What exactly do you mean by "not accepting this"? Riots? A coup? Or just a long, drawn out process like we saw in 2000?

Oh, I agree absolutely. Experience, like a great many other traits, can be overblown in importance during campaigns.


Ah, my bad. Apologies.


I think anyone hates to see an election where one candidate gets the popular vote and the other gets the electoral vote. Bush/Gore in 2000 was bad, sure, but I think it was made far worse by the shambolic nature of the interminable recounts in Florida, combined with Katherine Harris' obvious partisan leanings during the recount.

In the end, though, if we end up with the situation you describe, Arles, it'll be far worse than 2000 because I think people cared a lot less in 2000. For most, there didn't seem to be a lot of difference between Bush and Gore. The economy was great, we were in no wars, and the President was seen to probably be a caretaker after Clinton.

I know I personally was annoyed by the result, but I figured that it was unlikely Bush could do a lot of harm to the country. Worst case scenario, I felt, was that we'd lose more seats on the Supreme Court. Boy was I wrong....


Well of course - life is somewhat circular. :D

Of all elections, considering Obama's home state, to try to claim that isn't a long history of shenanigans? C'mon DT, you're smarter than that, surely you aren't going to claim that Richard Daley was clean just because he wasn't charged?

Drawn out process and riots.

Jon: Here's the thing, if there was large scale voter fraud in the last couple elections, don't you think Bush and Gonzales etcetera would have made a huge freaking media circus about it?

clearly he's referring to a coup. angry liberals taking to the streets - disenfranchised minorities

shit man...it's the turner diaries!! :eek:

not an internet report, it was on TV with an interview with an eye witness who was ex military and took them on, and footage of one of the black panthers.

then throw em jail for years.

Hilarious if true.

Looks like the party of tolerance is already starting to talk about their agenda once they land full power:


TheHill.com - Schumer on Fox: Fairness Doctrine ‘fair and balanced’

Nope. When you win you don't bitch about turnovers & penalty discrepancy nearly as much.

Awww...thanks :D

I'm sure that happened as well. My only point of contention is the indifference numbers for Palin versus Biden or any other VP listed.

If Obama wins the popular and McCain wins the EV, and this becomes clear relatively quickly (i.e. from overnight returns), I think there will be riots.

If we have a lot of close votes like in 2000, I don't think I see the process dragging out quite as much. For one, it's not going to catch anyone by surprise this time, so the process & precedents for recounting are pretty well understood. For two, both sides are heavily lawyered up and ready to go to battle over it.

Regardless of how things go down (long/short), if Obama wins the popular and McCain wins the EV, I think there might even be a serious effort, for the first time in memory, to do away with the Electoral College.

Now I have to go dig up the examples. There was a pretty big case here in NC back in 2000 I think where an underage kid registered at one of those "Rock the Vote" events, then actually voted (parents decided to "make a point"), and it got caught later in an audit.

I'll see if I can dig up the article. All my searches are being burned by the "Vote" links on everybody's freakin' web page, so I'm getting all these underage drinking/driving/sex articles rather than finding the underage voter...

Just because I am bored. Here are the top posters in this thread. I had to go down pretty far to get my name on the list :)

Mizzou B-ball fan	782
Flasch186	677
JPhillips	587
larrymcg421	448
DaddyTorgo	382
molson	371
JonInMiddleGA	328
ISiddiqui	309
Arles	277
flere-imsaho	270
Dark Cloud	237
ace1914	229
Ronnie Dobbs2	220
SFL Cat	220
Buccaneer	215
SirFozzie	199
sterlingice	191
GrantDawg	182
Vegas Vic	177
Big Fo	155
Galaxy	126
Mac Howard	115
albionmoonlight	109
Fighter of Foo	106
cartman	104
BrianD	96
Tigercat	84
Axxon	80
Butter_of_69	79
Galaril	74
Warhammer	72
CamEdwards	71
NoMyths	70
Kodos	67
st.cronin	66
Swaggs	65
Jas_lov	64
sabotai	61
Alan T	59
Passacaglia	58
lungs	56
Noop	53
lordscarlet	52
Maple Leafs	50
Chief Rum	49
Dutch	48
miked	44
Crapshoot	43
Crim	40
Fidatelo	38
Dr. Sak	37
astrosfan64	35
KWhit	34
QuikSand	31
timmynausea	31
Daimyo	29
DanGarion	27
Toddzilla	26
Subby	26
stevew	26
Radii	26
gstelmack	25
Neon_Chaos	24
King of New York	24
Klinglerware	24
Grammaticus	23
panerd	23
samifan24	22
chesapeake	22
rowech	21
Anthony	20
Deattribution	19
digamma	19
VPI97	18
Jon	18
Groundhog	18
fantom1979	17
SackAttack	17

He clarified it later on, or in a different thread.

Still, though, saying that clear evidence of widespread voter registration fraud exists, but denying possibility of significant voting fraud is contortionism.

Yeah, but I think the point is that this hasn't happened in decades, even in Chicago.

Vote early & vote often.

but it got caught in an audit hmm? so the system works. or did it get caught after everything had been tallied and all.

Wow...I'm 5th? Really? Go me.

LOL @ my new signature

LOL. If I didn't know better, I'd almost think you believe that.
Increased subtlety (or even decreased frequency) doesn't mean doesn't happen.

I sent out a message to my boss and the rest of our team last week that stated that due to Wisconsin law giving every worker 3 hours off to vote, I was going to vote 3 times and take the day off.

Welcome to the new era, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Agreed.

Is your boss a Democrat or a Republican? This could have some influence on whether your offer is accepted. :D

I am completely against the fairness doctrine and hope it doesn't get reintroduced. At the same time, I would also like all the censor happy groups to shut the fuck up and let me watch what I want on TV.

I think an Obama WH, Dem Senate and republican house would be the best recipe for the next 8 years. I don't know if that will be possible in 2010 though.

Jon: Please. with the amount of divisionary stuff the Bush folks have done, they'd have run with it for MONTHS.

And as someone said last page, while I do not wish for any version of the Fairness Doctrine to be imposed, I cordially invite the PTC/censor groups to kindly choke on my fuck, as my friend Chris would say.

Eh, they've been pretty much a disappointment to me in so many ways in the past severa years, I simply don't have the confidence you do.

You don't bring that up because you risk bringing up some of your own dirty tactics. If you won, you won and you don't want to look into it

SI

Can't find the article to find the exact details. But hey, you asked for one example. I was one of those that used to argue true/false questions with teachers because I could come up with obscure exceptions that would drive them nuts :D

My concern with voter fraud in this country is that it is too easy to impersonate a registered voter who is not actually intending to vote. Florida used to demand a driver's license, but here in NC I'm lucky if they even ask me to recite my address (which isn't much of a test).

I believe this has far more effect at the local level than it does at a national level. It's easy to find instances of voter counts messed up.

More votes counted than people visited polls: WTIC News/Talk 1080 - Newspaper: More Votes Cast Than Voters in Bridgeport Primary?

Dead registered voters voting:
http://www.texaswatchdog.org/2008/10...harris-county/

Just a few examples. At a national level it all evens out.

I think we are better off when the majority in Congress differs from the party in the White House. It's makes it harder for either party to push their agenda and look more towards compromise.

Hey, isn't it against FOFC law to publish post counts?

I think PETA would have a problem with some of the things you want to see done to donkeys by female midgets :lol:

yes please. although i like to see balance within the legislature - i don't want to see one side with a fillibuster-proof majority either, because i want there to have to be compromise to get things done. One said narrowly ahead is okay though.

It just doesn't make sense to commit fraud through registration tricks. In Indiana, based on 2004 turnout, 23000 voters would have to vote through fraudulent registrations to add just 1% to the tally. Do you really think there are 23000 people willing to risk felony arrest for such a small change in the outcome? All the while these 23000 people never talk about their plan?

Voter fraud is much easier and more likely at the ballot box/voting machine level. At least there a single person could conceivably change hundreds of votes at a time.

The real fights that make a difference are over access questions, voter ID, polling hours, absentee requirements, etc. Trying to rig a national election through individual votes in our current media environment is unlikely in the extreme.

Phony Virginia Flier Culprit Found

The Virginia Flier telling R's to vote today and D's to vote tommorrow was a "joke that got out of hand" and no charges will be filed.

I still don't like the "stealing elections" arguments, but news out of Milwaukee, Wisconsin (one of the few blue areas in the state - big enough to shift the whole state) is that the special police task force put in place to deal with potential fraud has been mostly replaced at the last minute by a bunch of rookies. At least one 30-year veteran of the force just retired "in disgust"...so the report goes.

hey guys, i just got a text message that said due to all the long lines, people planning to vote for obama should vote tomorrow.

just thought i'd let everybody know. guess i'll just go sit in the tavern.

These things have been going around every election day since I was a kid, so I dunno why all of a sudden now they're getting all sensitive about it. If someone this year doesn't know when election day is, they probably shouldn't be voting.

Why? They better accept it if it happens.

It's like the guy on halloween that puts his head in a cut out box and writes on it....Free Mammograms. Then women getting pissed because they were duped.

FiveThirtyEight.com: Electoral Projections Done Right: Today's Polls and Final Election Projection: Obama 349, McCain 189

Final predictions and polls up.

The statisical model gives McCain a 1.1% chance of winning.

I don't think it's that people are getting sensitive about it all of a sudden. I think they are getting more news coverage now. I've heard about this for at least the past 2 presidential elections when I don't remember hearing much on the news about it before.

I will agree that if you don't know that today is the last day to vote in this election, especially with all of the media coverage that this election is getting, you've got issues.

"So you're saying there's a chance!!!!"

It's also been brought up every election day, DC, so I don't see that there's anything "all of a sudden" about the sensitivity...

But will they accept a banning?

I'm not sure. I wonder if Obama will come back bigger and stronger than evar!