They need to get rid of the baby and Hershel. I can't stand characters that are missing body parts (merle bugged me too and the gov's eye - grrrr) and the baby is just a burden at this point.

Aren't there some theories floating around that the baby might play a role in the "everyone is infected" situation?

This is freaking awesome, but it does contain spoilers if you go there.

http://imgur.com/a/qIIsm/noscript#0

That's awesome

Yeah, that's now on my FB wall. Great linkage.

My son (at 9:17p) just asked an interesting question: who dropped off the load of walkers in the van a few episodes ago?

I don't know what to make of that. Feels very uneven, lots of stuff doesn't make sense.

yeah that was just kind of...meh.

I'm really annoyed that the Governor thing wasn't resolved. they will drag that out forever now

I thought it was actually a very good season finale.

Great: Carl's speech to Rick, Carl's decision to shoot (dude was so gonna try to grab the little kid), the look on Herschel's face when Carl shot

Good: "I know how to work the safety", Tyreese's inability to hit the broad side of a barn, Milton being a gutsy bastard after being gutted, bible verse in highlighter (left for Gov intentionally?)

Bad: extending Gov storyline feels forced as well as a bit like we got gypped tonight, the trend of redemption-upon-death resolutions, the decision to turn the prison into a combination old folks home/daycare

Okay, Talking Dead just got prank called

I heard that. That was weird.

I believe the baby is carrying the antibodies necessary to defeat the virus. The key to overcoming the zombie apocalypse will be love ... and sex. Lotsa sex. Just my theory.

Haven't watched yet but hearing that they didn't kill the Governor really pisses me the fuck off. He suuuuuucks.

I read all about how surprising and great the end was and this episode ended the Woodbury storyline. I saw nothing surprising and nothing great. I thought the end of Woodbury meant the end of the Governor.

I would have rather seen them do something better with the ~15 minutes of Andrea trying to get the pliers and Milton fighting off death, but overall pretty solid.

I've made it pretty clear that I think they can do a lot more with the prison story line, so I'm pleased to see that possibility. It is easy to get annoyed about Rick's group not closing up shop and abandoning the prison, but they have been out in the elements and had to survive exposed for 8-12 months, so I think it is pretty reasonable that they want to hold on to it.

I like that the governor is still out there. He lost most of his muscle, but there is no vagueness about how evil he is now. Maybe he hooks up with another group of survivors? Maybe it is midway through next season or not at all? He's still out there somewhere.

I also like that they added some new faces and it is interesting that they are the weak/young/old/ill. Some of my favorite parts from the graphic novel were when they tried to re-establish some sense of humanity and community. I think they are set up to try for that early next season (before they sweep the legs out from under them, like it always happens for Rick).

I agree with all of this.

For me, I'd add

Great: Bye Andrea. Welcome to the group Tyrese.

Bad: Martinez and the black dude just hopping back into the truck with the Gorvernor and riding off after he slaughters his own people. They were apprehensive, but it wasn't enough.

Worse: WHY CANT YOU DEVELOP CARL ON CAMERA. Its the same as my complaint between season 2 and season 3, Carl magically became a badass. I liked the new Carl, but the show just skipped over any sort of transformation, and there was potentially a ton of good material to redeem the "where's Carl?" days.. Now this episode starts with Carl pissed off at Rick, we don't find out why for 20 minutes, and when we do its more than just a fight because Carl wanted to be on the front lines, its a fundamental and dramatic shift in Carl's character, it appears to have happened overnight, and we didn't get to see any of it. I just don't like it. I liked Carl's speech to Rick, I liked what they did with him shooting the kid and the aftermath of that... but I just don't understand why they continue to have Carl change so much, so quickly, off camera, and expect that to just be okay.


Even with the rest of the episode being pretty solid and interesting, not closing out the governor's storyline is too big a strike for me to call it a good season finale, I think. It wasn't bad, but it leaves me feeling uneasy about the whole thing, and more than a bit unsatisfied.


EDIT: Added Tyrese to the "great" category, forgot about that.

Random oddity I just uncovered: David "the Governor" Morrissey is married to Sigmund Freud's great-granddaughter.

Also, Morrissey is British (like Rick and Maggie).

I think it was pretty shocking in the fact that....

1) Carl shot that kid point-blank. Honestly, I think it was totally justified. He didn't drop his weapon. He could over-powered Carl when Carl reached for the weapon. I am surprised Hershel didn't see that.
2) The Governor killing his own people. I didn't see that.
3) The way Andrea died. When she cut herself free, I thought she would survive.

Next season's storyline will be interesting. At this point, they can pretty much do anything with the Governor arc.

I guess I saw Carl shooting the kid differently. If the kid is scared and surrendering, as Herschel suggested, then you drop the weapon and don't keep inching towards the 10 (?) year old pointing the gun at you.

The way it went down, with Herschel condemning him to Rick and then Carl giving that speech to Rick would have made more sense if they had shown the scene differently. That the victim (?) drops his gun right away and then Carl blows him away. The way I saw it, Carl was absolutely justified to shoot him, even excluding the logistics of how they would have had a one-legged man carrying a baby and a ten year old manage the prisoner on the way back to camp. No speech required about how hard the world is ... he just shot someone who was a clear and present danger, who did not yield his weapon when asked to do so.

what was the deal with Carl's gun? that was the oddest looking thing I've ever seen.

so, the Governor runs away and all his people are gone so you can a) take over the heavily fortified Woodbury and live in relative comfort or b) take everyone bAck to the busted prison and sleep on cots. good choice, guys!

I don't normally notice this stuff, but the editing seemed really off in this one. Not sure why, but it was extremely ungainly in parts.

Andrea is gone which is good, but it seems like they've just added a bus load full of Andreas. And they have become less mobile. They need to start moving and traveling the country.

Carl's gun apparently has a homemade silencer (made from a hollowed out, aluminum baseball bat).

Rick has one made from a maglite.

That was the first thing I thought about too. I think prison has defensibility over Woodbury but I think Woodbury has food, supplies etc. that would trump the prison.

The episode was just ok for me. Not wrapping up the Governor storyline was a big disappointment for me. To me, the Woodbury thing is dragging on (sort of how the farm in season 2 dragged on.

My random thoughts from the episode:
Milton's stabbing has to be one of the worst and most overused ways in TV/Movies to kill an ex-friend (hand them a weapon and turn it on them)

Why was Allen so slow in trying to kill the Governor?

Bye Andrea, haven't ever cared for you. You picked the wrong side every single time.

Welcome Tyrese. Should be interesting to see him contribute despite the fact that he can't shoot to save his life.

I am tired of Carl. I don't know why, but I find him annoying and his storyline seems forced to me.

I find the episodes where they discuss the disease and show flashbacks from right after the apocalypse to be interesting and they have gone way from both (CDC, Atlanta getting bombed, etc)

I was disappointed by the finale as well. It really didn't do anything to drive excitement for the next season. No grand resolution, no new danger, no real feeling of a chapter end.

I also hoped for more for Milton's end. I wanted a noble sacrifice, or an attempt toward leadership by taking out (or trying) the governor. Instead, we saw him get beat up and make an attempt on the governor when weak and having no other choice.

The Andrea end was decent. We didn't get an improbable last-second escape with everything being fine. She did fight off the danger, but it still killed her. Seems realistic.

I agree with Carl needing to be developed on-screen. The path he is taking is reasonable, but we just see the steps and not the transitions. His killing of the boy was decently done. I was waiting for the cliche fake-surrender, and was surprised by the cold-blooded killing. Carl and Herschel both had the boy covered, and the boy had a pump-action shotgun. No way the boy got out of the situation, and I do think he was in the process of surrendering. It may not have been completely cold-blooded, but it was not yet necessary.

Ditto.

I predicted that Milton and Glenn would die before the start of the episode. I batted .500, but I got a chance to pinch-hit the death predictions and knocked it out of the park. More on that later...

I'm not pleased with the Governator still being out there. Getting fragged by his own men should have been his end. Allen's inability to pull the trigger is baffling.

Andrea was ok only because we had to put up with Lori. Once Lori died, it was easy to pull for Andrea's death since she's annoying (the show needs someone who can write women). After about a half hour, I realized that they were going to kill off Andrea. They had already done the "let a live zombie loose in the room" thing with Glenn and he had escaped. They couldn't pull the same shit twice in a season, so about half-way through I said "she's dead, she won't escape". I was actually hoping that she wouldn't get loose at all - it would have had a much better impact. That was a lost opportunity.

Ty seems like a good addition. It should be fun to see him compete with the group leadership if they take it in that direction. Which I hope they do. Of course, as the conscience of the group, Hershel is now redundant.

Carl is getting annoying. I had no problem with him shooting the kid since he didn't drop the gun fast enough. Give 'em a chance, but don't give 'em a long time to make up their minds. Drop it! Not fast enough? BLAM!!! So after that, Hershel's insistence that he killed in cold blood and the whole Carl Is An Angry Young Man stuff seemed fake.

Going to the prison makes no sense - why not stay at Woodbury? I don't get it. At this point, they should have plenty of guns and ammo since Woodbury had stockpiles of that shit.

I also agree that the zombie "genesis" episodes are better. I know the zombies are there to spur internal and external conflicts among the group, but finding out more about the zombie outbreak is interesting stuff. This season end seemed anticlimatic. We're still stuck at the prison, the group has driven off the gov and now we have a bunch of families to feed. Season 4 - Watch the Team Farming for Food! What fun!

I liked the season finale episode, but, didn't love it. It felt more like a mid season break episode though to me.

I knew Andrea was dead the moment she stopped trying to get the pliers and decided to have a conversation with Milton instead...those few minutes of chit chat came back to haunt her like a missed extra point in a close game. At least she finally got to kill herself though.

Carl was justified in killing the kid with the shotgun. You keep getting yelled at to put the gun down and instead you keep creeping closer and closer, of course you are going to get shot. Herschel, wake up and smell the zombies...you hesitate, you die.

I'm glad Maggie or Glenn didn't die and it's cool to see Tyreese join back up with the gang and it was also nice to see Rick bring the geriatric buffet to the prison, where there's still zombies.

Now that the Governor has gone public with his full blown crazy town self and only has two henchmen left, it will be interesting to see what he does from here. I haven't read the comics, so I have no idea if the show is totally off from the comics or not. So, my guess is, he probably will find some willing, but, clueless replacements to continue his hunt of Michone and Rick's group.

I didn't mind the episode. It was a curveball, no doubt, since I, like most, was expecting a battle royale between the prison and Woodbury (especially those that had read the comic.)

It didn't quite turn out that way.

Rick's group's tactics were perfect. They knew they were out manned and out gunned, so engaged in some guerilla type warfare. Hide, let them come in, find a dark, tight confusing coordidor, ambush them there, flush them out and then ambush them as they leave. (I assume that Rick, Michonne and Darryl were in the tunnels - throwing the flashbangs - while Glenn and Maggie were the ones outside).

The Governor going over the top and killing his own people mad sense with where they were taking the character and his whole - you kill or die speech. I also liked his talk with Milton. It explained why he became like he did - the death of his daughter which was also shown in his little ledger that Michonne found - and why he had become even more crazy after the death of his zombie daughter. It gave him the proper motivation.

As for Allen's hesitancy to kill the governor. I am surprised people are surprised by that. It was Allen. He isn't a brave person. It was quite clear that he freezes when it matters most. Remember the fight between him and Tyrese? It was all about how Tyrese saved Allen's wife when Allen froze up. So, it was par for the course for poor Allen.

I am also surprised about the Carl comments. He did make a leap between the end of season 2 and the beginning of season 3 (thank god), but I think his transformation into what he is becomming has been an integral part of the show and entirely consistent. Starting from when he had to shoot his own mother in the head after he died, to shooting Morgan (remember when Carl apologized for shooting him and said he had to and Morgan said never be sorry for that?). I think Carl's transformation to a stone cold killer - something this world is creating - and Rick's transformation from a stone cold killer and Ricktatorship back to realizing how important it is to cling to your humanity and other people is an interesting trend and potential conflict between father and son. It's all been on screen and shaped by actual events on screen.

I loved the Milton and Andrea scene. Very tense and well done. Milton tried to go out a hero and did what could, but, in the end, he was Milton.

The biggest problem with not finishing off the governor is that the whole conflict really had run its course. More than run its course. They stretched it out a few episodes longer than it needed to be. Not sure where they take it now, though, obviously the dynamic has changed.

As for where the show goes from here... This has always been the biggest problem with the comic and the whole concept in general. After the initial down fall of society and panic with the whole zombie apocalypse - which most movies tend to cover - what's left? Just surviving. The comic is very meandering. They go from this place to the next, problems are invented, but they are largely the same. Inter-personal conflicts, us vs. them, etc. Simply surviving in a crazy world is tough to keep interesting. I think I've talked about this before in this thread.

We'll see what happens.

I will miss the show and look forward to its return in October!

yeah, we're way off the reservation now

Ahhh ok cool. I'm fine with that to be honest. Though I'm sure there's got to be elements from the comic that would make a good transition to the small screen at this point. However, it does seem Kurtzman is in control of most things and gives his blessing to a lot of what goes on the show, so can't really get too mad at AMC. If anyone really is.

see this is one area where I think the editing was just...off. They pick up with the kid just running through the woods. was he running away from the fight or was he headed there on purpose? and then there was the showdown and that was kind of muddled to, because it wasn't really clear what the kid was doing since they only showed the rifle. finally, Hershel talks to Rick and tells a very different story than what we saw. Carl is adamant about going to Woodbury, Rick tells him no because he shot a guy, Carl says he did the right thing and then is all "have fun storming the castle".

honestly, that whole piece just seemed like it might have been cobbled together from something totally different in the editing room.

that's definitely the biggest problem. I can handle a lot of the other things, but I'm really weary of more of the Governor BS. I'm trying to think of a finale that totally failed to resolve something big like this and the first thing I could think of is the first season of Heroes. I assume the Killing would be on the list, but that's just from what I'd heard as I haven't seen it.*

*I'm sure the Following will be on this list soon as well.

The Carl at the end of the last episode and the Carl at the end of this one are completely different characters. I get your point, and having you spell it out that way helps a little, but I'm still far on the other side of this. The last episode ended with Carl a tough kid who has done some shit kids shouldn't have to do. This episode started with Carl being a full on ruthless borderline psychopath. I don't feel like I'm supposed to think its just an issue with irrational emotional not fully developed teenagers in the zombie apocalypse, I don't think any of us are really going there, so what's left is that its a shift in his character, and even though we can piece together why it might happen, the fact of the matter to me is that I feel like the show is presenting it to me like he snapped, overnight. Its just not working for me at all.

In my mind, I thought it was very clear that the kid was running away from the prison. There was mass panic, most people jumped into the trucks, he just ran. He ended up running right into Carl, Hershel et al.

I think ther was supposed to be some ambiguity to the scene. The kid was taking way too long to drop the shotgun. Hershel saw it one way, Carl another way. The viewer, I believe, was supposed to see either interpretation as potentially valid.

I had no problem with Carl shooting the kid. If he would have done what Carl asked him to do, he'd still be alive.

I have seen it as a slow, gradual decline. He started the season as a somewhat older, leaner more grizzled Carl and ever since he shot his own mother in the head, he has become colder and harder. Even last night they tied it all the way back to the zombie that killed Dale.

I've found Carl's character to be a bright spot in the season. Carl will likely win the coveted "Most Improved Television Character in 2013" award when comapring Season 2 Carl to Season 3.

Yep. Not dropping the gun as directed left Carl open to shooting him. Carl did the right thing. Not to mention, he was clearly ready to kill the prison people, since he had a gun.

You're running through the woods, away from a fire fight with your enemy. You run into 2 people pointing guns at you, telling you to drop your gun. You continue to inch your way towards the kid instead of dropping your gun like he told you to. You deserve to get shot in a situation like this.

Y'know what you call people who don't shoot that kid like Carl did?
Walkers.

And I'm completely in the same boat as HB about Carl. Not only do I really like how the character has been handled this season, but I'm also in agreement with Norman Reedus about just how well Chandler Riggs has played the role in terms of the transformation.

Despite my complaints, I agree with you completely here. To be clear, I love where Carl has ended up, I just have some problems with how its been presented along the way.

Kirkman interview (has some graphic novel spoilers):'The Walking Dead': Robert Kirkman talks season finale | Inside TV | EW.com

I saw Carl shooting the kid the same way most others do, and thought the comments later in the episode were odd. Maybe it was a poor camera angle and they meant to show the kid slowly putting his gun on the ground. It looked to me, though, that the kid was inching closer to Carl and looked like he was about to grab his gun. All Carl had to say was "We told him to stop and put his gun down but he kept coming closer to me and was obviously going to try to grab my gun, so I shot him." But neither Carl nor Herschel even hinted at that, which leads me to think that maybe it was just a poorly shot scene.

Since the boy told Carl that he was going to hand him his gun, I was waiting for someone to tell him to not bother and just drop the gun. I thought the situation could be resolved with one more instruction, but Carl seemed to want the excuse to shoot. I can certainly see why Carl felt justified. It was a very grey situation.

It could have been some piss poor editing, but, the impression that I got was (which was a very similar situation to when Rick, Herschel & Glenn were in the bar and two guys from Philly came in) that the kid was just getting too close for comfort. He was just there to kill them and yes, he's running away, but, he was still there to kill them.

Just hard to tell though if it was poor editing or a simple fact that Carl saw it one way and Herschel another.

I think they went to the prison instead of staying in Woodbury because the Governor is still out there somewhere. The Governor knows Woodbury very well, and the prison not well at all. He likely would know ways into the town that he told no one else about. They can do supply runs to get most of the important stuff out of the town and use it as a backup maybe if the prison gets breached.

I too wish the Governor arc was over with. Merle, Andrea, and Milton all sacrificed themselves in order to try to stop him, no matter how misguided Andrea and Milton were about it. Seems like almost pointless deaths that the Governor was not killed in return.

I'm not sure I'm going to like them basically being tied to the prison/the area around it due to all the people they just took in.

Just one midnight coronary can change all of that...

:devil:

Carl is basically the only one of these assholes that has a firm grasp of this world. His "what the fuck is this shit" line to his dad when all the kids and oldies came back was dead on. We sure he isn't Shane's kid?

Team Carl, fuck everyone else in this world, I hope they all die.

maybe they are setting it up for Carl to meet the Governor at some point, where the two can bond over their similar tactics

Last night sets new high for series viewers both overall & in demo. Finishes the year as TV's most watched scripted show - broadcast OR cable.

‘The Walking Dead’ Finale Ratings: 8.1 Million Adults 18-49, 12.4 Million Total Viewers - Ratings | TVbytheNumbers

Kirkman?

Probably not the place to ask, but could zombie Stephen Hawking walk?

Wouldn't think so, at least not in the TWD universe. As far as I can tell, they aren't capable of a lot more than they were able to do prior to death; i.e. no zombie superpowers.

Just based on my general recollection of pics of him I would question whether his lower body would be capable of much mobility, if any. Atrophy/lack of development basically. I figure he's starting from a lesser condition than the average zombie & therefore would be more susceptible to the various things that limit them (like stepping in a hole & breaking an ankle, won't stop the zed 'cause he'll still crawl after you but if the structure won't support walking then it doesn't walk)

Finally almost caught up thanks to the AMC marathon. First half of season 3 was awesome. Looking forward to the Governor's eventual demise...hopefully.

Oh and will somebody kill off Andrea already!

Another thing I noticed is that the Gov's gun is probably way too exotic to be in use in the US. It's a Austrian rifle which was in one of the COD games and might not even be chambered in 5.56. If it's not standard issue US, and I doubt it is, it seems highly possible that not many are even in the US. Automatic ones especially.

Also he must have unlicked the unlimited ammo perk.

Steyr AUG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fires a 5.56 just like the m16/m4, so he likely has lots of ammo for it from the soldiers they ambushed. From the wiki, apparently ICE uses them, so its possible he picked one up along the way. Now, I don't think ICE gets them in the full-auto variant, so that feature is debatable.

Yea that guy.

I don't mind the fact that Hershel saw things differently than Carl. I think all of us have agreed that Carl wasn't off base by shooting the kid that handed over his weapon at a glacial pace.

Hershel and the Rick have grown up and learned to be an adult in our society and are still very mired in it. Carl's biggest memories and experiences are in the new reality. He sees things more clearly and isn't anchored in some time and place where you just didn't shoot somebody for snoring too loud. I think the editing was done on purpose.

In that world, I would have killed the guy. No loose ends!

Dan - that is amazing.

Ok, maybe I am having a brain fart, but I can't figure out who is behind Carl and to the right of Carol in that picture.

Is that the chick that survived when the Governor killed all his own people?

yeah. and she's cute so I wouldn't mind if she became a longer-term addition

Why didn't they kill the Governor when he stopped to pose for that picture? How unrealistic.

they didn't recognize him with two good eyes

Thanks. I even spent a few minutes on IMDB trying to find her. Just couldn't picture her in the show.

I guess random escaping chick and Hershel's other daughter made the cast picture cut but Milton did not. Probably just a scheduling conflict, but he absence was noticeable to me.

With the exception on original cast member Andrea, everyone in the picture is still alive. I figured that was the reason for Milton's absence.

Hershel's other daughter, Beth (aka Doodlebug), was just announced as a permanent cast member for season 4 along with Tyrese and Sasha.

Milton was probably off filming his part in the CBS show unforgettable.

Wouldn't that shot have been from The Walking Dead film set, and taken months ago? They're all in their clothes from the show and on the set at the prison.

Milton (the actor playing him) wouldn't have been hired yet by CBS, I think.

It probably has a lot to do with the filming as well. For all we know they may have filmed the scenes inside the torture room before they filmed their last scenes with Andrea.

Yeah. I wonder if they left the outcome ambiguous until the door opened because they hadn't decided what Andrea's fate was

could it just be a picture?

Maybe Milton took the picture.

+1

Love this answer

Now this is a version of Monopoly I could be interested in playing: (as long as there are no blood, guts, and brains all over the board ;) )

The Walking Dead Monopoly Game | GeekAlerts

O.M.G.

Epic (4 min+) trailer revealed at ComicCon is EPIC.

Love some of the source material they hint at using, at least the first half of S4 looks to be very zombie focused (but not entirely), trailer has major intensity & sense of jeopardy for anyone & everyone that's not yet a walker.

edit to add: Most sources I've seen won't even load right now, I'll let you google for one that will or you can try the one that I finally got it from, embedded in the article below
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/liv...-season-585524

Damn that is intense.....Come on October!!

looking good!

I'm thrilled to see a second alum of The Wire (Larry Gilliard Jr. played D'Angelo on The Wire, he's the new black dude shown in many scenes in that trailer).

I'll tell you this much, they really know how to make an amazing trailer.



Can't wait for season 4!

Every time I try to watch a trailer or alternate link, it's blocked in my country. I hate that crap. There are Americans abroad.... :mad:

Try this link, courtesy of the official TWD Facebook page. It's labeled as International Fans, click here FOX Crime - FOX International Channels

edit to add: I guess that's who has their international distribution or something, hence the reference to Fox.


Might not work but figured it was at least worth a try

I just read the first 8 chapters of The Walking Dead. Wow. Completely different.

Comic-Con 2013: 'Walking Dead' Premiere Date Revealed, Debuts Season 4 Trailer

This one works from Europe.

Still no go from the last two links, but thanks for trying. It's OK. I'll just get to be surprised during all of the action scenes when the season starts. :)

This is a former student of mine!

AMC just announced that they are going to make a "Walking Dead" spin-off. The new show will start in 2015.

"The Walking Dead" spin-off in the works at AMC - CBS News

It will be with a new cast, new location and all of that.

Sign me up. "Walking Dead: Antarctica".

For those (me) who are catching up, I've seen that Netflix will be adding S3 to streaming on 10/1 - so we'll have 2 weeks to catch up before S4 premieres.

If they make this a World War Z (book) style show, lots of small stories from around the world, then id be really interested. If its the same show in a different location then i don't really care at all.

Yeah - somewhere foreign might be cool. Or different seasons in different places.

I like this or something based on the Morningstar Strain Series or the Day by Day Armageddon series.

...I hope it's not too much of a good thing and then end up diluting the product.

I was thinking about this while driving home.

What can they do with a second series that they couldn't do with the original? Instead of having a second series, why not make seasons for the original twice as long? What story about people surviving a zombie apocalypse can't be told with the characters we already know? A different location? Cool, but what's going to happen there that's can't happen already?

I vote for an Andrea/Lori prequel.

I think Kirkman's quote about not being tied to the source material might be the key. Plus you open the can for a second series, you have a chance to keep the franchise going on TV after the stars of the original become too expensive.

I think there's still potential in that world. "The Walking Dead" computer game - the good one by Telltale - is probably the best Walking Dead story I've read/played/seen to date.