your one in a million

there is sooo muh love in here!

I just got home from work and just playing post catch up at the moment. I'll be commenting as I go if I see anything worth noting, so bear with me. :)

Thanks for the levity. :)

There is just soooooooo much to read. I have noticed some still questioning Alan's intentions and I just don't understand that. The posts that do so are just wasting space and taking our attention away from finding the wolves.

I know Render is getting heated, and you're defending your wife, I get that, but all the bickering is doing is taking away from good analysis. If we're not focused on Telle, then give us someone to look at - with good reason. We can't look at Alan, so that has to be just dropped.

I think we're all getting frustrated, is that an understatement?

We need to have some kind of plan of action - we need to make suggestions on who the seers should watch tonight. I'm still catching up so I'll make a post in a bit as far as who I'd like to know about.

EF votes for you, not the other way around.

So, you did vote for BK who turned out to be a villager.

All of Telle's "posts" around the two posts I quoted - that's pretty obvious in the context of what I wrote.

Exactly.

Yeah 6 or 7 games is really a ton...

That's a stretch. Anyone can see from the post in question that I quote two of Telle's posts and then refer to all her comments around those two posts.

Check again.

You may want to look again. You voted for BK on day 2. Nice way to try to change history there. The more you post the more sure I am of this so thank you. I know I'll be the focus of olierage but I only have posts and votes to go on and both of those for you are coming up wolf.

Just to throw this out there:

CoT
alan t - forced to be there, I still think he is up to something self-serving though and would offer him up as a lynch target if we weren't getting our ass kicked and can't afford anymore losses
Telle - why would the wolves kill off Lathum is he was a fake seer and he cleared Telle if she was a wolf? We don't know for certain and neither do they
Pass - see reasons for Telle, though I really want to think he is a wolf for the principle of the thing


CoD
oliegirl -she kees vopting for villagers and her posts are screaming wolf to me
mccollins - we need to look into the PM thing a little more (granted this would really spoil my CoT if it does involve Telle)


Keep an eye on:
Mrs Schmidty - Something seems a little different from her last game where she was a star villager
Danny - can't get a read on but something seems off
SnDvls - OTR wolf?
Schmidty - OTR wolf? Could be RL getting in the way but he just seems to be very OTR
RendeR - always keep an eye on RendeR
LSG - seemed to be aligned with olierage early but has trying to put some distance between them lately, maybe a wolf ploy, I suspected more than two female wolves around the point when she was puching the one female wolf idea heavily, possibly to set us up to let our guard down when one is found

vote mccollins.

great guy, obvious wolf!

Wish I could live up to last game, but I was the snoop in that one - was much easier to help the team. Even with analysis in this game, there is about 4 pages of usefull info mixed in with 31 pages of emotional reactions and repeating of info.

We seem to get caught up on the obviously wrong (Questioning Alan's intentions - Wolf duke, or normal duke). We've lost a seer, fake or not, our spy and our BG. We need something, anything concrete, or at least I do, to go by. I don't want our other seer to reveal themself, but damn, it would be nice to know what they're seeing!

My suggestions for our seer tonight:
Render - Admittedly he over reacted to the heat on Telle - either he's just showing an abundance of good ol' fashioned "don't mess with my woman" or pershaps he's trying to pull heat off of a roled wolf (Telle is maybe the sorcerer?) and he'd rather the heat be on him? Would make sense for them to be on the same team. I haven't been on the Telle bandwagon, but maybe there is something to it.
Clap - I know he didn't want to die early, but he seems to be trying to be painfully quiet - like he wants to spill his guts but just can't.
Schmidty - where the hell is he? Seriously, is he always this quiet?

Those 3 jump to the top of my list that I would like checked out. Any thoughts?

As of post 1714:

3 Oliegirl: GoldenEagle (1643), Danny (1646), EagleFan (1689)
1GoldenEagle: Oliegirl (1647)
1 Passacaglia: LoneStarGirl (1697)
1 McCollins: Claphamsa (1713)

I'm not too worried about Render right now myself. If the real seer is alive, mccollins is someone who would interest me. Claphamsa, Danny and Sndvls also.

Partly RL (sleep) issues, and partly that I have absolutely nothing of value to add. This game seems like a crapshoot, and I don't want to screw things up even more by overanalyzing or coming up with crazy theories at this point, because, well, I want to live.

someone give me the short version of what happened after say...2pm today?

Coming up, give me a sec :)

People argue over whether or not Telle was cleared by Lathum being killed.

Goldeneagle votes Oliegirl, myself and Eaglefan do so as well later.

Oliegirl unleashed the Olierage and votes Goldeneagle.

Pass implies Telle is a mason, though most of us didn't see anything leading to whether that is true or not.

Lonestargirl votes Pass not understanding why the heat is off of him

Mccollins says PM instead of post when referring to Telle and has suspicion on him now

Everyone has a list of people they suspect could be wolves. Between all the players suspects, we have pretty much everyone except Alan included.

Probably sensing some frustration. Everyone is accusing just about everyone and we have virtually no objective evidence. On day one we felt strongly about Daddy and Lathum, day two Barkeep, day three Saldana. So far we have sucked.

Don't say we... :) I had no strong feelings on Lathum, BK or Telle (the initial run for day 3). Saldana would have been in my list of suspects though, just not as high as oliegirl.

wow, 35 pages and we're down 3 roles and 2 vanilla villagers and...well...we're basically at day 1 again.

*sigh*

I don't trust Alan, however he is the duke and everyone else basically is putting their faith in him. So I have a small CoT that I will continue to go with that is 3 people strong.

Alan, Telle, myself.

I wondering why Pass isn't getting the heat now as well. Alan are you cvouching for Passacaglia now or are you still protecting your super-secret-ninja knowledge?

Olie is definitely pinging the wolfdar.

I have no idea who to vote for at this point.

Placeholder vote for now, subject to change at any time for any valid reason:

VOTE OLIEGIRL

How are we basically at Day 1 again?

No, I'm not vouching for Pass. you can read my last post I made about my thoughts on Pass. I said that because Lathum did scan him, he doesn't seem like a logical lynch choice today at least barring further information.. but I don't think anyone should put him on their cleared list yet until we know for sure which seer Lathum was.

As for your other comments, I think I've just about had it from the name calling, the swearing and the insults that you and several others have been hurling at me all game. If it is just gamesmanship and you're really a wolf, then fine.. but you can find a better way to do it then that. It really doesn't make the game much fun for me when you or LSG or whomever come out with the various comments. If you're a wolf, I would think you could find a more clever way to reach the same goal. If you're really a villager, and still have absolutely no clue to what I was attempting to do on day 1 2 or 3.. even after I explained it.. then I'm not sure what else to say. Either way you all are making this game alot less fun than it should be right about now.

VOTE CLAPHAMSA

It's pretty obvious to me that mickey c just meant to say 'posts' there.

OK first off, I apologized a LONG freaking time ago for the name calling, get over it already. yer a big boy. Stop whining about day old bread.

You took a stand in this game to play the secret agent, not me or anyone else. YOU decided HOW you were going to play this, if you don;t like the feedback you are getting DUE to the way you choose to play, don't play that way. I honestly don;t much care how you rationalize the reasons for doing so, if you can't take the reaction, don't take the action.

I'm done apologizing for my attitude the first few days, I've done that and I'm not gonna sit here and get browbeat for someting thats done and finished. Stop bringing it up and get on with your game.

When you play a cloak and dagger game, wether its for good or Ill, you're going to have people on your case. In this situation you coupled the fact that you were being elusive about the whole Pass situation AND you were trying to lynch someone that more than one of us either knew or believed to be good, those two things together created a VERY suspicious picture of you and your continued following of that caused myself at least to get realy tired of the cloak and dagger games.

Stop complaining, accept the original apology as it was heartfelt when given and continue playing the game.

If you look at my posts its pretty obvious I have NOT read your reasonings since I asked for a quick recap and then went forward. I'm sorry if my poking fun at you is so dificult to handle, but I have not called you any names today that I can see.

I like this vote a lot...If I can't get a run on you Pass, I will follow with a vote on Claps. Wolves have been known to vote for fellow wolves when it looks like there is a runaway on somebody else.

Alant this is for a different thread at a different time. But EVERY game I play with you, you act like a know it all and it really bothers me. And i obviously am not the only one bothered by it... When you say you are doing something for the village but some of the villagers dont agree with your decision, expect words to be said. And it doesn't make the game very fun for me when people follow you or other 'pros' for no real reason... just because of who you are, and ignore the newer players even when they have valid points.

so pass and LSG are wolves? cant say im surprised!

If you think so, vote for one of us. Otherwise, cut the threats.

Lost my Internet connection all day Saturday, and I work most of the day tomorrow, so I'll try to do some catching up tomorrow night. Judging from this last page alone, I hope you guys don't all kill each other before I get back.

well ill move my vote later if it matters. but i thhink mcoolins is the wolfiest!

Just reading back through some posts and I need to pick this paragraph out.

Thi entire statement is wrong, every piece of it. Well except the getting heated part anyway.

I was not defending "my wife" I was defending a good villager and I wasn't the only one. lathum was too and he's been shown to be good.

I had tried to give you someone to focus on, Passacaglia, but everyone was following Alan's lead and focusing on telle instead, hence my defense of her.

Don't ever assume that because someone has shown a skill or power within the game that they are necessarily on our side. Don't ever "just drop it" when there is suspicious activity that isn't being explained by a player, good bad or otherwise.

If I listened to this part of your post I'd never manage to be on a winning side in a WW game. You simply cannot treat anyone as black and white, because its been shown in the past that players of Alan's calibur (hoops, sndvls, Passacaglia, lathum and Chief too) have the ability to play up the most innocuous point to make themselves trusted.

Anyway, enough fear mongering. I just wanted to point out that paragraph so you don't think that I at least actually listened to it. I think I've explained why no one should, but YMMV.

Just to reiterate, I do not defend telle due to our marital status, she's a damned fine player all by herself, better than I am in most respects because she's got a more even temper. Please don't insinuate that I would defend her on that basis, it would be unethical to do so in game and would be detrimental to the village as a whole if I did so.

That said, I did defend her in this situation for a couple reasons. One was lathum's scan. I trusted it at the time. I can't verify it obviously, but I don't see a reason to lynch someone with a positive scan on them until other options that appear much more suspicious get dealt with.

Secondly the reasons people gave to get the run on Telle started were totally innacurate. The logic was faulty. So there was no real validation for voting for her.

Ok, I think I'm as caught up as I can be at this point:

Alan, I see your explanation and I can understand it, I can only hope that you understand why its so hard for others to simply acept your word when you act like your hiding things from everyone. You created that entire situation by trying to play the coy game, it may have worked, it may not, but in the end I think it failed in general because you created more suspicion than you curtailed. For what its worth though, I see it for what it was and wish it had worked out better.

Clap: With all the flak flying around perhaps your humorous quips should be shelved for a while. I know it will kill your post whoring, but really, lets all just come back to the game itself and stick to what we can at least show some evidence of.

Pass: I don't know how you do it, but you always seem to sneak through the cracks when you're on the block. I still distrust you mightily.

ok, off for a bit. be well John Spartan.

If you distrust him so much, vote for him! I dont know why he is so under the radar and why people are picking on telle or olliegirl. (admittedly Olie is high on my wolf list right now, but I feel more strongly for Pass)

OK - I'm here for now, lost internet Friday and now it's coming in and out intermitently...we'll see how long it lasts.

I was really upset on Friday when I posted that about Alan's vote count and yes, I screwed up what I said...but the point I was making is the same. If you are going to call me out on my voting record, then you have to call out everyone who voted for DT, BK and Saldana.

And Mccollins, my point was that this isn't your first game. By the time you've played 6 or 7 games, you know the basics. Plus you play over on TSW, so I'm guessing your total number of games played is higher than 6 or 7.

My point isn't to ignore him completely, but considering he's the only person truly in the COT at this point, I think we should seriously look at someone else. I haven't voted for Telle at all because I haven't seen a reason to. Many people are in the same boat as me and are trying to discern things for themselves, not just vote according to Alan. While he offers some good analysis he also offers a lot fof fluff that I think people know they have to dig through.

As far as the comment in my last post about you "defending you wife," that was sarcasm. At that point I didn't think that's what you were actually doing so much, but it was begining to look suspicious. Just as you don't like how Alan has latched onto something and wouldn't let it go, it seemed like you had as well.

I think this horse is not only dead, but has half decomposed and is thoroughly beaten.

Onward and upward!

Wow is this the slowest day ever in WW history? I dont know if i have even voted yet, so I want to throw this out there

vote pass

There is something about Pass that still needs figuring out, He's certainly high on my list and I could very well change my vote tomorrow. Something is just...off about him this game.


Mrs. S: I indeed got a bit carried away in my emotional state Friday but thankfully calmer heads have emerged and I think everyone can move on tomorrow =)

I'm happy to answer any questions you have, if that helps you figure me out. It'll probably have to wait until I get to work tomorrow, though.

I am about to work from page 36 in this thread and I will apply to some posts from there. So, don't be confused if I talk about stuff that I happened even before the last lynch.

Just like in real life, I am procrastinator in WW as well.

Gee, thanks, wife. See if I take you to New York now.

How many people are you going to call retarded this game? If we really need your help, then why you don't step up and start giving valuable opinions instead of calling everyone retarded.

Thanks for the birthday wishes.... and the birthday vote.

I am not sure if this person trusts me or not. As far as the question goes right before the deadline, I really don't see what happened to make yo change your mind. But I think we should go a different direction now, getting away from telle for the time being.

I still thought you were going to stick with Telle to the end. But in my mind you are fairly clear because if your vote change to saldana. If you and Telle were wolves together, you would have left your vote on Telle to avoid suspicion since at that point, it was not really close.

See my post above. The question was about clearing you my original theory. My original theory had nothing to do with you and only involved Telle.

Do you really want a valuable piece of information thrown out into the open? You do if you are a wolf. This post makes very little sense and I think you are just spinning away.

What?

So pretty much anyone who brings any sort of heat on you, you think is a wolf?

But I thought you discovered some sort of PM mistake and that we (villagers) caught a break?

You are throwing as much crap against the wall as possible and hope some of it sticks.

I'm not sure how much time I'm going to have in the morning before work so I'll make my vote now.

VOTE PASSCAGLIA

I admit there's not a heck of a lot to go on. The wolves may very well just be sneaking by under the radar, but of those that are speaking up Pass is grabbing my vote tonight.

As of post 1752:

4 Oliegirl: GoldenEagle (1643), Danny (1646), EagleFan (1689), Render (1723),
2 Passacaglia: LoneStarGirl (1697), Mrs. Schmidty (1752)
1 GoldenEagle: Oliegirl (1647)
1 McCollins: Claphamsa (1713)
1 Claphamsa: Passacaglia (1726)

Just for future information's sake.

People who have guaranteed voted for villagers all three days:

PackerFanatic
mccollins
Mrs. Schmidty
oliegirl
Telle
Passacaglia

Guaranteed voted for villagers two of the three days:

claphamsa
SnDvls
Render
Danny

Only one villager vote:

LSG
GoldenEagle
Schmidty* (did not vote Day Two)
Chief Rum

No confirmed villager votes:

EagleFan

COT

Alan T

Note: the order in which names are arranged does not constitute a trust/distrust list for me. I simply went through the Day One votes one live player at a time and put them under the appropriate category.

***

I present the above just for information's sake, but I do find it interesting that some of our most talked about targets (i.e. mccollins, oliegirl, Telle and Pass--pareticularly the last three) are also some our most certain villager killers. Now to point any definitive finger at them, you would be ignoring that others may have benefited simply from their vote targets not being dead yet, and also the possibility (no, probability) that the wolves have likely been trying to work at least one wolf vote into their voting records. So it would be silly to take this as meaning anything. But it's another evidentiary point to consider.

I even consider it interesting that EF has managed to vote for three players now whom are all alive and uncleared. He is the only player to have managed that.

Food for thought anyway.

Why is Telle in your COT? Just a gut feeling? I gotta tell ya, she's pretty far from cleared in my mind. The logic that Lathum's death clears Telle is flawed for anyone who follows the breakdown (olie did a solid job of breaking it down a page or two back).

Pass is far from cleared as well (as you mention in this very quoted post, although I did not include it here), so I can't really give much credence right now to Mason talk from him with respect to olie.

The wolves may have known Lathum was the fake seer from a bad read on Telle--and killed him to get him out of the game before he could prove this further, and thus also continue to confuse the real seer, who likely also does not know if he/she is the real seer. Point being, Telle would be a wolf in that scenario--and Pass could be for the same reason. In fact, they could both be wolves.

I don't know who to vote for at all, and I'm afraid of getting yelled at like everyone else has been, so I'm stumped. This entire game has been a clusterfoook, and I know that I haven't done anything to help that fact.

I'm going to go with someone UTR for now:

Vote mccollins

Just quoting to show you I saw this after posting above. And if this is the case, I don't understand why you don't have Pass in COT.

Plus, I have said it before, I'll say it again. Barking up the suspicious Alan tree is a lost cause. You want us to put Alan back on the uncleared list, because an action alone is not a confirmation of innocence?

Okay, I can see that logic out of context. However, within this game, we have an established rule set that shows us the existence of the Duke. Alan has claimed this role from Day One, and even performed an action to prove it. No one has come out against this. Do you think there's a real Duke out there that has let this go on? The real Duke wouldn't even need to come out. He could just lynch Alan himself, and, tada, wolf dead.

But this hasn't happened. Ergo, Alan is definitely the Duke. Hell, I won't even discuss that.

So then these victory condition issues are set out. Except this is a drafted game with two sides, and two GMs who picked those sides. The rule set sets this out and clearly places the Duke under the villagers. There is no role mentioned among the wolves that would seem to have anything resembling similar powers. So, this proves to me that the Duke is on the side of the village and wins with the village.

Transitive theorem (IIRC) states (given, A=B and B=C) thus (A=C). The Duke a villager. Alan is the Duke. Alan is a villager.

Can his ideas be flawed? Heck yeah. Even Alan will admit that. Like you, I, too, don't like when he goes all secret agent on us, especially this far into a game like this, where we desperately need a wolf to start to turn this thing around. Sometimes I can why he does things, but sometimes he does go too undercover and expect us to make connections he is making, or trust him on faith. And we can't do that.

But he is a good guy, and your harping on him and hinting that he is not so clear doesn't make me suspect him, it makes me suspect you. What would wolves want us to do? Waste time killing villagers, of course. I don't see any good coming from doubting Alan's side or victory conditions, not right now, not without something a hell of a lot more than has happened so far.

Telle is not cleared just because Lathum scanned her. I already showed this. Pass is not cleared because Alan said nice things about him (which he himself said was no proof of innocence either). I am not cleared. You are not cleared.

So this arguing with/casting suspicions at anyone who votes Telle is not only not productive, it could very well be leading us away from a candidate who could prove Lathum was fake--or hint that he was real. And there is significant value in that right now.

Pass represents the same possibility, and he already has a couple votes, so that is where I am going with my vote (as I won't be around tomorrow, as usual). But this clearing of Telle, and this suspicion of Alan, is just crazy. We don't have the evidence to support either. And arguing for either without more information will only continually lead us down this circular path where we get nowhere while wolves pick us off one by one.

VOTE PASSACAGLIA

I misread the question! I didn't mean to hurt your or Olie's feelings, I promise

So do you think these are the people we need to look at? Because I sure do! We should limit the voting for 2 of them a day and focus on them, hopefully one of them will talk.

I think todays vote should be Pass VS Oliegirl

Just my 2 cents

So, 5th most posts in the thread isn't enough I guess.

CR, the paragraph that starts with my name confuses me. My only Mason talk was a hunch that RendeR and Telle are Masons. I'm not saying I'm a Mason -- revealing that is against the rules.

oliegirl's been pinging my radar pretty hard, and appears she has been for others too. So I'm going to go in that direction today.

VOTE OLIEGIRL

Not comfy with mickey c getting votes?

UNVOTE CLAPHAMSA
VOTE MCCOLLINS

Good point.

I just don't know who to vote for, so I'm going to stick with you for now.

:(

That looks bad on my part.

I am leaning toward oliegirl for my vote this round. I will be around to vote later though.

dola - I suck at voting, heh.

CHIEF: I am with you on the breakdown of most of what you posted in response to me above. I trust Telle at the most basic level because Lathum trusted her. Read his posts. He was a comfirmed villager, regardless of role. I get a good vibe from her also. Call it gut instinct, call it precognition if you want. I know she's good this game but I certainly don't expect people to just take my word.

Alan is pretty obviously the duke as you so plainly showed, its not his allegience that I keep suspecting so much as his motives, but after his explanations I think he was just being WAY too cloak n dagger and it blew up in his face.

Any CoT has to start somewhere, for me I'm confident that I have a good starting point with Telle and Alan and myself of course. Again there is nothing concrete beyond Lathum's faith in Telle prior to his death and my own belief that she is on the villager's side in this one.

Just clarifying my position a bit.

I'm on Oliegirl now, but I certainly see the case for both Pass and McCollins as well and I do love a three horse race. Let's see how this all falls out.

Cool. So you trust me equally, right? After all, Alan is a confirmed villager, and he trusts me.

I think I know what you mean. Sometimes I'll feel like I've played a great villager game, until I realize that I never had any clue who the wolves are.

Just because I'm not posting or really participating at all in the discussion anymore means that you should put words in my mouth. I'm not dead yet. Not sure where the below posts indicate that I trust you.

I didn't mean to say you were vouching for me -- I just feel like we've been on the same wavelength most of the game. I was going based on your actions yesterday -- I didn't see anything super-secret about it, I just thought that you saw where I was coming from then when you said you weren't planning to vote for me.

My intent was simply to draw a comparison between Lathum's trust for Telle, and your trust for me. Lathum scanned Telle, but he didn't know if he was the real seer or not, so any trust he had was based on his own thoughts -- note that RendeR argues that Lathum was "a confirmed villager, regardless of role." By the same token, you're a confirmed villager (or at least in RendeR's COT), and you seemed to have some trust for me (at least you did on Friday -- if something has changed since then, please let me know).

My post was kind of tongue-in-cheek, because a) I don't really expect RendeR to change his mind about me, and b) I think RendeR just threw up a bunch of crap to cover up that he and Telle are Masons.

Okay, I have to ask because it is bugging the hell outta me - what does CoT and CoD stand for?

Circle of trust and Circle of distrust

Yeah, sorry about that.

I feel certain that oliegirl and mccollins are wolves. I doubt that I am going to move my vote as I have been leaning towards her for several days but would consider a move to mccollins if that ends up being where we head (he was/is getting my vote tomorrow as I am not as forgiving about the PM mistake, much like oliegirl's vote mistake).

Either way I feel like we are finally getting a wolf. Maybe these next two days will get us back in the game.

I will try to get back online a little closer ot the deadline (if possible) but I am not certain with everything going on at work.

I think some wolves need to start posting in hoops' thread to gloat a bit... Come on, you know you want to... ;)

I thought the same about you and me. After a slightly odd day 1, you've seemed like your normal investigative villager self.

I don't know that LSG was trying to move the vote away from me any more than she was indicating the two she has more suspicions about.

I hope you're not sitting out in protest or anything. We all need to work together here...

Don't be silly. nothing for me to protest here. It's just a game.

Ahhh, makes sense! Thanks :)

I count five votes for olie, actually. PF's makes it 6.

PF, any thoughts on your vote? Does the fact that your vote has given her a three vote lead make you feel less comfortable about it?

Not trying to be challenging, it's just that you voted with no reasoning given, and that made me go back and glance at the vote count. Since it makes me safer, I like the vote, but the fact that we're starting to look at a runaway on a day like today seems strange.

UNVOTE GOLDENEAGLE
VOTE MCCOLLINS

Off work now and around until deadling, may be in and out though.

I guess I missed a couple of olie votes in there - I didn't want to make it too much of a runaway, but I am just a little unnerved by some of her actions as of late. I haven't seen much from mccollins to push me one way or the other...

She will probably end up being a villager though, knowing my voting record this game, heh.

You are right, and then your head will be on the chopping block for voting for another villager...voting me off will accomplish nothing for the village, except put them at even more of a disadvantage.

LOL if we all used that logic you'd be lynched yourself my darling. ;)

That's some very wolfish logic there. Why would they kill off Lathum if he was clearing wolves? That would be a pretty bad move IMHO. Especially if he is/was the fake seer as keeping him alive and clearing wolves could bring the real seer out in the open.

That no reason vote may be returning, but with a reason, if the wolfish logic keeps appearing in your posts.

It's not wolfish logic on Chief's part at all, it's great analysis - and pretty much word for word what I was saying all day Friday. A lot of people jumped to the conclusion that Lathum's nightkill cleared Telle, but I disagreed and now Chief does too.

Vote Passacaglia

this is where I've been leaning and I still believe it will help the other seer to know if they are the "real" seer or not.

Jusgt a quick run down of the players and my take so far (subject to change with today's results):

1. PackerFanatic - hard to read, UTR wolfish vibe though
2. oliegirl - pinging wolf big time
3. Lathum - killed night 3, seer
4. Mrs. Schmidty - still getting a wolf vibe, but not certain
5. LoneStarGirl - either her or oliegirl I believe but oliegirl is the one pinging so she stays clear to me so far (unless we find that oliegirl is good)
6. Passacaglia - no reason to doubt (though I really want to say he is a wolf just because)
7. mccollins - slight wolf ping, I think that slip was not an innocent slip and will be getting my vote tomorrow
8. claphamsa - no read one way or the other
9. DaddyTorgo - killed night 2, bodyguard
10. Alan T - forced into CoT, no doubt of him
11. Chief Rum - starting to ping
12. Danny - no idea
13. Barkeep49 - lynched day 2, spy
14. SnDvls - UTR wolf?
15. saldana - lynched day 3, vanilla villager
16. Schmidty - no idea, very UTR but not pinging as a wolf
17. KWhit - killed night 1, vanilla villager
18. RendeR - hard read, I always read him as a wolf so I have no current idea
19. EagleFan - CoT :D
20. Telle - close to CoT, I can't see why the wolves would kill Lathum if they thought he was fake and clearing wolves which means his read on her was correct (either because he was real or by chance)
21. GoldenEagle - no pinging yet

Why would you kill Lathum if he is clearing your fellow wolves? If he continues to clear, especially when you eliminate the BG and the spy, it almost forces the real seer to reveal at some point or to keep his or her good information to themselves and not help the village.

So you would rather us lynch Telle or Pass. If we do that when they turn up good it's you and CR as the next to go but I guess you are trying to play the odds thinking that by then you will have enough of a lead that you can sacrifice yourselves?


And all this with mccollins as a possible target. Something tells me that he is being protected here and may be the cunning. Draw the heat elsewhere in an attempt to confuse us hoping that by the time we get to you and your furry friends that you have gained enough ground that we cannot swing it in our favor.

You really don't get the logic that the wolves would Fake Seer Lathum to throw the "real" seer off, thinking that Lathum's scan of Telle was correct, thus making our real seer think that they are the fake seer??? I don't see how you could not get that, and think that the wolves would come up with that plan. It's brilliant. It eliminates a very good player in Lathum, leaves the village spinning it's wheels on who the "real" seer is, and leaves the real seer in total confusion. Kills 3 birds with one stone essentially.

And if that is in fact what they did, then their plan worked, b/c we've spent the last 2 days (not counting weekend) bickering about whether or not Lathum's killing cleared Telle.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Not when they have elimitate the spy and the body guard. It would serve them better to allow for fake scans and draw out the real seer. Why should they get cute when they are off to as good of a start as this? If the BG and spy were still in play maybe they go that route. With them out of the picture it makes NO sense to go that route.

It makes more sense for them to try to claim theories like this.


:rant: :rant:
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I am not a wolf! You are basing all of this on the "fact" that I am a wolf, but I'm not...so what happens when you kill me and I come back villager. Then you are back at the same place you started today. Kill McCollins today, you just said you think he might be the cunning wolf. Then if he comes back good, fine, kill me and/or pass...but if he comes back wolf, we've made progress. Why spend another day in limbo when you yourself said you think he's a wolf???? I don't get that. Killing me proves nothing...absolutely nothing. If I've been scanned, the results haven't been obviously posted, so you won't prove or negate the true seer, I am not one to move votes around so you don't have a bunch of crazy switches to analyze. I get why I am pinging wolf, but I swear I'm a villager.

Because if they did what I think they did, killing Lathum puts them in an even better position, which is what they want. That is what I am saying, if they did this then we are playing right into their hands and helping them win the game. We are down to what, 11 villagers...you lynch me tonight you are down to 10, they kill someone tonight, down to 9...that means they could achieve victory in 2 days. And that is assuming they don't have some sort of power for a double kill or something.