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DaddyTorgo 06-07-2011 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog (Post 2480940)
You are right in the fact that blindside hits have been a point of emphasis and I even quoted Rule 48 in my post. Where you are wrong is in defining the hit as "blind side". To quote the NHL reference video on head shots, in a "north south hit, the responsibility to be aware still remains with the player being hit" as well as the "player skating north south with the puck needs to be aware of where he is and who is on the ice." I made reference to it earlier, but watch the NHL reference video with an unbiased approach to differentiate between blind side and non-blind side hits.

Now, if you watch the Horton-Rome hit again, look at Daniel Sedin coming up on the bottom of the screen. If he cuts in and puts a shoulder into Horton's head the way that Rome did, it's a blind side hit by definition of Rule 48.

I'm not saying it was a clean hit because it wasn't. But if it was a few fractions of a second earlier, there would have been nothing wrong with it. I've actually broke down the video and the time on the clock when Horton makes the pass is 14:57 and the time on the clock when Rome makes the hit is 14:57. We're not even talking about a full second here (although probably very close to it) and only 1.5 strides by Horton.

Like I said, I won't call it dirty, because one of my pre-requisites for "dirty" is usually some sort of intent which I don't believe there was. However, it was late and did cause an injury. And while normally, Horton would be responsible for having his head up, while he should have anyways in this area, he can be excused somewhat because he was not expecting a late hit and is likely why Rome will get a suspension.

However, this hit does not even come anywhere close to comparing to the hit by Andrew Ference on Jeff Halpern, which I would say was by far the dirtiest hit in the playoffs and for which Ference didn't get suspended. Not to mention the aforementioned Chara and Lucic hits, in addition to both the middle finger and water bottle incidents, none of which warranted suspensions. Gregory Campbell was sure a good pickup.


LOL

bhlloy 06-07-2011 02:14 AM

If that's not a hit that is insanely dangerous and they need to take out of the game then I guess you are right, I don't understand the game at all.

I would have given Ference at least a couple of games for the Halpern hit and I think I've been pretty clear about where I stand on the Chara hit, but to pretend that the hit tonight wasn't terrible because some Bruins haven't been suspended before... you've lost me.

molson 06-07-2011 02:40 AM

I know fan "classiness" is like the most important FOFC issue of all time, so I'd really like to know which fanbase, specifically, would be totally cool and would collectively shrug their shoulders at that hit and not "whine" about it. Nashville Predators? Minnesota Wild? Because if there's one out there, we need to give them the classiness Stanley cup or something.

Dr. Sak 06-07-2011 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 2480990)
I know fan "classiness" is like the most important FOFC issue of all time, so I'd really like to know which fanbase, specifically, would be totally cool and would collectively shrug their shoulders at that hit and not "whine" about it. Nashville Predators? Minnesota Wild? Because if there's one out there, we need to give them the classiness Stanley cup or something.


Atlanta Thrashers...no one whined when they left :)

Suburban Rhythm 06-07-2011 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 2480990)
I know fan "classiness" is like the most important FOFC issue of all time, so I'd really like to know which fanbase, specifically, would be totally cool and would collectively shrug their shoulders at that hit and not "whine" about it. Nashville Predators? Minnesota Wild? Because if there's one out there, we need to give them the classiness Stanley cup or something.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak (Post 2481013)
Atlanta Thrashers...no one whined when they left :)


Penguins Fans...we trust that anything on the ice that goes against us, Uncle Gary will take care of.

bhlloy 06-07-2011 09:07 AM

It's not fucking Nashville that's for sure. I'm of the opinion they are one of the whiniest fan bases in the league after this year. The only reason anyone ever thought different was they didn't manage to achieve anything except get crushed by the Red Wings year after year and it was just kinda expected at that point.

Suburban Rhythm 06-07-2011 09:11 AM

Re: the Rome hit

NHL network reported that, in slow motion, 30 frames = 1 second real time. Time elapsed from Horton releasing puck to Rome making contact: 29 frames.

Ronnie Dobbs2 06-07-2011 09:43 AM

Horton out for the playoffs, back for start of next season, with a concussion per 98.5 and Tony Maz.

miked 06-07-2011 10:29 AM

I know everyone says how fast the game is, but it looks like Horton actually takes 2-3 steps after passing before being lined up. Anyone who is of the impression that it was a clean hit is certainly biased...and I hate the Bruins :) It sucks because Boston loses a big scorer for the rest of the series while Vancouver loses their 6th defender, somebody just as likely to be a healthy scratch.

DaddyTorgo 06-07-2011 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked (Post 2481116)
I know everyone says how fast the game is, but it looks like Horton actually takes 2-3 steps after passing before being lined up. Anyone who is of the impression that it was a clean hit is certainly biased...and I hate the Bruins :) It sucks because Boston loses a big scorer for the rest of the series while Vancouver loses their 6th defender, somebody just as likely to be a healthy scratch.


Yeah. Fucking pisses me off. I almost hope somebody on the 4th line goes headhunting for a Sedin or a Kessler. And yeah - I'm not exactly proud of that, but it's true.

Honolulu_Blue 06-07-2011 10:46 AM

That short handed goal by Marchand was awesome. Just a fantastic goal all around.

I have to admit, that, despite what Claude Julien says, I enjoyed all the finger taunting the Bruins have been doing. It makes me laugh. It's been a fun little rallying cry of sorts.

Losing Horton will be tough to overcome, but it could be a bit of a wake up call for the Bruins, much like the Torres hit on Seabrook was for the Blackhawks. I really hate Rafi Torres, by the way. I hated him when he was in Edmonton and still can't stand him. He's got those bug eyes, that ridiculous facial hair and, by all accounts, was a bit of a coke head, at least while he was in Edmonton. He also hurts people. He must be an incredibly solid guy because he really tends to destroy people when he hits them and looks to do it. I was very happy when he was moved to Buffalo for that short period of time, because I was tired of seeing him.

I enjoyed Thomas' hit on one of the Sedins. Should have been a penalty, but I liked it.

Dr. Sak 06-07-2011 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked (Post 2481116)
I know everyone says how fast the game is, but it looks like Horton actually takes 2-3 steps after passing before being lined up. Anyone who is of the impression that it was a clean hit is certainly biased...and I hate the Bruins :) It sucks because Boston loses a big scorer for the rest of the series while Vancouver loses their 6th defender, somebody just as likely to be a healthy scratch.


It is not clean..it is way late, but for those Bruins fans who are all up at arms about this, are you the same ones that cheered Chara after he slammed that Habs player into the turnbuckle?

About the suspension or potential one...I think it would be worth looking into having the offending team losing a roster spot for as long as the player is suspended.

Logan 06-07-2011 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm (Post 2481081)
Re: the Rome hit

NHL network reported that, in slow motion, 30 frames = 1 second real time. Time elapsed from Horton releasing puck to Rome making contact: 29 frames.


Friend of mine just told me that the NHL defines a late hit as 15 frames.

DaddyTorgo 06-07-2011 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak (Post 2481144)
About the suspension or potential one...I think it would be worth looking into having the offending team losing a roster spot for as long as the player is suspended.


I really think this is the only fair thing to do. Or else have something like "you lose one player from your pregame roster who played on the same equivelent line as the person who is injured" (although that opens it up to a lot more ambiguity I understand).

DaddyTorgo 06-07-2011 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak (Post 2481144)
It is not clean..it is way late, but for those Bruins fans who are all up at arms about this, are you the same ones that cheered Chara after he slammed that Habs player into the turnbuckle?


No.

Suburban Rhythm 06-07-2011 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak (Post 2481144)
It is not clean..it is way late, but for those Bruins fans who are all up at arms about this, are you the same ones that cheered Chara after he slammed that Habs player into the turnbuckle?

About the suspension or potential one...I think it would be worth looking into having the offending team losing a roster spot for as long as the player is suspended.


This

The "only" thing wrong with Rome's hit, by the rules as they are currently written, is it was late. Resulted in an interference penalty.

Chara's hit was also interference.

I posted in the regular season thread at that time, but Campbell's decision on the Ovechkin-Brian Campbell hit last season was to the effect of "you are responsible for the result of the play." Ovy got 4 games due to the injury to Campbell. Chara got zero. New year, new standard apparently. 0 games for Rome.

Honolulu_Blue 06-07-2011 12:51 PM

Rome is out for the year.

4 game suspension, which will carryover into next year if the series doesn't go 7 games.

SirFozzie 06-07-2011 12:56 PM

Wow. I was expecting a 1-2 game suspension (this is the playoffs,everything is magnified), apparently they decided to make "the punishment fit the crime".

I also wonder if this a whiplash reaction to the fact that the guy who was not suspended for the game 1 reaction scored twice in game 2?

Dr. Sak 06-07-2011 01:01 PM

I doubt the suspension would be this high had it been a higher profile player. So horray NHL...sorta.

Carman Bulldog 06-07-2011 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo (Post 2480944)
LOL


I'm not really sure what the LOL is for, you'll have to elaborate.

It's really disappointing that Horton will be gone for the remainder of the playoffs. Hopefully Tyler Seguin will step in and have a positive impact with some improved ice time.

I'm surprised by the length of the suspension though. Definitely a case where they punished the outcome rather than the action itself. Obviously it was a late hit and Horton suffered a major injury because of it, but there did not appear to be any intent to injure nor was it in breach of Rule 48 regarding head shots.

I'm also speculating that the two players involved came into play. The fact that Horton is a star player and Rome is a fringe player make it easy for the NHL to "send a message." If it had been Kesler making the hit on a player like Thornton, Paille or McQuaid, I'm not even sure we would see a suspension or at the most, one game. Let's not forget Pronger's hit on Dean McCammond, which was much worse than the Rome hit.

It would be a lot nicer if the NHL could decide some actual parameters for suspensions and be somewhat consistent in their application.

bhlloy 06-07-2011 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog (Post 2481250)

It would be a lot nicer if the NHL could decide some actual parameters for suspensions and be somewhat consistent in their application.


I think we can all agree on that, at least

Suburban Rhythm 06-07-2011 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhlloy (Post 2481276)
I think we can all agree on that, at least


We've got, at most, 4 more games of the current group.

I've got high hopes for Shanahan, he's been rather progressive with suggestions since his retirement, so I'm praying that carries over. The first thing that needs to go is punishing the result and not the action.

Kunitz's elbow to Gagne's head is 10X more intentional than Rome's hit. But, since Gagne skated away, 1 game.

But until the NHL eliminates ALL headshots, there will still be a gray area, like this hit.

DaddyTorgo 06-07-2011 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm (Post 2481301)
We've got, at most, 4 more games of the current group.

I've got high hopes for Shanahan, he's been rather progressive with suggestions since his retirement, so I'm praying that carries over. The first thing that needs to go is punishing the result and not the action.

Kunitz's elbow to Gagne's head is 10X more intentional than Rome's hit. But, since Gagne skated away, 1 game.

But until the NHL eliminates ALL headshots, there will still be a gray area, like this hit.


There's no gray area in this hit - nice revisionist history though. See above, who was it, Logan talking about the NHL standard for a late hit is "15 frames" and this was 29 frames. So it was clearly late...clearly to the head. I think I'm going to go with the opinion of every single talking head on every network saying that it was a violation of Rule 48 if you don't mind.

Logan 06-07-2011 03:04 PM

It was clearly late but I would never say it was clearly to the head.

DaddyTorgo 06-07-2011 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan (Post 2481315)
It was clearly late but I would never say it was clearly to the head.


Fair enough. Logan's point was that it was late only.

I'm no expert on hockey rules - all I know is that every single commentator/ESPN talking head/journalist that I have seen seems to feel that it falls squarely under this Rule 48. As apparently did the league since they gave him 4 games.

Pumpy Tudors 06-07-2011 03:29 PM

I didn't see the game, nor have I watched the Rome-on-Horton hit with any decent quality. Having just watched a low-resolution version of it on my phone, though, it looks like Horton got hit in the shoulder, but he landed on his head. The hit looked late, but I don't see much more than an interference penalty here (which is what Rome apparently got before the suspension). If Horton somehow managed to skate off the ice and not miss any time because of that hit, I don't think Rome would have gotten suspended at all. Hell, if Horton had somehow managed to land on his back instead of his head, people would call it a great hockey hit by Rome and move on with their lives.

It's bad for Horton that he's hurt, and it sucks for Bruins fans, but I'm just not seeing anything dirty here by Rome. Maybe my opinion will change when I actually see a video that doesn't look like shoddy 8-bit animation from a Sega Master System.

Suburban Rhythm 06-07-2011 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo (Post 2481303)
There's no gray area in this hit - nice revisionist history though. See above, who was it, Logan talking about the NHL standard for a late hit is "15 frames" and this was 29 frames. So it was clearly late...clearly to the head. I think I'm going to go with the opinion of every single talking head on every network saying that it was a violation of Rule 48 if you don't mind.


I said last night it was late, and today I repeated that.

But, I've seen nothing saying he's being suspended as a violation of Rule 48.

THE HEAD CAN BE THE POINT OF CONTACT IF IT IS NOT BLINDSIDE!

You might not like that, I surely don't. Savard was knocked out by it, Crosby missed 5 months of hockey because of a similar hit. But, as the rules are written, contact to the head is not outlawed. I think it should be, but it's not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan (Post 2481315)
It was clearly late but I would never say it was clearly to the head.


I think everyone will agree it was late. But I think that is the only thing, by the books, that was wrong with the hit.

Suburban Rhythm 06-07-2011 03:48 PM

Dola

2011 Stanley Cup playoffs: Vancouver Canucks' Aaron Rome suspended 4 games, Boston Bruins' Nathan Horton to miss rest of playoffs - ESPN Boston

Quote:

"Two factors were considered in reaching this decision," Mike Murphy, the league's senior vice president of hockey operations, said in a statement. "The hit by Rome was clearly beyond what is acceptable in terms of how late it was delivered after Horton had released the puck, and it caused a significant injury."


No mention of blindside

Logan 06-07-2011 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm (Post 2481349)
I think everyone will agree it was late. But I think that is the only thing, by the books, that was wrong with the hit.


Yeah I'm with you. I was just differentiating that the NHL has a mechanism in place for determining if a hit is late (15 frames), so this "clearly" was. There are only rare instances when you can say that the head is "clearly" targeted (Cooke elbow on McDonagh for example).

Dr. Sak 06-07-2011 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo (Post 2481327)
Fair enough. Logan's point was that it was late only.

I'm no expert on hockey rules - all I know is that every single commentator/ESPN talking head/journalist that I have seen seems to feel that it falls squarely under this Rule 48. As apparently did the league since they gave him 4 games.


Can I give you just one bit of advice...never turn to ESPN for hockey talk. First off you will spend 59 minutes of every Sportscenter waiting for it and second of all, they only talk about it when there is controversy to make it look bad....oh yeah and you have Barry Melrose.

Pumpy Tudors 06-07-2011 05:01 PM

can i get official word from jack edwards on this whole situation please

Maple Leafs 06-07-2011 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan (Post 2481365)
Yeah I'm with you. I was just differentiating that the NHL has a mechanism in place for determining if a hit is late (15 frames)

Serious question: Had anyone ever heard of this 15-frame rule before last night?

I watch about as much hockey as anyone, and I'd never heard of this before the Horton hit.

Dr. Sak 06-07-2011 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors (Post 2481398)
can i get official word from jack edwards on this whole situation please



DaddyTorgo 06-07-2011 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak (Post 2481394)
Can I give you just one bit of advice...never turn to ESPN for hockey talk. First off you will spend 59 minutes of every Sportscenter waiting for it and second of all, they only talk about it when there is controversy to make it look bad....oh yeah and you have Barry Melrose.


I wouldn't say I "turn to it." More that I watch sportscenter while i work out everyday.

Draft Dodger 06-07-2011 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs (Post 2481400)
Serious question: Had anyone ever heard of this 15-frame rule before last night?

I watch about as much hockey as anyone, and I'd never heard of this before the Horton hit.


nope. when Mackenzie said this morning that the NHL considers anything over 30 seconds (ie 15 frames) as late, it was the first I'd ever heard of it.

Honolulu_Blue 06-07-2011 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs (Post 2481400)
Serious question: Had anyone ever heard of this 15-frame rule before last night?

I watch about as much hockey as anyone, and I'd never heard of this before the Horton hit.


I am pretty sure it's in the NHL Rulebook. Same chapter as "The Hitting Zone".

Suburban Rhythm 06-07-2011 05:28 PM

Had never heard of the rule, and think it makes Murphy's explanation that much more asinine.

"Clearly" late...less than 1/2 second...there are probably more hits made outside of that threshold than inside it every game. Just they aren't nearly as violent.

Waiting for Lapierre to get rubbed out a full second after releasing the puck, and launch himself to the ice in agony.

Carman Bulldog 06-07-2011 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo (Post 2481327)
Fair enough. Logan's point was that it was late only.

I'm no expert on hockey rules - all I know is that every single commentator/ESPN talking head/journalist that I have seen seems to feel that it falls squarely under this Rule 48. As apparently did the league since they gave him 4 games.


Perhaps the coverage around the Boston area may think that the hit falls under Rule 48, but any media that I've watched or read all says that it is not. Not to mention the fact that I've personally actually watched the video released by the NHL regarding the rule and the hit is clearly north-south. And not to mention the fact that the NHL made no reference to Rule 48 in the reasoning for the suspension as someone else here posted. I'd really like to see where you are getting this information from.

It was interference, and from what what was revealed this morning, it was 14 frames too late which would be about 0.46 seconds. However, that was the only thing wrong with the hit. There were probably at least 10 hits last night alone that were close to or equally as late, however none had the same impact due to players being ready for the hit. The fact is, if Horton gets up and skates away, that play is likely not even called, let alone warranting a four game suspension.

On an aside, Claude Julien stated regarding Max Lapierre that it "Certainly wouldn't be acceptable on our end of it." It will be interesting to hear Julien's response now.

bbor 06-07-2011 08:16 PM

Just play the damn game....it's a contact sport...people get injured cleanly and sometimes with a cheap shot.You cannot compare one illegal hit to another based on how long someone was or is injured for...it doesn't work like that...ever.

Rome was suspended end of story.....and it was an 8 game suspension really...not a 4 as playoff suspensions count double what regular season suspensions are.

Do i agree with every suspension...hell no...but i deal with it cause i love the dman game.The end.

DaddyTorgo 06-07-2011 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog (Post 2481512)
Perhaps the coverage around the Boston area may think that the hit falls under Rule 48, but any media that I've watched or read all says that it is not. Not to mention the fact that I've personally actually watched the video released by the NHL regarding the rule and the hit is clearly north-south. And not to mention the fact that the NHL made no reference to Rule 48 in the reasoning for the suspension as someone else here posted. I'd really like to see where you are getting this information from.

It was interference, and from what what was revealed this morning, it was 14 frames too late which would be about 0.46 seconds. However, that was the only thing wrong with the hit. There were probably at least 10 hits last night alone that were close to or equally as late, however none had the same impact due to players being ready for the hit. The fact is, if Horton gets up and skates away, that play is likely not even called, let alone warranting a four game suspension.

On an aside, Claude Julien stated regarding Max Lapierre that it "Certainly wouldn't be acceptable on our end of it." It will be interesting to hear Julien's response now.


Fine - maybe I was paraphrasing with the Rule 48 bit, or misunderstanding what people were saying. Regardless - I haven't heard any commentators talking about how the suspension is some grave injustice or isn't deserved.

Dr. Sak 06-07-2011 08:32 PM

I guess I am a Canadian too because I pretty much have agreed with everything he has said. :eek:

Suburban Rhythm 06-07-2011 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak (Post 2481529)
I guess I am a Canadian too because I pretty much have agreed with everything he has said. :eek:


Hoser

Also, as far as media against the suspension, NHLnet last night, of the panel assembled, Marty Turco and Mike Johnson said no suspension, Doug Weight said suspendable...and said it was between 1 and 2 seconds late. I don't know that anyone's going to come out now as outraged, but clearly people disagreed.

Dr. Sak 06-07-2011 09:12 PM

The Phoenix Coyotes have traded the negotiation rights of goalie Ilya Bryzgalov to the Philadelphia Flyers in exchange for a third-round pick in the 2012 draft and future considerations.

bhlloy 06-07-2011 09:25 PM

That's a pretty big deal for the Flyers if they can get him signed... they've been a top 10 goalie away from being a clear favorite for a couple of years now

Suburban Rhythm 06-07-2011 09:41 PM

20 games each for Bryzgalov, Leighton, Boucher and Bobrovsky.

Ron Hextall starts the other 2...and is named playoff starter after leading team in wins.

Honolulu_Blue 06-08-2011 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak (Post 2481556)
The Phoenix Coyotes have traded the negotiation rights of goalie Ilya Bryzgalov to the Philadelphia Flyers in exchange for a third-round pick in the 2012 draft and future considerations.


It will be interesting to see if they can sign him. By all accounts Bryzgalov was looking for a big money, long term type of deal. He wants to get paid and this is likely his best opportunity to do so.

He is a great goalie, so long as he doesn't have to face Detroit in the playoffs.

DeToxRox 06-08-2011 03:06 PM

Pretty cool story on NBA Player Popeye Jones who's son is pretty much a lock to be a 1st round pick in a couple of years:

Quote:

Hockey?

To Popeye Jones this had to be a phase. His sons wanted to play hockey? At first he smiled when the subject came up after he returned home from an NBA season away. Sure, he liked watching hockey and he noticed that the neighborhood children played it outside their suburban Denver home. But he was an NBA basketball player, after all, a forward well into an 11-year career. Didn't basketball players' kids want to be basketball players too?

He looked at his three sons, amazed.

"You want to play ice hockey?" he asked.

They were standing in the middle of a sporting goods store, more than 10 years ago now. All around them lay piles of skates, sticks, helmets and sweaters. His credit card was out, the register was buzzing. Suddenly he felt an anger welling inside. He had a certain cache in being Popeye Jones. He was a 6-foot-8, a power forward, not a superstar but known enough to be recognized wherever he went. Now his kids were telling him they wanted to become hockey players?

How did they even learn how to skate?

Popeye chuckles at the memory. He's had time to adjust. His oldest son Justin, 20, just finished a season with a junior team near his Dallas home called the Texas Tornado. His youngest boy Caleb, 14, is showing promise too. But it is his middle son, 16-year-old Seth, whom hockey people are talking about. They say Seth, a tall, rugged defenseman who plays for the U.S. Under-17 team, might be a top 10 pick in the 2013 NHL Draft.
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Popeye doesn't know much about hockey, not like basketball where he is an assistant coach with the New Jersey Nets. Over the years, he has stood in the back of rinks, a giant of a man trying to hide as he watched his sons skating across the ice. He calls out encouragement. He has learned the game but not enough that he can break down their performances.

Once, at the Pepsi Center in Denver, he bumped into Joe Sakic of the Colorado Avalanche.

"My sons want to play hockey, what do I do?" he asked.

Sakic stared at the man towering before him.

"They'll probably be big," Sakic replied.

Popeye can tell Seth is going to be very good. It doesn't take the trained eye of a hockey expert to realize he has skill. He's a defenseman, 6-foot-3, 185 pounds, physical but not intimidating. When Popeye watches Seth play, he sees a leader. The first word that comes to mind is "intelligent." He glides with purpose, weaving through players, never firing the puck too hard or too soft.

"When he's playing I see a calmness," Popeye says. "I see the ability when he is on the ice that more often than not he will make the right decision."

Or as his ex-wife Amy, the mother of his three boys says: "Seth sees things the others don't."

At USA Hockey they love Seth. The coaches there notice the same things that are so obvious to the father. The Under-17 team coach, former NHL player Danton Cole, calls Seth "a point guard."

"When it needs to go fast he speeds it up," Cole says. "When it needs to go slow he slows it down. His poise and maturity are an interesting combination. He's a tremendously mature young man as well."

Cole pauses.

"That kid was born to play hockey," he says.

Any hope Popeye had of converting his middle son to some other sport died soon after Seth first started playing hockey at about age five. When Amy realized the children loved the game, she took them for skating lessons. After that Seth wanted nothing more than to be a hockey player. Popeye tried to get him to fall for another game. There was basketball, of course. And when Seth turned out to be left-handed, Popeye -- who grew up playing baseball in addition to basketball -- thought maybe he could make his boy a pitcher. No chance. Seth wanted hockey.

related story.

* The NHL Defenseman From The O.C. >>

"Since I started playing this is what I have wanted to do," Seth says. "It's just the speed and the intensity of the game."

He is in Ann Arbor, Mich., when he says this by phone. He moved there over a year ago when the U.S. team called, leaving his mom and his brothers behind to live with a host family and attend high school far away from the suburban Dallas home where his family relocated a few years ago. It is a lonely life in a way. "A different life," Seth calls it. But it might also be the greatest gift his father could have provided: An ability to focus completely on a sport, locking himself into it for weeks, even months at a time.

Through the years, Popeye brought his children around to the practices and locker rooms and games of whatever team he happened to be with at the time. From a young age they all noticed how it was a job to the players, how they had to work for hours lifting weights and practicing jump shots. It wasn't lost on Seth, for instance, that Mavericks forward Dirk Nowitzki took hundreds of jump shots alone in an empty gym just to be able to make 10 in a game.

Basketball took Popeye away for months at a time. For a few years, whenever he changed teams, the family moved along, following him from Dallas to Toronto to Boston and eventually Denver. When he signed with the Washington Wizards in 2000, they stayed behind in the Denver suburbs. Popeye played in Washington and moved back when the season ended. That's when the hockey started.

Popeye and Amy agree this is the way it had to be. Basketball was not something Popeye could fake and the nomadic life of a basketball player bouncing from team to team does not give the children a stable life in which they could stay in the same schools or keep the same friends. When hockey came along, everyone in the family says, it was Amy who had to drive the boys to practice, sit for hours in frigid rinks watching workouts and games until she could detect flaws, and tell her son about them the moment he was off the ice.

Asked if Popeye was the kind of father who came to games, yelling at the referees and harassing the coaches, Seth laughs. No, he says. When his father came, he'd stay in the back, out of the way. It was his mother who yelled. "She's been a great role model," he says.

But, of course, the story is always about Popeye because this is something most people can’t believe. In some ways it is a racial thing. Popeye Jones is black and while there have been more African American hockey stars in recent years, it is still seen as very much of a white game. With Popeye being so visible, a man most people have some kind of mental picture of, the fact his boys play hockey can create mild confusion.

"A lot of people do double-takes," Popeye says of his trips to the rink.

Amy is white, however. And maybe because of this and the fact the children were so good, the comments that might have been made in the past have never come up. Almost nobody makes mention of Popeye on the ice. Cole says he noticed Seth was asked a lot by the U.S. teammates and officials about his famous father. He answered the questions and then the conversation went somewhere else. "That's only going to go so far in a locker room," Cole says.

Popeye has a lot of funny stories about the cultural divide between his life and his sons. He remembers returning home from his seasons away and sitting down to watch basketball playoffs on television only to be overruled by his wife and kids determined to watch hockey. “I got banished to another room to watch basketball," he says.

Jokingly he blames Mike Modano. It was Modano, the former Dallas Stars center who first invited him to a hockey game after they met at a charity function when Popeye was a young player with the Mavericks. Popeye brought his wife and young children. They had so much fun, he remembers they kept going back. Maybe if he had never met Modano, or if they had never gone to the hockey game, things would have turned out differently. His boys would be playing basketball or baseball -- something he understood better.

Mostly, though there is pride mixed with a father's regret of a life lived on the road. So much he missed.

"It tore at my gut to not be able to see him on the (U.S.) team," Popeye says.

His salvation came from a video company who has an office in the Nets training facility. The company can make a DVD of any game that has been televised anywhere and it found many of Seth’s games for Popeye, burning a recording on a disc and leaving it on his desk for him to watch later. Last year, when the Youth 17 Championships coincided with a Nets game, Popeye found himself sitting in his hotel room at 2:30 a.m. watching recordings of the hockey, amazed by his son's poise and maturity.

He realizes Seth is so different than himself at that age. At 16 Popeye didn’t even know he wanted to be a basketball player. He played baseball and football in addition to basketball and loved them all. The fact Seth is so devoted to one thing amazes him.

"I know Popeye misses being around it," Amy says.

But this was the price of a life in basketball, a life that despite the long gaps also gave their children advantages others never had. The children never wanted for much outside of hockey, but there was always money for equipment and rink rental and lessons along with those trips to the NBA locker rooms and the understanding of how much you have to sacrifice to become great.

It's all worked out for the best.

Except Popeye still has this one thought. Every time he watches his son on the ice it won't go away, nagging in the back of the coach’s mind. Seth is so tall, so smooth, so in control ...

"I still think he'd make a great basketball player."


DaddyTorgo 06-08-2011 03:14 PM

Awesome story.

Suburban Rhythm 06-08-2011 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox (Post 2481996)
Pretty cool story on NBA Player Popeye Jones who's son is pretty much a lock to be a 1st round pick in a couple of years:


He was also featured in last year's THN Future Watch (Feb 2010 edition)

bhlloy 06-08-2011 09:39 PM

Luongo-noooo


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