Bear with me, this might be a little long. I tried to break people down a bit more. I found a few more holes in my thoughts on some people after reading through the entire thread...


Feel ok + vouches: (This section is for people who I caught things that I felt were good hints, plus vouched for by other people. Probably my most trusted group, however with possible conversions, trust is always relative)

1. Barkeep49 - visited by Bulletsponge (according to swaggs). Sndvls also backed Barkeep strongly when Izulde voted for him. It is pretty apparent Sndvls knew Barkeep's identity.

7. saldana - Cronin is backing Saldana and I caught a few other things that makes me feel a little better about him now.

20. Dodgerchick - visited Izulde, which Izulde confirmed. | maybe vouched for by sndvls in one of his discussions with Hoops and Blade where he didn't list Dodgerchick as one of the people who he would vote for.

--------------------------------
Feel ok , no vouches:

12. path12 - Barkeep knows where he lives but not if he is good. He has given the most early hints of specific normal villager roles of anyone, but can anyone vouch for him?

14. LoneStarGirl - First to mention the 3 shillings a day when DaddyTorgo mentioned he got 4 per day. maybe vouched for by sndvls in the same list as Dodgerchick.

17. dubb93 - first to mention opium den from my hints , I feel pretty good about him. He backed Hoops early on, but no one has vouched for Dubb. Hoops is his backing of you recipricol, do you vouch for him too?

19. hoopsguy - Has dropped many solid hints and with Mr.W helped give us Jack the Ripper yesterday.
------------------------------------
No feel + other's vouches:

2. DaddyTorgo - visited Izulde (according to Mr.W), only he and Blade have seperate money earning conditions from other "normal" roles.

3. Schmidty - Cronin is vouching for Schmidty, but it seemed odd to me that he didn't know the point of money in the game, where almost everyone else deals with it daily.

5. bulletsponge - visited barkeep (according to Swaggs) , Barkeep and he both confirm this. My main hesitation with Bullet is he hasn't given too many good hints about his role and he voted for fouts after the 5 shilling comment, which with his supposed role, I would think would make him not want to vote for him. Maybe it was just a retaliation vote, but thats silly to make to someone you think is good for just that reason.

13. st. cronin - maybe vouched for by sndvls in his previous list | showed up to help Mr.W when Lathum didn't, plus Mr.W feels pretty good about him.

24. Izulde - (mr.Wednesday, Dodgerchick, Fouts all vouched for him. ) Visited by DaddyTorgo (according to Mr.W). I don't have a good feel for him at all, but has more people vouching for him than any other player in the game.

Others: (These are the people who I have my weirdest thoughts about)

4. Blade6119 - He claims he has a ominus role title with a possibly WW sounding name but claimed to be good. Some negatives are that his urchins were obviously very wrong about barkeep, he makes a different amount of money from other "normal roles". Was inexplicably out the night after spending all of his money. The goods for him: showed up to help Mr.W. when Lathum didn't, and Mr.W and Saldana both feel good about him. THis probably will start all kinds of drama.. but the thought I have been playing with for a bit now is that Blade is Faigin. He trumped everyone's orphan bid yet still was out that night. He didn't jump on the opium den or prostitute threads early, but was first to buy an orphan.

15. MrWednesday - He seems to be where all of the action is. Has vouched for many people, but hasn't had any vouch for him. Refused to state his role when pressed and on the line to be lynched. My gut instinct is that he is good though, and I don't really have any desire to press further to lynching him right now.

21. Raiders Army - tends to trust hoops, blade, barkeep, any of you three have trust back for him or care to vouch for him? I looked back to try to find out why I had him in my feels ok group from early on. I couldn't honestly find what made me feel that way. I found he came out early on right after the roles went out and said a comment about getting 20 gold pieces to hire a prostitute with... the only problem is we all got shillings, not gold pieces.

22. Swaggs - I know the least about Swaggs of anyone in the game, thus my vote for him this morning. Looking back however, Sndvls had him in the group of people who he didn't want to vote for that day. Its very risky to assume interpretation of dead people's posts, but I'm not sure if this means Swaggs visited Sndvls or not. The mistakes Swaggs made might have just been due to haste and lack of participation instead of shadiness. Can anyone else vouch for swaggs other than possibly a dead person?

Yea I saw the whole thing. I can confirm that Izulde is a "whore" as it says that exactly in what I saw. Izulde was arrested. I was out looking for a prostitute in Cavell and Bishopsgate last night. I found Izulde, but her arrest soured me on looking further and once I returned to Bishopsgate I didn't really bother looking anymore.

VOTE NO LYNCH IZULDE

Unvote Swaggs

Vote Raiders Army

I think this is the approach I would rather take today. i would love to know if anyone can vouch for either swaggs or Raiders.. so far I don't have much.

As for Izulde, he has alot of people vouching for him including one person who is dead and known good. I also don't obviously know what the inspector might know or assume about him though.. If he started as a prostitute then his being bad now would mean he would have been converted.

I don't know if I'm really in the mood to look for converted people yet when we still have original bad guys in a possible small group of people to choose from.

I guess if the inspector knows something I dont about Izulde, I will leave it up to him to decide if its worth outing himself to say what it is. As it is now, I don't see why I would want to lynch Izulde though.

AlanT, I don't understand from that post why you feel good about path. I mean, I don't have any read on him at all, so where does yours come from?

I would expect that if Izulde was, in fact, good, that there would be at least some pressure from the bad guys to get him lynched. That there is zero pressure really worries me.

He's given a ton of info about the same role many of us have before anyone else has. He either is good like us, or he is bad with the same role.

THe only thing keeping him from my higher trust group is that no one has vouched for him yet. He actually is the specific person that caused me to ask the question of the prostitutes earlier asking if they typically find out if their john is good or not from the visit. Barkeep was unable to tell that about path, whereas he was about others. This troubles me some.. but I still think Raiders is a better choice since just like Path he has no vouches, but he has provided much less to make me confident about him.

As for Izulde, I don't see why the bad guys would push for his lynch without any evidence to lean on. Usually bad guys let the good guys do the work for them. I would find someone just jumping out and voting to lynch Izulde without any reason would be pretty suspicious.

I realize I make a better villager than wolf, but when I've been a wolf in these situations it's all about making sure that guy gets lynched. See the Tombstone game, for example.

That I am the only one wondering if it's a good idea to lynch Izulde has my radar pinging hard.

Don't mean to throw a monkey wrench in this whole Izulde thing, but I find it very convenient that he has ZERO lynches. I mean it's so easy it doesn't make sense. Cronin, do you know something maybe some of us don't?

Just thinking aloud I guess.

Alan, buying orphans is wrong! You're supposed to rent!

lol, just noticed your post cronin

It was too bad that Barkeep didn't get a read on me, hopefully the other prostitute I visited last night did. I'd also like to point out that I was part of the group that helped pick apart the discrepancies in Lathum's story, and was also the first person to vouch for Barkeep. I think all my actions this game have pretty clearly been in the interests of good.

I've been out each night: Night 0 lookin' for love in Commercial and Whitechapel. Night 1 at the opium den. Last night getting some in Cavell and Bishopsgate.

I do not, but I have a small suspicion that the chief inspector does.

Note: I am not the chief inspector. If I were, I would make the case for Izulde based on whatever logic led me to arrest him. But it wouldn't be totally surprising if the inspector didn't make a case, hoping the arrest would be enough.

Alan, I have not seen Dubb on any night up to this point. So I can't vouch for him. I do have him as someone I think is likely to be a normal villager - as I understand that role - based on his coming forward with information on the opium mechanic before it had been discussed. If his version of events didn't set off alarm bells for other "normals" then I lean towards trusting him.

Cronin, I've felt Path was likely to be good from pretty early on in the game - he and Brian commented early on Day 1 that the "5 shilling" fee for prostitutes was unlikely to be disputed. He seemed to be near the front of normal good guy information at just about every turn. And I can vouch for his district last night.

Others:
- no feel for RA
- I have Blade coupled with another player based on night activity. Alternate suggestion is that two different players have similar actions and both directed them at same target last night.

On Izulde, I knew the identities of three prostitutes. Barkeep says there are four. Izulde is one I did not know for sure, but Fouts said he was with a prostitute on Night 0 and cited a different district that the one I was in to collect my Night 0 information on three prostitutes. Fouts backed Izulde during the Day 1 vote. Chief has said that prostitutes start the game as good. Others have vouched for spending time with Izulde since then - I think this is pretty open and shut (insert punchline here).

No Lynch Izulde

DC's vouch for him is good enough for now. although why did the CI jail him? and im betting Blade does have a big role in this game.

Note Raiders Army

hes hanging way too outta site. makes my suspisious

( yes i know i dont need to be told im out of site too)

Path, I'm curious what would happen if you DIDN'T go out, and just stayed home. Do you know?

vote Raiders Army
lynch Izulde

Following AlanT again on the RA bit, and I'm just too uneasy about the Izulde sequence to let it go.

dola

thats Vote Raiders Army

I have good reason to believe Path's accounts for his Night 1 and Night 2 activities. Unless the bad guys can execute multiple actions during a night (opium + kill, hire prostitute + kill) he is accounted for on both nights that murders transpired.

I think thats fair. Remember I was the first one trying to get Izulde lynched the first time. I only backed off because someone who i felt was good (Fouts) backed him. My main point here is I just dont see whatever the Chief inspector saw. It would be quite a feat in my mind to see Izulde as bad other than possible conversion at this point.

I know the answer to this as I did this one night. However for once, I'll let someone else answer before me. :)

Well, in my case, I could have used an action on Night 0, but chose not to. I didn't receive a PM or anything... so it's like nothing happened.

Crap, I just realized what time it was... I'll be off for a bit.

As far as I know, I'd just stay home. I'll be doing that tonight because I spent all my money so I guess I'll find out for sure then.

Since the board seems really slow today.. some other thoughts I was having...

In huge games with this many people, its really hard for the bad team to win in a "balanced" game due to so much activity and how easy it is to get information. You almost have to give the bad guys an unfair advantage in order to make it more balanced, or give them a shot to win.

I'm wondering where that is in this game. We saw the three kills in one night, but so far it was only a one night thing. It appears like they might not be in communications with each other due to the kills during night 1, but thats just a guess. That would make things even tougher for them.

They have to have some advantages somewhere.. Things crossing my mind, most of which I've mentioned before... Bad guy with the common londoner role so able to fit right in with the rest of us... Conversions (or multiple conversion attempts).. Good people with bad sounding roles (such as Jonathan) to cause us to waste days or time.. Good guys getting faulty information...

Right now its feeling way too easy to form CoTs.. there has to be some catch, right?

I've been wondering the same thing the past couple days. I don't know that I have an answer though. I feel almost certain that there are bad guys who have the same abilities as Londoners.

Have the people who visited the Opium Den learned the identity of a Den Dealer? I don't need to know who it is, just wondering if that role is in the game as I have not set foot there so far.

My time in the opium den was nothing more than a waste of money. The only thing I learned while there is that Chief shares my thoughts to who the best baseball team of all time is.

Dola, Hoops can you speak for if prostitutes typically find out if the people who visit them are good or not? iE: on a typical night do you find out so and so visited and are good, or is it more random?

Alan, I've never acknowledged one way or another what my role is in the game. It sounds like you think I'm some kind of a woman of loose morals!

In terms of the prostitue role, the way I understand it the information that is revealed varies from customer to customer. For example, Barkeep learned that Bulletsponge was good. But the information can include other details, such as the home district or whereabouts on previous evenings.

I know of at least one case where there is a now-dead Londoner who did not show up as good/evil when visiting a prostitute. So the fact that faction information doesn't come out should not be taken as a sign of guilt.

I got no useful information at all in my visit, nor any info of anyone working there or visiting at the time.

Yeah, I was working more off of assumptions. As far as I am aware, you and I have not had any interactions or dealings this game. The only people I am pretty sure are prostitutes are Barkeep and Izulde. I mainly was curious regarding Path. I feel pretty good that he is on the good side, the only troubling thing was barkeep's inability to say he was good for sure. I guess I'll have to wait till barkeep gets on later to confirm that.

Alan, as far as I can tell Path has been with two prostitutes who have not been able to confirm that he is good. But unless he can commit multiple actions (opium + kill, prostitute + kill) he is accounted for on both Nights 1 and 2.

That helps a bit more.. I am feeling better that Raiders is the best choice for today, as so far no one has come close to vouching for him. The now dead Sndvls was very clear that he didn't have any info on him. None of the alive prostitutes are coming to his defense either.

My big problem though is assuming Raiders is bad, what is the next step from there to the next candidate. I don't really have anyone that jumps out at me like Raiders does. The next closest is Swaggs, but I am 50/50 on him.

Alan, I'm not all that worried about next steps - we'll have another night of information to process. People will make more reveals, for better or worse. I just want to make the best play that we can for today.

I'm looking to see how 1-2 people who have yet to show up today, or post meaningful thoughts, play before putting my vote on the RA bandwagon. I'm fine voting in this direction, but I also do not have a sense of urgency about getting the vote in right this minute as the vote is based on lack of information more than it is anything individually damning.

Thats cool. Its just been 1/2 way through the day and I haven't seen much movement to point us elsewhere other than the brief talk about Izulde earlier. Yesterday we waited so long to talk about Lathum, that it actually happened after I had left for the day. Just hoping we can get something beneficial going one way or another before today passes us by too :)

Unlike last night, I should be around before lynch tonight, so can move my vote as needed. I just hate wasting the entire day without any good conversation :)

OK, lets bat around a few names then if we are looking for conversation:

Barkeep, Izulde, ???? = prostitutes
Daddy - special role, with Izulde during arrest yesterday?
Schmidty - vouched for by Cronin
Blade - special role, looking for his version of last night's events at some point
Saldana - vouched for by Cronin, normal?
Path - normal? seems to have been occupied Nights 1 and 2
Cronin - special role, trusting him for now
LSG - ???
MrW - special role, would like to hear from him today as well
Dubb - normal?
Alan - normal?
Hoops - ???, had decent amount of info this game
DC - normal?
RA - ???, subject of current discussion and votes
Swaggs - normal?, less "conclusive" than some of others slated as normal

I don't have Bullet listed above, but he was vouched for by BK.

My biggest question marks at the moment are Raiders, Swaggs, and LoneStarGirl. There are a couple of the "specials" that I would like to understand better but at the moment I'm actually more concerned with the people I can't assign any meaning to their role.

Maybe not cleared, but the COT he posted was very solid.

We have three different persons who have independently ID'd Izulde as a working girl. DC was a customer in Bishopsgate in night 1 (I observed her there as well but refrained from mentioning it on advice from hoops, I saw SnDvls working there as well), DT was a prospective customer in Cavell last night.

That's over and above Fouts, who presumably was a customer during night 0.

Copied your list with my thoughts for each in blue!

Barkeep, Izulde, ???? = prostitutes
Sndvls (now dead) and I assumed hoops for #4. Not sure who 4th is now.
Daddy - special role, with Izulde during arrest yesterday?
Isn't typical common londoner role like Blade. Does seem to possess ability to visit prostitutes as Mr.W states DT visited Izulde.
Schmidty - vouched for by Cronin
Originally seemed to hint to be an orphan, never answered my question regarding that. Has no idea what money is used for. No possible clue what his role is.
Blade - special role, looking for his version of last night's events at some point
Originally assumed he was a normal londoner changing stuff up to try to trap folks. As he continued I believe this less and he's one of the ones I wonder if they could be a bad guy with some of the pieces of the ordinary villager's roles. My gut tells me possibly Faigin.
Saldana - vouched for by Cronin, normal?
I believe Saldana is a normal londoner also.
Path - normal? seems to have been occupied Nights 1 and 2
I also feel Path is a normal londoner
Cronin - special role, trusting him for now
No clue to his role. Both Mr.W and Sndvls seemed to vouch for him some. Not sure if Sndvls was vouching for him or just trusting him at the time though.
LSG - ???
I feel normal londoner role.
MrW - special role, would like to hear from him today as well
No idea on his role, seems to have been near action every night.
Dubb - normal?
I feel is normal.. wish someone could vouch for him.
Alan - normal?
normal london role
Hoops - ???, had decent amount of info this game
DC - normal?
normal london role
RA - ???, subject of current discussion and votes
no idea, and no one has vouched for him.
Swaggs - normal?, less "conclusive" than some of others slated as normal
claims to be normal londoner. I'm 50/50 on believing him.

I can't vouch for LSG, but I haven't seen anything to make me think she isn't a normal londoner. When brought up in the topic yesterday with Blade, Hoops and Sndvls, Sndvls wasn't willing to vote for LSG making me think LSG might have visited Sndvls at some point. LSG tossed out one hint before anyone else about the normal londoner role and my take is she just has been too busy to give the game alot of attention and isn't bad, just preoccupied this game.

Alan, could you refresh my memory as to who's vouched for you at night? I though someone had but can't for the life of me remember who.

The trouble is, multiple people came out quickly to say that Izulde was a prostitute. It would be risky for a wolf to try to fly in the face of that. Plus, it always catches attention when you push the lynch of an innocent, better to wait until one or two people have started in on it and then go hard afterwards.

That's not conclusive, by any means, but I think it's a reasonable alternative to your hypothesis.

I agree with your concern about the lack of a case for the arrest, though... Izulde had been vouched for at least once at that point. The trouble is, if it's not an NPC arrest, a role reveal would be required to indicate the reason behind it.

Unless it's Lestrade (ntndeacon) who ordered it, in which case we'll "never" know the reason...


("never" in quotes because we will know after the game is over in that case.)

This was my working job list on what I thought were people's jobs. I could be wrong on Hoops, could be wrong on others. just my thoughts:

Prostitutes: Barkeep, Izulde, Hoopsguy
Common Londoners: Saldana, Path, LSG, Dubb, Alan, DC, Bulletsponge, Swaggs???
Common Londoner variant roles: DaddyTorgo, Blade
Unknown entirely: Schmidty, Cronin, MrW, RA

Just to be clear, I have not actually "vouched for" anybody, and I don't think I will be able to. I just feel like I know the status of certain people based on interactions either in the thread or because of night actions. So, saldana or Schmidty could be bad - but I think it's unlikely.

No one has vouched for me at night, and I fully welcome someone to come out with any negative information about me :)

I backed off of Schmidty because of your vouching. Without that, he is in the same boat as Raiders Army today for me. I feel ok about Saldana I think.

I completely understand that. But, I won't vote for Schmidty, not today.

As I said, I went to opium den on Night 1. I slept on a couch and had a vivid dream in which I saw bullet and Barkeep negotiating and then going into a room together. When I woke up, I was not sure if it was real or not, but it seemed real. Afterwards, I watched a porno.



I cannot speak to your experiences in the opium den, so I don't know what to tell you. That was the only night I have visited and I had what appeared to be a very real dream. If there is an opium den operator, he could probably vouch for me, but I wouldn't ask him/her to at this point.


Just because you haven't had any luck doesn't mean it is not possible. If it were 100% reliable for everyone, then we normal Londoners would have a pretty big advantage.


I believe I said areas or zones of the district. I have not hired a prostitute, nor have I engaged in any secret talks with them.


1) I have not visited any prostitues, so no they cannot. I spent my money on the opium den the first night and tried, unsuccessfully, to use my money elsewhere last night.
2) I do not want to violate the rules here, so approaching this carefully: I feel confident that, if I were to look for a prostitute, I may have to look in more than one area and that I would benefit from things other than her services.

I am just a simple tanner trying to make my daily wage, but I am good in this game.

Of the people whose role I don't know, the vast majority have been a john (or claimed it, or attempting it) or been to the opium den. Offhand, the remaining ones who haven't are saldana, LSG, RA, and Alan.

Right? Did I miss any of the four above claiming to seek comfort in their vices, or one of the proprietors identifying them as a customer?

I'm actually not trying to make a point that they're bad guys, necessarily, as I have no reason to think that Jekyll or Moriarty would be beyond visiting a prostitute, for example, and equally, there are a couple of as-yet-unidentified roles that would not be particularly likely to be customers.