market that day and we would have had a genuine panic.

EDIT: And I don't think one bases a decision on one rare event. But I am, to this day, of the genuine belief that if RPF doesn't get bailed out right then and there, we are, at best, facing another Great Depression and, at worst, in danger of modern society collapsing. And I believe that, without hyperbole. If you yank $3T out of a $60T world economy in a matter of hours, the effect of that will be staggering as it causes a run on everything else and I couldn't tell you where the floor would be.

SI

JPhillips 04-12-2013 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 2810786)
Believe me Washington DC is not doubling the value of the currency. In fact I would love for you to show me a period of time where they do anything but devalue it.


If we're on a gold standard Washington doesn't have a ton of control of the value of currency.

RainMaker 04-12-2013 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 2810749)
October 9, 2007
Dow 14164
Gold 700

Today
Dow 14865
Gold 1477


One has doubled in the past 7 years and the other gained a little less than 1% a year. I guess gold needs to crash completely and then regain back to where it was and we can all sing its praises.



1980
Dow 759
Gold 615

Today
Dow 14865
Gold 1477

Tell me where you'd rather have your money invested over the last 33 years. And that doesn't even include all the dividends you would have taken home too. And if we're adjusting for inflation, your investment into gold back in 1980 would have lost you a couple hundred dollars an ounce. That's why cherry picking two data points is stupid.

And LOL at wanting to tie your currency to a metal that fluctuates as much as gold in this modern era. Days like today would be fun. Hey everyone, all the money you have is now worth 4% less than it did yesterday!

RainMaker 04-12-2013 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 2810843)
If we're on a gold standard Washington doesn't have a ton of control of the value of currency.


But every other country does. Screw building up a military if you're China, just buy up as much gold as you can.

panerd 04-12-2013 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 2810853)
And LOL at wanting to tie your currency to a metal that fluctuates as much as gold in this modern era. Days like today would be fun. Hey everyone, all the money you have is now worth 4% less than it did yesterday!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning

The price of gold fluctuates wildly as a result of the United States removing itself from the gold standard. It is a bit of a stretch to say a gold standard won't work due to fluctuations that were controlled (by definition) by the gold standard. I think even anti-gold standard guys like JPhillips will agree with me on this one.

panerd 04-12-2013 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 2810855)
But every other country does. Screw building up a military if you're China, just buy up as much gold as you can.


Yeah its great that a country like China can't buy up our debt under the current system.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...uments/mfh.txt

molson 04-12-2013 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 2810859)
Yeah its great that a country like China can't buy up our debt under the current system.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...uments/mfh.txt


Luxembourg is suspiciously high on that list. Wonder what they're up to.......

RainMaker 04-12-2013 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 2810859)
Yeah its great that a country like China can't buy up our debt under the current system.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...uments/mfh.txt


They can buy debt under a gold standard too. What's your point here?

RainMaker 04-12-2013 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 2810858)
The price of gold fluctuates wildly as a result of the United States removing itself from the gold standard. It is a bit of a stretch to say a gold standard won't work due to fluctuations that were controlled (by definition) by the gold standard. I think even anti-gold standard guys like JPhillips will agree with me on this one.


Fluctuations weren't controlled by the gold standard. We saw huge swings during it, much larger and more frequent than what we see today. Gold is far more stable without the gold standard (when factoring inflation and real interest rates into the equation).

Edward64 04-13-2013 05:18 PM

I understand why but don't like how Obama is doing this. Seems gimmicky and there other worthy social causes/platforms that deserve just as much attention.

Mother of Newtown victim delivers emotional weekly address in Obama’s stead
Quote:

For the first time in his administration, President Obama has turned over his weekly nationally televised address to a citizen — Francine Wheeler, whose 6-year-old son, Ben, was among the 20 children killed in last December’s massacre in Newtown, Conn.

finketr 04-13-2013 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 2811091)
I understand why but don't like how Obama is doing this. Seems gimmicky and there other worthy social causes/platforms that deserve just as much attention.

Mother of Newtown victim delivers emotional weekly address in Obama’s stead


Great.. Will he give equal access to the other side?

miked 04-13-2013 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finketr (Post 2811131)
Great.. Will he give equal access to the other side?


Does the NRA need help buying radio slots?

JPhillips 04-13-2013 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finketr (Post 2811131)
Great.. Will he give equal access to the other side?


The GOP has a weekly address, too.

RainMaker 04-15-2013 08:49 PM

Gold down 10% from Panerds post the other day. Lets back our entire currency with it!

Edward64 04-15-2013 09:44 PM

Not quite 10% but point taken.

Gold plunges as China data hit commodities - Apr. 15, 2013
Quote:

Gold plunged more than 9% Monday to its lowest level in over two years, in the biggest one-day sell-off in decades, as a global tumble in commodities gained steam.

Gold for June delivery, the most active futures contract, lost more than $140 an ounce to trade well below $1,400, adding to Friday's sharp sell-off, when the precious metal slumped 5%. The gold contract is now in bear market territory, having fallen 29% from its record high in September 2011.

Spot gold, which is for April delivery, also tumbled -- dropping 9.3%, the biggest drop since Jan. 22, 1980, when gold prices plunged 17% in a single trading day.

Monday's broad decline was sparked by slowing growth in China. The world's second-biggest economy grew at a 7.7% annual rate, which was weaker than the 8% most economists were expecting.


Edward64 04-15-2013 09:51 PM

I watched Rubio on the Sun talk shows. I don't think he convinced anyone that this was not amnesty. I like a lot about the bill, there are other parts that I am undecided on. I don't think it'll do a lot of stem the tide of illegal immigration ... Reagan's version didn't work.

But I respect him for being out there.

Triggers vital for path to citizenship, Rubio says – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs
Quote:

A bipartisan proposal to revamp U.S. immigration policies will contain three policy steps that must be accomplished before undocumented workers can apply for legal status, an architect of the measure said on Sunday.

Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Florida, said the "triggers" embedded in a legislative proposal to be unveiled this week are necessary to ensure workable reforms that discourage immigrants from coming to the United States illegally.

"If we don't do enforcement, if enforcement is not a part of this, and if we don't modernize legal immigration, if we don't do all of these things, then we're going to be right back here in 10 years having the same conversation - and that would be the worst outcome," Rubio told chief political correspondent Candy Crowley on CNN's "State of the Union."

Rubio, who made the rounds of Sunday talk shows, disputed conservative critics who say a pathway to citizenship is tantamount to amnesty.

“This is not amnesty. Amnesty is the forgiveness of something. Amnesty is anything that says do it illegally, it will be cheaper and easier,” he said on “Fox News Sunday.”


Edward64 04-16-2013 11:05 PM

Coincidently just bought and watched Zero Dark Thirty.

No doubt in my mind some torture was used to gain intelligence. Were there some abuses, sure (and I don't mean the adolescent Abu Ghraib version).

I've read supposedly torture doesn't work well. The movie seem to indicate triangulating information from different tortured suspects led to the lead to OBL.

All in all, if I was GWB, I would be hardpressed not to use torture in special and limited situations ... so not going to fault him (or Obama) on it.

Bush-era torture use 'indisputable,' Guantanamo must close, task force finds - U.S. News
Quote:

An independent task force issued a damning review of Bush-era interrogation practices on Tuesday, saying the highest U.S. officials bore ultimate responsibility for the "indisputable" use of torture, and it urged President Barack Obama to close the Guantanamo detention camp by the end of 2014.

In one of the most comprehensive studies of U.S. treatment of terrorism suspects, the panel concluded that never before had there been "the kind of considered and detailed discussions that occurred after 9/11 directly involving a president and his top advisers on the wisdom, propriety and legality of inflicting pain and torment on some detainees in our custody."

"It is indisputable that the United States engaged in the practice of torture," the 11-member task force, assembled by the nonpartisan Constitution Project think tank, said in their 577-page report.

The scathing critique of methods used under the Republican administration of former President George W. Bush also sharpened the focus on the plight of inmates at Guantanamo, which Bush opened and his Democratic successor has failed to close.

Obama banned abusive interrogation techniques such as waterboarding when he took office in early 2009, but the widely condemned military prison at the U.S. Naval Base in Cuba has remained an object of condemnation by human rights advocates.


panerd 04-17-2013 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 2811886)
Gold down 10% from Panerds post the other day. Lets back our entire currency with it!


LOL.

A. I believe it was your argument that taking the pulse of anything over a small select period will yield inaccurate information. So go ahead and pick a 10% drop and ignore the growth the last ten years your big government perspective is pretty obvious anyways.

B. I still don't think you understand what a gold standard is. The gold to dollar value would not change at all. (And you can't really compare the 15 trillion dollar hole we have to a time where you could only spend the money you have, so why exactly is this the fault of an object like gold and not the politicians who are spending the money?)

C. What do you think all of he central banks have large holdings of to back the currency? I will give you a hint it's gold and shiny.

miked 04-17-2013 04:00 PM

Despite support from ~80% of the public and 54% of the Senate, expanded background checks fails to get the "supermajority" needed to pass a bill.

Mizzou B-ball fan 04-17-2013 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked (Post 2812584)
Despite support from ~80% of the public and 54% of the Senate, expanded background checks fails to get the "supermajority" needed to pass a bill.


The continued use of the 'filibuster' that isn't really a filibuster is making a mockery of Congress. I don't really care either way on whether it passes. It's just ridiculous that it continues on without question. I'm guessing there's no way for constituents to change it either, as it's a matter of procedure within the governing body.

sterlingice 04-17-2013 05:02 PM

Just started listening to Master of the Senate on CD. This seems really familiar.

SI

lungs 04-17-2013 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 2812598)
Just started listening to Master of the Senate on CD. This seems really familiar.

SI


I just started reading it. Definitely sounds familiar.

Maybe the Dems need an LBJ to get something done in the Senate :)

Grammaticus 04-17-2013 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked (Post 2812584)
Despite support from ~80% of the public and 54% of the Senate, expanded background checks fails to get the "supermajority" needed to pass a bill.


I think you are kidding yourself if you think that bill has 80% support of the public.

miked 04-17-2013 06:47 PM

It would probably have higher if the rednecks didn't think the bill was an attempt to track and take thurrrr guns.

No, but seriously even Fox News poll had support at 80% or so. I mean, it's silly. If we require it for stores, why do we exempt gun shows and flea markets? Because it's an undue burden? I go to flea markets and see people selling stuff using their smartphones to run cards, why can't we check to make sure people who aren't supposed to be buying guns aren't. I mean, the mantra I keep hearing is that responsible gun owners follow the laws, so why is everyone so opposed to closing this loophole?

sterlingice 04-17-2013 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lungs (Post 2812600)
I just started reading it. Definitely sounds familiar.

Maybe the Dems need an LBJ to get something done in the Senate :)


I'm still in the history portion. Going through the section on 1919 right now. Unfortunately, since I got it on interlibrary loan, I only get it for 2 weeks so I will probably only make it through the first hundred or so pages.

SI

Edward64 04-17-2013 10:18 PM

I own weapons and I'm good with background checks. I don't understand the resistance other than "if you give in here, where does it stop" logic.

Background checks are painless nowadays (or at least in B&M stores I go to).

Edward64 04-17-2013 10:40 PM

Shouldn't this be a UN job to plan for refugees and humanitarian aid? The second paragraph on intervention must the primary driver. I don't like how we are getting involved here.

Jordan must really be worried to allow this. If Assad survives this, Jordan should be worried about Syria and henchmen.

Front Office Football Central
Quote:

WASHINGTON — The Pentagon is sending about 200 troops to Jordan, the vanguard of a potential U.S. military force of 20,000 or more that could be deployed if the Obama administration decides to intervene in Syria to secure chemical weapons arsenals or to prevent the 2-year-old civil war from spilling into neighboring nations.

Troops from the 1st Armored Division will establish a small headquarters near Jordan's border with Syria to help deliver humanitarian supplies for a growing flood of refugees and to plan for possible military operations, including a rapid buildup of American forces if the White House decides intervention is necessary, senior U.S. officials said.

Although the Pentagon has sent Patriot missile batteries to Turkey and several dozen U.S. troops already are in Jordan to assist with aid flights and other operations, the move marks the first deployment that Pentagon officials explicitly described as a possible step toward direct military involvement in Syria.
:
:
The willingness of Jordan's King Abdullah II to accept even a small number of U.S. troops reflects the growing concern about the spillover effects of the Syrian bloodletting.

Jordan is one of Washington's closest allies in the region, but it has no U.S. bases and has never allowed a sizable U.S. military presence, fearful it would spark domestic unrest. Even during the 2003 American-led invasion of Iraq, which Jordan supported, the presence of U.S. special operations forces entering Iraq from Jordan was a closely held secret.

But with Syria imploding and refugees streaming across the border, Jordanian officials have agreed to accept the small U.S. contingent and are willing to consider a larger force in the future, U.S. officials said.


RainMaker 04-17-2013 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 2812396)
A. I believe it was your argument that taking the pulse of anything over a small select period will yield inaccurate information. So go ahead and pick a 10% drop and ignore the growth the last ten years your big government perspective is pretty obvious anyways.


I don't think you understand what short term volatility like that does. It makes it incredibly difficult to determine what the value of debt is when your currency shows it's worth 10% less one week. That has nothing to do with big or small government. Although it's funny since the "small government" gold standard supporters forget that it required government to make it illegal to own gold in this country and confiscated what they had.

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 2812396)
B. I still don't think you understand what a gold standard is. The gold to dollar value would not change at all. (And you can't really compare the 15 trillion dollar hole we have to a time where you could only spend the money you have, so why exactly is this the fault of an object like gold and not the politicians who are spending the money?)


I know the value doesn't change. But if more gold is produced and put on the open market, it is inflationary. If less gold is produced, it is deflationary. Since other countries mine gold in large numbers, they are capable of manipulating our economy.

I know what the gold standard is and basic economics. That's why I know it's stupid in 2013. It places massive restrictions on how much your economy can grow. All at the same time competing with other countries who don't have those restrictions. It would lead to massive deflation at times and massive depressions (just as it did when it was in place).

It's one of the dumbest ideas put out there and almost no economists think it is beneficial. It's just some dumb thing put out by small government folks who don't understand basic economics. It is funny watching these people scream about inflation during a time when commodities are taking a shit.

Edward64 04-22-2013 07:35 PM

Not alot of news on the budget with the tragedies last week but some good deficit news ...

Deficits are falling. For now - Apr. 22, 2013
Quote:

Remember 2009, the depths of the economic crisis? That year, the country spent way more than it brought in and ran an eye-popping shortfall that topped 10% of the size of the economy.

This year the deficit is expected to be half that -- around 5.3% of GDP, the Congressional Budget Office estimates.

And by 2015, it's projected to drop to 2.4%.

What's more, the national debt that has accumulated from annual deficits is also projected to fall to an estimated 73.1% of GDP in 2018 from an estimated 76.3% today.

There are several reasons for the downward trend. The economy is on the mend. Incoming federal revenue has risen from 60-year lows and will soon top its historical average for much of the next decade. Spending, meanwhile, has come down from 60-year highs.

And, of course, projections have improved because Congress and President Obama have signed off on $4 trillion of deficit reduction that is set to unfold over the next decade. That assumes the roughly $1 trillion in forced budget cuts that went into effect last month are kept on the books or replaced with something comparable, as Obama has proposed.
:
:
Here's what he means: Because Congress has yet to get a handle on the large, long-term imbalances between spending and revenue, deficits are expected to start rising again by 2016 and debt will resume its upward trek by 2019.

Mizzou B-ball fan 04-23-2013 07:51 AM

This is disappointing to see. The military is trying to cut additional costs, but members of Congress won't let them for fear that they'll be tagged as closing bases, etc. in their next election.

Congress forcing military to keep unwanted assets, programs despite spending cuts, report says | Fox News

DaddyTorgo 04-23-2013 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 2814214)
This is disappointing to see. The military is trying to cut additional costs, but members of Congress won't let them for fear that they'll be tagged as closing bases, etc. in their next election.

Congress forcing military to keep unwanted assets, programs despite spending cuts, report says | Fox News


Nothing new here. You remember the old "Base Closure Committee" because the spineless fucks couldn't do this before?

It's pathetic and disgusting.

cartman 04-23-2013 02:46 PM

The Missouri state senate voted to defund the driver's license office.

Missouri Senate votes to defund driver’s license bureau - KansasCity.com

molson 04-23-2013 03:43 PM

I'm surprised there hasn't been more "message sending" cuts. Missouri can afford $3.5 million for an essential government service. I know they're one of those states that botches their state budget annually, but come on.

JPhillips 04-23-2013 05:43 PM

I heard the AP twitter was hacked and a message saying the WH was bombed was sent out. That caused the stock market to briefly crash. Did that really happen?

JonInMiddleGA 04-23-2013 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 2814446)
I heard the AP twitter was hacked and a message saying the WH was bombed was sent out. That caused the stock market to briefly crash. Did that really happen?



Yep. Dow plunged 140 points almost immediately.

AP hack proves Twitter has a serious cybersecurity problem - Apr. 23, 2013

I will say that if the "two factor authentication method" mentioned in the article is like what you have to go through when logging into xbox.com, that'd end my use of Twitter for all except the extremely occasional thing. And my experience is that their suggestion of ending simultaneous log-ins would have an extremely chilling effect on business use of it as well. It's not at all uncommon for multiple people in multiple locations to have posting privileges on corporate Twitter accounts, especially in small to medium sized companies.

DaddyTorgo 04-23-2013 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman (Post 2814397)
The Missouri state senate voted to defund the driver's license office.

Missouri Senate votes to defund driver’s license bureau - KansasCity.com


What ding-dongs.

larrymcg421 04-23-2013 06:51 PM

"I've never argued against any technology being used when you an imminent threat, an active crime going on. If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash, I don't care if a drone kills him or a policeman kills him." - Rand Paul

Thomkal 04-23-2013 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421 (Post 2814469)
"I've never argued against any technology being used when you an imminent threat, an active crime going on. If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash, I don't care if a drone kills him or a policeman kills him." - Rand Paul


Apparently he's already forgotten about that whole filibuster thing where he said this:

“I will speak as long as it takes, until the alarm is sounded from coast to coast that our Constitution is important, that your rights to trial by jury are precious, that no American should be killed by a drone on American soil without first being charged with a crime, without first being found to be guilty by a court.”

DaddyTorgo 04-23-2013 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 2814472)
Apparently he's already forgotten about that whole filibuster thing where he said this:

“I will speak as long as it takes, until the alarm is sounded from coast to coast that our Constitution is important, that your rights to trial by jury are precious, that no American should be killed by a drone on American soil without first being charged with a crime, without first being found to be guilty by a court.”


Hypocrite :rolleyes:

panerd 04-23-2013 07:31 PM

Such a meaningless politician seems to really rile up the liberals. :) There is no doubt that he aint his dad but here is the whole quote (which was in the context of the Boston incident)...

"“Here’s the distinction — I have never argued against any technology being used against having an imminent threat an act of crime going on,” Paul said. “If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and $50 in cash, I don’t care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him, but it’s different if they want to come fly over your hot tub, or your yard just because they want to do surveillance on everyone, and they want to watch your activities.”

I still don't agree with it but weird that the liberal blogs seem to cut the end of the statement off especially when his sentence had not even ended. Hopefully its because they agree with it (which used to be the biggest selling point of the Democratic party to me) but they probably mock that statement as well. Terrorism the reason of course.

JPhillips 04-23-2013 08:06 PM

He was right the first time. No American citizen should be killed without a fair trial. He's a lot more of a politician than his father.

Of course I'm anti-death penalty, but you know what I mean.

panerd 04-23-2013 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 2814537)
He was right the first time. No American citizen should be killed without a fair trial. He's a lot more of a politician than his father.

Of course I'm anti-death penalty, but you know what I mean.


You're right. It certainly seemed like a trap question... "So you wouldn't use drones against the terrorists in Boston" but you are right his dad wouldn't have taken the bait. It really does test my integrity because outside of Lee and Amash he is about as close as its going to get to Libertarian in a major office but its compromises like this that still give me great worry. On the other hand Ron Paul would have given them their soundbite for the next election "OMG What about TERROR!!!!????!!!!!"

cartman 04-24-2013 02:04 PM

House conservatives call for new vote to repeal ObamaCare - The Hill's Healthwatch

FTFA:

Quote:

“The guys who have been up here the last two years, we can go home and say, 'Listen, we voted 36 different times to repeal or replace ObamaCare.' Tell me what the new guys are supposed to say?” second-term Rep. Mick Mulvaney (R-S.C.)

Quote:

“I want a chance as a freshman to do that, even if it’s just symbolic,” Rep. Trey Radel (R-Fla.) said.

DaddyTorgo 04-24-2013 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman (Post 2814882)


What a waste of time. How about they actually ya know...do something constructive.

Fucking Washington.

Buccaneer 04-26-2013 01:10 PM

Congress easily approved the bill to end airport delays. While it said the democrats went along with it, they wanted all cuts to be lifted. Are they that stupid in believing no cuts should be made or do they agree with pelosi in believing nothing more can be cut? That continues to boggles the mind. I believe $85 billion cuts were a joke; not only in that being an insignificant amount (it should 5 times that), but they cut things solely to make a political point.

JPhillips 04-26-2013 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer (Post 2815975)
Congress easily approved the bill to end airport delays. While it said the democrats went along with it, they wanted all cuts to be lifted. Are they that stupid in believing no cuts should be made or do they agree with pelosi in believing nothing more can be cut? That continues to boggles the mind. I believe $85 billion cuts were a joke; not only in that being an insignificant amount (it should 5 times that), but they cut things solely to make a political point.


That part is largely untrue. Congress passed spending bills that mandate certain spending and then Congress passed an across the board cut. Under those circumstances agencies are legally bound to apply the cut equally rather than pick and chose. Congress could have given blanket authority to allow agencies to prioritize spending, but neither party wanted to set a precedent where agencies would get to decide what gets funded rather than Congress.

Grammaticus 04-26-2013 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 2815979)
That part is largely untrue. Congress passed spending bills that mandate certain spending and then Congress passed an across the board cut. Under those circumstances agencies are legally bound to apply the cut equally rather than pick and chose. Congress could have given blanket authority to allow agencies to prioritize spending, but neither party wanted to set a precedent where agencies would get to decide what gets funded rather than Congress.


That is not true. prior to the sequester kicking in, the speaker offerred to let the executive branch have broader control. Obama refused, thinking he would score big trying to blame the opposing party of horrible cuts. That did not work, so he is trying to play politics with services he thinks will score him points. It is all a giant game to see who can win public perception.

cartman 04-26-2013 01:41 PM

Regardless, the function of spending falls under the Legislative Branch, not Executive, and it isn't clear if Congress is allowed by the Constitution to pass that authority to the President.

Buccaneer 04-26-2013 01:41 PM

So why did the White House cut out tours for the public instead of staff or some of their more extravagant perks? Across the board cuts are a good place to start but they could've looked harder at internal expenditures instead of choosing some of the ones that would have a greater impact on the public. It should be more about serving the people more efficiently instead of serving the system and their domains.

JPhillips 04-26-2013 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammaticus (Post 2815986)
That is not true. prior to the sequester kicking in, the speaker offerred to let the executive branch have broader control. Obama refused, thinking he would score big trying to blame the opposing party of horrible cuts. That did not work, so he is trying to play politics with services he thinks will score him points. It is all a giant game to see who can win public perception.


Boehner offered, but when they actually discussed legislation both parties refused to support it. Congress, rightfully IMO, doesn't want to give spending authority to the executive branch.

JPhillips 04-26-2013 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer (Post 2815988)
So why did the White House cut out tours for the public instead of staff or some of their more extravagant perks? Across the board cuts are a good place to start but they could've looked harder at internal expenditures instead of choosing some of the ones that would have a greater impact on the public. It should be more about serving the people more efficiently instead of serving the system and their domains.


I think the tours bit was political, that's why I said largely untrue, but the air traffic controller furloughs and the coming problems with the national parks are just a function of across the board budget cuts implemented well after the annual budget.

JonInMiddleGA 04-26-2013 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer (Post 2815988)
So why did the White House cut out tours for the public instead of staff or some of their more extravagant perks?


While White House staff is reported to have approved the tour cuts, they were actually originally by proposed by - and are savings counted toward - the budget cuts of the Secret Service, not WH admin. Annually, they would account for about 5% (approx $4m of $84m) of the cuts needed by the Secret Service.

If the choice is spending salary for the tours vs salary toward their protective services mission or their criminal investigation duties, I'm completely fine with the tours getting the ax frankly.

(And that appears to be the choice, as the explanation has been that those hours will still be worked & paid but they will prevent overtime costs in other areas ... which likely makes the savings even bigger than reported.)

Buccaneer 04-26-2013 02:06 PM

I had forgotten that the WH falls under the SS.

albionmoonlight 04-26-2013 07:03 PM

The Democrats finally had some anti-sequester leverage with the flight delays. Some tangible thing to help demonstrate the helpful role that government plays in our lives.

So, they made sure to get rid of that leverage as soon as possible.

The modern GOP is a couple of orders of magnitude better at the political game than the modern Dems. President Obama is a decent politician, so that tends to mask the disparity a bit. I had kind of forgotten just how outclassed the Dems are at politics.

JPhillips 04-26-2013 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 2816120)
The Democrats finally had some anti-sequester leverage with the flight delays. Some tangible thing to help demonstrate the helpful role that government plays in our lives.

So, they made sure to get rid of that leverage as soon as possible.

The modern GOP is a couple of orders of magnitude better at the political game than the modern Dems. President Obama is a decent politician, so that tends to mask the disparity a bit. I had kind of forgotten just how outclassed the Dems are at politics.


It's more than they are bad at the game, they have no spine for a fight. Few ideas and no courage isn't a good combination.

sterlingice 04-26-2013 08:22 PM

That implies they want to win the game

SI

Edward64 04-27-2013 07:11 PM

We are back to that chemical weapons red line. I don't think Obama wants to escalate and probably regrets the threat.

U.S.: Intelligence points to small-scale use of sarin in Syria - CNN.com
Quote:

The United States has evidence that the chemical weapon sarin has been used in Syria on a small scale, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said Thursday.

But numerous questions remain about the origins of the chemical and what effect its apparent use could have on the ongoing Syrian civil war and international involvement in it.

When asked whether the intelligence community's conclusion pushed the situation across President Barack Obama's "red line" that could trigger more U.S. involvement in the war, Hagel said it's too soon to say.

"We need all the facts. We need all the information," he said. "What I've just given you is what our intelligence community has said they know. As I also said, they are still assessing, and they are still looking at what happened, who was responsible and the other specifics that we'll need."


Edward64 04-27-2013 07:12 PM

And this is probably why.

Islamist Rebels’ Gains in Syria Create Dilemma for U.S. - NYTimes.com
Quote:

CAIRO — In Syria’s largest city, Aleppo, rebels aligned with Al Qaeda control the power plant, run the bakeries and head a court that applies Islamic law. Elsewhere, they have seized government oil fields, put employees back to work and now profit from the crude they produce.

Across Syria, rebel-held areas are dotted with Islamic courts staffed by lawyers and clerics, and by fighting brigades led by extremists. Even the Supreme Military Council, the umbrella rebel organization whose formation the West had hoped would sideline radical groups, is stocked with commanders who want to infuse Islamic law into a future Syrian government.


rowech 04-27-2013 08:09 PM

We cannot go diving into yet another situation. It is beyond the wrong time for it.

panerd 04-28-2013 03:16 PM

I'm not a big fan of some the previous press correspondent's dinners when the President and press joke about wars and serious issues but this one was pretty funny from President Obama...

"I'm also hard at work on plans for the Obama Library, and some have suggested that we put it in my birthplace, but I'd rather keep it in the United States," he said.

Edward64 04-28-2013 03:50 PM

Saw bits and pieces of it on CNN.

I think the ribbing to Gallup and Morris was great. I saw the birth place one also.

I did not like him on his joke on the Bush Library. I know it wasn't directed at Bush and made fun of himself, but the Bush Library event was just last week and I feel should have been left out of it.

DaddyTorgo 04-28-2013 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 2816598)
Saw bits and pieces of it on CNN.

I think the ribbing to Gallup and Morris was great. I saw the birth place one also.

I did not like him on his joke on the Bush Library. I know it wasn't directed at Bush and made fun of himself, but the Bush Library event was just last week and I feel should have been left out of it.


Um - they don't leave anything out of these typically. That's sorta the way it is.

Edward64 04-28-2013 06:26 PM

So it makes it right to joke about something you solemnly attended and praised not less than a week ago?

DaddyTorgo 04-28-2013 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 2816625)
So it makes it right to joke about something you solemnly attended and praised not less than a week ago?


Have you not watched these before? They joke about EVERYTHING.

So yes. The answer is yes.

Neon_Chaos 04-28-2013 07:30 PM

The one with Colbert during the Bush Administration was pretty brutal. :) you should see the video of Laura Bush cursing him out as he shakes her hand.

sterlingice 04-28-2013 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos (Post 2816632)
The one with Colbert during the Bush Administration was pretty brutal. :) you should see the video of Laura Bush cursing him out as he shakes her hand.


Yeah, I don't think Colbert will ever be invited back as that was particularly brutal.

SI

JPhillips 05-01-2013 09:22 PM

Wow.

Quote:

44 percent of Republicans agreed with the statement: “In the next few years, an armed revolution might be necessary in order to protect our liberties”.

JonInMiddleGA 05-01-2013 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 2817944)
Wow.


Another 40-50 percent didn't feel it wise to speak candidly to a pollster, not being sure who they might be working for.

Matthean 05-01-2013 09:55 PM

Pentagon May Court Martial Soldiers Who Share Christian Faith

I'm wait and see on this, but there's very little room in reading this in a positive way.

JPhillips 05-01-2013 10:05 PM

Coming from Breitbart I think you can assume it's way overblown.

molson 05-01-2013 10:20 PM

Surveys have shown a pretty significant number of truthers among Democrats.

Democrats and Trutherism

I think these kinds of polls are more about trash-talking an administration you don't like. I don't think they expose literal beliefs about anything significant. I refuse to believe that 1 in 4 Dems literally think secret explosives in the towers brought them down. These questions are always worded in a such a way that can be a little misleading - "an armed revolution might be necessary" - people who are saying yes to that aren't necessarily saying they're taking up arms, or that a revolution will happen, they just need to think armed revolution "might be necessary" in order for this country to be the way they want it to be. When in truth, they're probably right. I think armed revolution is probably necessary to say, stop the acceptance of gay marriage. That doesn't mean that it's going to happen.

Edward64 05-03-2013 07:13 PM

An escalation? Wonder if Israel gave Obama a heads up first ... probably not.

Sources: U.S. believes Israel has conducted an airstrike into Syria - CNN.com
Quote:

The United States believes Israel has conducted an airstrike into Syria, two U.S. officials tell CNN.

U.S. and Western intelligence agencies are reviewing classified data showing Israel most likely conducted a strike in the Thursday-Friday time frame, according to both officials. This is the same time frame that the U.S. collected additional data showing Israel was flying a high number of warplanes over Lebanon.

One official said the United States had limited information so far and could not yet confirm those are the specific warplanes that conducted a strike. Based on initial indications, the U.S. does not believe Israeli warplanes entered Syrian airspace to conduct the strikes.

Both officials said there is no reason to believe Israel struck at a chemical weapons storage facilities. The Israelis have long said they would strike at any targets that prove to be the transfer of any kinds of weapons to Hezbollah or other terrorist groups, as well as at any effort to smuggle Syrian weapons into Lebanon that could threaten Israel.

The Lebanese army website listed 16 flights by Israeli warplanes penetrating Lebanon's airspace from Thursday evening through Friday afternoon local time.

The Israeli military had no comment. But a source in the Israeli defense establishment told CNN's Sara Sidner, "We will do whatever is necessary to stop the transfer of weapons from Syria to terrorist organizations. We have done it in the past and we will do it if necessary the future."


sterlingice 05-03-2013 09:30 PM

Aw, geez. Israel just likes to make things tough

SI

Marc Vaughan 05-03-2013 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthean (Post 2817972)
Pentagon May Court Martial Soldiers Who Share Christian Faith

I'm wait and see on this, but there's very little room in reading this in a positive way.


Not in favor of this being prevented any more than sharing political views should be restricted ... however I think that article is heavily biased in the extreme .... firstly I doubt its just the 'christian' faith affected by this and I doubt someone sharing their beliefs casually would be affected - some context is required, is this aimed at preventing excessive persuasion / peer pressure being applied or using a tannoy to broadcast beliefs etc.

Looks like a storm in a teacup to me - but obviously very good and easily applied fodder for scare mongering ...

SirFozzie 05-03-2013 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthean (Post 2817972)
Pentagon May Court Martial Soldiers Who Share Christian Faith

I'm wait and see on this, but there's very little room in reading this in a positive way.


There's plenty of way to read it in a positive way. There have been pockets of aggressively proselytizing groups within the armed forces, putting pressure on others, in a quasi-official manner. It's not illegal to be a christian, it's illegal to try to force others to attend christian services.

It's been a long running problem:

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/ande...ons-in-us.html

SirFozzie 05-03-2013 11:13 PM

Here's a more accurate story, from the Army Times:

Religion clash hits DoD | Army Times | armytimes.com

Edward64 05-05-2013 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 2818772)
An escalation? Wonder if Israel gave Obama a heads up first ... probably not.

Sources: U.S. believes Israel has conducted an airstrike into Syria - CNN.com


More Israeli attacks in Syria. Suspect this escalation is not what Obama wants.

Syria: Attack on military site was a 'declaration of war' by Israel - CNN.com
Quote:

A Syrian official called an attack Sunday on the nation's military research facility a "declaration of war" by Israel.

In an interview with CNN, Deputy Foreign Minister Faisal al Mekdad said the attack represented an alliance between Islamic terrorists and Israel.

He added that Syria would retaliate against Israel in its own time and way.

Early Sunday morning, a series of massive explosions illuminated the predawn sky in Damascus, prompting more claims that Israel has launched attacks into the war-torn country.

Syria accused Israel of firing rockets into the Damascus suburb of Jamraya, striking the research center, Syrian state-run TV reported. The report claimed that the rocket attack on the research center aided rebels, who have been battling government forces in the region.


Autumn 05-05-2013 09:00 AM

Quote:

Deputy Foreign Minister Faisal al Mekdad said the attack represented an alliance between Islamic terrorists and Israel.

Good luck making that propaganda stick, lol. "Seems legit."

Mizzou B-ball fan 05-05-2013 01:36 PM

Don't think this should be a surprise to anyone. It was pretty clear from the start that leadership was minimizing what they knew about the situation.

Benghazi whistle-blower Hicks: Internal review 'let people off the hook' – The Lead with Jake Tapper - CNN.com Blogs

JPhillips 05-05-2013 09:38 PM

Now what? Bomb both sides?

Quote:

(Reuters) - U.N. human rights investigators have gathered testimony from casualties of Syria's civil war and medical staff indicating that rebel forces have used the nerve agent sarin, one of the lead investigators said on Sunday.

JonInMiddleGA 05-05-2013 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 2819330)
Now what? Bomb both sides?


Works for me ;)

This is a conflict where there's not any good guys in sight as far as I can tell, just bad actors vs bad actors (which is a reason I'm on board with us staying the hell out of it as long as it remains within Syrian borders)

JPhillips 05-05-2013 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 2819331)
This is a conflict where there's not any good guys in sight as far as I can tell, just bad actors vs bad actors (which is a reason I'm on board with us staying the hell out of it as long as it remains within Syrian borders)


Every now and then we agree.

Peregrine 05-06-2013 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 2819331)
Works for me ;)

This is a conflict where there's not any good guys in sight as far as I can tell, just bad actors vs bad actors (which is a reason I'm on board with us staying the hell out of it as long as it remains within Syrian borders)


Have to agree with this, though I wonder how long it will stay contained inside Syria - I mean when a civil war has reached the point where both sides are using nerve gas, there's not much left to really stop it from escalating.

JonInMiddleGA 05-07-2013 10:16 PM

I think this kinda gets political catch-all stuff, so ...

Mark Sanford wins Jim DeMint's old congressional seat, beats Colbert's sister by winning every county in the district en route to a 54-46 victory.

No surprise from the standpoint of having an (R) elected in the district for like three decades running, surprising from the standpoint of just how horribly bad a candidate could be & still win.

sterlingice 05-08-2013 05:46 AM

"Hiking the Appalachian trail" is still a favorite euphemism of mine.

SI

SirFozzie 05-08-2013 01:07 PM

Deficit down 33% compared to last year, but it's revenues, not austerity that's driving the reduction. Considering the large amount of squawking going on about the level of "Hardships" caused by sequestration (with such a small amount of cuts, relatively speaking) it's fairly obvious that the driver of the recovery is going to have to be revenues increasing, not spending decreasing.

Deficit down 32% so far this year - May. 7, 2013


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