This is what happens when you're managing the toddler in chief.

I should add that he said ISIS was 100% defeated the other day. So no reason why they can't come home.

What!? And just ignore the threat of the ISIS zombie apocalypse? Are you nuts!

Armageddon is southwest of where this fighting is happening.

The last book of the new testament says Armageddon is where the final battle happens.

And it talks about forces from the North, south, east and west.

Russia and Turkey are the north. Iran is the east (and china) we are the west. and Saudi will be the south

Better hope this shit resolves or we may be talking end times.

Believe in the bible or not, its happening right now.

:rolleyes:

Trump has informed Congress that Turkey's invasion is a national emergency and he's ordered tariffs against Turkish steel and other sanctions.

Good fucking luck figuring out our national policies.

Getting impeachment news off the front page. That's it. That's our national policy.

For one, it wouldn't be based on what russia wants...

Is that where Harry Potter fought Voldemort?

Make fun all you want. But if/when it happens you MFers are going to be struggling with a shitty reality.

You cannot really believe this was that random of an event that we are here, right?

One in a multiple trillion or intelligent design? Hmmmm what is more believable?

The universe is so massive that as long as there's a mathematical chance of something happening, anything happening, that probability says that it's more than likely happening somewhere.

Riiiigggghhtt.We just happened to evolve multiple beings from a pool of sludge that cannot be replicated. Sure and man didnt land on the moon and pigeons arent real, Reagan killed those birds in 86 and replaced them with drones.

The chances you speak of are so miniscule and unbelievable that is laughable you believe it.

Its more likely aliens seeded this planet than the random bullshit you believe.

Do you think this is the first battle being fought in that region?

No but I believe Trump or Putin is the anti-christ. Or one is coming.

So I believe the Bible, which has a pretty accurate account of history in it, and seems to give us prophecy pretty well also. Or do i believe a bunch of dudes who think we came from a pool of sludge?

I dont know. Seems like Im onto something.

List of wars involving Israel - Wikipedia

^ at least 4 of these wars, covering only a single country, from only the last 60+ years meet the criteria you think are 1 in a million.

Leaders, leaders, leaders.

Its not the wars. Its the leaders in the world.

The late 60s and early 70s were about getting rid of the Isreali state. I get it.

But these leaders today and the world situation is a different thing.

Prophecy is a thing.

Do not discount the realiuty we live in. You guys think Trump is the devil, but wont acknowledge when he sets up the game.

One or the other.

Much of the end of the world stuff is a product of the 19th century, and isn't in any way definitive. Even if you only look at Revelation, the place isn't clear, with Megiddo maybe meaning a Palestinian city, but maybe also just being symbolic of a place where God defeats his enemies.

Now I do worry about people trying to push us towards an end of the world cataclysm, but I don't worry about God destroying most of us.

Does this mean we're getting another shitty Kirk Cameron movie?

First off keep it in church man.
Second off, calling non believers of your religious views “Mfers” tells me all I need to know about those beliefs.

John wrote Revelations in prison. It was prophecy given to him by God. It was not written in the 19th century.

Believe what you want, but you will be wrong.

Armageddon is a place not a thing or a time. And that is where it all goes down. But there will be 7 years of peace before it. At least world peace. Christians will be executed for evangelizing. Sound familiar?

So is the end times or the beginning of the end times?

Does this latest war signify the beginning of the end where people get sick of war and embrace a world leader.? Seems plausible.

These are scary times. Who would have thought Turkey would invade Syria? And Russia would oppose?

Who would have thought the Saudis and Iran would get away from their proxy war and start shooting at each other?

Whats next?

Dude, Im stuck here with you. When Christ calls his believers home Im screwed. Im a damn fine sinner.

Read the Bible. It is a historical account of us. I know you think it is fiction, but its not.

So it is true in its past, it must be true in its future.

Or we just came from a pool of sludge.

Duh.

You think Trump is more evil, in the bible's terms, than Adolf Hitler, Moamar Gadaffi or Saddam Hussein? Just because many of us believe Trump is the worst American president certainly doesn't put him in the category of murderous foreign dictators. It also seems worth mentioning that we're only talking about the last 100 years and there are 1900 more years of leaders you're not accounting for. I think your perspective is skewed. Consider that there are millions and millions of Christians who don't live in America, and Donald Trump has zero direct influence on their lives.

tarcone, go take your fight to someone who really cares or wants to listen or argue that stuff. I'm not taking away from you what you want to believe, but science is far more on my side than yours in this one.

Points well taken.

But the Middle east is more crazy then ever. In the 30s, 40s, and 50s it was a bunch of tribes bumbling around. Int he 60 and 70s it was a bunch of arabs with different beliefs hating on the Isrealites.

Now its the Turks and Russians battling in syria. Well, what is next? Israeli is next.

Iran and the Saudis will spill over into that with the Turks an Russia.

At no time in history have we had such a divrse and antagonistic batch of folks with lots of power fighting in the Middle East.

Prove to me how man came about I dare you

Dude, you got nothing. Nothing at all.

Wow, great response. So is that how man came about? Science? Or scientists discounting anything they cant prove, because they cant prove how man came about.

Come on man. Prove to me how we are here

Just because I'm not willing to be drawn into a conversation about the human condition, evolution and the science behind it tonight, doesn't mean that I'm wrong. A guy as determined to find the truth can motivate himself to look without too much difficulty.

You sound like a premillenial dispensationalist, and if so, that's a theology largely created in the 19th century. It's based on Revelation, but a lot of the beliefs aren't strictly spelled out in the Bible.

LOL.

Weak. Of course there is evolution. Micro evolution is a fact. Thats why humans are taller now than 100 years ago

But tell me how we cam about.

Your answer is sad. You dont want to talk evolution. I just agreed with you about evolution.

I want to know how man was formed. How did we come about? How did life on this planet come about? Why cant we replicate it?

Are you that stubborn in your beliefs you cant look at anything else bit your weak beliefs?

Shoot, I even suggested we were seeded by aliens. You wont even believe that.

How the hell did the Egyptians build those pyramids so precisely. According to science 100 years ago it was impossible.

Give me some answers.

Let's just say that at one point, I felt as you did. But going through the trauma of multiple drawn out miscarriages and the resulting bullshit that the church had to offer, coupled with the incredible hypocrisy of their belief system and I realized that organized religion and me were never coming back together again and that I felt incredible relief to be freed from it. I could finally be who I wanted to be and that was completely ok.

And.....


to the R's that are crying about "no rules" in the House inquiry--


Let's ask Merrick Garland for his opinion on how the rules work.

Sorry to hear that. Had a miscarriage myself.

And organized religion is a joke.

But the Bible had nothing to do with religion. It is a historical text as well as a text of what is to come.

Science is a man made creation. There is no reason for life on Earth except we were created by intelligent design.

Nothing else is provable. Nothing. Believe what you want. Feel free. But I believe in the Bible as it is historically correct and it has witnesses that are believable.

Are we at the end times? Sure seems close. But who knows. You and me and the others can make their peace with what ever they believe. But when the nukes start falling or the anti christ comes or Jesus comes, I hope we all made the right choice.

As a faithful Christian myself... I'm staying faaar away from this discussion.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Science is an advanced series of logical problem solving exercises. Problem solving and learning shows itself across multiple living organisms on the planet and multiple species.


But it's laughable that your defense (view) of the Bible is as a historical text and that it has nothing to do with religion. At best....at best, it's a recounting of a verbal history, mixed with fables and fairy tales from multiple cultures, told after hundreds of years and passed down through generations.



If the Nukes start falling it's only because of the failures of our species. After all it was humans who gave them to civilization, not God.

Still traumatized by watching Thief in the Night back in middle school. Cause nothing says repent like Jesus and Guillotines.

(100% not making the stuff about beheadings up)

Back to what this thread is about (please):
Joe Scarborough on Twitter: "The best quote to come from L’Affaire Ukrainienne yet:

“I am not part of whatever drug deal Sondland and Mulvaney are cooking up,� ~John Bolton

https://t.co/ospKuGdWze via @NYTimes"
Joe Scarborough on Twitter: "The best quote to come from L’Affaire Ukrainienne yet:

“I am not part of whatever drug deal Sondland and Mulvaney are cooking up,� ~John Bolton

https://t.co/ospKuGdWze via @NYTimes"

I could show you a video but I'd probably get banned for it.

It can't be often in John Bolton's life that he was the least crazy guy in the room. Must have been a strange feeling for him.

If you are truly interested, a good resource is The Blind Watchmaker by Richard Dawkins. Does a good job of explaining how complex life forms could arise from simple life forms over eons. But I suspect you just want to lash out because we are living in a scary time in history. The Armageddon isn't coming any more than the comets are coming to free the true believers. But we could well destroy ourselves and the rest of life on our planet. We're good at destruction.

Intelligent design isn't provable either bud.

Btw, did the aliens come about by intelligent design too? Or were they from a pool of sludge?

I do believe there is a higher being. There is no "proof" just faith. Its pretty clear to me to humans evolved, I don't see a contradiction as I don't take the Bible literally (e.g. 6+1 days of creation, world wide flood etc.).

Its just as easy for me to believe that everything was in place for Big Bang to occur and over billions of years, life evolved without a creator. It's just always been. If you believe that a higher being was needed to create all this wonder, I can respect that. I would then ask who created the higher being?

Oh FFS not the brand of bullshit I come here for

:rolleyes:

I just want to know if Jesus rode a dinosaur.

What the literal fuck?

Apparently Erdogan can’t figure ‘em out either.


Ragıp Soylu on Twitter: "Erdogan complains that he cannot understand what Trump really wants anymore:

“We can no longer follow Trump’s tweets. We cannot track them. There is a stark change in his stance compared to last night�"

He should release his version/transcripts of the call.

You mean the actual full word for word, or just some stuff he told his transcriber to say? Cause it was already perfect.

HAHAHAHAHA, worst take ever?

um, sorry for the hand grenade...


But... if we really want to break it down...

If you believe in a god that...
..."saves" people who only worship and praise said god; even if only in the last moments of life no matter how poorly they lived the other 99% of their life.
...condemns people to rot forever in the fires of hell for merely not believing in said god, no matter how good of a life that person lived (see point 1).
...is basically a preteen looking for reassurance as said god asks a believer to kill their own child just to prove their love.
...allows some of the most horrible events to happen, while allegedly performing miracles to "save" some believers from a horrible fate.
...whose "sacred word" was a book sanctioned by a king several centuries after the supposed events, a book which was created as a way to help the king control hit subjects.
...flooded the world, killing people and animals alike because said god didn't like what was happening (again, yet stood by while the nazis systematically killed millions).
...created the world with a "big red button" which he told the created ones to "not press"; a control thing?
...the world began with Adam, Eve and their two sons, one of which killed the other...think about it...
...wanted to toy with one of the believers by allowing his "rival" to do his worst to said follower.
...loved the chosen group of believers so much that they were forced to roam the desert for years.


Okay, said my piece, you may return to your regularly scheduled thread...

You win the discussion. :D

Unless we are seriously discussing Trump being the anti-Christ, may I suggest we move religious discussions to this other thread?

Does Religion Belong In Politics? - Front Office Football Central

Erdogan is refusing to meet with Pence and Pompeo.

At least we're respected again.

dola

WTF?


https://www.thedailybeast.com/anne-s...he-white-house

EDIT: possible spam link removed

Is that an actual link albion?

It's a youtube video.

To me right now it looks like a link to spam. Just checkin.

Great and unmatched wisdom

It was a youtube video from my end. But it was a Russian one, and I really don't want to err on the side of spam, so I removed it.

The short of it is--I don't think Trump is a very good president, and this was just one more data point.

The person who thought this was a good idea has the nuclear codes.

When you can only see the world through the prism of a D-list reality TV star it actually is a great idea.

I'm sometimes taken aback when I realize how much happier he would be right now if he had stayed on the fringe of politics and remained a celebrity/reality TV guy who occasionally appeared on Fox News as a guest to give the "business" perspective on things.

He's still have fame; he'd still have money; he'd still have attention; he'd still get to watch TV all day. But he wouldn't have all of these people attacking him and trying to hold him accountable for things.

dola: Apparently Taft also hated the presidency and would sometimes just leave the White House and go walking without telling anyone he was going just to get away from it.

Howard Stern, who knows him quite well, and hates him as president, said a while back Trump never wanted to be president. It was all a publicity stunt that just snowballed.

Wasn't there someone involved in his campaign that said the same thing.

I've told my wife many times that he wakes up every day and says "Who can I fuck with today just for the fun of it?"

There was a lot of smoke that the plan was to start a news network that spent four or eight years attacking everything Hillary did.

So we're going to impose sanctions that will devastate Turkey because they attacked them.

Good fucking luck figuring out our national policies.

Is there ANY chance (say, greater than 1%) that you could get enough GOP Senators to convict on an Article of Impeachment that was basically "fucking over the Kurds?"

Like, they may not be able to electorally survive if they support impeachment for corruption. But is there some National Security path they could walk that would let them get rid of him while still being on team MAGA/GOP?

I have long subscribed to this line of thought and there are a lot of signs that seem to point to it.

1-The outrageous statements, that at times seemed like intentional trolling, and others self sabotage so he could bow out, but never damaged his base support.
2-The complete lack of transition planning, that to this day still has not filled all of the open positions in the admin.
3-The near 80% turnover, again bur to rushed hiring and of course the frustration that anyone with half a fucking brain endures working for this clown.

As it went on and he realized he had a shot, it then became more about ego and just how much he could push the envelope. And here we are, with a very real chance we could have to deal with this insanity for another 4 years.

I don't think he really knows much about the region. Just parroting talking points from Erdogan.

I read this somewhere else, but this feels like an episode of Quantum Leap where Sam was sent back as Trump to ensure Trump gets impeached and removed, and complains to Al what more can he do to trigger the next leap.

Someone involved with the campaign said there was no vetting done prior to the election. That played a major role in the early turnover. The vetting process ended up being "is there child porn or anything obvious in this guys background".

They didn't expect to win and therefore didn't spend the money to create a viable list of candidates for key cabinet positions.

Yup, according to Wolfe in Fire & Fury, Ailes, Bannon and the denizens of Breitbart were going to put together a competing network vs Fox, and O'Reilly and Hannity were both purportedly on board to join up.

Then Ailes died.

And, yes, I have read an account or two that basically said Trunp and his campaign didn't think they had a snowball's chance in hell of winning, so they spent little time preparing for that prior to election day.

It's supposedly one of the reasons why Trump's campaign pursued building a Trump Tower in Moscow and kept up ties with Russian oligarchs-- Trump assumed he wouldn't win and didn't want to miss out on a potential business deal just because he was running for President.

From last week:

Felt the need to ask WH if this is actually real and it is. pic.twitter.com/bHyIFw6cvO

— Katie Rogers (@katierogers) October 16, 2019

And apparently he went completely off the rails in a meeting with congressional leaders at the White House regarding Syria after the resolution came out condemning his actions.

Clearly, Dems fell into his impeachment trap.

He better be a playable character in Civ7 with that kind of elegant banter to other leaders.

As a copywriter, I don't know whether to laugh, cry, hurl myself out a window, get drunk, snort coke, or some combination of things.

How the (expletive) did that pass the screeners?

Oh, God. The letter wasn't leaked, Trump handed it out at his meeting with congressional members to show how tough he has been.

Are you sure that's real?

I mean, at least it wasn't in comic sans.

and he left the Kurdish general who was doing the dirty work against ISIS out to dry by forwarding on the confidential letter.

Yes. The WH has acknowledged it is real.

Turkey's Erdogan 'threw Trump's Syria letter in bin' - BBC News

THE FANTASTICALLY PROFITABLE MYSTERY OF THE TRUMP CHAOS TRADES

In a better functioning country someone would be investigating these trades. It may not be someone in the government, but it's certainly fishy enough to check.

dola

Mulvaney has now moved the ball to the inevitable, of course we did a quid pro quo and that's fine.

Either this is part of the "if you admit your actions openly, then they don't look wrong" strategy.

Or [tin-foil hat], the GOP has decided Trump needs to go and they are all in on it (Pence, Mulvaney, McConnell, etc) and are laying groundwork.

dola: I hope it is the former, because coups (even intra-party) are not good for Democracy

What I read so far was aid was tied to Ukraine investigating the 2016 election, not Biden specifically. I don't see anything wrong about it based on what it says below. Trump asking Ukraine to investigate Biden and son specifically is a different and more problematic.

Mulvaney appears to confirm Ukraine aid was tied to probe into 2016 election - POLITICO

This "cease fire" in Turkey sounds more like a "surrender."

We did investigate the election and confirmed who was responsible for the hacking and misinformation campaign. The Ukraine thing is a weird boomer conspiracy that was debunked by our own government multiple times.

I don't disagree with your statement, its Trump trying to distract from his own tainted election. Nevertheless, Mulvaney did not turn on Trump and this specific quid pro quo does not rise to the level of impeachment.

I would like to believe that the President trying to leverage a foreign government to discredit his own intelligence agencies is a line we don't want crossed.

Not even a cease-fire. The Turks are being clear this is just a pause.

Look at the call memorandum, it's all the same thing to Trump.

Told you we'd fix this, we just left Istanbul yesterday......

Certainly an interesting time to visit. We booked this part of our trip long ago, and I certainly got some looks from people when I told them where we were going. Fascinating and beautiful place to visit though - I was mostly drawn by the history and the idea of going to a place culturally more different than home than I've ever been. Felt completely safe once you learn how to fend off the scammers.

They also do something security-wise that I'm surprised we haven't picked up in the U.S. yet - security to get INTO the airport. It's not full TSA style, just police and low- sensitivity metal detectors that don't care about your cell phone or belt. Of course Istanbul had a big terrorist attack at one of their airports a few years ago - and I always felt like the masses sitting there queing in security and ticket lines was a more vulnerable spot than the actual plane.