trade deadline deals are always anti-climatic.....come on devils, PULL THE TRIGGER!

What was up with that weird, Curtis Brown, Jeff Jillson, Brad Boyes trade? Jillson headed to Buffalo? Is Jilllson never going to develop? Very strange.

boring deadline.

Canucks do get Martin Rucinsky.
Grier goes to Buffalo (Satan goes nowhere, it seems).
Blues get Savage.
*yawn*

Boston sends Jeff Jillson back to San Jose. San Jose send Jillson away again, this time to Buffalo. odd.

I think DeVries is a nice "get" for Ottawa. Francis would be a bigger pickup for almost any other team besides Toronto - that team is already so loaded with veteran leadership presence he wont add as much as he would have on another club. Might be interesting to see him come in somewhere though where he doesn't have to lead the club and can just focus on playing - he might turn out to be the pickup of the deadline.

love the trade for Salo. Not so in love with losing Morris for Gratton, but that's life. Barnaby? meh.

I must have missed the part where Vancouver got an NHL-calibre goaltender...

That's awful logic. By that same cause/effect token, if some guy is watering his lawn, you slip on the water and get hit by the car then he gets the death penalty for killing you. The sucker punch was not what caused the broken neck or all the blood.

If it was just the cheap shot, Moore falls on the ice, and Bertuzzi keeps on skating by him, this isn't a story today. I'm still up in the air about whether Bertuzzi was trying to get him on the way down. If they decide he was trying to drive him into the ice, there's no way he plays until after the lockout. Sure, a cheap shot is cowardly and weak but it happens all the time in hockey and other guys don't get suspended 20 games for it. Look at what actually caused the gruesome damage.

SI

Stan Neckar was traded to Tampa for a 6th rounder!! Wow! Did you know that back around 1993-1995 or so, there was a big rumor floating around Detroit that the Wings were going to trade Steve Yzerman to Ottawa for Stan Neckar. Yes, the Stan Neckar who was just traded for a 6th round pick. Wow, that would have been the worst. trade. ever. EVER. I would have given up hockey and likely the Red Wings. Phew! Thank god THAT didn't happen.

Good to see Holzinger escape Pittsburg. Granted, he landed in Colombus, but it has to be better than Pitt.

So it looks like Kolzig is the last man standing. The only player on the Capitals with any kind of salary who wasn't traded. The rest of them, ALL of them, Bonrda, Lang, Gonchar, Carter, Nylander, and Grier are gone. Of course, Kolzig is the only one who is on my CURSED ESPN fantasy hockey team, so it's no surprise there...

No. This is totally wrong. For an offense like this you look at intent and track it back from there. Did Bertuzzi intend to hit Moore? Yes, it was premeditated, he chased him half-way across the rink. Did he intend to break his neck with the punch? No. But that doesn't matter, once you have the original intent of the act (the punch) you have to live the consequences. Same thing would happen if you got into a fight. You punch some dude and he just happens to have some rare condition that makes his skull like an egg-shell and he dies, you on the hook for voluntary manslaughter (or some equivalent).

This is totally different from the watering the law scenario. Different ballpark, different sport (pardon the pun).

The logic of the original post was sound.

Awful logic? I don't think so: had Bertuzzi not sucker-punched Moore in the first place, the entire incident (regardless of whether Bertuzzi "drove" Moore into the ice purposely or not) would never have taken place.

You're right about one thing: cheap shots do happen all the time. The difference is that Bertuzzi's actions broke Moore's neck, so regardless of whether or not he tried to drive Moore into the ice, Bertuzzi's sucker-punch jumpstarted the whole incident and he should be accountable for his actions. What caused the damage? Bertuzzi caused the damage, plain and simple.

Stan Neckar (pronounced NeshCash, IIRC) is still in the league? really?

And that's why there's the distinction between voluntary manslaughter and murder. If you knew about the condition and were trying to kill him, you get 1st degree murder as opposed to if you just get in a fight and accidentally kill a guy, they don't set you up with a date with ol' Sparky. Intent has to be taken into account. Obviously, I can't read the guy's mind but I don't think Bertuzzi went out there with the intent to put the guy into the hospital, just to ring his bell.

SI

I've always heard it NetzCarsh

Bertuzzi hit more with the intent to injure. That's where the intent lies. The extent of the injury really has nothing to do with the intent. That's the distinction between Bertuzzi's action and the guy watering his lawn.

In hockey, I don't think the crime should be dependent on the injury sustained. Though I think it's hard to divorce the two. If the injury turns out to be serious, I think Bertuzzi has more to fear from the police in Vancouver than whatever punishment the NHL hands down.

i thought it was Nes-Cash

I've always heard it...

"healthy scratches for tonights game....."

Well, then we're quasi in agreement. I agree that it should have more to do with the intent to injure rather than extent of injury.

But I think you're getting caught up in the "hype" of this injury. Should every enforcer who goes out there to cheap shot a guy get the same 20+ games Bertuzzi is going go to get? That's why I made the distinction that if they decide he was trying to hurt him as he was falling (and subsequently dragging his stunned carcass across the ice), then there isn't a big enough book to throw at him. However, if his intent was just to cheap shot him upside the head, there's no way you can justify that as a 20+ game suspension or every bench would have 2 or 3 guys serving 20 game suspensions at any given time.

SI

See, this is the part I can never really get my head around. Should the injury dictate the punishment? I'm still not sure.

If you say "yes", then you have to accept that there will be plenty of cheap shots going on that never get severely punished. Guys sucker punch each other all the time -- not as bad as Bertuzzi, of course, but you see it all the time in scrums. Do you never punish anyone as long as nobody's hurt?

Then again, if you say "no", then it's not really fair to throw the book at Bertuzzi just because the guy he hit happens to get hurt. But the guy has a broken neck. How can that not affect the punishment?

Look at the Havlat/Recchi incident. Havlat swings at his head, but Recchi sees it coming and manages to absorb most of the impact with his arm. Havlat gets a slap on the wrist - two games. What if Recchi is just a little slower and takes the full force of the slash? He's out cold on the ice in a pool of blood, same as Moore. Does Havlat get the season then? Doesn't the difference between 2 games and 20 games for the exact same action seem a little odd?

Vancouver also got Geoff Sanderson from CLB.

I really like Panger, but in a chat tonight...


SI

the ESPN guys are nice, but they are total pussies when it comes to voicing their opinion - Pang, Clement, Melrose...all of them are so freaking diplomatic 99% of the time.

all the more reason to enjoy the various Canadian feeds I get through Directv.

Upon watching the Bertuzzi hit, I can't help but think that the most serious injury might have occurred when Moore's teammate piled on Bertuzzi immediately after the hit. Not that Bertuzzi shouldn't be held responsible for the full extent of the injuries that he caused, but it really looked like the neck injury occurred during the aftermath, not the punch/takedown.

Nice trade analysis from THN:

http://www.forecaster.ca/hockeynews/hockey/tradelog.cgi

Sachmo,

What happened with the Stars last night, shut out in Pittsburgh. I watched some of the game and Aubin stood on his head (45 saves) :)

Todd

Great link, thanks.

Okay, anybody want to take a shot at guessing how much playing time Salo will see down the stretch? 50/50 with Aebischer? Less? More?

(trying to figure out what fantasy hockey value he has left. G is the only position where I'm not even close to my games played allotment)

Aebischer will play in almost all the games. Salo is just insurance - replacing struggling backup Phil Sauve.

Unfortunately (for me, not for the Avs) that's pretty much what I figured :(

Aubin earned every minute of his perfect 60. The Stars looked past Pittsburgh, and they got burned. Also, they are a horrible road team, which does not bode well for the #5 seed. :o

Hrmm... That [CENSORED] going on right now really makes you appreciate our little hockey sub-segment we've got here.


edited for thread security.

yep

Shh... druez might hear us.

:)

yes, our conversation ran its course yesterday, now back to bashing bobby clarke!

ok.

Bobby Clarke still sucks

whoooo!

He did get two draft picks for Therian. Apparently, he sucks.

Agreed. I disagreed with some of what was said over here (and being devil's advocate is just so darn fun, too) but it didn't turn into a knock down drag out brawl. We just had our debate and got done with it. I don't know who this druez person is, but people seem to enjoy taking pot shots at him personally instead of the argument. I was thinking of responding over there but thought better of it.

*tries to draw some parallel to code of the NHL thread versus the rest of the board not understanding and drawing a blank* ;)

SI

WHat happened??

a very tearful apology from Bertuzzi tonight...

I think it was obvious that he was genuinely upset. Still, unless the NHL makes an example of him, the league will be even more irrelevant than it already is.

I'm not sure the NHL has the balls to do that, especially to one of its stars on a contending team.

Verdict is in: he's gone for the rest of the season, including playoffs.

The NHL drops the ball yet again. They have the opportunity to fight back against the brutality and negativity surrounding their league and they fail to seize the opportunity and make an example of Bertuzzi. I'm very, very disappointed.

I'm an Avs fan and I think the suspension was about right.

As the exact opposite of an Avs fan ( ;) ) I agree. Therefore, we have a consensus.

The league has been pretty reluctant to ban anyone during the play-offs. It certainly happens, but the sentences are usually much shorter. This is satisfactory and I think sends a strong enough message.

Ahh... Gets more interesting.

From TSN

"Mr. Bertuzzi will be required to meet with Commissioner Bettman prior to the start of training camp for the 2004-05 season, at which point Mr. Bertuzzi's eligibility will be reviewed in light of all the available facts at that time, including Mr. Moore's physical status and the progression of his recovery."

So, in essence, the suspension could last longer...

it can, but I don't think it will.
Bertuzzi certainly appears to be sincerely remorseful about what happen. He still does deserve what he got, but I don't think they'll drag it out longer.

I also have a feeling that Steve Moore would not want it dragged out longer either.

I am dissapointed in one thing involving this. Marc Crawford deserved a suspension.

dola

of course, there isn't even going to BE a 2004-2005 season, so any talk of the suspension going longer is moot. :(

Right, this is effectively a 1.5-2.5 year suspension.

Suspending him for part of "next season" would have been silly given the uncertainty of when that will be.

Wow. What should they have done? Given Bertuzzi's status as a superstar player and his importance to the Canucks playoff hopes, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that this is the most severe suspension in NHL history. It may be the most severe suspension for an on-field incident in North American sports history. He deserved big-time punishment, of course, but what did you want them to do? Shoot the guy?

Well, McSorley nominally got a more severe penalty. I agree with you this has more actual teeth, especially if you count playoffs as 10 times more important than a reg season game. This is an extremely severe penalty. Shooting him would be more severe I think.

I do wish Crawford had gotten a 2 game suspension for smirking, or at least was forced to put on a uniform and skate a shift next time they played the Avs.

The NHL had to give this punishment. I think it sends out a strong message to other players. I also think that Crawford should've at least been fined...

Yeah, that's exactly what I wanted. :rolleyes: They should have suspended Bertuzzi for a calendar year. This incident is an embarrasment to the entire sport and rivals the McSorely incident for the national exposure it has received. The NHL needed to set a precedent with this situation, and I believe that suspending a guy for the rest of the regular season and playoffs is not harsh enough of a penalty given the damage (both to Moore and the league overall) which Bertuzzi caused with his actions.