Yeah dude, using leverage to get a vote is what is fucking up the country. Not some Senator willing to fuck over 32 million people while his family kicks back in their mansions made by illegally price gouging life-saving medicine.

The company his daughter was the CEO of (Mylan) settled with the SEC and Justice Department in 2017 and 2019, then merged with another company, and no longer exists. She got a golden parachute and resigned last year. There’s not a whole lot to leverage there.

Always good to see the smartest guy in the room totally missing the point

Has the statute of limitations passed on criminal charges? If not, let's roll.

Woke up this morning wondering if the BLM protests are still going on in Portland. Didn't read anything other than some protesting in Pearl district because of Biden's immigration policies (?).

So is the BLM stuff done with or are there still protestors out in force?

Just so everyone knows, Biden is 100% responsible for higher gas prices and ruining everything that is 100% American that you know and love, like low gas prices, that are constitutionally guaranteed.

Biden is in a tough spot but don't disagree on his approach. SA is too important "right now" (need some more time for oil independence). Khashoggi was not a US citizen, was not a permanent resident, and the crime was not on US soil.

I don't think there's been any organized protesting affiliated with BLM for a few months.

Sell all your Cuomo stock.

NEW/BREAKING: @NYGovCuomo offers another statement on sex harassment allegations.

"I now understand that my interactions may have been insensitive or too personal and that some of my comments, given my position, made others feel in ways I never intended."

— Jesse McKinley (@jessemckinley) February 28, 2021

I guess he should've doubled down and said that all his accusers were too ugly for him to "assault". That would've been the "strong" reply.

It is so hard now a days to tell when someone is "done" or not, politically. I think Coumo is done.

‘Our system basically crashed like a computer:’ Jackson Public Works Dir. said progress made in restoring water to residents

This is as good a place to put this as any. Another American city's water system has been compromised.

For all the jokes over the last four years about "Infrastructure Week," we really actually have a desperate need for wartime-level infrastructure spending. It would have been great to have.

It's a lot cheaper (and more humane for those who care about such things) to update bridges, water systems, levees, electrical grids, etc. before they break than to fix them after they collapse.

It is amazing how these take down everyone (which they should) but Trump only because he uses the most Neanderthal response possible.

Or, Republican voters don't care.

I feel like the nursing home scandal should have ended his career.

Yeah it should have, especially as much grandstanding as he did, but this is the dagger.

I think he may have figured a way to weather one scandal or the other. I think it is both that dooms him.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/01/polit...tax/index.html

This won't even come close to closing the deficit much less paying for all the stimulus bills but the grownups in congress do need to start discussing how to pay for this whole mess.

The answer is a default by 2050+ when debt-to-GDP is an untenable 200%. The can will continue to be kicked down the road.

Guess Biden took a hit here but probably a minimal hit.

The only way it's ever being "paid off" is being able to cede parts of the world to China so Americans can spend $2-300 billion on the military instead of more than $700 billion per year and not have the global economy take a hit from not having the "World's Police" protecting the sea lanes. Until that's open for discussion along with the tax hikes and benefit cuts brought up by both sides, deficit talks are just a waste of time.

Biden has agreed to greatly speeding up the phase out for the 1400 dollar checks. Now the phase out for single filers goes from full at 75k to 0 at 80k and for joint filers, full at 150k to 0 at 160k.

I don't understand how Manchin thinks this is beneficial policy or politics.

I do not even understand the point of the phase out at all. They are arguing over less than half of 1% of the entire bill. Take the political win and kick the spending can down the line like everything else in this bill.

yaaas yaaas

Dems take some semblance of control and immediately it becomes time to worry about deficits. Straight from the playbook.

Also, a lot of the Dem gains came from suburban former GOPers who were freaked out by the Trump show.

It seems like taking checks away from couples making between $160k and $200k cuts right at your new allies.

Makes no sense to me.

Sounds like they are following the Dem roadmap to losing the mid terms.

Nail, meet head. Right or wrong, this'll get spun as a betrayal of those who switched parties to help Biden get elected. It mystifies me how a major political party can repeatedly display such awful political instincts.

I don't understand why the scale they had with the first bill, or even the second, needed to be changed. I do like that they added dependents over 16, but the trade off is terrible.

Not only are they changing the cutoff point, they are not taking into account the number of dependents to adjust the scale. A couple making $160k is much different than a family of 5 making $160k. And who's to say a couple making $200k isn't living check to check and needs the stimulus money? Or that they wouldn't put the money back into the economy, which is the overall goal, right?

Hold your broad brush there Bob Ross. I've been complaining about this country's fiscal irresponsibility since the Bush administration.

Not a fan of the change, but it also seems like every media outlet is saying "moderate Democrats" as opposed to just Manchin. Unfortunately it looks like it was a group of Senators and there were concerns about getting to 50. 50-50 in the Senate is annoying.

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He's trying to play the role of moderate Democrat that brings the two sides together for bipartisan legislation. In reality he's doing exactly what the GOP wants by taking popular legislation and watering it down to the point that public support will stsrt to turn.

It's how Dems lose.

Manchin I kind of understand. He represents a very very Red state. West Virginia went 39 points for Trump. Every county in the state voted for Trump. The progressive who tried to primary Manchin in 2018 won the 2020 nomination for Senate and lost by over 40 points. He's generally walking a tightrope on every single vote.

It's Sinema I don't get. Arizona is trending more and more blue by the second.

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Is it the whole party or just a few people who are forcing their hand. Is the worse political instinct to hold out for the people making 160-170 and delay relief during a pandemic?

I don't like the change, but I'm not sure there was a better choice given the situation.

Just read that the change will save 12 billion in a 1.9 trillion dollar bill. It isn't about the savings, i's about limiting who gets checks, which is just terrible politics.

I think Manchin is sincere(and I do think this is being led by Manchin) but I don't understand why he thinks this is the better bill. It doesn't save enough money to matter and it's going to piss off a lot of high propensity voters.

I think that it's just a very weird place for the moderate Dems to draw a line in the sand.

Let's say that you did this and you got some GOP votes in exchange (Romney, etc.). OK, maybe it is worth it to make the bill formally bipartisan. But I am hearing nothing about this bringing any GOP onto the bill.

Let's say that you really are a fiscally conservative Dem, and you say that you won't support the bill unless the price tag is < $1 trillion. OK, maybe it is worth it to save the government a trillion dollars. I might agree or disagree, but that's a real change you are fighting for.

Or let's say that it is something that no one will notice or care about. Some technical change to the rate at which the federal government will reimburse local fire departments to upgrade old equipment or something. OK. Then it's maybe a kind of a small potatoes change, but no one will notice or care.

Here, it just seems like the absolute worst of all worlds politically:

(1) Does not bring any GOP on board.
(2) Does not save any real money compared to the size of the bill.
(3) Is SUPER visible. Hell, I imagine that a distressing number of Americans think that the stimulus checks are the only thing in the bill.

I just don't understand the optics here at all.

I like and vote for Manchin, but I think he is being self serving to/for West Virginians vs all Americans. I think that's unfortunate and bad policy.

WV's average household income is less than $73K per year (3rd lowest in the nation and almost $25K lower than national average per Average Income by State, Median, Top & Percentiles [2020] - DQYDJ) so he isn't going to be stepping on a whole lot of toes by changing the terms here or get penalized by his voters. I don't like what he's doing and whoever runs against him from the GOP is still going to call him a communist or socialist. There are better battles to have than this one and I think this one is going to cost the party nationally.

This exactly. If it makes it feel more bipartisan and you pick up 5-10 GOP senators, I can at least understand. Manchin is still going to be tagged as a big spending, socialist, communist, Democrat Senator, that voted for this giant $1.9B bill, by whatever Republican runs against him. His best hope is that while the democrats are in power, they govern well and govern responsibly and demonstrate that government can be effective. If the country is humming along due to good governance (in contrast to the Trump years), everyone wins except the Republicans that want to show that government doesn't work and needs reduced/eliminated.

“Manchin, this is colossally bad for our Party. What in the name of Zeus’s BUTTHOLE are you thinking??? We ain’t got time for your foolishness. You need to get with the program, pal, or you’re never gonna get X, Y, and Z that you’ve always wanted for WV.”

It ain’t that hard. Manchin isn’t the only one allowed to strongarm.

Dude, it’s only $1.888 trillion now. They’ll never make it stick with that drop in price tag.

It has to be some sadomasochostic impulse to lose.

Like Democrats cleaned up in the suburbs and are now going to kick them out of getting a check.

The bills is popular with Republicans. Same with minimum wage. He isn't taking a moderate stance at all. Its just a far right one.

Shit, Trump was calling for $2k checks months ago.

what bills is popular with Republicans?

The stimulus for one.

60% of Republicans Support Biden's $1.9 Trillion Stimulus: Poll

The way I'm reading it is that there's nothing Manchin cares about enough that they can take. As long as he's been a Senator, whatever pet things he wants he's either already gotten or wasn't likely to get in a divided Senate anyway. This would work with a first-term Senator probably, but not likely here.

I am assuming that they (and we)are going to give this level of scrutiny to the worthiness of the other recipients of the benefits of the bill. If that is the case the bill should be signed by the next president.

There is still a slight republican advantage in registered voters here and a good chunk of them are hard to the far right. (35% red to 32% blue with 30% independent) and the independents generally lean slightly conservative, so she has to massage that group.

There is a lot of migration here from California and those Dems are generally very progressive and she won't lose them because they won't vote red, so she will continue to target indys and the republicans that crossed party lines because they were sick of vitriol of Trump and co.

It has served her well, so I doubt she changes. When she was in a house she also voted with republicans more than any other democrat with the exception of maybe 1. Not sure of her voting record in the Senate, but probably similar.

Fox and Friends has a complaint with Biden.

Happy (real) inauguration day!

Aren't we supposed to have some sort of alerts where one color means this and another color means that due to the threat to the Capitol?

Can't wait to see where QAnon moves the goalposts next....

I have a new phone with new notifications that I haven't bothered to shut off yet. I admit my stomach dropped a little just now when I heard one with a pretty dramatic "breaking news" notification sound. It was a, "duh duh duh....duh duh!" Don't worry though, it's just Italy blocking a vaccine shipment to Australia for some reason.

you know it's serious if Zeus's Butthole shows up in the thread

Siegfried from Siegfried and Roy died on January 13th. And the Washington Post web page gave it red banner breaking news status.

And it just really felt like we kind of all had a lot going on right then and outlets should have been a bit more judicious in the use of the Breaking News banner.

The last time I heard that dramatic alert sound (I think it was the BBC), it was Kim Kardashian divorcing Kanye.

:lol:

Listen, I don't wish ill or sadness on anyone, but the last time Kanye had a big breakup we got "808s and Heartbreak". So what I'm saying is... I can see an urgent news break for that :D

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But never again will we get this! (NSFW)

https://youtu.be/BBAtAM7vtgc

Unity! Bipartisanship!

Well that's better than "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it"

Since when?

Since the other thread is nonpolitical,

DeSantis denies influence over Keys vaccine distribution - South Florida Sun-Sentinel

Damn, I'm good.

[url="https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2021/3/4/us-debt-projected-to-ballon-to-more-than-double-gdp-by-2051"]

McConnell seems to be working with his state legislature to change Senate replacement laws in his state. How should Kentucky lawmakers replace US Senators? | whas11.com
Looks like he might be considering an out after he just got elected.

Not to brighten your day, but if current trends hold it'll be worse than that. Global oil demand will be far above supply by then, leading to worldwide depression that will drag us down with it. So we default sooner and the consequences are worse. Yay 'Murica!

Which actually would be the argument to spend the money on renewal resources and end dependence on oil totally. Green New Deal FTW!

Japan is well over 200% debt to GDP right now and they manage pretty well.

Exactly. The sooner we are off oil, the better.

The glee with which Sinema voted against the minimum wage increase is a bad look.

Democrats such but also some Republicans like the two Senators from Florida voted against the will of their people.

Eh, not really IMO. Relying 100% on renewables is not viable in the near future. There's a reason why no major nation in the world is close on that score. They are only a partial solution; the only realistic short-term path to cleaner energy is to invest a lot more into nuclear in order to get out of coal, etc.

But also, the US is in a better position with oil than most of the world is. It doesn't matter much if we get off of oil here - which we absolutely should do as soon as we can - while the rest of the world still needs it. We'll still sink with everyone else if that happens.

Just a horrible politician who is toast next election. It's not like she is from a state that is opposed to a higher minimum wage. They overwhelmingly supported raising it and have to I believe $12.

I don't know what the point of unsustainability is, but there is one at some point and obviously the further we get into debt, the more taxes have to go to servicing that debt which means the less that can go to the needs of the people, running the government, etc.

I'm frankly astonished at the number of modern nations who think massive budgetary debt, not just for short-term crises but the long-term, is actually a viable financial approach. It isn't.

The rates are so low that we are practically making money each time we borrow. Servicing the debt at our current rates is not a problem.

Interest rates won't always be low, however. And even when they are, I think $375 billion a year could be better spent than being flushed down the toilet. There's still a point at which it's not a feasible long-term strategy, no matter how low interest rates are.

Tax wealthy people at least at the same rate as the middle class and stop wasting a trillion here and there on planes that can't fly in the rain. Problem solved.

They should call Manchin's bluff and see if he wants to be the person who keeps $1400 checks out of the hands of his constituents.

Basically Democrats should stop negotiating because they are so bad at it.

They're just watering down the bill for no reason. It won't get a single Republican to vote for it. Leave it to the Democrats to take a bill with 75% approval and make it worse.

Getting all your members to vote in favor of something, without which it won't pass, is 'for no reason'?

Call their bluff and see if they will actually vote against it. Let Manchin explain to his constituents why they aren't getting $1400.

Warnock is the one that got screwed bad. Up for election in a year and just buried him on what he promised.

Anyways it does appear Manchin was dangerously close on going with the Republicans on unemployment insurance:

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...id-plan-473963

Even with pleading from Tester and Sinema he was seen talking with Portman and it took a personal call from Biden and a few concessions to win him over.

Though his playing both sides may have damaged his standing to do so in the future with the Republicans, so perhaps he will be tempered from playing these games going forward.

Remember it isn't just an up or down vote on the bill. The "Vote-a-Rama" is happening and any number of Amendments may be added.

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We are reducing our reliance on foreign oil. Although we produce a lot of it right now, we need the "heavy crude" from the middle-east. Approx 69% of total use is for "transportation" (I assume this means cars, trucks etc.) and 26% is industrial. With all the recent announcements by car companies, majority of our new cars will be electric/hybrid. So I am optimistic the US won't be needing much of foreign oil 2050.

Re: rest of world and oil demand/supply. Peak oil warnings were everywhere, it never happened because alternative methods were found (e.g. shale boom). I'm not convince that demand will outpace supply TBH as greed will find a way to get/extract more oil.

To me, the key problem is the debt-to-GDP. There is a point where it is unsustainable and credit ratings drop, less people to sell debt to, less to spend domestically etc. And with the emergence of China as an alternative to the US, not good at all. By 2060, census projects growth from 17% to 23% of all Americans will be over 65+. So obviously this will put more pressure on "entitlements".

I'm in favor of reducing military spending and entitlements. But there's no politician brave enough (or probably, can get elected) trying to champion both. The can gets kicked down the road.

I disagree. They have fallen far from their perch back in the 80s. Their ratio is about 240% now.

Approx. a third of our debt is owed to foreign governments. Japan's debt is primarily owned by domestically. Their replacement birth rate is low (and definitely not as accepting of immigrants). They are/going to be in a world of hurt IMO.

Open. The. Borders.

Our aging population and reduced birth rate is a huge problem with an easy solution: Open. The. Borders. Let lots and lots of young working age people come in and support me in my old age.

Open. The. Borders.

Open Borders: The Science and Ethics of Immigration

I agree. I think where some of us disagree here is to whom. I rather give priority preference to the highly educated. This is not to say don't open the borders south of the border (which is the focus of many here). I do think we need to increase guest worker program in addition to punishing the Demand side also.

That's true, but all that really did was kick the can down the road. Think about it logically. Regardless of where you think the end date is, oil is by definition a non-renewable resource. There is a limited amount of it. Shortages and rising prices will eventually push us into doing more offshore drilling etc. that we don't want to do now for environmental reasons, but that again just kicks the can further. Eventually you run out of ways to do that. Proven oil reserves have been on the decline for 15 years. We are consistently finding, I think the number is 10-15% of what we are using as a species, over an extended period. This is not sustainable.

Best estimates I am aware of is that the 'peak oil' crunch is likely to hit in 2030-2035. That's not that far off. We'll then push it further by whatever methods we have available, but there's only so much that can be done.

We are reducing our dependence, but we are decades behind where we'd need to be in order to be even remotely prepared. Same with the open-the-borders idea vis a vis immigration and our aging population. It's way too late to do enough of that to make a significant difference. If we were doing in the 1990s some of these things then yes, we could really move the needle. Now we're just rearranging the deck chairs, as it were. The only options left are dramatic and painful ones.

Googled on stats. There are about 1.1M foreign students which is about 6% of those in higher ed. Agree that in the short term, this won't make a dent in tax base but increasing the # and keeping them in the US (e.g. fast track to green card & citizenship) will definitely help in the long term.

And ... add in other foreigners that already have their degrees (or rich), give them fast track (assuming security concerns are taken care of) and we'll be that much better.

I can understand white Americans that are concerned about losing the American way, identity etc. whatever that means, but we can't discount those feelings. A possible compromise IMO is to continue the ratio, not to suddenly increase minority legal immigration disproportionately.

Bottom line. Per an older article, of those that want to immigrate, the vast, vast majority want to immigrate to the US (sorry Europe & Nordics). This is what I would consider a "strategic competitive advantage" and it's stupid for us to not leverage this somehow.

New York City has open borders with rural Mississippi. And I don't think that anyone would think that they are culturally identical.

The fear that open borders means cultural destruction is overblown/flat-out-incorrect.

also, opening the borders could mean less of "those people" choosing to live here.

Back before we tightened the border, we'd get a ton of seasonal workers from Mexico/Central America. They'd come here, harvest crops, make money, go back home, and then come back next harvest season. A lot of them have decided to stay b/c it is now so hard to get back in. A lot of "illegal" people who are living here now would love nothing more than the chance to leave for half the year and just come back to help goose our economy.

New York literally wouldn't exist as it does today without the "open borders" of the turn of the 19th and 20th century. Of course that is an argument against in most Red states.

What a load of horse shit, the fuck we can't.

These are people who only want white men in power. They want to hold back anyone who is a different color, race, religion, or who doesn't have the same values as them. They disguise it as losing the "American Way" but all they are doing is putting lipstick on a pig.

The last thing we should do is cater to the feelings of white nationalists.

Tell that to the Indians

Are we really equating immagration to the genocide of Native Americans? Are we? Because that is really daring, considering the culture that brought on that genocide is the very one the white supremacist are trying to defend with these ridiculous arguments.

CARES Act passes the Senate, with Amendments, 50-49. Sen Sullivan from Alaska missed the vote (lol). House is expected to approve.

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Someone going home for a family funeral is an lol? Good to have this issue behind us though, pretty safe assumption it gets signed into law fairly soon.

I could look this up, but I figure y'all know--how did the unemployment end up? How did the $1,400 cut off end up? Those were the major bones of contention.

unemployment wound up at an extra $300/month, but extended by a month. I think the $1400 phaseout was at $80k for individual earners and $160k for MFJ.

House will grumble but accept that.

So, the Dems managed to give Americans 1.9 trillion of relief over 100% GOP objection.

And the takeaway will be Sinema doing that weird dance when she voted against $15 minimum wage and the Dems gave fewer people checks than Trump did.

I support my party on policy. But, man, they cannot get out of their own way when it comes to optics.

Sinema wants to be the Manchin of the West. Who knows it may play in Arizona? Anyways with 50-50 and Manchin and Sinema wanting press, it didn't end up as bad as I feared.

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